Log Not Signed

[+tiddles]

Again I'm concerned about a cache not actually being found and the log not signed, yet the cache has been claimed as a find.

June 15 by OldChap (66 found)

"For starters, I have to admit that I did not physically reach the cache itself, but just got upto a few meters. The last meters required wading through at least waist high nettles. Combine this with the rain and dust on the nettles, would mean I would be dirty up to my ears. It was my second day of the holiday, and spoiling my main clothes (with a motorcycle you don't have a lot of space for spare clothing) was a bit too much for me. And crushing everything in front of me would leave a very obvious path, which is not wanted.

However, combined with the hint and the coordinates it must have been the correct location.

Now the walk through the village was interesting and the walk towards the cache was wet (one of the two day I had rain) but still very nice."

We could all get to within a few feet & not find not sign & claim a find, just because we did'nt want ot get dirty or wet. I'm sorry but as the 'minder' of this cache I don't think it hould be allowed. Views please

Love tiddles

xxx

[+Happy Humphrey]

It can't be claimed as a find, and the "Old Chap" should be educated about this etiquette. So send him a polite e-mail telling him why you deleted his log, including a copy of his original text (so he can copy and paste it) and inviting him to submit a DNF.

 

HH

[+-Phoenix-]

I agree, however, I have once claimed a cache that I didnt sign the log book (due to muggle presence), however I claimed it because I saw the cache, and would have had no problems retrieving it were it not for a muggle parked right opposite with a perfect view of my activities.

 

I think it highly depends upon the reasons, if the lack of retrieval was because they didnt actually find it, or couldnt achieve a set of obvious tasks/actions that form part of the cache, then it should not be counted as a find.... and in some cases, this could include retrieving a container in a very muggle infested area.

 

OTOH, if the lack of retrieval was just circumstantial, and under normal contitions there would have been no problem, then the ocasional non signing is OK

[Nediam]

If the log's not signed it's NOT a find.

[+*bingoboy*]

I've twice not expected to go caching but had some time on my hands and claimed micros that I did find that i did not sign the log due to lack of pen

I did email the owner with a photo from my phone of the cache

 

surely this counts as a find

???

[+Bill D (wwh)]

An unsigned logbook doesn't worry me in itself, as long as there's a good reason for it. But in this case I think the cacher's log says it all:

 

I have to admit that I did not physically reach the cache itself, but just got upto a few meters.

 

He says he didn't find it, so it's not a Find.

 

I wouldn't delete his log immediately. Initially I would email him, politely explaining that this really can't be counted as a find, and asking him to change his log to a note or a DNF. If he chooses not to, then of course you have the option of deleting his log yourself. If you do delete it, do as Happy Humphrey suggested and copy his log, so that he can paste it as a note or a DNF if he then chooses to.

[+Bill D (wwh)]

*bingoboy* wrote:

I've twice not expected to go caching but had some time on my hands and claimed micros that I did find that i did not sign the log due to lack of pen

I did email the owner with a photo from my phone of the cache

 

surely this counts as a find

???

If I were the cache owner I'd be happy with that.

[+Mr'D]

I recall someone claimed a micro of mine and didn't sign the log because of the lack of a pen.

At the end of the day, they only cheat themselves.

It would soon become obvious if they made a habit of such a practice

I let their log stand.

[Nediam]

I've twice not expected to go caching but had some time on my hands and claimed micros that I did find that i did not sign the log due to lack of pen

I did email the owner with a photo from my phone of the cache

 

surely this counts as a find

???

I heard of one cacher who found a cache and didn't have a pen. He placed a muddy finger print on the cache page and explained it on the online log. The next cacher confirmed there was indeed a fingerprint on the log

 

I think I was a bit harsh saying no sign - no find, but if you find a cache and can't sign the log due to a lack of pen then you could always do something to prove you were there.

[+Mr'D]

He placed a muddy finger print on the cache page and explained it on the online log

I also recall following another cacher around the Ridgeway series.

No pen or mud available - they tore a small rectangle out of each logbook!

[+Snosrap]

Not signed - no find.

 

No excuses.

 

BTW "signed" means put some mark on the log. Doesn't need to be legible or even written; just marked.

 

Edit: I believe that this is also a legal definition of a signature.

Edited July 2, 2005 by Snosrap

[+McDeHack]

I cannot believe that a geocacher would go out without a pen or two. I feel sure that we have all found a cache and the pen in it does not work.

It's like going caching without a GPS, map, or cache sheet.

[Nediam]

It's like going caching without a GPS, map, or cache sheet.

Sounds like "muggling" to me

[+jjjandrbaker]

I cannot believe that a geocacher would go out without a pen or two.

I have this really awful habit of leaving my pen or pencil in a cache that doesn't have one!!!! I think I will put a pen on a chain and wear it around my neck.

[+dino-irl]

Not signed - no find.

 

No excuses.

What if the log book is in a condition that it can't be signed! Happened on one of my finds. It was a micro that got soaked and the single page inside had fallen to pieces. Its STILL a find and I count it as such.

 

There's no such thing as NO EXCUSE! Everyone plays the game according to the GUIDElines but strictly enforcing regulations takes the fun out of everything.

 

Edit to say: I wouldn't count it as a find either but if I was the owner and he had emailed me to ask if he could claim it first I might have considered it

Edited July 2, 2005 by dino-irl

[nobby.nobbs]

enough of the no sign no log argument...he didn't find it! hell i know where several thousand caches are but haven't got all the way to them as it will involve all the hassle of driving and getting all around the country and potentially leaving evidence of my presence at the site. plus there might be hills to climb etc. does that mean i can log every cache in the country?

 

arguing semantics i know but he didn't even get close enough to see the cache...sorry it's a dnf.

[+The Hornet]

Not signed - no find.

 

No excuses.

As a cache owner I prefer a finder to sign the logbook, generally using the pen/pencil I provide.

 

However if the pen/pencil isn't available, or if the logbook is full or damaged and I haven't managed to replace it then if they say they found it I accept their word.

 

I take the view that if they have knowingly touched the cache they are entitled to log it as Found. After all it's only a game

[+third-degree-witch]

No log = no find in my view

[+alma]

i can only agree with the others no log no find i have done plenty of caches were i could have put i got within a few feet so im claiming it fellows excuse very poor dont count it

[+John & Hazel]

In the Getting started Guidelines, under Finding Your First Cache The Find

Usually you take an item and leave an item, and enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book. It’s an accomplishment enough to locate the cache.

Personally I would prefer the log book to be signed/marked/clipped in some way.

[Dave from Glanton]

...a cache not actually being found...

Exactly. If he didn't find it, then there's no logical way he can log it as a find.

 

There are sometimes cases where I have 'fessed up and logged a DNF, and others where I have wanted to spare my blushes for not being able to find what should have been an easy one, so I haven't logged anything.

 

On at least one occaision due to adverse conditions or severe muggledom I've taken the option of just posting a note for the cache - doesn't show as a DNF, doesn't falsely claim to be a find, but at least lets the cache owner know that the cache has caught my interest.

[+Sue and Bernie]

I cannot agree with the rigid "No Sign - No Find" position. There are always exceptions that prove the rule.

 

For example, we found the cache "GCJEK9 - For Lucy" after it had been vandalised (it is still archieved). We found the box, a few sad contents and a rude note. We hid the container nearby and contacted the owner to advise them of the situation.

 

It was a definate find - but no sign since there was no book (or much else) left... and we claimed as such along with the pleasant thankyou's from the owner.

 

...so there! Nah!

[+Snosrap]

I have found several caches where the log has either been unsignable (usually waterlogged) or full. In these circumstances I use another piece of paper (I generally carry a waterproof notebook & pencil), sign that and pop it into the cache as a record of my visit. Often I put a few sheets in as a temporary log and e-mail the owner to advise of the situation.

 

So - still no excuses!

Edited July 3, 2005 by Snosrap

[+Skippy and Pingu]

We agree that the not signed no log rule cannot always be adhered to. We once found a cache in a high muggle area, eventually retrieved container after 20 mins of stealth tactics. Then we couldn't get the log sheet out of it because it was jammed in so tightly that all we could do was rip lots of tiny pieces off. It would eventually have come out but in millions of pieces. There was no way we could possible get another piece of paper in.

In the case stated above though it should have been logged as a DNF, we had to do this for exactly the same reason, too much folage, just last week.

[Sparticus]

There have been a couple of caches I was unable to sign, but still logged as found.

 

One in particular was by a lane in some trees in Norfolk. When I got there and waded through thick undergrowth thousands of midges took off and started attacking me. I quickly took out my phone and photographed the caches hiding spot. I wasn't about to stay any longer to sign the log book as I REALLY don't like midges. Ask anyone at the carry on camping event. I found the cache and had proof that I did. I had to run around 100 yards to escape the onslaught.

 

On my return I emailed the owner before I logged it to make sure they were happy that I had found the cache.

If he had been unflexible with the no sign, no find theory then I would have wasted about 2 hours worth of walking to find it, even though I had.

 

I'm glad to see the majority of cachers are open to interpretation and flexible in their approach to geocaching.

 

I have been caching for a number of years and have seen cachers come and cachers go. Those who stick with the practice of inflexibility usually snap. This is a GAME afterall and should be made as fun possible.

[+Snosrap]

I have been caching for a number of years and have seen cachers come and cachers go. Those who stick with the practice of inflexibility usually snap. This is a GAME afterall and should be made as fun possible.

Fair enough. I bow down to your greater experience.

[+Sensei TSKC]

I cannot believe that a geocacher would go out without a pen or two. I feel sure that we have all found a cache and the pen in it does not work.

It's like going caching without a GPS, map, or cache sheet.

I think you'll find experienced cachers going out for a day's caching without his GPS. Took a banana instead.

 

Well they are both yellow he said!!

[Harry_Bristol_UK]

I cannot believe that a geocacher would go out without a pen or two.

I have this really awful habit of leaving my pen or pencil in a cache that doesn't have one!!!! I think I will put a pen on a chain and wear it around my neck.

I purchased a load of "neck pens" (pens with string to hang around your neck) on Ebay and have been putting these in caches. I thought they were a really appropriate swap, looks like I might have been right

[+Alibags]

I think you'll find experienced cachers going out for a day's caching without his GPS. Took a banana instead.

 

Well they are both yellow he said!!

surely the banana was for training his pupil?

[+Sensei TSKC]

I think you'll find experienced cachers going out for a day's caching without his GPS. Took a banana instead.

 

Well they are both yellow he said!!

surely the banana was for training his pupil?

If it was, I didn't get any of it!

 

However, I was treated to sausage and chips. It must have worked though. Another couple of caches coming out soon and one is a tribute for SP.

 

Watch a space - somewhere.......

[+Wadders]

Not signed ---not a find!!

Forgot my pen once, plenty of thorns about though .....pricked finger used stylus and signed it in blood!!!!

 

Now thats a real cacher for you

[+Snosrap]

Did a cache yesterday (CGNC5Y) that didn't contain a pen or pencil. Two previous cachers didn't bring their own but both managed to leave a mark.

 

The first somehow managed to stamp a smiley face in the log.

 

The second really showed some initiative: they used one of the swaps (a hotel room sewing kit) to sew their name into the log sheet! Ingenious.

 

So I still say "no excuses!"

 

(Well done Huge!! )

[Andys101 & Redfrock]

at risk of being flamed here, I feel really strongly that I need to comment, having read through this thread last night and again today.

 

I geocache because I love it, because it is fun and because it is darned good exercise. I appreciate all the hard work cache-owners go do because without them caching would not exist.

 

HOWEVER I do feel that there is a risk that with some of the attitudes I have read today - almost militant in their views and tone - there runs the risk of the fun element being removed. It is afterall, as some peple have alredy said, only a game.

 

Sometimes, when I have done more than one cache in a day, I go to sign the log of the second or third of the day, only to find I have left my pen in the previous one and because the new one is a micro or because somebody has innocently taken the pen by mistake (we have all done it in all sorts of situations - not just caching) - I can't log my find in the book. I went to one recently where there was nowhere left to sign at all - not even a milimetre. I will always leave my calling card where possible - even in some micros - but if I have found it, I have found it, and that's that. I still log it as a find. I know we have found it. My husband knows we have found it. PLease do not suck the fun and innocence out of this. It is one of the few things in life at the moment that still has these elements. There will always be fraudsters in every walk of life - they are only kidding themselves at the end of the day - don't let them reflect on us who simply didn't have a means to write in the log.

 

Currently the militancy I have alreay referred to has taken some of the shine out of caching for me and I am disapointed to come across such attitudes

 

Hope my long winded garble makes sense!!

[Hugh Janus]

Well said Andys101 & Miss Redfrock

[+Snosrap]

It is only a game kids.

 

Whether a log is valid or not is up to the cache owner and NO ONE ELSE.

 

If your logs are accepted - great. If not - tough; get on with life.

 

I have my views; some deeply held, some not. Here's a clue: if you see this sign: , or this sign: , or this sign: ; then you shouldn't get too excited.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Snosrap

[+alma]

at risk of being flamed here, I feel really strongly that I need to comment, having read through this thread last night and again today.

 

I geocache because I love it, because it is fun and because it is darned good exercise. I appreciate all the hard work cache-owners go do because without them caching would not exist.

 

HOWEVER I do feel that there is a risk that with some of the attitudes I have read today - almost militant in their views and tone - there runs the risk of the fun element being removed. It is afterall, as some peple have alredy said, only a game.

 

Sometimes, when I have done more than one cache in a day, I go to sign the log of the second or third of the day, only to find I have left my pen in the previous one and because the new one is a micro or because somebody has innocently taken the pen by mistake (we have all done it in all sorts of situations - not just caching) - I can't log my find in the book. I went to one recently where there was nowhere left to sign at all - not even a milimetre. I will always leave my calling card where possible - even in some micros - but if I have found it, I have found it, and that's that. I still log it as a find. I know we have found it. My husband knows we have found it. PLease do not suck the fun and innocence out of this. It is one of the few things in life at the moment that still has these elements. There will always be fraudsters in every walk of life - they are only kidding themselves at the end of the day - don't let them reflect on us who simply didn't have a means to write in the log.

 

Currently the militancy I have alreay referred to has taken some of the shine out of caching for me and I am disapointed to come across such attitudes

 

Hope my long winded garble makes sense!!

one of the best comments i have read on the forum for a long time well said i agree with all you say we need to close this topic i think and just get on with it

[+BountyHunter1]

I did a cache about a month ago in derbyshire, it was a slog of 250 to 300 feet up a steep bank, when i got to the cache there was no pen in the box so i couldnt sign the log but there was however a camera so i described the cache and its contents to the owner and took a piccy of myself.

[+derrylynne]

A very good common sense reply Andys101 & Miss Redfrock. We agree fully with you, as you say, it's only a game, and there will always be cheaters, but at the end of the day, they only cheat themselves....

[davester]

My two penneth.....

 

First. If a cache does require wading through waist high nettles to reach, it's obviously in a crap location. Being quite severely allergic to nettles I would have been handsomely pee-ed off if I'd got to a cache and found it in that sort of location. If I was the finder I would have asked for the cache to be archived.

 

Second. If I owned the cache, it wouldn't bother me if someone claimed a find if they hadn't even been out of their arm chair. After all, it's their choice how they play the game and it's not my fault if they want to have that sort of experience in their geocaching, is it?

[+Pharisee]

First. If a cache does require wading through waist high nettles to reach, it's obviously in a crap location.

 

Not necessarily so... When a cache is set in Autumn or Winter there may not be a lot of indication as to how the Summer undergrowth will develop. A perfectly good location in Winter may well be surrounded by nettles in the Summer.

 

If I was the finder I would have asked for the cache to be archived.

 

Hmmm..... If you want every cache surrounded by nettles archived, then kiss goodbye to half the caches in the country!!!.

I hope our illustrious Reviewers would need a little more reason to archive a cache than just because you're allergic to the cache location (however unfortunate that may be).

 

If I owned the cache, it wouldn't bother me if someone claimed a find if they hadn't even been out of their arm chair. After all, it's their choice how they play the game and it's not my fault if they want to have that sort of experience in their geocaching, is it?

 

On that point, I'm in total agreement with you... I couldn't care tuppence if someone falsely claims a find... There's no prizes or kudos for having the 'most logged' cache.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Pharisee

[Sparticus]

Had an email today from someone who went to find a cache of mine , but wasn't able to sign the logbook as it wasn't there.

 

Well I say. No sign no find

 

I told him to log it and I would go and check the cache. He did see some spooky goings on though.

 

Not sure if I want to go back and check on the cache after what he told me.

 

But, I'll leave that for another thread.

[+Alibags]

Ooh, is that your cache at the spooky haunted church? I will look out for the new thread with enthusiasm

[+derrylynne]

Come on Sparticus. You have us all gagging to know what spooked you now. Tell all we say. lol

[lakeuk]

Well tonight I had a situation where I was unable to sign the log book for the following cache :-

 

GCPNQG 'Lilian's Lookout'

 

This cache was newly placed today but no pen/pencil was available with the cache when I found it to sign the log so I took a photo of the cache and included it on my found log as evidence of finding the cache.

 

So in my situation would you still expected the log to be signed by me in some way?

[+Stuey]

I had a similar situation earlier this year.... MUD was the solution (fingerprint and a photo).

[nobby.nobbs]

now all these other examples are fine by me, photos, smudge marks etc etc show initiative. the original one was the fact that the cacher in question found the rough location but didn't even touch the container, if i remember rightly. so all the others are logs and the original is not.

 

he never found the thing!

[+Kitty Hawk]

at risk of being flamed here, I feel really strongly that I need to comment, having read through this thread last night and again today.

 

I geocache because I love it, because it is fun and because it is darned good exercise. I appreciate all the hard work cache-owners go do because without them caching would not exist.

 

HOWEVER I do feel that there is a risk that with some of the attitudes I have read today - almost militant in their views and tone - there runs the risk of the fun element being removed. It is afterall, as some peple have alredy said, only a game.

 

Sometimes, when I have done more than one cache in a day, I go to sign the log of the second or third of the day, only to find I have left my pen in the previous one and because the new one is a micro or because somebody has innocently taken the pen by mistake (we have all done it in all sorts of situations - not just caching) - I can't log my find in the book. I went to one recently where there was nowhere left to sign at all - not even a milimetre. I will always leave my calling card where possible - even in some micros - but if I have found it, I have found it, and that's that. I still log it as a find. I know we have found it. My husband knows we have found it. PLease do not suck the fun and innocence out of this. It is one of the few things in life at the moment that still has these elements. There will always be fraudsters in every walk of life - they are only kidding themselves at the end of the day - don't let them reflect on us who simply didn't have a means to write in the log.

 

Currently the militancy I have alreay referred to has taken some of the shine out of caching for me and I am disapointed to come across such attitudes

 

Hope my long winded garble makes sense!!

Don't let it worry you, these threads can sometimes get a bit like that. I do agree though, I had the same experience where the initial 'niceness' of the game became tarnished after reading a pretty opinionated thread. It came as quite a "surprise".

 

There are half a dozen topics that reveal 'militancy' and crop up occasionally. Often the stronger voices in one thread are the voices of moderation is another so it evens out in the end, but everyone has opinions and occasionally the strong ones get aired, for instance:

 

I like Nettles, ooh, that tingling sensation after a long walk down a nettly path with shorts and sandals on...

Edited July 13, 2005 by Kitty Hawk

[Sparticus]

Ooh, is that your cache at the spooky haunted church? I will look out for the new thread with enthusiasm

It is indeed my spooky church alibags.

 

Not going into detail here as it is off thread, Suffice to say they saw my 'man' near the church. they also saw a man whilst inside the church. If you know the location you'll understand there are no hiding places to escape to.

 

So who were they?!!!