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Geocaching And The Bombings In London


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A neighbor told me she heard on the news today that the people responsible for the bombings in London this morning may have been communicating through Geocaching or sending waypoints through the system. I don't believe it since I doubt the Government would have been able to find this out as quick as that. Just wondering if anyone heard anything about it?

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I didn't know Geocaching was allowed inside subway tunnels. I didn't even know you could get accurate coordinates there.

 

That's a very STUPID rumor. :unsure: Just like the rumor about someone who "rode the rubble" and survived the fall from the World Trade Center after the 9/11 attacks.

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A neighbor told me she heard on the news today that the people responsible for the bombings in London this morning may have been communicating through Geocaching or sending waypoints through the system. I don't believe it since I doubt the Government would have been able to find this out as quick as that. Just wondering if anyone heard anything about it?

I totally believe it. There is so much evil going on at the top of this organization that it has to be linked to global terrorism.

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I didn't know Geocaching was allowed inside subway tunnels. I didn't even know you could get accurate coordinates there.

 

That's a very STUPID rumor.  :unsure:  Just like the rumor about someone who "rode the rubble" and survived the fall from the World Trade Center after the 9/11 attacks.

Yes, a ridiculous idea.

 

I was in London last week chaperoning over 30 students. I took a group to the British Museum and used Russell Square Station, then used King's Cross later for the British Library, both sites for today's bombings. What a difference a week makes :blink:.

 

It's very difficult to get a GPS reading many places in central London with the exception of some parks where many of the caches are (Kensington, Hyde, and Regents). Often, other caches in the area (like the popular St. Etheldreda's) are pinpointed on the cache page or exist as virtuals. Getting a reading in the Tube (Underground) would be impossible or at least highly inconsistent. Due to my responsibility as chaperone, I didn't get to do any caching until later in the trip in the Edinburgh are.

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So, um...Were any paedophiles harmed in the bombings?

 

Just gotta know. :huh::unsure:

I am a UK admin/reviewer/moderator and I've been touched by the many messages that have been left in the UK forum. On behalf of UK cachers I would like to thank everyone who has posted there. My own son was at King's Cross at the time of the bombs and fortunately was only inconvenienced by being stuck in traffic for 4 hours. I can empathise with those who were less fortunate.

 

I don't know whether the OP was a serious suggestion or a sick joke. I am surprised and disappointed by it though.

 

As I type this the morning rush hour is well under way, the busses are running almost normally, most mainline and tube trains are operating and millions of Londoners are returning to work. This is the correct response to those "people" who try to destroy our way of life - to carry on as normal.

 

I can assure you that the London caches will continue to be popular, events planned for this weekend will take place and I will continue to list new caches in London. :blink:

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I don't know whether the OP was a serious suggestion or a sick joke. I am surprised and disappointed by it though.

 

I can assure you that me neighbor did tell me this. It certainly was not my intention to cause any trouble here. I simply thought that someone may have heard something about this. As I said, seems totally unlikely to me....

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OKay, I know this is a serious situation and tragedy, but lighten up on this guy! He heard a rumor from a neighbor, was concerned that folks might be thinking there was a connection between Geocaching, GPSr use, and terrorism. He posted it here to see if anyone else had heard any similar outlandish rumors, which gets us all prepared when one of our more gullible friends or neighbors comes to us with the same crazy idea. I sincerely doubt he was trying to make a sick joke, or stir up controversy.

 

That said, I can't believe that any credible news source would link a game like Geocaching to terrorist attacks. They may have used GPSr to scout out their attacks, and exchanged those coordinates for someone else to place bombs. If the reporter mentioned Geocaching, it was probably more of a comparative than connective, but it's still irresponsible if they were even mentioned together.

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I don't know whether the OP was a serious suggestion or a sick joke. I am surprised and disappointed by it though.

 

I can assure you that me neighbor did tell me this. It certainly was not my intention to cause any trouble here. I simply thought that someone may have heard something about this. As I said, seems totally unlikely to me....

Ok A dead drop is used by spies and I'm sure terrorist agencies if the need arises. They don't however make the location known to the world. I'm sure you heard a yarn full of hot air. A geocache is probably the most insecure way of communications that could exist short of using a PA on a busy street to announc your next terrorist planning session.

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This thread does more than anything to help spread the rumor.

Please tell me you're not serious. I haven't seen one remark in this thread that would suggest anyone is actually believing this (this ain't Court TV, folks!).

 

In any terrible tragedy, as this most certainly was, unsubstantiated the theories will always start flying. People will understand this rumor for what it is...nothing more than a rumor.

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Stop - this is beyond stupid. Next we'll see the terrorists linked to using other such high tech gadgets as Maps or Phones or Cars, or shoes or boots. Pens, pencils and paper anyone?

 

When they whip out the Nukes, now we have a story.

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A neighbor told me she heard on the news today that the people responsible for the bombings in London this morning may have been communicating through Geocaching or sending waypoints through the system. I don't believe it since I doubt the Government would have been able to find this out as quick as that. Just wondering if anyone heard anything about it?

I totally believe it. There is so much evil going on at the top of this organization that it has to be linked to global terrorism.

Holy bannination batman!

 

You are a key example of how natural selection isn't done with human beings yet. Say hi to the CTV folks for me.

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If I heard something like that, my first thought would be, why would anyone even use a GPS to plant a bomb in a well known train station? And certainly they'd have no reason to use one to plant it on a bus. As of this morning the evidence pointed to timed detonations, not suicide bombers who *might* use a GPS on a bus if they wanted to detonate in front of a particular location, but even that is dubious in my mind. Stations are well marked and named on maps, there's no reason I can think of to need, or even bother with, a GPS. In fact even if it worked, as others suggested it might not, it would only draw attention to yourself.

 

Yes, for something like the 9-11 plane hijacks, a GPS makes sense to make sure you're on course. But not for the london bombings.

 

Even if this was heard on the "news", obviously the reporter wasn't thinking.

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It could be possible that the neighbor just heard the word "cache" and misapplied it. For example: A statement theorizing that a cache of explosives were placed on the trains and bus and detonated by cell phone. Such a statement would not mean "geocache" but I suppose it could be misinterpreted if someone was not listening well or was challenged in their use and understanding of vocabulary.

Edited by carleenp
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Holy bannination batman!

 

Does Jeremy have a hotline to the Commissioner? B) Instead of the batsignal, the GC symbol will flash in the night sky... B)

 

Just when you think you've heard it all.... GC is the root of all evil.. :anibad::laughing:

 

B)

 

The bombings ruined enough lives and exposed once again, the cowardice of certain factions. Let's not add to the hysteria and propaganda by conspiracy ingnorance. My family's prayers are with all those devestated by such an event..

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It could be possible that the neighbor just heard the word "cache" and misapplied it. For example: A statement theorizing that a cache of explosives were placed on the trains and bus and detonated by cell phone. Such a statement would not mean "geocache" but I suppose it could be misinterpreted if someone was not listening well or was challenged in their use and understanding of vocabulary.

that's a very good thought. Thanks for offering a different and definately plausible theory.

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Ok A dead drop is used by spies and I'm sure terrorist agencies if the need arises.  They don't however make the location known to the world.  I'm sure you heard a yarn full of hot air.  A geocache is probably the most insecure way of communications that could exist short of using a PA on a busy street to announc your next terrorist planning session.

I disagree. The OP said used to communicate. Geocaches would be a terrific backchannel for covert communication. It provides a cover story ... "I'm geocaching" ...

 

2 parties could agree on a list of caches or even a PQ.

 

Party 1 leaves an encrypted note in the back of logbook 1

Party 2 retreives (taking log page too) and acts on info ... leaves reply in next cache on list

repeat as needed till the cache list is depleted.

 

The protocol would have to have a signaling mechanism for noting when a message is waiting and would need to cover missing/archived caches from the list, but it otherwise is a legitimate dead drop, you have an excuse for being there and if you pick remote locations, identifying surveillance would be easier than a public dead drop.

 

I'm not saying the rumor is true, I hadn't heard it till I saw this thread, but it seems perfectly plausible to me.

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your proposed method is still way too insecure. It would be smarter just to agree to leave your message two lightpoles away.

You could do that or use some other offset, but you'd still be using geocaching as your source for points ... a true dead drop might have advantages, but a cover story isn't one of them. As for secure, if the messages are short and encrypted the only real risk is that someone else would intercept the ciphertext.

 

The big downside is that if the channel is discovered, surviellance can use the same cover story ... just some goecachers out for a walk.

 

I'm just saying it's not as far fetched as all the "that's preposterous" posts above.

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Seriously, this type of communication makes no sense. Logging into a single throwaway email account and communicating through coded messages is still much, much more secure.

But it leaves a trail through potentially every mail server that handles the mail ... and the traffic analysis provides at least as much info as the message themselves. That's been our intelligence problem for the last two decades, we've concentrated on signals instead of meatspace ...

 

For some things meatspace is hard to beat ... in this instance the message only exists until picked up, then it is burned, eaten, whatever ... the ciphertext destroyed.

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Seriously, this type of communication makes no sense.  Logging into a single throwaway email account and communicating through coded messages is still much, much more secure.

But it leaves a trail through potentially every mail server that handles the mail ...

That's actually why I suggested a single account.

 

I write a coded message and save it in my 'draft' folder. You sign into the same account and read the message. The message travels through cyberspace, but not through multiple email servers. The message is carefully coded so no one would know what it means, even if it were intercepted.

 

Its just an innocuous email that hasn't even been sent, yet.

Edited by sbell111
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Seriously, this type of communication makes no sense.  Logging into a single throwaway email account and communicating through coded messages is still much, much more secure.

But it leaves a trail through potentially every mail server that handles the mail ...

That's actually why I suggested a single account.

 

I write a coded message and save it in my 'draft' folder. You sign into the same account and read the message. The message travels through cyberspace, but not through multiple email servers. The message is carefully coded so no one would know what it meens, even if it were intercepted.

And that's probably done over great distances with great effectiveness, but for intracell communication in a limited geography why leave any footprints at all?

 

Again, this is all conjecture and rumor, I was just playing devil's advocate that it's not as far fetched or unreasonable as many folks posted earlier.

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your proposed method is still way too insecure. It would be smarter just to agree to leave your message two lightpoles away.

That's the crux of the problem. Any cache at any time can be muggled. It's not as secure as it would need to be. Coordination and secure communications is important in any kind of covert operation be it, our own spies, or terrorists.

 

Of course even if they did use geocaches as a means of communication it doesn't change that it's the terrorists hell bend on destruction that are the problem and not the caches, library computer, or phone system that they happen to use.

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Again, this is all conjecture and rumor, I was just playing devil's advocate that it's not as far fetched or unreasonable as many folks posted earlier.

Perhaps. We do live in a world where people cross the country in lawn mowers and golf carts, so almost anything is possible. But in this instance it seems overly complicated. The conspiracy theorists can enjoy this one as they read the forums with their tin foil beanie firmly in place.

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