+BlueDeuce Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 It's a silly rule and I am not obligated to follow a silly rule. That's who I think I am. So let's quit using 'following cache rules' as if they apply to the handling of TBs. They are two different animals.
CoyoteRed Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) Actually, if I don't like your rule regarding travel bugs I will simply ignore it. You have control over your cache to delete my find but there ain't much you can do if I choose to take a bug without leaving one. Whatever flips your switch.............Rude behavior by others can't be controlled. First, who said it was rude to respect the TB owner's wishes over that of the hotel owner? Who has more rights, you or the TB owner? Is the cache for TBs or is it meant to be a convenient place to bag one? Second, there is absolutely no way to enforce the rule anyway. So why have it? Third, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having an empty hotel. The hotel is for the Travel Bug, not someone who wants to move one along. Fourth, the "should leave one TB in the cache" concept is baffling to me as well. If you can't help the TB along it's path then it's no different than there not being one in there at all. Fifth, what happens when someone needs to drop a TB and can't move another one along? Does the Take 1 Leave 1 rule mean he can't drop it? It's obvious there are differing attitudes on what a TB hotel is for. Thing is, one train of thought isn't even enforcable and the other, well, there's nothing to enforce. The Take 1 Leave 1 rule is not fair for the TB and its owner. Nor is it fair to those who could move it along, but don't have a TB to leave or want to take one if dropping off. The Take 1 Leave 1 rule becomes less about the TB and more about the hotel owner. ...and, quite frankly, I think that's rude. Edited June 28, 2005 by CoyoteRed
+StarBrand Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I say it is rude. (you disagree) Go back and read my posts - I do not advocate a trade 1 for 1 rule. I simply ask that you be respectful of the next visitor and leave something for him/her to find. No more than that. You think I am wrong and haved chucked a few rocks at me for saying it. Fine. (more talk of rights - where is the Travel Bug Constitution written anyway??)
CoyoteRed Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I was kind of wrapping the whole thread up in one fell swoop. I apologize if it appears I've put words into your mouth.
Mushtang Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Second, there is absolutely no way to enforce the rule anyway. So why have it? Should that be the case for the other unenforcable geocaching rules and guidelines, or just the T1L1 rule for TB hotels?
+BlueDeuce Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I say it is rude. (you disagree) Go back and read my posts - I do not advocate a trade 1 for 1 rule. I simply ask that you be respectful of the next visitor and leave something for him/her to find. No more than that. You think I am wrong and haved chucked a few rocks at me for saying it. Fine. (more talk of rights - where is the Travel Bug Constitution written anyway??) QUOTE (cottonmouth @ Oct 9 2004, 04:46 PM) It´s always weighing hogging all the fun versus letting the TB sit there forever. There is no way that is always right. If there is any doubt, the person who served the TB owner´s interest did the right thing.
ju66l3r Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 There is a history to the TB that has gotten lost in this mix (probably because they now have a $5 price tag attached to the name). The idea behind the TB isn't just to goal it on its way. It is to track a traded item from cache to cache. That idea doesn't give some sort of "ownership" to the first person to hide the trackable number piggy-backing on the item. It's only different from every other item in the box in that it has a number written on it. So, in this historical context, the idea that you would empty someone's cache of all their tradeable items simply because you thought they'd been there long enough is ignorant of the principles of the game ("take something, leave something", "trade up", etc). Of course, all of this runs afoul of the current atmosphere of "ownership" and "entitlement". It's *his* cache...it's *her* TB....it's *their* item. Funny, when I bought the tag, I had simply assumed I was putting $5 into the entire community so that anyone wanting to see what happens with the keychain could do so. It wasn't an investment. If it disappeared one day, I'd understand. I left a keychain in tupperware in the woods. In doing so, I sent it onward to "whatever will be, will be" and out of my hands. I didn't ask for a no-cost leasing arrangement with everyone who runs into it. The same goes for the cache I put it into. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you don't feel obligated to abide by the request of "T1L1", then why should they feel obligated to abide by the request of everything that happens to a TB must only move it goalwise? It is just tupperware in the woods and that's their contribution to the entire community and to "own" that is hardly meaningful.
+treasure_hunter Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 If you go to a TBM and take a TB and leave nothing because you say the owner of the cache made up the rule "T1L1" then that would be like going to a Theme cache and taking something and leaving something off theme it doesnt make sense but I guess the owner made up those rules for the theme cache as well so I guess you dont have to abide by them so you do what you want. While we are banning TB Motels, lets go ahead and Ban Theme caches too!!!
+BlueDeuce Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 If you go to a TBM and take a TB and leave nothing because you say the owner of the cache made up the rule "T1L1" then that would be like going to a Theme cache and taking something and leaving something off theme it doesnt make sense but I guess the owner made up those rules for the theme cache as well so I guess you dont have to abide by them so you do what you want. While we are banning TB Motels, lets go ahead and Ban Theme caches too!!! Travel Bugs are not trade items.
WH Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 When I release a TB, I want it to travel as far and wide as possible. I don't want it stuck in some TB hotel not getting picked up because a person visiting doesnt have one to trade. If you want to place restrictions on TB's in your bug hotel, fill it with your own TB's but leave mine out of it.
+sept1c_tank Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Travel Bugs are not trade items. And perception is reality. This conversation has become very stale; it's time to jump on a different ban wagon!
+BlueDeuce Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) Travel Bugs are not trade items. And perception is reality. This conversation has become very stale; it's time to jump on a different ban wagon! nice turn of phrase! Apparently if I take a bug without leaving one, I'm capable of just about anything. Interesting justification for a hotel. Edited June 28, 2005 by BlueDeuce
+Yamahammer Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I'm going back to the original topic heading, "Let's Ban Travel Bug Hotels". I say, nope. It's just a theme for the most part. The TB police won't get after you if you do something totally crazy. It's up the owner of the cache to maintain it. Anyone can just log TNLNSL. Take one or leave one or don't. ... This like a room full of 12 year olds.
WH Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 This like a room full of 12 year olds. Ahhhh.....to be 12 again.
+sbell111 Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) Does anyone else wonder why this thread isn't over in the 'Travel Bug' area? A quick look at similar threads over there found that many people think that the T1L1 'rule' is to be ignored. Edited June 28, 2005 by sbell111
+Thot Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Just for the record, unless I missed someone: With a single exception, everybody in this thread who supports T1L1 or thinks it’s OK has no or only one travel bug, or runs a T1L1 hotel. Everybody else opposes them.
+mtn-man Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 This topic is not really about TBugs themselves, but rather about the Travel Bug hotels, which are caches. Since it is about caches I have left it in the Geocaching Topics area. You don't have to trade TBugs to find and log a TBug hotel cache.
+sbell111 Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) You're right, of course. In reality, however, the thread has morphed into whether it is appropriate for a cache owner to make rules regarding trading travel bugs, which seems like an issue for the other area. You are the man with the power (and responsibility), so I cede to your authority. Edited June 28, 2005 by sbell111
Mvillian Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I think a tb hotel is a great thing as long as you have no rules and a location that sees a lot of traffic I have a "Lodge" GCJPD8 I to will retrieve a TB that wears out its welcome! but they come and go pretty quick...BAN THEM??? I think NOT!
+tozainamboku Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 We have a couple of those locally and I'm happy to leave a bug in one of those. Others seem like the TB la Brea tarpits. Team Perks live just a stones throw from the La Brea Tarpits. Maybe this is a idea for a cache.
Jeremy Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Generally I don't like them for the prime reason ChiliHead pointed out - 1 cache with many bugs = Bad Idea. However there are some well executed ones that take this into consideration. I definitely do not like the 1 for 1 rule since the goal is to move the Travel Bugs around, not be forced to find another one to trade it out. The original objective was to create a cache near an airport so folks on their way out of town could pick it up and fly it to another cache near its goal. So the idea was to help move the Travel Bug faster. Artifical rules just make the bugs sit in a cache for far too long. Remember folks - the first part of Travel Bug is Travel - not Trade. I'd rather make a rule that you shouldn't pick one up if you don't plan on helping the bug complete its goal. But that's just common sense.
+treasure_hunter Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Only the folks at Groundspeak have the right to ban TB Motels, and you would have to come up with a better reason to ban them than "I dont like it when the owner says "T1L1"" "My TB has been in there too long"
+AuntieWeasel Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 We have a couple of those locally and I'm happy to leave a bug in one of those. Others seem like the TB la Brea tarpits. Team Perks live just a stones throw from the La Brea Tarpits. Maybe this is a idea for a cache. Shoot, if there's not SOME sort of cache near la Brea, there sure ought to be!
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