Cds As Swag

[Fantastic_Four]

Wonder what the general consensus is concerning using Cds as swag items.

 

These could be as simple as a song collection reflecting your tastes or as complex as, perhaps, an mpeg video of you and your team talking about what got you in to Geocaching and maybe even a video of one of your cache hunts (carefully edited so as not to spoil it for someone).

 

Just curious. Trying to come up with something that's a little different.

 

TTFN

 

Fantastic Four

[+jeff35080]

Copyright issues?

[+Yamahammer]

I'm pretty sure I've run across this topic before. Something about a CD cache. Take one, leave one. I don't think there was a question if they were copied or if they were original. I'm thinking they had some kind of theme, Blues, Jazz, something like that. ... I personally don't have a problem with it. It's your cache. You git it approved and you're off!!!

 

[+StarBrand]

As long as the music is original cds and not copies or personal mixes it is ok - numerous such caches exist. Respect copyrights.

[+GRANPA ALEX]

I like it fine . . . but, please - no WILLIE NELSON music (?).

 

I like the DVD cache I found, had nada to trade, but it was loaded with great stuff I had not seen but I had to walk away empty-handed.

 

GA

[+Team Tired Boy]

We leave a mix CD of one of our favorite song writers in most caches we find. I guess it's our signature item. But in our case we actually do have permission from the copyright owner.

[+joefrog]

As long as the music is original cds and not copies or personal mixes it is ok - numerous such caches exist. Respect copyrights.

Well, if I have a custom-mix CD in my car, and listen to it until I get tired of it... can't I leave it in a cache instead of throwing it away? Same thing, right?

[WH]

Music is the intellectual property of the artist. Giving out anything other than an original CD, is the same as stealing IMO.

[+Stunod]

As long as the music is original cds and not copies or personal mixes it is ok - numerous such caches exist. Respect copyrights.

Well, if I have a custom-mix CD in my car, and listen to it until I get tired of it... can't I leave it in a cache instead of throwing it away? Same thing, right?

As long as you include all the originals with that mix cd

[+Jhwk]

Recently did a cache here in the ozarks that had a bring one take one deal on old cd games. I took a bunch of my old kids games TNSL. So it can be done. Just depends on your level of comfort with "archival" copies... Me? I just wanted the games to go to a good home.

[+soreyes]

There is a ton of music avaialble on the Audio Archive that can be copied and distrubuted. Here is some information on the Taper Friendly bands:

EtreeWiki - Trade Friendly

 

And here is another nice big list of Creative Commons licensed content avaialable legally via Bittorrent -

LegalTorrents.com

[+Marcie/Eric]

As long as the music is original cds and not copies or personal mixes it is ok - numerous such caches exist. Respect copyrights.

Well, if I have a custom-mix CD in my car, and listen to it until I get tired of it... can't I leave it in a cache instead of throwing it away? Same thing, right?

[raving jerk mode: on]

Can I record music off of analog, satellite or internet radio and burn it? It's copyrighted too you know?

 

Actually, I could do good with a cache where I can peddle off original CDs. With the thousands of MP3's I have downloaded, ripped, burned and have available for such, I have no need for buying or retaining overpriced $20 pieces of plastic.

 

To joefrog: According to the copyright n*zi's above, the fact you burned and possess that mix CD is in itself felonious.

 

[raving jerk mode: off]

 

Sorry if i'm blunt, but I have no respect for the music industry.

[+joefrog]

To joefrog: According to the copyright n*zi's above, the fact you burned and possess that mix CD is in itself felonious.

Woo hoo! Not only am I famous, now I'm infamous!

[+Joypa]

Back to OP's question: No, I do not like CD's in caches and never pick them for trade. I suppose if I ever saw one I really liked I would pick it up but who is going to leave a copy of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon in a cache? (HINT)

[+geognerd]

Could the temperature extremes affect the "structural integrity" of the CD? I'm sure someone would be awfully PO'd if they picked up a CD that had been sitting in a cache all winter that had become brittle and later self-destructed in their CD player.

[+sbell111]

I feel another Mythbusters reference coming on.

[+Tidalflame]

Icenrye leaves VCDs of his Geocaching videozine in some caches. There's also a CD cache around here... haven't been to it yet, though.

[+TeamRJJO]

Our "signature" items are rare recordings of live shows by various artists. I have apretty large collection of live recordings from Rush, Genesis, U2, Pink Floyd, The Who, Grateful Dead, etc, etc. This seemed the perfect way to spread the music and marry two hobbies.

 

For those in Northern VA, I just placed a copy of U2 in Seattle on 4/24/05 in the "Spider-Man's Newington Adventure" cache. It's waiting for someone to give it a good home.....

 

I also second the recommendation to visit archive.org. I have literally d/l'ed hundreds of Grateful Dead shows from that site.

 

Peace,

TeamRJJO

[+RoyalRed]

Took my daughter out caching and she nabbed a CD game of building a roller coaster or something like that. Thought she was going bust her gut with how happy she was to get this. Saved me the $20-$40 to buy it for her. After that experience I would say CD's are fine. Had to pretty much empty our swag contents though to provide what we thought would be an even trade.

[+tls11823]

Could the temperature extremes affect the "structural integrity" of the CD? I'm sure someone would be awfully PO'd if they picked up a CD that had been sitting in a cache all winter that had become brittle and later self-destructed in their CD player.

Wow, that's a good question. I've been leaving DVDs (legal copies from the Wal*Mart bargain bin) in caches recently, thinking I was doing a good thing. I hope I don't end up inadvertently causing harm to somebody's DVD player.

 

So, what - did the Mythbusters do something on this?

[+Jamie Z]

I like it fine . . . but, please - no WILLIE NELSON music (?).

What!? Why not?

 

Jamie

[twjolson & Kay]

Could the temperature extremes affect the "structural integrity" of the CD?  I'm sure someone would be awfully PO'd if they picked up a CD that had been sitting in a cache all winter that had become brittle and later self-destructed in their CD player.

Wow, that's a good question. I've been leaving DVDs (legal copies from the Wal*Mart bargain bin) in caches recently, thinking I was doing a good thing. I hope I don't end up inadvertently causing harm to somebody's DVD player.

 

So, what - did the Mythbusters do something on this?

Yes they did, but the focus was on how fast to bust a CD. They did some things with tempature, but I don't think it affected the CD as much. I'll let you know after Sunday, they are having a Mythbusters marathon! I think it may weaken them, but for the speeds that DVD and CD players run at, it won't matter.

I think for all intents and purposes, as long as you don't have very hot or very cold weather, it will be fine. And if you get the disc after it's been very hot or very cold, give it time to reach room temperature slowly. I think a quick swing from 100+ degrees in a cache to room temp. would hurt the CD more then being in the heat alone. I'm not an expert though, so I could be wrong.

 

Music is the intellectual property of the artist. Giving out anything other than an original CD, is the same as stealing IMO.

 

From my understanding, as long as you own the original CD or song, you are allowed to make copies, for your own use. However once you give it away, then it becomes illegal. But I might be wrong, they passed some stricter laws recently (since the whole file sharing thing started) that might have made it illegal to make copies at all.

Edited June 30, 2005 by twjolson & Kay

[+EleriandBlade]

We had some game demo cds that were made specifically with geocaching in mind (because the game itself has something similar in it), dropped them in a few places, with notes on how to pass them on.

[+Crystal Sound]

I work in the music industry, but I am not involved in copyright law - so I'm not an expert at this... I do NOT own the copyright to any music, nor get any royalties from the sale of any media. I do not do any studio / recording work. I am primarily involved in "live" entertainment production. I have nothing to gain/lose concerning this topic.

 

Here's how I understand it, as someone who has to abide by the very same rules you all do:

 

If you bought the cd, tape, album, whatever - you are allowed to make copies for your own personal use. I.E. a compilation disc, a cd of an old album or tape, whatever. You can load a CD on your computer, or iPod.

 

As is similar to computer software, you cannot give copies of it to someone else to use, load the cd on someone else's ipod, ect.

 

When you buy a CD or tape, or whatever, like software, you are not actually paying for the music!!!! People need to realize this. The music is the property of the artist, record company, or whoever owns the rights to it. (I.E. the COPYRIGHT). What you are paying for, aside from the $2 of materials, is a LICENSE for PERSONAL use of the material. You might notice on many cds, dvds ect, there is a statement that says that public performance, broadcast, copying, ect. is prohibited. (If you bought the CD and actually "owned" the music, how could anyone else do the same thing when 10,000+ copies were made?)

 

By the "rules", I cannot even play a CD as background music before a concert begins, unless I (or the promoter) has the license or other permission. (I have a selection of music I have been given authorization to play, either by the artist/owner of the music, or has been provided to me expressly for promotion purposes.)

 

One other tidbit: For those with MP3 players, who have loaded their entire CD collection onto it, and feel they dont need their CDs anymore. My advice: KEEP THE CDS - it is your only proof that you have acquired the music legally. I seriously doubt that the copyright police will knock on your door, but it's still a good idea. Besides, you might need the backup someday...

 

As I stated, this is how I understand the rules to be. I've heard rumors and talk about variations, but when I was in "audio school" this was the basics that I learned. There's more to it than what I've stated (simplified), but that the gist of it.

 

In short: Placing copies in a cache probably isnt a good idea - unless you have ownership (you wrote it) or otherwise have permission. A manufactured copy is likely fine.

 

(Edited for typos.)

Edited June 30, 2005 by Crystal Sound

[+TeamRJJO]

Crystal Sound's post is correct as it pertains to copying official releases.

 

Trading original factory-pressed CDs is perfectly legal, as is making copies of material over which artists/record companies have not chosen to excercise copyright. This would include live performances by "trade friendly" or "taper friendly" artists such as the Grateful Dead.

 

So there is nothing suspect about any of the CD exchange caches out there. Compilation discs of officially released material are technically not legal, but since no money is changing hands, and we're talking about such small numbers of discs, I doubt anyone is going to get in a twist over using these as swag.

 

Peace,

TeamRJJO

[+geognerd]

I think it may weaken them, but for the speeds that DVD and CD players run at, it won't matter. I think for all intents and purposes, as long as you don't have very hot or very cold weather, it will be fine. And if you get the disc after it's been very hot or very cold, give it time to reach room temperature slowly. I think a quick swing from 100+ degrees in a cache to room temp. would hurt the CD more then being in the heat alone. I'm not an expert though, so I could be wrong.

I'm a big MythBusters fan, and am embarrassed to have forgotten about the CD test. Thanks for jogging my memory. I know they microwaved CDs, but I don't think they froze any. The freeze is of interest to me, being in Chicago. I remember they had to spin the CDs to a crazy RPM to get them to start warping. I'm pretty sure CD players and DVD players run slower than the 52X CD-ROM drives in computers. When listening to and ripping CDs on my computer, I can tell just from the sound that the drive isn't running at full speed. And I don't think the MythBusters got their "normally-aspirated" CD-ROM drive to break any CDs. I think the rule of thumb in this case is to let the CD from a cache warm or cool to room temperature before using.

[+fly46]

Compilation discs of officially released material are technically not legal, but since no money is changing hands, and we're talking about such small numbers of discs, I doubt anyone is going to get in a twist over using these as swag.

Or, another way to say what you just said: So long as you don't break the law frequently, it's all good.

 

Burnt copies are illegal. So why make them? If you really want to use CDs that bad, go to GoodWill or your local used CD place and buy a bunch for a couple bucks each and let that be that. Or trade discs that you don't particularly want to keep anymore.

[+TeamRJJO]

Or, another way to say what you just said: So long as you don't break the law frequently, it's all good.

Just trying not to harsh out on any of my fellow geocachers. Yeah, compilation discs are not legal according to the letter of the law. Neither is going 1 MPH above the speed limit.

 

Do I think anyone from the RIAA is going to get pissed off over a couple of CDRs left in the woods? Not at all. So if someone enjoys making them and leaving them in caches I don't see a big problem.

 

Peace,

TeamRJJO

[+TeamRJJO]

I think it may weaken them, but for the speeds that DVD and CD players run at, it won't matter.  I think for all intents and purposes, as long as you don't have very hot or very cold weather, it will be fine. And if you get the disc after it's been very hot or very cold, give it time to reach room temperature slowly. I think a quick swing from 100+ degrees in a cache to room temp. would hurt the CD more then being in the heat alone. I'm not an expert though, so I could be wrong.

I'm a big MythBusters fan, and am embarrassed to have forgotten about the CD test. Thanks for jogging my memory. I know they microwaved CDs, but I don't think they froze any. The freeze is of interest to me, being in Chicago. I remember they had to spin the CDs to a crazy RPM to get them to start warping. I'm pretty sure CD players and DVD players run slower than the 52X CD-ROM drives in computers. When listening to and ripping CDs on my computer, I can tell just from the sound that the drive isn't running at full speed. And I don't think the MythBusters got their "normally-aspirated" CD-ROM drive to break any CDs. I think the rule of thumb in this case is to let the CD from a cache warm or cool to room temperature before using.

Guys,

 

Check out this link:

 

www.cdrfaq.org

 

These folks have done all sorts of environmental testing on CDs and CDRs. The main thing you have to worry about is the dye used in cheaper brands of CDRs going bad when exposed to extreme temperatures. If that happens, the CDR is rendered unreadable.

 

Peace,

TeamRJJO

[+Greymane]

Burnt copies are illegal. So why make them? If you really want to use CDs that bad, go to GoodWill or your local used CD place and buy a bunch for a couple bucks each and let that be that. Or trade discs that you don't particularly want to keep anymore.

To be more correct, burnt copies are NOT illegal. Giving them away IS illegal. Giving away purchased CDs is legal (provided you do not keep copies for yourself). It is the same as a second hand store selling used CDs, albums, etc.

 

(I personally thing it is a crock o' $%&^ that we care so much about a SMALL group of record execs who make billions of dollars while the artist and writer get pennies (and I do mean pennies) on the dollar for their efforts.)

 

Regarding the CDs, how many of you have left some CDs in your vehicle in the middle of winter? Have you had one explode in your drive yet? Having shipped thousands of CDs in my day, I have yet to have one explode after shipping regardless of where or when it is shipped. (Have had a couple crack due to poor handling, though.)

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

As long as the music is original cds and not copies or personal mixes it is ok - numerous such caches exist. Respect copyrights.

Well, if I have a custom-mix CD in my car, and listen to it until I get tired of it... can't I leave it in a cache instead of throwing it away? Same thing, right?

[raving jerk mode: on]

Can I record music off of analog, satellite or internet radio and burn it? It's copyrighted too you know?

 

Actually, I could do good with a cache where I can peddle off original CDs. With the thousands of MP3's I have downloaded, ripped, burned and have available for such, I have no need for buying or retaining overpriced $20 pieces of plastic.

 

To joefrog: According to the copyright n*zi's above, the fact you burned and possess that mix CD is in itself felonious.

 

[raving jerk mode: off]

 

Sorry if i'm blunt, but I have no respect for the music industry.

So I take it you're one of those people who works for free? Surely you can't expect to be compensated for what you do when you don't want to compensate others for work THEY do...

[Fantastic_Four]

Ok, good info!

 

I think, if I go ahead with this idea, I'll make certain all material is either original or public domain.

 

Happy caching!!

[+joefrog]

To be more correct, burnt copies are NOT illegal. Giving them away IS illegal.

Well, that clears that up. I must've lost my CD near the cache, and somehow it ended up in it!

[+ohgr]

There are many bands that have donated or are ok with their live recordings being given away under the Creative Commons You can find a MASSIVE list of freely downloadable bootlegs on the Archive.org page HERE

 

You can also download and burn onto CD's or DVD's from a giant list of old movies that have fallen into the Public Domain that you can also find on Archive.org HERE

 

 

Free Movies, and Music without all the hassle of the MPAA, or the RIAA.

 

Have Fun!

 

Ohgr

[+DaveA]

Wonder what the general consensus is concerning using Cds as swag items.

 

On this forum there is no consensus on anything. Any position you state strongly will be met with resistance.

 

Ok, so about the swag item thing.

 

It depends whether you intend to place a cache stocked with certain items or whether you intend to trade items in someone else's cache with CDs.

 

If you make a CD only cache and you explicitly encourage trading of copyrighted material your cache is subject to being archived by the approvers. If you place burned CDs of copyrighted music in caches as a trade item some will be indignant, others will appreciatively snatch them up.

 

As for me my opinion is if you are going to burn CDs of copyrighted material have the common decency to burn them in MP3 rather than CDA format. I hate having to go through all the effort of converting my illegally obtained music to MP3s. The nerve of some people

[+LaPaglia]

Lets forget the Music industry and look at the Groundspeak Terms of Use.

 

You and not Groundspeak, are entirely responsible for all content that you upload, post or otherwise transmit via the Site. You agree not to:

 

(a) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, slanderous, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, embarrassing, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable to any other person or entity.

 

( Impersonate any person or entity, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with any person or entity.

 

© Upload, post or otherwise transmit any content that you do not have a right to transmit under any law or under contractual or fiduciary relationship.

 

(d) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other intellectual property or proprietary rights of any person, including without limitation under any privacy or publicity rights.

 

(e) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation.

 

(f) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any content that contains viruses or any other computer code, files or programs which interrupt, destroy, limit the functionality of, or cause damage to the Site or any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment.

 

(g) Disrupt the normal flow of dialogue or otherwise act in a manner that negatively affects other users' ability to engage in real time exchanges.

 

(h) Interfere with or disrupt the Site or servers or networks connected to the Site, or fail to comply with any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Site.

 

(i) Violate any applicable local, state, national or international law.

 

(j) "Stalk," harass, or otherwise harm another Site user.

 

(k) Collect or store personal data about other Site users.

 

(l) Promote or provide instructional information about illegal activities, promote physical harm or injury against any group or individual.

 

 

So it really doesnt matter if you like the music industry or not. You can not place copies of copyrighted material in a cache.

Edited July 1, 2005 by LaPaglia

[+Team Tired Boy]

As for me my opinion is if you are going to burn CDs of copyrighted material have the common decency to burn them in MP3 rather than CDA format.

I disagree. There are lots of CD players out there that won't play mp3s. I want to make sure everyone who picks up the CDs I leave can play them, so I actually convert them from mp3 prior to burning them.