Geocide In A Fit. Wants To Come Back

[+Pork King]

It's just a game--forgive and forget.

I'm kinda starting to get annoyed when I hear this now...

 

Monopoly or checkers is "just a game"...

 

Geocaching is a hobby that I have spent hundreds of dollars on and much time, both doing the activity and recuperating from it!

 

People who participate in this [hobby, sport, addiction, whatever] shouldn't have to deal with things like that after investing so much time/money into it...it definitely makes it much less fun. I personally use geocaching.com and geocaching.com only to find/hide caches, but there are several more sites out there that the abuser would be able to go to play the game if banned from gc.com to protect its users. I think it is TPTB's (of ANY website) duty to stop this kind of stuff (harrassment, etc) to its users, some PAYING users, or doubly so if it is happening to the admins.

[+LaPaglia]

Short and simple "if you quit you quit".

 

Long answer, no dont let them back.

[+Bahamadiver]

I have done plenty a stupid thing before, without forgiveness and correction, we'd all be dead. I say give them a 2nd chance with a probationary period, if it happens again, let em go. One reason is that they could take a real negative stand and go after cache's and cause general bad issues for the locals.

[+gpsjeep]

I do beleive in forgiveness. But to forgive is to forget. Or at least not to bring it up again.

Example; Oh, sure I forgive you. But I'm still angry and eill never forget the way you acted.

The example above is not the act of forgiveness.

 

You can still give this person in question a second chance without forgiving him/her. But if they screw up again then that should be the end of the road for them as far as geocaching goes.

But then again, I don't really know the extent of their misbehavior or the extent of the language they used.

-Jeff

[+sbell111]

Someone suggested letting him/her back without the ability to email from the site. If the ability to do this exists, that would be my recommendation as well.

 

I'm not in favor of not letting him/her back at all because that could make it open season on the caches in his/her area.

[+Moose Mob]

After skimming through this thread, it's tough to make a solid set of criteria that would establish a yes or no or just where to draw the line in between. All the factors discussed in this discussion would need to be weighed against the individual and just what they did to deserve being banned.

 

Good luck Jeremy, you have a tough task at hand.

[ju66l3r]

I'm not in favor of not letting him/her back at all because that could make it open season on the caches in his/her area.

That's absurd. They could log in at a friend's house, local library, work, and many other places that would change their IP enough to let them see caches again. If the area caches were to be at risk from this person, they'd be at risk regardless of whether the person was unbanned or not.

 

The same is true for continuation of the system abuse that got them banned in the first place. If the person were really nuts, then they would have used one of these other options, created a new user, and gone to town until ban. More than likely something set them off and they acted stupidly. Letting them back only takes the risk that they might be set off again. Since they are desperate enough to ask to be let back in, they are likely repentant enough to really value a second chance (with no third chance in sight) so as to change their behavior. If not, a second shut of the door ends the problem as well as it did before.

 

I hope that those advocating that the person be kept banished are never perceived to fall outside of the bounds by the administrators of this site. Otherwise, your hundreds and hundreds of precious dollars that you spend for this hobby might have to settle for finding the same 3 caches at navicache over and over again if you got your way and it were to come back to haunt you. Sometimes stupidity gets the best of us and to be given a chance to redeem yourself is a valuable learning tool.

[+deimos444]

Ok. I'll add to it. What if the person repeatedly harrassed you through the site's email system, and continued directly after they obtained your email address? Used foul language and called you some really awful things?

 

(clarification: I wasn't harrassed. My armor is pretty flame resistant at this point. I'm talking about you getting harrassed)

My personal opinion is that the person who attacked should admit the attact, apologise and explain the reason for this behavior and then the readmittance can be followed by the general community and there shoud be zero tolerance for any subsequent hostility.

It seems to me there are lots of folks out there with a sarcastic or ironic bent and this is great.

But, unfortunately, lines must be drawn to disallow the 1%ers from harassing vulnerable people.

[+El Diablo]

Short and simple "if you quit you quit".

 

Long answer, no dont let them back.

That's pretty harsh. We have all done things that we regret, we've all made mistakes. If you or anyone wasn't forgiven or given a second chance sometime (probably many times) in your life, where would you be now? Or lets look at it another way. Has there ever been a time in your life that you weren't forgiven or given a second chance that cost you dearly?

 

My tag line says...Everything you do in life will impact someone, for better, or for worse. Will letting this person back in impact lives for the better, such as they become a outstanding cacher and help support the game? Or will it be for the worse, such as they give the game a bad name? None of us really know.

 

How many alcoholics and drug addicts were reformed when they realized their mistakes and the harm they were causing other people? How many times have you or anyone else reading this said something to someone that hurt them, and later wish you could take it back?

 

Before anyone in here starts throwing stones you need to take a good look at yourself and your past.

 

El Diablo

[+sbell111]

That's absurd. They could log in at a friend's house, local library, work, and many other places that would change their IP enough to let them see caches again. If the area caches were to be at risk from this person, they'd be at risk regardless of whether the person was unbanned or not.

...

You actually make my point perfectly. There are many ways for a banned person to get cache info. Banning them without any possibility of reinstatement would leave them with little reason not to turn into a cache maggot. Allowing the possibility of returning to the fold may ameliorate the odds.

[+webscouter.]

When I was young I had to put a quarter in a jar every time I got angry. Maybe you can have the geocider give a geocoin to everyone he or she offends. The more offenses the more it will cost him or her.

 

In all seriousness, depending on the severity of the first geocide I would probably allow one return. If it was particularly nasty, go away and don't come back.

[+Byron & Anne]

I agree that it would be pretty easy to find places to get cache information. Therefore I'm making an assumption that when somebody goes to Jeremy to ask to be let back in they're eating a lot of humble pie. When a person goes into a brick and mortor store and causes a ruckus they are removed. If they continue to come back a restraining order can imposed, etc.

 

So what I suggest that Jeremy use 3 strikes and you're out policy. Another thought to also create a document that promisses good behavior and require a signature on said document and the understanding that banning will happen under such and such circumstances.

 

JMHO.

 

Byron

[ju66l3r]

You actually make my point perfectly.

Then I must have misunderstood your post. It seemed that you were advocating they not come back. Ok.

[+Kealia]

Tough call. I think the consensus is that it's going to need to be handled on a case by case basis.

 

My thoughts:

1) If it was a geo-cide only, a second chance could be in order

2) I'm not wild about the harrassments and threats through email (or any manner for that manner) - without knowing specifics I'll decline to comment

 

I've had a few heated battles here (and via email) with people but it never escalated to threats. Maybe a few childnish names being called, etc. but nothing more than that.

 

As I think it out, I think it takes a predisposition to resort to threats......maybe I am leaning one way.

 

Stupid brain; let me think some more.....

[Jeremy]

Thanks to everyone who replied. We currently go on a case by case basis but occasionally it is nice to see what others think about one situation or another. I wasn't exactly looking to make a judgement call on the specific situation but to see what your take was on giving others a second chance.

Edited July 8, 2005 by Jeremy

[+WeightMan]

As a former middle school teacher, I recall being asked many many many times for "one more chance" to show that the offender can behave in a proper manner. In most cases they had been given mulitiple chances to improve the offending behavior. I don't remember very many cases where the extra chance really changed behavior.

 

That being said, on a case by case basis, forgiveness would be nice. As Team MisGuided said, first thing is a public apology. If the person in question is truly repentant, I would be inclined to allow another chance with the understanding that there would be no more. Too many people think that there is always another chance to avoid punishment and, believe me, that is what they want, not the second chance to do right.

 

One question about this situation. Is this really a geocide or is it a banning due to the harassment? If it is a geocide and not a banning, then I would be more inclined to allow the person back in under conditions. If it is a banning then I would probably be less inclined to do so.

[+caderoux]

It all depends on the crime and the punishment. If they quit, that's different from being banned, too. Did they threaten to quit as part of their misbehavoir and then were banned? - that doesn't count as quitting.

 

If they harrassed someone, were they forced to make amends - apology, compensation, or what?

 

I think people who commit a crime and paid their penalty can be allowed to continue. Obviously the penalty on subsequent offenses should be higher and at some point, there would be a lifetime ban or whatever. If the offense is severe enough, then a lifetime ban without parole may be a suitable punishment.

 

It's not going to stop them caching, but they won't get to use the #1 service - that's a punishment, but there may need to be some compensation to the people they may hurt.

[+carleenp]

I don't know about a public apology. That seems like putting a person up for public stoning. But I think requiring a personal/private apology to the person/people harrassed, along with assurances that they will behave, is a good idea. That could help let the victim of the harrassment be put more at ease.

Edited July 8, 2005 by carleenp

[+ZoomZoom]

I know one fella who shouldn't be let back in as he's proven time after time that he will not change his ways. He has multiple sockpuppet accounts on various sites and his words are never true, seems he would rather stir the pot and start sensless arguments and whatnot. I say better be picky about who you let back in.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I am a firm believer in "Screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me!"

 

I will give most anyone one chance, very few get two!

Ed

[+LaPaglia]

Short and simple "if you quit you quit".

 

Long answer, no don't let them back.

That's pretty harsh. We have all done things that we regret, we've all made mistakes. If you or anyone wasn't forgiven or given a second chance sometime (probably many times) in your life, where would you be now? Or lets look at it another way. Has there ever been a time in your life that you weren't forgiven or given a second chance that cost you dearly?

 

My tag line says...Everything you do in life will impact someone, for better, or for worse. Will letting this person back in impact lives for the better, such as they become a outstanding cacher and help support the game? Or will it be for the worse, such as they give the game a bad name? None of us really know.

 

How many alcoholics and drug addicts were reformed when they realized their mistakes and the harm they were causing other people? How many times have you or anyone else reading this said something to someone that hurt them, and later wish you could take it back?

 

Before anyone in here starts throwing stones you need to take a good look at yourself and your past.

 

El Diablo

I'm sorry, I was asked for my opinion. I didn't know we were going to get a chance to tear each others thoughts apart.

I was asked what I thought as were we all. I wasn't asked to give comments on what others thought. You don't like my answers? Tough Nuts. These are MY opinions and I am allowed them. Thats the Fact, Jack! You want to tell me they are wrong or harsh or not to your liking then start another thread or send me a PM. I was only doing what the OP asked for. I don't remember him asking me to explain why I thought someone else's opinion was not up to my standards. If memory serves me correctly you have forgiven and it came back to bite you in the butt or should we not talk about that since its a perfect example when forgiving and forgetting does not work?

 

Either way you want a piece of me do it in a PM or another topic.

[+sbell111]

Sooooo...

 

What does everybody think (except for LaP)?

Edited July 8, 2005 by sbell111

[Jeremy]

Well I received plenty of input, so I'm closing this thread. Thanks for everyone's contribution.