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Wilderness Geocaches


-Sapper-

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I've been searching through the geocache list on this sight and most caches seem to be in very public and easy to accesses places. so my question is .... is there a list of Geocaches in the outdoors (like the kind of outdoors you have to hike/pack too). I know there is bound to be a lot of problems with wilderness caches, but i can hope.

 

thanks

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Oh, gosh, yes! My favorite kind. I would say nice long caches in the woods are the only ones I do anymore, but that's not true. When I DNF on one (like I did today) I do an urban micro to get my smiley and soothe my feelings :anitongue:

 

Your best bet is the geocaching.com maps, I think. Zoom out and look for caches in green areas that look like parks. Or if you know where parks are in your area, go right to those areas and look for cache icons. Also, many multis (at least around here) are nice long walks in the woods. Confine your search to those and see what luck you have.

 

See you on the trail!

 

p.s. Of course, wilderness in Southern New England rarely is out of earshot of a major interestate highway, but I gather it's different Out West.

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I took the OP to mean is there an easy way to find 'significant hike' caches. Well the answer is yes and no.

 

How easy it is depends on your setup. If you're just looking at caches through gc.com, I'd say it probably isn't too easy (although being in Canada, the gc.com maps are just a big gray box with cache icons on them). If you're a premium member and download your caches in to Mapsource or similar, you can map them that way, and immediately show which caches are located in urban areas. In my case, any cache to the west of me (within xkm) is rural, and likely a significant hike, and any cache to the east of me is an urban cache, which makes it pretty easy.

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Agreed, the GC maps are tough to get a visual of where's some wilderness.

 

I really prefer caches that are significant hikes. That's pretty much all my family and I do. We did one that was a 10 mile hike across the desert, that was a great one.

 

Here's what I do:

I use GSAK to export all my unfound caches to a file that I can import into my Delorme TOPO USA! program. (I don't know where you are located, but wherever it is, there's bound to be a similar program and I'm sure GSAK will dump to it.)

 

Once that's done, I can scroll and zoom to my hearts content, and the topo program has all the information, such as terrain, wilderness boundaries, etc.

 

Do this, and all your caches will be grand adventures!

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Caches off the beaten path, in the boonies etc. are A OK. But caches in Designated Wilderness Areas are a different subject, and they generally are not allowed due to the Wilderness Act that is 40 years old.

I may be missing it, but I can find nothing int he Wilderness Act of 1964 that would preclude leaving an object for another to find; or anything close.

 

There are provisions to prohibit certain specific activities, including roads, landing of airplanes, commercial enterprises, and structures, but everything else apparentlhy gets thrown back to the national forest services for administration. And, of course, the national forest folks have nothing against geocaches.

 

Moreover, the the Wilderness Act specifically makes provisions for 'scientific' use. As we all know, many scientific ventures that would require the use of 'the middle of nowhere', usually also require the 'leaving of some gadget'. So, if they can, we can.

 

I know there are caches in the Pusch Wilderness, near Tucson, and the NFS knows about them.

 

I'll do more research, now I'm curious.

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I may be missing it, but I can find nothing int he Wilderness Act of 1964 that would preclude leaving an object for another to find; or anything close.

Found a wilderness permit I got last fall:

 

"INYO NATIONAL FOREST WILDERNESS REGULATIONS:

 

Storing or leaving unattended equipment, personal property

or supplies for more than 24 hours prohibited."

 

IT IS VERY CLEAR, CACHES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN WILDERNESS AREAS.

 

But having said that, geocaching.com has no qualms about listing such

caches at this site, so you can find some here. :P:unsure:;)

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I may be missing it, but I can find nothing int he Wilderness Act of 1964 that would preclude leaving an object for another to find; or anything close.

Found a wilderness permit I got last fall:

 

"INYO NATIONAL FOREST WILDERNESS REGULATIONS:

 

Storing or leaving unattended equipment, personal property

or supplies for more than 24 hours prohibited."

 

IT IS VERY CLEAR, CACHES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN WILDERNESS AREAS.

 

But having said that, geocaching.com has no qualms about listing such

caches at this site, so you can find some here. ;););)

It depends upon local management.

 

Some national forests allow caches inside designated Wilderness Areas, some do not. It seems to depend mostly on how heavily used a Wilderness is. Lightly used Wilderness Areas have fewer restrictions and local managers are more tolerant of activities that are not allowed in other more heavily used areas.

 

National Park lands do not, whether inside designated wilderness or out.

 

Not sure of BLM Wilderness.

 

Wilderness Study Areas and Proposed Wilderness are different. They are not officially designated as wilderness yet, so Wilderness Act restrictions do not apply, yet by policy the administering agency is to treat the area as if it were designated wilderness -- a legal grey area that has not yet been clarified.

 

NF lands classified as 'roadless' are not Wilderness and the Wilderness Act does not apply to these lands. The Wilderness Act ONLY applies to federal lands designated as Wilderness by Congress and only Congress has the authority to do so. There are state wilderness areas on state lands but those are regulated by state law, not the 1964 Federal act.

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Since the Wilderness Act of 1964 does not specifically prohibit geocaching, or anything similar, and does not delegate to the USFS any ability for additional rulemaking, what are they using as the basis for prohibiting geocaching in federally designated wilderness areas?

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Since the Wilderness Act of 1964 does not specifically prohibit geocaching, or anything similar, and does not delegate to the USFS any ability for additional rulemaking, what are they using as the basis for prohibiting geocaching in federally designated wilderness areas?

Other federal laws allow agencies some leeway in how provisions of laws are interpreted.

 

If you disagree with how a local unit applies the regulations to geocaching, you could place one in a Wilderness and see if you receive a citation. Then you take a day off work, drive many miles to appear in front of a Federal magistrate and make your argument. The judge may or may not agree with you that the agency was overstepping its authority in the local interpretation. If you win the case you have a moral victory but you are still out a day's pay and expenses. If you lose you are out a day's pay and expenses, plus the fine and court costs.

 

Just paying the fine by mail is cheaper.

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Getting back to the OP's origianl question, yes there are. Generally these caches have a terrain difficulty of 3, 4, or 5. Depending on where you live with a little planning you may also be able to find large parks and forests that with a little planning you can spend the entire day hiking from one cache to another. They may not have the high terrain rating, but by the end of the day you'll be just as tired.

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...It depends upon local management...

There you go.

 

Caches of the more traditional sort, (food and water) have been done for hundreds of hears for some very difficult hikes such as one across the Lavaflows in South Central Idaho part of which make up Craters of the Moon.

 

The NPS doesn't allow caches but then again, they do allow the traditinal kind.

 

In Alaska they build cabins to be dropped by helicoper in remote location for people to hole up in for emergency shelter. The purpose of Wilderness isn't to keep people out, or even prevent the use of the land. It's to preserve the land for future purposes and needs.

 

Some people think wilderness means leaving your clothes and everthing else that's not natural behind. I don't.

 

To answer the OP. The best way to find the caches you want to find is to use a topo map on your computer. Then import a bunch of caches. You can then scroll around the area of interest, see what caches are there and plan your trip. You can easily tell what's going to be a hike that way.

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I may be missing it, but I can find nothing int he Wilderness Act of 1964 that would preclude leaving an object for another to find; or anything close.

Found a wilderness permit I got last fall:

 

"INYO NATIONAL FOREST WILDERNESS REGULATIONS:

 

Storing or leaving unattended equipment, personal property

or supplies for more than 24 hours prohibited."

 

IT IS VERY CLEAR, CACHES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN WILDERNESS AREAS.

 

But having said that, geocaching.com has no qualms about listing such

caches at this site, so you can find some here. B)B)B)

What's INYO?

 

All I know is that the actual text of the Wilderness Act says nothing like that...no meantion of personal property or anything.

 

But, local administration can do whatever it wants...always ask Mr. Ranger man.

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What's INYO? 

 

All I know is that the actual text of the Wilderness Act says nothing like that...no meantion of personal property or anything.

 

But, local administration can do whatever it wants...always ask Mr. Ranger man.

Whats INYO click to find out.

DEFINITION OF WILDERNESS

© A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.

 

And other than being a cacher that specializes in back country caches I'm also a volunteer Ranger. And its not the cache that gets the land managers upset but the simple fact. Do you need a cache to make you visit a Wilderness Area, can't you just go for a visit, enjoy the solitude and all the wonders that nature can provide.

 

I usually spend at least 1 day a week sometimes several at a time in a Designated Wilderness area during the summer months and enjoy the beauty that so many others would really like to see. And I would like to see it preservered for those that will follow us in the future; my grandkids will be able to see what I saw even though I may be gone.

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Found a wilderness permit I got last fall:

 

"INYO NATIONAL FOREST WILDERNESS REGULATIONS:

 

Storing or leaving unattended equipment, personal property

or supplies for more than 24 hours prohibited."

 

IT IS VERY CLEAR, CACHES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN WILDERNESS AREAS.

 

But having said that, geocaching.com has no qualms about listing such

caches at this site, so you can find some here. :huh::D:ph34r:

What's INYO?

 

All I know is that the actual text of the Wilderness Act says nothing like that...no meantion of personal property or anything.

 

But, local administration can do whatever it wants...always ask Mr. Ranger man.

INYO is the name of a Wilderness area on the east side of the Sierras in Cal :huh:

 

Congress only writes the outline of a government policy.

Then the agencies write rules which are published, I think, in the Congressional record, which detail the fine points.

 

IN ANY CASE, ask a forest service ranger!!!!!!!\

They will tell you NO, you cannot leave personal property in a wilderness area for more than 24 or 48 hours, depending on the wilderness area. :D:ph34r::D

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And other than being a cacher that specializes in back country caches I'm also a volunteer Ranger. And its not the cache that gets the land managers upset but the simple fact. Do you need a cache to make you visit a Wilderness Area, can't you just go for a visit, enjoy the solitude and all the wonders that nature can provide.

Yes, as a geocacher I need to have a cache there for me to visit. That's why I no longer visit virtuals as a geocacher, they aren't really caches.

 

I may go and visit these areas on my own, but not as a geocacher.

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DEFINITION OF WILDERNESS

© A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.

 

That's the definition you go by. Some quotes from the Wilderness act of 1964:

For this purpose there is hereby established a National Wilderness Preservation System to be composed of federally owned areas designated by Congress as "wilderness areas", and these shall be administered for the use and enjoyment of the American people in such manner as will leave them unimpaired for future use as wilderness....

 

2) Nothing in this Act shall prevent within national forest wilderness areas any activity, including prospecting, for the purpose of gathering information about mineral or other resources, if such activity is carried on in a manner compatible with the preservation of the wilderness environment...

 

.... reasonable regulations governing ingress and egress as may be prescribed by the Secretary of Agriculture consistent with the use of the land for mineral location and development and exploration, drilling, and production, and use of land for transmission lines, waterlines, telephone lines, or facilities necessary in exploring, drilling, producing, mining, and processing operations, including where essential the use of mechanized ground or air equipment and restoration as near as practicable of the surface of the land disturbed in performing prospecting, location, and , in oil and gas leasing, discovery work, exploration, drilling, and production, as soon as they have served their purpose.

 

Within wilderness areas in the national forests designated by this Act, (1) the President may, within a specific area and in accordance with such regulations as he may deem desirable, authorize prospecting for water resources, the establishment and maintenance of reservoirs, water-conservation works, power projects, transmission lines, and other facilities needed in the public interest, including the road construction and maintenance essential to development and use thereof, upon his determination that such use or uses in the specific area will better serve the interests of the United States and the people thereof than will its denial....

 

the grazing of livestock, where established prior to the effective date of this Act, shall be permitted to continue

 

Compared to what is allowed in a "wilderness area" geocaching is quite harmless.

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