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Should Numbers Dictate This Sport?


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Last night, I stumbled over a forum about why simple micro's in Wal*Mart parking lots are ruining the sport. Then i stumbled upon the World Ranking of Geocachers according to finds. This sport is turning into a game of numbers, and less about location. When I go to a cache, I'm looking for a nice view, beautiful setting, or soemthing unusual I can't find in normal life. I live in a VIBRANT caching area, in SW Pennsylvania. And a very good example of a good geocache hider is "QuestMaster". What is the direction of this sport? and what can we do if it's turning in the wrong direction?

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YOU can hide and seek caches that YOU like.

 

You know, I hear that a lot in the forums and today I feel like taking issue with it. You don't really know what a cache is like until you've looked for it and found it. When I go caching it's with the implicit expectation that the cache was hidden to show me, as the poster says, "a nice view, beautiful setting, or soemthing unusual I can't find in normal life." I can't really bypass crappy parking lot hides unless there's a seperate category for them.

 

Not that I would - I have my find rate to worry about after all...

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YOU can hide and seek caches that YOU like.

 

You know, I hear that a lot in the forums and today I feel like taking issue with it. You don't really know what a cache is like until you've looked for it and found it. When I go caching it's with the implicit expectation that the cache was hidden to show me, as the poster says, "a nice view, beautiful setting, or soemthing unusual I can't find in normal life." I can't really bypass crappy parking lot hides unless there's a seperate category for them.

 

Not that I would - I have my find rate to worry about after all...

I can see if a cache is in a Walmart parking lot by looking at a map. It's really easy.

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I think (therefore I cache), I think that one compliments the other. If you're after numbers, you'll get scenery even if you don't want it. If you're after scenery, you'll get numbers because you don't know where a cache will take you. The odds are, you'll get to see something along the way that you haven't seen before. Sometimes it doesn't pan out that way but what is 100%?

 

;)

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But, why would I waste gas to see view of cars in a parking lot just so I can say I got a find. My point is that, if a cache has no value to you rather than one more on your list....why is it even there to clutter my closest cache search page?

Add it to your ignore list...it won't show up on your searches anymore.

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So setup your own ranking system and reward someone else based on your criteria for "worthiness of find".

 

If whoever created this "World Ranking" has decided to recognize the geocachers who have found the most caches, regardless of their location, then they can deem it so.

 

If you have a different idea of what makes something "World's Best", then you can recognize the person who best fits *your* criteria and bestow upon that winner your award.

 

There are something on the order of 6 different major "movie awards" because each one thinks there's a different criteria for what makes a winner.

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With more cachers and more caches of every kind you can find what you like when you like and how you like.

 

With a little preparation you can avoid micro's, walmart parking lots and have a nice hike in the woods, or lava flow. Or you can avoid nature and stay in your urban jungle. In general I know by looking at my PDA map what the cache will be like. It's not hard, and not even close to rocket science.

 

The only numbers angst I've ever encountered is by people obsessing over other peoples numbers. The ones who have then don't seem to worry about it so much, and if they do they keep it to themselves or their own personal rival. Having a rival motivates you to cache. Is that a bad thing?

 

I don't see an issue here.

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So setup your own ranking system and reward someone else based on your criteria for "worthiness of find".

 

If whoever created this "World Ranking" has decided to recognize the geocachers who have found the most caches, regardless of their location, then they can deem it so.

 

If you have a different idea of what makes something "World's Best", then you can recognize the person who best fits *your* criteria and bestow upon that winner your award.

 

There are something on the order of 6 different major "movie awards" because each one thinks there's a different criteria for what makes a winner.

thats sounds like a good idea. but it would be impossible to accomplish and to accomplish fairly.

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Maybe this "World Ranking" should be based, on scenic value, and things like location!  A person who has found 8,000 micro's in their K-Mart parking lot shouldn't be rewarded!

Rewarded?? What did they win?

 

 

 

http://grand_high_pobah.home.comcast.net/Rank1-125.html

 

^This

What's the prize?

 

All that I see there is a list of names and numbers. ;)

 

 

Here's what it boils down to: If you like a type of cache...go find some like that. And hide some that are of that style, so that others with the same taste can enjoy them.

But don't complain about what someone else enjoys.

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Maybe this "World Ranking" should be based, on scenic value, and things like location! A person who has found 8,000 micro's in their K-Mart parking lot shouldn't be rewarded!

That's the way it works now!!. I only log the caches I think were "worthwhile" finds. CCCooperAgency logs every cache she finds including "lame" micros in a parking lot. I figure only 13.5% of her finds are what I call worthwhile. So essentially we're tied ;)

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Maybe this "World Ranking" should be based, on scenic value, and things like location! A person who has found 8,000 micro's in their K-Mart parking lot shouldn't be rewarded!

Skydiver had a ranking system that gave points to caches based on how often they were found (or weren't found). The working theory rewarded cachers of the less found caches. It was a nice variation.

 

I happen to like stats, and think you can and should split them a thousand ways.

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I wish someone would do a "Garbage Landfill" cache and do away with the flowers, mountains, clear blue sky's, trees, animals, etc. Just trash! Or a Ford dealership cache. Lots of autos there. - Come on now, nothing is 100%. I've been to some great lakes and places. Really thought provoking places, churches with baptistries in creeks, cementaries, historical sites, state parks. But even those had some trash and cars and stuff there. I used my truck to get there or 4 wheeler.

 

... It's really simple, if you don't like the cache area, don't go.

 

;)

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The nice thing about geocaching is that it can be anything that each player wants it to be. Want it to be about terrain 4 hikes to mountaintops? Fine. Want it to be about walks in the neighborhood park or greenbelt? Fine. Want it to be about numbers, where you find 50 Wal-Mart caches every day? Fine. Want to go to an event and log a bunch of temporary caches? Fine.

 

My mood and desire changes by the day. One day I might want to do a hike to a mountaintop, another I just feel like zipping around town exploring parking lots. Another day maybe I want to take a bike ride along the river. I can do all that and more.

 

The bottom line is that everyone can make this game what they want it to be. Some might even want to make it a competition. But until some corporation starts handing out prizes, they're really only competing against themselves.

 

Play the game the way you want to, and stop telling others how they should play the game.

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Maybe this "World Ranking" should be based, on scenic value, and things like location! A person who has found 8,000 micro's in their K-Mart parking lot shouldn't be rewarded!

If you care more about the scenery, what do you care if someone found 8000 micros or whether they are being rewarded for it? There is certainly enough variety in the caches today that you can pick and choose what you want. With the attributes now, it is a little easier to get an idea of what is out there.

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I wish someone would do a "Garbage Landfill" cache and do away with the flowers, mountains, clear blue sky's, trees, animals, etc. Just trash! Or a Ford dealership cache. Lots of autos there. - Come on now, nothing is 100%. I've been to some great lakes and places. Really thought provoking places, churches with baptistries in creeks, cementaries, historical sites, state parks. But even those had some trash and cars and stuff there. I used my truck to get there or 4 wheeler.

 

... It's really simple, if you don't like the cache area, don't go.

 

;)

Numbers mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this game. And if you do in fact think that they do, you are just as crazy as the people looking for these micros in the Mcdonalds drive thru.

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Maybe this "World Ranking" should be based, on scenic value, and things like location!  A person who has found 8,000 micro's in their K-Mart parking lot shouldn't be rewarded!

Skydiver had a ranking system that gave points to caches based on how often they were found (or weren't found). The working theory rewarded cachers of the less found caches. It was a nice variation.

 

I happen to like stats, and think you can and should split them a thousand ways.

The cache that I just found for number 600, had not been logged since 2003. Maybe I should get a prize. Since it was a six mile hike rountrip, I should get bonus points also. ;)

 

BurntPeak.jpg

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Without a doubt, I'm one of the biggest noobs in the system. But what drew me into this sport, is the outdoors adventure. I'm sure Indiana Jones isn't going to these "Wal Mart Micros" ;) ....This game isn't about finding a CACHE!!!!!! IT'S MORE ABOUT "Ultimately you'll want to place a cache in a place that is unique in some way. The big reward for geocachers, other than finding the cache itself, is the location. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache. "

 

Don't lead me to a Lowe's store in Willburton, West Virginia to see where uncle jebadiah lost his only tooth.

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Don't lead me to a Lowe's store in Willburton, West Virginia to see where uncle jebadiah lost his only tooth.

If you can't tell it's a Lowe's parking lot from the map, you've got to brush up on them map skills. If you can tell but you just think caches of the sort you don't like shouldn't exist, you need to brush up on your "playing nice with others" skills.

 

I'm inclined to agree with your choice of cache, but your notion of enforcing your preferences on the game gets my back up.

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Without a doubt, I'm one of the biggest noobs in the system.  But what drew me into this sport, is the outdoors adventure.  I'm sure Indiana Jones isn't going to these "Wal Mart Micros" ;) ....This game isn't about finding a CACHE!!!!!! IT'S MORE ABOUT "Ultimately you'll want to place a cache in a place that is unique in some way. The big reward for geocachers, other than finding the cache itself, is the location. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache. "

 

Don't lead me to a Lowe's store in Willburton, West Virginia to see where uncle jebadiah lost his only tooth.

There are literally tens of thousands of caches that fall under your definition of what a geocache should be. Have you found them all yet? ;) Until you have, you can just skip right over the parking lot micros that you don't like and go for ones you do like.

 

And when you run out of "good" caches to hunt, you'll probably be on top of that list you linked to ;)

Edited by Stunod
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Ok, enough of the haste. My biggest point that hopefully may prevent another Eckerd cache.

 

This sport is about "location, location, location" micros are most often about "numbers numbers numbers". Maybe there should be another sport lke geocaching based around numbers and Olive Garden micros, but geocaching is about location.

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Numbers mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this game.

Well, perhaps to you they mean nothing.

 

To many others, numbers in one form or another are a significant part of geocaching. Even if somebody isn't playing competitive Grand Poobah style, numbers can be used to track individiual progress against individual goals.

 

For me, some days it's about the scenic hike, and other days it's about other things. Sometimes those other things involve the use of numbers.

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Also, easy urban micros are the most likely caches to be wheelchair-accessible. Of course I've seen urban micros that were really clever and others that were your average altoids tin with a magnet, and it's always good to put some effort into making it interesting. But if you're laid up or unable to hike, it's nice to have some caches you can still physically do, even if they're not all stunning.

 

(Ironically, our team's only major caching injury occurred at... an urban micro, where Hawkeye badly twisted his ankle on the curb. But it was easy urban caches that let us toddle our way onward for quite some time after that.)

 

Sometimes, I'm all het up about numbers and want to find lots of caches, because I get such a hit of excitement at each find. Sometimes I want to do a humongous multi puzzle cache that will take all day, and I'll feel no unhappiness at getting 'only' one smiley for it (if we get any smilies at all!) It's nice that the options are out there for us to do any sort of caching we feel like on a given day.

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...This sport is about "location, location, location" micros are most often about "numbers numbers numbers". Maybe there should be another sport lke geocaching based around numbers and Olive Garden micros, but geocaching is about location.

Eh? Micros about numbers? Maybe they should be easier to find then.

 

BTW I like junkyards, urban homeless areas, and other places that some people hate. Location, location, location, yes, but tastes vary. I happen to like seeing the interesting aspects of all of the world I live in. Not just the Ansel Adams photo ops.

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...This sport is about "location, location, location" micros are most often about "numbers numbers numbers".  Maybe there should be another sport lke geocaching based around numbers and Olive Garden micros, but geocaching is about location.

Eh? Micros about numbers? Maybe they should be easier to find then.

 

BTW I like junkyards, urban homeless areas, and other places that some people hate. Location, location, location, yes, but tastes vary. I happen to like seeing the interesting aspects of all of the world I live in. Not just the Ansel Adams photo ops.

Ansel Adams?

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1/1's are pathetic hands down. ...

I love your blanket statements. I can make a 5/5 that you just can't get. That doesn't make it a good cache. I can make a 1/1 well worth the visit. That doesn't make it pathetic.

 

Your point is getting lost in all the battlefield smoke this thread is generating.

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...This sport is about "location, location, location" micros are most often about "numbers numbers numbers".  Maybe there should be another sport lke geocaching based around numbers and Olive Garden micros, but geocaching is about location.

Eh? Micros about numbers? Maybe they should be easier to find then.

 

BTW I like junkyards, urban homeless areas, and other places that some people hate. Location, location, location, yes, but tastes vary. I happen to like seeing the interesting aspects of all of the world I live in. Not just the Ansel Adams photo ops.

Ansel Adams?

Famous geocacher.

 

Would only search for black and white caches, though.

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YOU can hide and seek caches that YOU like.

 

You know, I hear that a lot in the forums and today I feel like taking issue with it. You don't really know what a cache is like until you've looked for it and found it. When I go caching it's with the implicit expectation that the cache was hidden to show me, as the poster says, "a nice view, beautiful setting, or soemthing unusual I can't find in normal life." I can't really bypass crappy parking lot hides unless there's a seperate category for them.

 

Not that I would - I have my find rate to worry about after all...

Find a cacher that caches like you do, and use his Bookmarked favorites list. Next time I'm in Western Pennsylvania, I'm pretty sure that I'm gonna work off of The Leprechauns' favorites list. I don't know if they cache like me --- but their list is very descriptive. And make a bookmark list of your own favorite caches so others can use that to avoid the lame ones, i.e. micros, ammo boxes, or whatever container thrown behind a dumpster they may be.

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A cacher in my area turned the whole numbers-quest on its head and provided a really cool resource for those of us who prefer adventurous caches. He's developed a site that assigns "challenge points" based upon how infrequently a cache is visited. The theory is that most cachers avoid effort in their quest for ever-higher find counts, so his system assigns the highest number of points to the least-frequently visited caches.

 

Here's the site.

 

Now you might object that this substitutes one numbers game for another. But if you're truly indifferent to the numbers, you can use the site as a filter to simplify the job of identifying caches that are truly tough, or that haven't been visited in a long time. Granted, some high-challenge-point caches got that way because they're just a long drive from any populated place, but those can be winnowed out pretty readily by a look at the description.

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Ok....lol..who's ace?

 

 

Know it all after one find?

Hmm....I wish there were competitions of outdoorsman skill. Because I hear that all the time. But caching, is all about outdoors, so if you hunt, camp, hike, ALLL THE TIME i guess that would aid you using your gps and being a good cacher. and maybe im 14 and can't drive to these things.

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My mood and desire changes by the day. One day I might want to do a hike to a mountaintop, another I just feel like zipping around town exploring parking lots. Another day maybe I want to take a bike ride along the river. I can do all that and more.
Ditto! ;)

 

And for me it is all about the numbers, so don't tell me how I should play this game. ;)

  • number of great times had looking for caches
  • number of times I have found those caches
  • number of times I haven't found those caches
  • number of great people I have met playing this game (getting bigger all the time)
  • number of idiots I have met playing this game (very small)
  • number of cool places I have been to, just cuz there was a cache hidden there
  • number of things I have done just cuz there is a cache there
  • number of fun stories I have heard told about other cachers exploits
  • number of stories I can now tell cuz I went to find that cache
  • number of great memories I have that are caching related
  • number of caches on my TO DO list
  • number of caches I checked off that list cuz someone told me about them, so I had to go do them

Get the point? ;)

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Walmart micros are only the "poster children" of traches. There are plenty of caches out there that seem okay on the surface, but when you finally find them you are left with a sense of a monumental waste of time.

 

I fully appreciate the ignore list. No longer am I held hostage of having to write a polite find it log with the fear of it being deleted on a whim because the owner didn't like my tone. I can find a cache and remove it from my nearest list without giving the owner of a trache the reward of a log. I suppose I could write a note, but many times I feel I've already wasted enough time.

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1/1's are pathetic hands down. Gimme a 5/5. If someone found 8,000 5/5's i'll be impressed. but not 8,000 micros. and not 91 in 13 hours.

The enthusiasm is strong in this one. </yoda_voice>

 

There are many, many, many goecachers out there. Some of them are older than you, some are younger. Some people enjoy hunting the easier caches, some people enjoy the tougher ones. Some people like both. Thankfully there are plenty of all type of caches to match the various caching styles.

 

Hunt for what you like, but you'll likely draw some fire in the forums if you push your favorite flavor as the 'right' one.

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[i suggest your own rating system]

 

thats sounds like a good idea. but it would be impossible to accomplish and to accomplish fairly.

You *can't* accomplish your own rating system for deeming what makes the top cacher of your "worthy" finds and yet you *can* sit back here and determine what doesn't make your grade of "worthy" by singling out Eckerd/Walmart/parking lots/micros/"1/1s"...and so on?

 

Either you can or you can't create a solid criteria for what makes a cache "worthy" of finding it.

 

Next, you say that it's not about the numbers...yet you complain that some people go by the numbers. If it's not about the numbers, then those people don't matter, right? But you're clearly letting them matter because you feel the need to come in here and complain about them.

 

Either you do or you don't care about the numbers.

 

Finally, you could have seen one of the umpteen posts that already hit on all of the things you've said/complained about (micros, 1/1s, parking lot caches, numbers, etc). Yet you felt the need to complain about them separately too.

 

Either you are or you aren't trying to just troll for responses.

 

It looks like you have quite a bit to figure out in order to keep your argument cohesive and meaningful.

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Without a doubt, I'm one of the biggest noobs in the system. But what drew me into this sport, is the outdoors adventure. I'm sure Indiana Jones isn't going to these "Wal Mart Micros" ;) ....This game isn't about finding a CACHE!!!!!! IT'S MORE ABOUT "Ultimately you'll want to place a cache in a place that is unique in some way. The big reward for geocachers, other than finding the cache itself, is the location. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache. "

 

Don't lead me to a Lowe's store in Willburton, West Virginia to see where uncle jebadiah lost his only tooth.

But what drew some of us into the sport cannot keep some of us in the sport at all times. I was recently in a bad accident that has left me temporarily unable to go out in the nature to seek the caches...does that mean I can't cache? I am actually for once grateful for the urban micros because I don't have to wait another month to go caching even though I can't hike right now. For that matter...what about those who can never go the 6 hour hike for the micro in the woods due to wheelchair, asthma etc...I say put those Walmart micros there so everyone can enjoy the sport/addiction/hobby...not just the able bodied He-Man who will only cache if it involves dangling his body over a cliff to retrieve it.

 

;)

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1/1's are pathetic hands down.  Gimme a 5/5.  If someone found 8,000 5/5's i'll be impressed.  but not 8,000 micros. and not 91 in 13 hours.

Silly me and here I'm impressed when someone has 2 finds to their name. At least between each of your screen names, even you qualify. So you're up 4 now? Is that 4 screen names or 4 geocaches? I get confused. ;)

Edited by ZillahBillies
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