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Let's Ban Travel Bug Hotels


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I just don't understand travel bug hotels. It seems the only point to them is to serve as a place for bugs to sit and wait, or get lost. It seems like the hotels I've seen have bugs sitting in them much longer than they would be sitting if in a non-hotel cache.

 

Most also have rules that you can't take a bug w/o leaving one. Well that's a sure way to make sure bugs sit around for a while. I don't always have a bug with me while caching, so if I came across a bug that I could help on its mission, I couldn't take it (if I followed the rules).

 

I cringe whenever I see one of my bugs dropped in a hotel. Yup - it will be sitting there a while!

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I have a travel bug resort, and it has no stupid "take one, leave one rules."

When bugs sits there too long, I make trips to the cache to swap then out.

 

I guess I don't fit your lame stereotype. :anicute:

Edited by Kit Fox
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The word "ban" gives me an itch between my shoulder blades, but I'm not a great fan of the TB hotel, either. Some of them are extraordinarily well maintained by their owners, who live nearby and check on them often. We have a couple of those locally and I'm happy to leave a bug in one of those. Others seem like the TB la Brea tarpits.

 

If it has rules, I'm unlikely to leave a bug to its mercies.

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I've found 2 TB "hotels" in the last two days, neither had TBs in them. So much for your theory :anicute:

 

Guess it all depends on the cache. I've found some that were loaded with TBs, and others like those two, with none. Folks get sensitive about their TBs, and rightfully so, but I don't agree with banning them. Just need to hope people learn to move them along. I like Kit Fox's suggestion that the owner move them if they've been sitting too long.

 

:blink:

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There is one near me that is down a dead-end road almost five miles off a secondary highway. The owner has gone AWOL from Geocaching so any TBs that end up in that cache stay there and stay there and stay there. :anicute:

 

The other evening I drove down there and rescued three to take to an event. Two of the bugs had been in the cache since last October and one had been there since March, which was the last time anyone visited the cache.

 

I did drop off a bug I had acquired recently, but I'll have to rescue it if no one visits the cache in a month or so.

 

I like the idea of a "no rules" TB Hotel, but they have to be placed where people can easily pick up and drop off bugs.

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Travel Bugs are the property of the bug owner NOT the cache owner. I ignore the take one - leave one rule. If I can help the bug along and I don't have one to trade, too freakin bad for the cache owner.

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I couldn't agree more. I've seen far too many hotels with missing bugs listed in them. What's even worse is when the owner collects a bunch and puts them all in their cache... I found one with 6 bugs, all with no specific goal, so I took them all and got reamed out by the cache owner. I bet if I hadn't taken them 3 would still be there, 2 would get moved and at least 1 would go missing.

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I like the idea of a "no rules" TB Hotel, but they have to be placed where people can easily pick up and drop off bugs.

Initially, I think that was the point of hotels. Then, cache owners with self-esteem issues started adding stupid rules, trying to bolster their ego by seeing how many travel bugs they could trap in their cache.

 

We have a couple around here, one's just off an interstate exit and the other is within eyesight of the owner's house. Neither have stupid rules, and both seem to have a fair number of bugs pass through them, and rarely seem to have bugs stalled in them for very long.

 

Personally, I think that a travel bug hotel is only working properly when it seems like there's never a bug in it, yet when you check the "bug history" lots of bugs have passed through it.

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Most also have rules that you can't take a bug w/o leaving one.

Those rules simply don't count.

 

As has already been said, the hitchhiker is the property of the owner and they alone give it a goal. (Unless otherwise stated.) A hitch hiker is not a regular trade item. Personally, I don't even consider it a trade item at all. We don't trade for them, i.e. leave something in return for taking a HH, nor do we take something when we drop one off. While though it's part of the game, it is seperate from the trading of trinkets.

 

So whenever we come across a TB hotel, if there are bugs we can move on, we move'em. Period. Regardless of "cache rules."

 

Now, while I question the wisdom of placing an hotel in a remote location, I can see how hotels placed along well traveled routes, especially at crossroads and hubs, can be very benefitial to the movement of the bug, an asset to the owner, and a convenience to the person helping the bug along.

 

I was going to place an hotel, but someone else saw the need as well and did it for me.

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I just don't understand travel bug hotels.  <snip>

 

Most also have rules that you can't take a bug w/o leaving one.  Well that's a sure way to make sure bugs sit around for a while.  <snip>

 

I cringe whenever I see one of my bugs dropped in a hotel.  Yup - it will be sitting there a while!

I agree 100% about the take-one leave-one caches. My bugs carry these words on their tag and their webpage:

 

Please don’t put me in a travel bug "hotel," "depot" or "resort" that requires you leave a bug if you take a bug. Sometimes they're more prisons than a hotels

I agree with CoyoteRed that travel but exchange caches along well traveled routes are a good idea -- assuming they don't have any kind of take one, leave one rule.

 

Maybe I read him wrong but it seemed like he's saying that having caches with such rules didn’t matter because the rule wasn’t binding on anyone and he didn’t honor it. The problem is many if not most people do. Even the OP who opposes caches with these rules honors them. Maybe he won’t after this thread but it shows lots of people do. I think they should be outlawed. A bug owner cannot prevent people putting their bugs in these caches (mine are put in them in spite of my statements not to) and it shouldn’t be the prerogative of a cache owner to trap my bug.

Edited by Thot
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If it has a trade rule, its a TB jail, not a hotel.

It seems that way. That's why I usually IGNORE a rule that exerts control over someone else's property.

 

All my TB hotels say something like this:

 

There are no rules for this TB Hotel, because I don't want it to become a TB Prison.

Trade bugs, take bugs, count coup, or just leave bugs. It's all kosher. Try to place NEW arrivals on the bottom to help rotate the inventory.

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While we're banning things, let's ban threads about banning things. Someone's milk gets sour and they want everyone else to get outta the pool. I just don't get that. :rolleyes:

 

Also, can admin move this topic over to the "Whining and unrealistic expectation Forum?" You know, the TB forum.

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I happen to have a fairly busy TB hotel located at a rest area just off the freeway.

 

I don't have any rules at all.... more like guidelines:

 

If you take a Travel Bug, Please try to leave one. However, if you can help a bug on it's journey, it's OK to just stop by and pick up one without leaving one. And of course it's OK just to drop one off without taking another one.

 

Please do not take ALL the travel bugs. It's OK to take more than one if you can genuinely help them toward fulfilling their goal, but try to let everyone have a chance to participate.

 

Unless the bug's goal is attached, please try to remember write it's goal in the log book so people can decide which bug to take.

 

PLEASE REMEMBER TO LOG ALL BUG TRANSACTIONS IN THE LOG BOOK AND ON THE WEB PAGE.

 

Please only take a Travel Bug if you can help it on it's goal. Remember, if you have held a bug for more than a couple weeks, you have held it to long!

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Hi All; We placed a TB Hotel last year and it has been a great stop over for TB's during their travels. Over a 100 visits so far and NO RULES uther than no trade items because of the interior furnature in the Hotel. I do keep a watch on the guests and if one over stays we move it along to another cache that will get it moving again. Did just that today at the request of the bug owner. We have had a lot of fun with the Hotel and that is what this is all about right?. Please check it out. The Thorp 5 star T.B. Hotel along the freeway at Thorp exit. Easy to get to and drop off TB's. To ban T.B. hotels just because of some that don't work seems to be a little extream. See you all out there sometime.

You can't get lost if you don't care where you are.

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My favorite was the new bug hotel that was miles from any highway or commonly traveled road. The container was 3"x4"x1", barely large enough for the log book. It also had a "take one, leave one" rule and yet the hotel owner didn't put a TB in it to start with. It was empty except for a log book.

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I'm not crazy about them because when they get plundered a whole lot of TB's go bye-bye.

Now this makes the most sense so far. Being new to this I'm with the camp that the TB owner's wishes trump the cache owner's wishes but that's just me.

 

Mike

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Maybe I read him wrong but it seemed like he's saying that having caches with such rules didn’t matter because the rule wasn’t binding on anyone and he didn’t honor it. The problem is many if not most people do.

That's unfortunate.

 

But I can see how a lot of folks will think that. It probably falls back to the "Cache Owner is King and Must Do as He Says" mentality. The Even TB Exchange Rule is just like "dumb additional logging requirements or I'll delete your log" types. Hey, I found it and maybe I don't want to dance The Funky Chicken.

 

The reason I don't follow the ETBER is because it's not fair to the inhabitants and their owners.

 

Sitting here thinking about it the ETBER is probably about trying to have TBs in the cache when someone finds it. If that's the case then the purpose of the hotel is not for the convenience of the those who move TBs along but as an attraction to get folks to hunt the cache. In other words, it about the cache and the cache owner, and not about moving TB along.

 

When you have a large, well hidden cache near a major traveling hub which has no ETBER then you truly have a hotel that is for the TB, their owners, and those who move them along. There is nothing wrong with one being empty.

 

The only "rule" a TB hotel should have is the same one that applies to all caches, nothing more.

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In a way, I understand the need for TB Hotels. If you want to help a TB along on its journey, then there's a nice central place for you to find one. The ones closest to me are right along major highways, which makes them easy spots for people to pick one up and carry it along somewhere else.

 

There's one we're going to be passing on our way to the beach in a few weeks. When we find it, if it contains a TB that wants to visit the coast (it currently has TWO with that goal!) then I plan on taking one down to the coast with us. Some of the caches along the coast have TB's, and if there's one that would like to move inland (or that I think would be better-served by being closer to the interstate where this Hotel is) we'll pick it up and bring it back to the TB Hotel. I think that's the true spirit behind the "Don't take one unless you have one" rule. Help one along, and drop off something so someone else can help it reach its goal, too.

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I see. Those of you who would stand up to defend the rights of a hider to impose his own rules on his caches ("*must* rope down cliff to sign log or it's not a find", for example) will ignore your own arguments if the imposed rule ("T1L1") doesn't suit you.

 

Classic.

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When I come across a TB hotel with a take one leave one rule I will usually grab all the bugs and disperse them to area caches.

 

Cache owners who put restrictions on the movement of bugs out of their caches do nothing but hinder bug movement.

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I see. Those of you who would stand up to defend the rights of a hider to impose his own rules on his caches ("*must* rope down cliff to sign log or it's not a find", for example) will ignore your own arguments if the imposed rule ("T1L1") doesn't suit you.

 

Classic.

Cache owners have total control over how and under what circumstances you can log a find on their cache. The TB's, however, are the property of the bug owner and are not subject to whatever rule the cache owner feels like imposing.

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What's lame is when bug hotels are too close to each other. From where I am sitting right now, I am within 2.5 miles of two TB hotels. And they're both in the midst of suburbia. And I never drop TBs at those hotels because there is a cache 2 blocks from me that is so much more convenient, thus becoming a de-facto TB hotel for me.

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I see.  Those of you who would stand up to defend the rights of a hider to impose his own rules on his caches ("*must* rope down cliff to sign log or it's not a find", for example) will ignore your own arguments if the imposed rule ("T1L1") doesn't suit you.

 

Classic.

Cache owners have total control over how and under what circumstances you can log a find on their cache. The TB's, however, are the property of the bug owner and are not subject to whatever rule the cache owner feels like imposing.

Exactly.

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I see. Those of you who would stand up to defend the rights of a hider to impose his own rules on his caches ("*must* rope down cliff to sign log or it's not a find", for example) will ignore your own arguments if the imposed rule ("T1L1") doesn't suit you.

 

Classic.

I think you’re ignoring the point that this situation creates a condition where one person is usurping the rights of another. In the normal case of a cache owner and a cacher the cacher can choose to accept the rules of the owner or not do the cache. These caches are deliberately designed to attract bugs, and the bug owner has no way to prevent a cacher putting his bug in one of these traps. It’s sort of like what the law calls an “attractive nuisance.”

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I like the concept of them. However I agree with you about the requirement to leave one before you can help one along.

If they didnt have those rules then after a while of people coming, taking a TB, and leaving nothing there will be NO TB's in the cache. I dont understand if you just get mad when you find a Motel because you have no TB's to trade or what the problem is. I have been to motels before and had no TB's to trade, BIG deal I just sign and go on to the next cache. I recently hid a TB Motel and I would be very disappointed if someone took a TB from it and didnt leave one, being that I wrote on the cache page DO NOT take a TB if you have none to leave.

 

Thats just my opinion but I think that banning them is just nonsense! :rolleyes:

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Wow Angst!!

 

I have a tb motel, I check on it regularly, I move bugs that sit too long. I have rules there - including that you should be courteous and leave at least 1 bug for the next guy. I don't care if you take 6 and leave 1 or take 5 of the 6 and leave no new ones. Just be kind and make sure the next guy is going to find something there. I have seen bugs sit there for as much as 3 months but sometimes vists are 3 months apart.

 

It sits at a rest stop along I80.

 

This probably opens a can of worms but seriously folks - they are $3 dollar toys attached to a $5 tag that we leave out for random chance to move around. In that environment - don't assume you are helping out anybody by ignoring cache "rules" to suit your own idea of how things should be.

 

Some of my bugs have sat in caches for 6 months - all part of the travelers story to me. No need to whine about it.

 

You don't like the rules at my cache?? So don't visit it. Nobody compels you to do so.

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You don't like the rules at my cache?? So don't visit it. Nobody compels you to do so.

 

You can impose whatever logging requirement on your cache you wish. You do not have the right to impose any rules on the TB because you don't own it.

 

If you were to create a rule that one must drop off a TB to log a find, I would just grab a bug, post a note and be on my way.

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I'm not crazy about them because when they get plundered a whole lot of TB's go bye-bye.

Exactly!

 

It also does not help when the TB Hotel owner repeatedly takes TBs out of the surrounding caches to populate "their" hotel.

 

Supplying a larger cache container to ease the movement of TBs is one thing,

turning into a full time job and sticking restrictions on those who wish to take them is quite another! :rolleyes:

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Exactly my point - once released into the "wild" - owners of tbs are at the mercy of caches and cachers.

Basically you are saying that once a TB is released, it becomes property of the GC community.

 

If that's the case, no single member has the right to impose restrictions on them, even the owners of the caches they are currently located in.

Edited by WH
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If that's the case, no single member has the right to impose restrictions on them, even the owners of the caches they are currently located in.

Wow - your logic there is just well.....best left un-commented on.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Bottom line, I feel it to be unfair to go visit a tb motel and find it empty. Just trying to protect the next guy's experience. If that is wrong - go ahead and toss the rocks..........

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You know, the OP never considered the fact that some people put out TB hotels to ensure that there are full sized caches in the area that will hold a travel bug.

 

I just started one, and I don't give a toot if it's empty. The point of it is that if you go to it, a travel bug will fit inside so long as the cache isn't full.

 

My only rule for taking travel bugs? Don't take one if you can't help it on it's mission.

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When I come across a TB hotel with a take one leave one rule I will usually grab all the bugs and disperse them to area caches.

 

Cache owners who put restrictions on the movement of bugs out of their caches do nothing but hinder bug movement.

While I agree with you regarding the bugs being property of the bug owners and not the cache owner, taking ALL the bugs out of a TB hotel and leaving nothing for the next finder is rather selfish, IMO.

 

I'd be pretty dissapointed if I visited right after you and there were no bugs to trade. True, one could still log the cache as a find even if there are no bugs to trade, but I've visited TB hotels with the intent to trade as well as log the find, and have chosen the TB hotels over other caches with the assumption (hope?) that there will be TB's to trade.

 

You'd make your point about the take one leave one rule, but at other cachers' expense.

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. . taking ALL the bugs out of a TB hotel and leaving nothing for the next finder is rather selfish, IMO.

 

I'd be pretty dissapointed if I visited right after you and there were no bugs to trade. <snip>

 

You'd make your point about the take one leave one rule, but at other cachers' expense.

That's an extreme case. I wouldn't object to a rule something like:

 

Please don't take the last bug unless it's the only one there when you arrive.  Be considerate of others who will come after you hoping to find a travel bug. 
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IMO the only extra etiquette with TB Hotels is to log the bugs in and/or out of the cache (on-line) extremely quickly.

 

I've been disappointed to visit a TBH, specifically to pick up a particular bug, only to find it had been taken the day before. The remaining couple of bugs had missions with which I couldn't help. More rapid logging of the bug pickup would have warned me to wait until another occasion - this would also mitigate the problem of the Hotel being empty of bugs. You could still be unlucky and visit just a few minutes after the cache had been emptied - but that's life!

 

I'm totally against artificial "rules" about T1L1 etc. Extra rules undermine the experience and stifle initiative. It's just like those caches where you can find the box, sign the log, then discover that your entry on the cache page is going to be deleted unless you prove that you found the cache using the "official" method. Crêpe! :blink:

 

HH

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You don't like the rules at my cache?? So don't visit it. Nobody compels you to do so.

Actually, if I don't like your rule regarding travel bugs I will simply ignore it. You have control over your cache to delete my find but there ain't much you can do if I choose to take a bug without leaving one.

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Actually, if I don't like your rule regarding travel bugs I will simply ignore it. You have control over your cache to delete my find but there ain't much you can do if I choose to take a bug without leaving one.

Whatever flips your switch.............Rude behavior by others can't be controlled.

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For what it's worth: I am definitely not against TB hotels. I am against LAME TB hotels!

 

Elements of utter TB hotel lameness:

 

- Anything resembling "gotta have x number of bugs in the cache" rule (already nixed by Jeremy anyway)

- Owners who use the cache to hoard incoming bugs

- TB hotel stuck in some "Bee-eff Egypt" (respelled for politeness) type of location, i.e. too @#$! remote

- Container too small for bugs

- Container not hidden very well for how public the location is (these need extra-intelligent hides)

- Neglectful owners who do not boot missing bugs from the cache page on a regular basis (two weeks at the most)

 

Negotiably kinda semi-lame:

- Any "can't take one unless you leave one" rule

 

I am the proud owner of Portland, Oregon's airport TB hotel.

My goal is to have THE coolest TB hotel around... I hope that I've managed to get at least halfway there. :blink:

Edited by Sparrowhawk
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I see. Those of you who would stand up to defend the rights of a hider to impose his own rules on his caches ("*must* rope down cliff to sign log or it's not a find", for example) will ignore your own arguments if the imposed rule ("T1L1") doesn't suit you.

 

Classic.

It's all about owners rights. The catch is a cache owners rights ends where my Travel Bug begins. I don't care if they want me to have mandatory Nascar trade. I'll either comply or post a note instead of a find. I do care if someone can't help my TB on it's goal beause they could not meet a trade rule for a hotel.

 

On the flip side, if my TB's goal is to have photo taken at each cache he has just "Destroyed" and my instructions are to "Destroy the cache you just got the TB out of then take photo's" to log the bug. I've just stepped on the cache owners rights and my TB goals should be ignored.

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Actually, if I don't like your rule regarding travel bugs I will simply ignore it. You have control over your cache to delete my find but there ain't much you can do if I choose to take a bug without leaving one.

Whatever flips your switch.............Rude behavior by others can't be controlled.

I'll never claim otherwise, I'm just not sure why I am obligated to follow this made up rule. For the good of the community? pppppttttthh

 

edited pointless note

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Actually, if I don't like your rule regarding travel bugs I will simply ignore it. You have control over your cache to delete my find but there ain't much you can do if I choose to take a bug without leaving one.

Whatever flips your switch.............Rude behavior by others can't be controlled.

I'll never claim otherwise, I'm just not sure why I am obligated to follow this made up rule. For the good of the community? pppppttttthh

 

edited pointless note

Its the owners right to make this rule, its kind of like wiping after you use the restroom, its not a rule but its the right thing to do it just makes sense. Kind of like if you go to a TBM and take TB's and leave the next finder nothing to claim, its not right, its also like "Replace the cache exactly how you found it!" its not a GC enforced rule but owners put it on their cache pages does that mean that you will say huh.... I beleive I will hide it back over there because I dont have to abide by their rules. Who do you think you are when you go to a cache and break the rules the owner has set? Its nonsense just play the game the way it should be played and dont ruin it for everyone else because you dont like someones rules at their cache!

Edited by treasure_hunter
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