Disturbing News

1.5k · July 5, 2005

I was just watching the KING 5 news and saw the story on Joseph Edward Duncan III, the man who kidnapped two children and murdered their mother, her boyfriend and probably one of the children as well. He is a geocacher! The story didn't specifically say geocaching, but said he was a member of a GPS organization and showed his username and part of his profile on TV. Immediately recognizable if you're a geocacher too.

3.8k · July 5, 2005

This is being discussed here

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...opic=102338&hl=

7.3k · July 5, 2005

I find the whole story very disturbing, also. Probably partly because it has happened so near to us. It seems from reading the report, though, that they do not know yet if Duncan actually killed the rest of Shasta's family. It looks like a big mess, and hopefully they will figure everything out in the long run.

22k · July 5, 2005

sex offender is a geocacher

I'm sorrry, but I really fail to see what the two things have to do with eachother.

1.1k · July 5, 2005

They don't have anything to do with one another but it is NOT good PR for Geocaching!

Apparently he only did 10 caches in Frago from Oct 04 to Dec 04.

Duncan's now banned account jetd63

His logs

Fargo-Moorhead Bug-Tel West

9.5k · July 5, 2005

It isn't any worse than finding out your daycare provider or school has a pedophile as an employee. They are in all walks of life. As responsible parents, we should already be aware we don't really know each other as well as we might like.

1.3k · July 5, 2005

It isn't any worse than finding out your daycare provider or school has a pedophile as an employee. They are in all walks of life. As responsible parents, we should already be aware we don't really know each other as well as we might like.

Exactly. In any sizeable slice of human population you are going to get a certain small percentage of criminals and assorted weirdos.

Focusing on the fact that he found 10 geocaches is a stupid as saying, "Gotta watchout for those software engineers! They could be violent pedohpiles!"

5.6k · July 5, 2005

Can't criminals have hobbies?

Or have none of you every broken the speed laws on the way to a cache?

24.7k · July 5, 2005

Can't criminals have hobbies?

Or have none of you every broken the speed laws on the way to a cache?

Oh come on, I can't believe you said that. It's was the 4th this weekend. I merely bought a bunch of illegal fireworks on the resevation. They were doing a brisk trade I might add. But I didn't speed.

1.3k · July 5, 2005

KING 5 mentioned his geonick this morning on their newscast. I agree, the fact that he's found a few caches doesn't have anything to do with this case. I wish they'd leave that part out.

1.5k · July 5, 2005

They don't have anything to do with one another but it is NOT good PR for Geocaching!

Apparently he only did 10 caches in Frago from Oct 04 to Dec 04.

Duncan's now banned account jetd63

His logs

Sailor's Legacy

Hold your breath

Red River Trail

River Rat

The Coulee

Island Park Puzzle

A Bridge Not Too Far

Playful Pachyderm

Rose Creek, Fargo

Fargo-Moorhead Bug-Tel West

I see that at least one of his finds have dissappeared from the list. He had at least one find here in WA when I looked at his account yesterday. Apparently someone decided to delete his find.

9.5k · July 5, 2005

Can't criminals have hobbies?

Or have none of you every broken the speed laws on the way to a cache?

According to Criminal's profile he does have a hobby.

1.2k · July 5, 2005

10 finds does not a geocacher make. That's like calling oneself a jogger is one does a run maybe once a month.

24.7k · July 5, 2005

Why would the account be banned? Has this guy been tried and found guilty or did the police make a request?

1.3k · July 5, 2005

Why would the account be banned? Has this guy been tried and found guilty or did the police make a request?

I imagine Groundspeak, as a private entity, does not feel the need to presume innocence and feels free to ban probable murderer/pedophile rapists before such time as they have been convicted as is their right. People have been banned for perceived offenses a lot tamer than this.

If the whole thing turns out to be a crazy misunderstanding, I'm sure they'll unlock that account upon request.

24.7k · July 5, 2005

Why would the account be banned? Has this guy been tried and found guilty or did the police make a request?

I imagine Groundspeak, as a private entity, does not feel the need to presume innocence ...

That's true enough. They have banned for lesser things. They don't explain either, we are left to wonder what can get you banned.

1.3k · July 5, 2005

That's true enough. They have banned for lesser things. They don't explain either, we are left to wonder what can get you banned.

OK. We can definitly put down suspicion of murder as something that will get you banned.

I know I shouldn't be cracking jokes when there is a dead boy...

1.5k · July 5, 2005

Why would the account be banned? Has this guy been tried and found guilty or did the police make a request?

I imagine Groundspeak, as a private entity, does not feel the need to presume innocence and feels free to ban probable murderer/pedophile rapists before such time as they have been convicted as is their right. People have been banned for perceived offenses a lot tamer than this.

If the whole thing turns out to be a crazy misunderstanding, I'm sure they'll unlock that account upon request.

And I would wager that this isn't the first account banned by Groundspeak (this week!)...for a variety of reasons.

I'm sure they will listen to any geocacher's appeal for reinstatement. And in this case, they could just be trying to stem any possible negative PR by being proactive.

1.5k · July 5, 2005

It doesn't really matter whether he's banned or not. If he did everything he's alleged to have done, he'll never be free to cache again.

7.3k · July 5, 2005

KING 5 mentioned his geonick this morning on their newscast. I agree, the fact that he's found a few caches doesn't have anything to do with this case. I wish they'd leave that part out.

It's sad that they have to keep bringing it up. I guess it's because geocaching is an unknown entity to them, and you know how they say about people being afraid of what they don't know. It's not like they keep mentioning in news reports, "And folks, he liked rasberry jam on his toast every morning!"

July 6, 2005

I understand that it has nothing to do with anything he's accused of- I agree that there are a million other things the accused shares with others and in no way casts aspersions onto those hobbies- BUT it is decidely creepy to think of such a horrible person (call me judgemental...) shared even the tiniest nanoseconds of fun in the same hobby I love so much. The particular crimes he is accused of are among the most awful I can imagine... to hear he participated in geocaching just creeps me out. Ugh. Just goes to show that you never really know people...

July 6, 2005

It isn't any worse than finding out your daycare provider or school has a pedophile as an employee. They are in all walks of life. As responsible parents, we should already be aware we don't really know each other as well as we might like.

I would say that your examples would be far worse than finding out that someone who may turn out to be a very evil person has dabbled in a hobby of mine.

9.5k · July 6, 2005

It isn't any worse than finding out your daycare provider or school has a pedophile as an employee. They are in all walks of life. As responsible parents, we should already be aware we don't really know each other as well as we might like.

I would say that your examples would be far worse than finding out that someone who may turn out to be a very evil person has dabbled in a hobby of mine.

Indeed. But that wasn't my point.

July 6, 2005

It isn't any worse than finding out your daycare provider or school has a pedophile as an employee. They are in all walks of life. As responsible parents, we should already be aware we don't really know each other as well as we might like.

I would say that your examples would be far worse than finding out that someone who may turn out to be a very evil person has dabbled in a hobby of mine.

Indeed. But that wasn't my point.

I was actually agreeing with your point. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

July 6, 2005

I have enjoyed reading all of the comments regarding this evil sick minded person. In fairness to all I can see it is very difficult to be opinionated with our own thoughts without being judgemental.

As far as this individual being a geocacher may have been very helpful to all of the law enforcement officers involved with this case. Who knows this guy may have had a gps with him and this may have been the key tool for the law enforcement officers to find the site where human remains were found.

It would be a little hard for me to believe that an eight year old child could remember everything and everywhere they may have been in the past 6-7 weeks. Consider the time factor from Saturday morning and over the weekend have a site located, unknown human remains found and sent to the crime lab. It will be interesting to learn the facts how this all came about. Maybe this sick person set up his own path leading to criminal justice.

July 6, 2005

What creeped me out wasn't the possible tarnishing of our noble hobby by the press, but that having bad guys geocache increases my chances of running into them when I'm out in the woods with my GPS. I would generally assume someone else with a GPS and a cache printout was an OK person, not a potential rapist/murderer. (This is assuming he isn't acting obviously demented. However, I'm on the SCANUSA e-mail alert thingy and all the "newly registered sex offenders" look just like any other rednecks in the next town over.)

GeekWriter

July 6, 2005

sex offender is a geocacher

That seriously has nothing to do with anything. It's rather frustrating. I mean...ok so the guy has a few problems in real life. I mean come on....what about the Nudests......how about the guy that likes to CACHE NUDE? It's not like he's tracking people with his GPS....

I'm sure we all have our little nooks and cranny's that we dont want our geo friends to know about...and im sure we all have something......

By they way...who gave us the power to judge?

~D

9.5k · July 6, 2005

What creeped me out wasn't the possible tarnishing of our noble hobby by the press, but that having bad guys geocache increases my chances of running into them when I'm out in the woods with my GPS. I would generally assume someone else with a GPS and a cache printout was an OK person, not a potential rapist/murderer. (This is assuming he isn't acting obviously demented. However, I'm on the SCANUSA e-mail alert thingy and all the "newly registered sex offenders" look just like any other rednecks in the next town over.)

GeekWriter

Versus meeting up with that general hiker or backpacker that you'll run into out there or in the general city park? I would never make that assumption about anybody involved in any sport or hobby I might be interested in. If I don't know them, my trust goes as far as I can throw them.

It takes time to get to know somebody and even then, you don't know them completely. You don't know. Your father or uncle, your minister, teacher or nanny can have these tendencies. These are people that have learned how to hold these nefarious secrets close to the chest without detection. It's only a tiny mistake they make that allows their crimes to become visible. To be blunt, assuming geocaching was safer than any other activity is to hold a naive perception.

To be honest, although it is creepy to realize this man may have interacted with other geocaching enthusiasts, I'm glad it came out in the open that he did have an interest in the hobby. It has brought home to many people just how complacent they may have been with personal safety awareness.

July 6, 2005

sex offender is a geocacher

That seriously has nothing to do with anything. It's rather frustrating. I mean...ok so the guy has a few problems in real life. I mean come on....what about the Nudests......how about the guy that likes to CACHE NUDE? It's not like he's tracking people with his GPS....

I'm sure we all have our little nooks and cranny's that we dont want our geo friends to know about...and im sure we all have something......

By they way...who gave us the power to judge?

~D

Does that mean that if he were to post bail and call you up and say "Hey, want to go to the woods and Geocache with me?" that you would not pre-judge him and decline? All of us have the power to judge others based upon information that we have about any particular person. That includes first impressions, known or unconfirmed past history, and appearences. You can either be judgemental or naive. I am not a calloused person but I am dang sure cautious around people I don't know.

MSN news quote:

Joseph Edward Duncan III, 42, of Fargo, N.D., a convicted sex offender on the run from an earlier child molestation count, was charged Tuesday in 1st District Court with two counts of first-degree kidnapping.

Looks to me like he has been judged before. Do you consider being classified as a sex offender likely to re-offend on childern "a few problems in real life"? :huh:

Edited July 6, 2005 by hikergps

July 6, 2005

Can't criminals have hobbies?

Or have none of you every broken the speed laws on the way to a cache?

Does u-turns count?

July 6, 2005

What creeped me out wasn't the possible tarnishing of our noble hobby by the press, but that having bad guys geocache increases my chances of running into them when I'm out in the woods with my GPS. I would generally assume someone else with a GPS and a cache printout was an OK person, not a potential rapist/murderer. ...

GeekWriter

Versus meeting up with that general hiker or backpacker that you'll run into out there or in the general city park? I would never make that assumption about anybody involved in any sport or hobby I might be interested in. If I don't know them, my trust goes as far as I can throw them.

It takes time to get to know somebody and even then, you don't know them completely. You don't know. Your father or uncle, your minister, teacher or nanny can have these tendencies. These are people that have learned how to hold these nefarious secrets close to the chest without detection. It's only a tiny mistake they make that allows their crimes to become visible. To be blunt, assuming geocaching was safer than any other activity is to hold a naive perception.

To be honest, although it is creepy to realize this man may have interacted with other geocaching enthusiasts, I'm glad it came out in the open that he did have an interest in the hobby. It has brought home to many people just how complacent they may have been with personal safety awareness.

I wasn't precise enough... sorry. I didn't mean "trust" in the sense of "would agree to go somewhere in their vehicle" or "would suggest they babysit my hypothetical kids." What I meant was "no immediate threat, exchange greetings if we make eye contact." I wouldn't run the other way and call 911 (assuming my cell phone had signal). I've seen on the forums that most geocachers will do some sort of "Hail fellow, well met!" on seeing folks with a GPS and/or Geocaching.com swag near a cache.

It probably isn't a good idea around here to cache alone in really remote areas due to mountain lion sightings and the usual hazards of hiking.

I suppose this particular sex offender is not interested in middle-aged women, but I suppose one who *was* could use geocaching as an excuse to hang out in secluded places where potential victims might show up alone, like a cat waiting at a mousehole. Depending on how popular a cache is, and the demographics of the local geocaching community, this strategy might be feasible or it might be completely far-fetched. I don't know enough about forensic psychology to know if perpetrators always plan the hunt or if they would take advantage of an opportunity like finding someone who fits their preferences while they just happened to be out in the woods pursuing their other hobby, geocaching.

9.5k · July 6, 2005

Well I'm the one that tossed "trust" out there. :unsure: Actually, the danger of meeting up with a mountain lion or black bear (in our neck of the woods) is more likely than meeting up with someone lying in wait at a cache or looking for an opportunity to accost you on the trail. Also, there are more general hikers and backpackers than there are geocachers, so getting accosted by one of them versus a geocacher is potentially higher just based on numbers alone. Seeing a GPS and cache printouts in hand does tend to cause us to drop our guard a little bit, but it should be with an awareness of your personal surroundings for your personal safety. You made a very valid point earlier...

newly registered sex offenders" look just like any other rednecks in the next town over

Cheers!

TL

7.3k · July 7, 2005

sex offender is a geocacher

That seriously has nothing to do with anything. It's rather frustrating. I mean...ok so the guy has a few problems in real life. I mean come on....what about the Nudests......how about the guy that likes to CACHE NUDE? It's not like he's tracking people with his GPS....

I'm sure we all have our little nooks and cranny's that we dont want our geo friends to know about...and im sure we all have something......

By they way...who gave us the power to judge?

~D

"ok so the guy has a few problems in real life." I have serious problems with this statement, too...a few problems? Ok, let's see. He molested (possibly raped?) a boy at gunpoint. After getting out of prison, he tried to attack two boys in a schoolyard. He got out on bail, and then immediately broke his bail by traveling across many state lines. Now he's wanted for possibly brutally murdering three people, and repeatedly raping two little children and keeping them hostage for a month and a half. One of the children is still missing, possibly dead.

These are a few problems? I'd hate to see what sort of person has a lot of problems. :unsure:

But I guess we shouldn't judge.

July 8, 2005

Ok....so this guy isnt the greatest person in the world. I'm by no means trying to stick up for him. And yes..if he were to call me up and say hey wanna go cachin. I'd say no because of past knowledege i know on him.

There are some sick, or in this case really sick people out there. They are free to have hobbies also. I dunno...yeah..he should go to jail..no doubt about that..

I dont mean to make a huge fuss with ya'll

~D

3.1k · July 8, 2005

It will have zero effect on geocaching.

Since I'm not the government and neither is GC.COM none of us have to presume this dirtbags innocence.

3.1k · July 8, 2005

One of his logs read

Joni and I found this one, almost gave up though because it was so small and hard to find. The clue helped alot. Signed log, took "Buckle Up" clasp (I can use this for SCUBA diving), left keychain pocket knife (a dangerous terrorist weapon at most airports).

I'm not concerned that because he's a scuba diver that my industry will take a hit.

July 8, 2005

One of his logs read

Joni and I found this one, almost gave up though because it was so small and hard to find. The clue helped alot. Signed log, took "Buckle Up" clasp (I can use this for SCUBA diving), left keychain pocket knife (a dangerous terrorist weapon at most airports).

I'm not concerned that because he's a scuba diver that my industry will take a hit.

OMG he's a scuba diver and geocacher. Well so am I! Does that mean I'm going to be 'profiled' as a pedophile. Oh the humanity, I don’t think I can continue on with this stigma on me, I believe my only recourse is to drink myself into oblivion.

3.1k · July 8, 2005

OMG he's a scuba diver and geocacher. Well so am I! Does that mean I'm going to be 'profiled' as a pedophile. Oh the humanity, I don’t think I can continue on with this stigma on me, I believe my only recourse is to drink myself into oblivion.

As another cacher/diver may I pour you our first beer?

Disturbing News

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