What Should Be Outlawed From A Cache?????

June 23, 2005

I'm sending my husband out to collect the partylite candles I have been leaving. That never even occured to me.

:Doh: I Love finding Partylite candles! Great Stash for Late fall & winter. Same with Crayons.. but if you have a good hiding spot for the cache (out of the sun and heat, they stay cool and in great shape. (Like some of the river caches, mtn caches & in the base of tree stumps.)

~Liss

2k · June 23, 2005

I once found a used plastic spoon...how cheesy is that?

I don't mind finding whatever in a cache, but it is nice to be "rewarded" with something decent to look at.

June 23, 2005

Sheessh........ If ya dont wanna trade for it then dont, just quit whinning about it and ignore what you find. If you arent gonna take it, then dont worry about it.

June 23, 2005

OK, of course over regulating the game is NOT a good thing.

This topic and the discussion are good, because they are in essence promoting self-regulation and maybe enlightening some. How can you tell people to stop ‘whining’ about a topic? Here is an idea, if you don’t like the topic or see its relevance then stop reading! People want to promote the game and make it better, nothing wrong with that. How frustrating is it to bring along someone who is showing interest in geocaching just to have them utterly disappointed and turned off by the trash left in the first, second and third caches they find with you. Why would anyone want to be involved in a sport/hobby whatever with the kind of people who would leave that trash in a cache (first timers impression). Discussion is a good thing, call it whining if you want, it may be at times, if you don’t enjoy it, then move along.

20.7k · June 23, 2005

I'm sending my husband out to collect the partylite candles I have been leaving. That never even occured to me.

Unscented candles or crayons are fine. Just put them inside a ziploc. That way, if they melt, they won't get all over everything.

June 23, 2005

I'd like to outlaw water. Not bottles of water, just plain old water. Whoever keeps leaving it in caches should know that its messing up the log books. Oh, and while I'm at it, spiders. Live spiders don't make good cache pets. If you're going to leave a cache pets, please stick with hampsters, or if the cache size permits, small dogs.

18.9k · June 23, 2005

....Same with Crayons.. but if you have a good hiding spot for the cache (out of the sun and heat, they stay cool and in great shape. (Like some of the river caches, mtn caches & in the base of tree stumps.)

~Liss

One of my caches has had the same pack of crayons in it for 3+ years. Clear plastic, south side of tree, hot sun. No evidence of melting yet. Been up to 100 in just the past few days.

This Cache

June 23, 2005

Sheessh........ If ya dont wanna trade for it then dont, just quit whinning about it and ignore what you find. If you arent gonna take it, then dont worry about it.

I agree. Telling people what to do and what not to do is bad, don't you think! :laughing:

June 23, 2005

...or if the cache size permits, small dogs.

Now see, what was I just saying about dog feces!? Even a small dog is going to have to go sometime! :laughing:

24.7k · June 23, 2005

....Same with Crayons.. but if you have a good hiding spot for the cache (out of the sun and heat, they stay cool and in great shape. (Like some of the river caches, mtn caches & in the base of tree stumps.)

~Liss

One of my caches has had the same pack of crayons in it for 3+ years. Clear plastic, south side of tree, hot sun. No evidence of melting yet. Been up to 100 in just the past few days.

This Cache

There must be something keeping the cache just cool enough. I've found enough candle slag to think was isn't a good idea. That's ignoring the scent that would attract animals that also make most candles a bad idea.

Edited June 23, 2005 by Renegade Knight

9.5k · June 24, 2005

>> Do You Have a Spot in Heaven? with a little checklist of things to do to get into heaven.<<

If I did, I sure as hell wouldn't by the time I was done burning the trash in the cache and replacing it with stuff people WANT to find.

~liss

One man's trash is another's treasure. What gives you the right to decide which is which? You might disagree with the pamphlet or the checklist, but it just might strike a chord with somebody else. As long as the contents and cache are in good shape, you are not my cache cop. Leave the contents alone if you don't feel like trading them.

9.5k · June 24, 2005

How frustrating is it to bring along someone who is showing interest in geocaching just to have them utterly disappointed and turned off by the trash left in the first, second and third caches they find with you.

Well considering you're new at the game, you're only slightly forgiven for not prepping your newbie to the possibilities. The responsibility of correct expectations land squarely on your shoulders. That's part of the self-accountability and education thing I spoke of earlier.

Bear in mind too, if you can't stand dissenting opinions, then you shouldn't be in the discussion either. I happen to agree with the "quit whining and get over it" aspect of this issue.

June 24, 2005

How frustrating is it to bring along someone who is showing interest in geocaching just to have them utterly disappointed and turned off by the trash left in the first, second and third caches they find with you.

Well considering you're new at the game, you're only slightly forgiven for not prepping your newbie to the possibilities. The responsibility of correct expectations land squarely on your shoulders. That's part of the self-accountability and education thing I spoke of earlier.

Bear in mind too, if you can't stand dissenting opinions, then you shouldn't be in the discussion either. I happen to agree with the "quit whining and get over it" aspect of this issue.

I am a newbie to . I have noticed that if there is nothing in the cache I find that appeals to me I just drop in the trade I brought with me or just sign the log with tnln and walk away happy that I found it and didnt have to log the cache as a did not find.

1k · June 24, 2005

I go for the log, the view, and the exercise. I took a horsey pencil from the first cache I found to commemorate the occasion and I haven't taken anything except an occasional TB since.

Yer not shoppin'! Yer cachin'!

STL, stash the cache and MOVE ON if ya don't like they goods its got to offer!

*Said with a smile*

June 24, 2005

Whining = discussion and expressing ones opinion? OK works for me. But in the same post you tell others to 'stop whining' are you not whining about others expressing an opinion? This topic has opened up thought and that is never wrong, of course I have told others who choose to come with me, 'hey there are losers who think it's cool to take and not give' and yes I love the hike and the new places, rather open a box to find nothing than crap and trash, and I will continue to express that opinion, newbie or not. If you don't like trash don't trade for it, fine, if you can say that then listen to this: if you don't like this thread or topic then move on, don't tell me not to discuss.

9.5k · June 24, 2005

Whining = discussion and expressing ones opinion? OK works for me.

You got it wrong. You advised the person if they didn't like the conversation, to move along all because they said to quit whining about it. That is an expressed opinion over what they think about the discussion.

But in the same post you tell others to 'stop whining' are you not whining about others expressing an opinion?

Again, wrong. I merely expressed agreement with him. That doesn't mean to stop discussing it. In actuality, I expressed education through organizational peer pressure as the correct method rather than making a list banning the blah blah.

'hey there are losers who think it's cool to take and not give' and yes I love the hike and the new places,

Name calling... what a unique way to introduce somebody to the sport. The problem i have with this is you're putting your spin and perspective over on top of somebody else's with no clue as to whether it was a youngster involved or not... an uneducated newbie or not. Did I mention organizational peer pressure to educate?

If you don't like trash don't trade for it, fine, if you can say that then listen to this: if you don't like this thread or topic then move on, don't tell me not to discuss.

Empty rhetoric. No where in my posts did I say do not discuss this, nor did I say I didn't like the discussion. I merely agreed with an opinion. You seem to have a problem with that which goes back to my earlier remark...

if you can't stand dissenting opinions, then you shouldn't be in the discussion

1k · June 24, 2005

No soup for YOU!

June 24, 2005

I personally don't care about what's in the cache, it's all about the hunt, quit you're whinning.

1k · June 24, 2005

I personally don't care about what's in the cache, it's all about the hunt, quit you're whinning.

Ditto!

(You can have soup!)

8.4k · June 24, 2005

CLASSIC!

The O.P.er has 17 finds and has been on the site all of a couple of weeks and wants to start making rules for the rest of us to follow.

I love it. They're gonna fit right in.

WELCOME!

Edited June 24, 2005 by Snoogans

24.7k · June 24, 2005

Is this a good trade item?

June 24, 2005

Marbles. whenever I go to a cache I find a few marbles. it would be ok if it was a whole set, but I only find a few. (2-4)

At first it seemed that there were a couple marbles in every cache I found. So I decided to start colleccting cache marbles, and see how many I can get. Since then, I have been finding hardly any. So if there's some things you find too often, trying looking for them, and then you won't find any!

Most toys are fine, but little plush toys and other cloth items often come out of the cache with the scent of Eau de Ammocan. Ick.

June 24, 2005

oh good lord. lets us express ourselves. I will discuss what ever I want to. who cares how many finds one has. trash in caches sucks! cry cry cry. I will not just ignore it and 'not trade' I will rant, rave or discuss as I please. and I will call people who leave trash in caches losers. fracking bullies

9.5k · June 24, 2005

fracking bullies

Try to talk reason and ya get called a bully. Or is that what happens when you lose the arguement... you resort to name calling. Of course... you are merely just expressing yourself even if not so eloquently.

Edited June 24, 2005 by TotemLake

June 24, 2005

June 24, 2005

How frustrating is it to bring along someone who is showing interest in geocaching just to have them utterly disappointed and turned off by the trash left in the first, second and third caches they find with you.

Well considering you're new at the game, you're only slightly forgiven for not prepping your newbie to the possibilities. The responsibility of correct expectations land squarely on your shoulders. That's part of the self-accountability and education thing I spoke of earlier.

Bear in mind too, if you can't stand dissenting opinions, then you shouldn't be in the discussion either. I happen to agree with the "quit whining and get over it" aspect of this issue.

I am a newbie to . I have noticed that if there is nothing in the cache I find that appeals to me I just drop in the trade I brought with me or just sign the log with tnln and walk away happy that I found it and didnt have to log the cache as a did not find.

+1

I have fun just finding caches and finding out about areas that I didn't know about before.

June 24, 2005

>> Do You Have a Spot in Heaven? with a little checklist of things to do to get into heaven.<<

If I did, I sure as hell wouldn't by the time I was done burning the trash in the cache and replacing it with stuff people WANT to find.

~liss

One man's trash is another's treasure. What gives you the right to decide which is which? You might disagree with the pamphlet or the checklist, but it just might strike a chord with somebody else. .

Caching isn't about Proselytizing. If someone can't cache without shoving their religion down someone else's throat, they're pretty sad people. If it's your sort of thing leave 1 Pamphlet,, which is respectful, not 30 of the fire-starters. Personally, I would be less offended to find a Dog Turd in a cache than I would be to find 30 or so religious pamphlets.

Edited June 24, 2005 by the 4 Chalupa's

9.5k · June 24, 2005

>> Do You Have a Spot in Heaven? with a little checklist of things to do to get into heaven.<<

If I did, I sure as hell wouldn't by the time I was done burning the trash in the cache and replacing it with stuff people WANT to find.

~liss

One man's trash is another's treasure. What gives you the right to decide which is which? You might disagree with the pamphlet or the checklist, but it just might strike a chord with somebody else. .

Caching isn't about Proselytizing. If someone can't cache without shoving their religion down someone else's throat, they're pretty sad people. If it's your sort of thing leave 1 Pamphlet,, which is respectful, not 30 of the fire-starters. Personally, I would be less offended to find a Dog Turd in a cache than I would be to find 30 or so religious pamphlets.

Caching is what you want it to be so long as it derives a pleasant time for yourself. You're still not my appointed cache cop. If the contents are in good condition, leave them be. There's nothing being "shoved down your throat" if you don't take it and grouse over it. I personally think it's sad you would rather see feces in a cache over a piece of paper with printing on it that you might disagree with.

June 24, 2005

LOL. Is this about losing and winning? It obviously is to you. How can one lose? It is debate and really all involved should 'win' from seeing other sides and being enlightened. Do you want to compare IQ's, writing skills, tenacity? How 'bout we discuss the topic or not discuss the topic.

Marbles: There is a PtoP cache near Idyllwild that is full of marbles, it's pretty cool.

Golf Balls: Seems some people like em for practice, come to think of it I like the brightly colored ones and would love to find one in a cache.

Business Cards: My vote is they suck.

Feces: Again my vote it sucks.

Religious Pamphlets: No way I go near that can of worms.

Candles: Traded for one and it's on my coffee table, but I can see the melting issue.

Toys: Does anyone really have a problem with toys? Anything broken is lame.

I recently found a cache with a cable TV wire; the log showed it had been there awhile, then again this was a pretty good 5-mile rt hike in a remote area. Maybe someone will treasure it.

Of course, I don't think any of this should be 'outlawed' (well maybe the poop, hazmat and all). Does anyone really think the OP intended to submit a list of items to be outlawed to the forces that be? Or that he expected if he did that the items on the list would then be up for some kind of review? How bout he or she wanted to open up a subject for discussion.

Edited June 24, 2005 by teamjack&birdie

June 24, 2005

Caching is what you want it to be so long as it derives a pleasant time for yourself. You're still not my appointed cache cop. If the contents are in good condition, leave them be. There's nothing being "shoved down your throat" if you don't take it and grouse over it. I personally think it's sad you would rather see feces in a cache over a piece of paper with printing on it that you might disagree with.

By this argument as long as you derived pleasure from it and it is in good condition and you don't stuff the cache with several copies then a satanic bible, political bumpersticker, sex-ed pamphlet, or nazi propaganda are also acceptable.

Okay obviously I'm being facetious, clearly NONE of these items are appropriate... including the dog turd (sorry guys... you're just going to have to stick with cat poo--according to my dog it tastes better anyway).

The most important point raised on all the geocaching.com pages that discuss this (that I've seen) is to use your common sense. Caching is supposed to be a good time, it's supposed to be fun, and it's not supposed to be a vehicle for politics, philosophy, advertising, religious idealogy, or anything else.

A guy goes off into the woods to get away from life for awhile and just enjoy the outdoors and in the height of his elation he cracks open the cache he just found to see a big fat bumpersticker that says "Democrat = Terrorist" or "The Religious Right is NEITHER". How about it--is he having a good time now? Or is there a fairly decent chance that now he's ticked off because he came all the way out here precisely to forget about all that stuff for awhile?

I've been trying to keep a lighthearted tone to this conversation but ultimately just use your common sense. Nobody is looking to be a cache cop, but clearly there are people out there who either don't know any better or aren't using their common sense. Naturally that's going to upset some people and they're going to gripe about it. I don't think they should be made to feel bad for griping by being tarred with the epithet "whiner". That's completely unconstructive--I mean if you think people are overreacting and you want to point that out to them use YOUR common sense. You aren't going to convince anyone by insulting them. How about:

All sorts of people cache, and some are newbies, some are children. That broken toy may be something the child who placed it there played with anyway. To him it might be a treasure. Sure sitckers peel, golf balls may be dirty, but the point is to have fun finding the cache IMHO... what is actually inside is less important, and in any event it's not supposed to be items of great value. My advice would be not to approach a cache with any expectations other than it will contain a logbook, then you won't be disappointed. Ultimately, my advice is not to let it bother you, and if you can't, consider what Ghandi said: You possess the power to be the change you would like to see in the world. Put into caches the sort of things you would like to see in there and teach by example.

Sure it's easier to say "Who are you to say what should go in a cache? Quit being a whiner." but it isn't going to make the other person see your point of view. It's just going to make them think you are not a nice person. In all likelihood it's going to make them stick to their own point of view all that much more strongly.

June 24, 2005

Well I must admit that so far most of the cache's we have found have been full of stuff that isn't worth getting excited about but then we weren't expecting to find a pot of gold. Mostly we just sign the log and that's it. We are in it more for the fun of finding it and getting some excercise.

I will have to say the items that are so big it makes closing the lid next to impossible should be left out. I don't see why a travel bug has to be the size of a dinner plate.

June 24, 2005

Thank you Dragon for that post, I liked what Ghandi said about geocaching :anitongue:

Also my dogs, Jack and Birdie, have been trying to get me to see that what they are trying to dig out of the litter box is 'Doggie Almond Rocha' and that I should just let them have a little. :anitongue: blach Our dogs would get along great it seems.

Edited June 24, 2005 by teamjack&birdie

June 24, 2005

Caching is supposed to be a good time, it's supposed to be fun, and it's not supposed to be a vehicle for politics, philosophy, advertising, religious idealogy, or anything else.

A guy goes off into the woods to get away from life for awhile and just enjoy the outdoors

Well Said, Thank You.

~Liss

June 24, 2005

So I thought that I had a great idea...I took a couple of those Star Wars toys from Burger King (and not the dumb stuffed animal ones) to my caches yesterday, only to find that some people before me had a similar idea - except they were putting the cheap toys from Wendy's (etc) in there...I actually bought my toys...

June 24, 2005

Basically I think that if the materials are not illegal, not dangerous to the finders or the cache, and not just plain old junk that anything goes. If you don't like whats there, don't take anything. You can still leave something that you think is good, and if there is something in a cache that you really don't think belongs, trade it out and throw it away.

9.5k · June 24, 2005

LOL. Is this about losing and winning? It obviously is to you. How can one lose? It is debate and really all involved should 'win' from seeing other sides and being enlightened. Do you want to compare IQ's, writing skills, tenacity? How 'bout we discuss the topic or not discuss the topic.

So when you get all ticked off at an opposing opinion, you just resort to name calling instead of maintaining an intelligent and level-headed debate. That's all I've been doing here.

Now using the term "YOU" in the generic sense...

Aside from truly socially offensive items and common sense , I could care less what you think sucks and doesn't suck, what is lame and not lame.

What I'm bothered by is someone's need to tell me what is offensive and shouldn't be in the cache just because they don't want to be preached to or they believe dirty golf balls and little itty bitty marbles are trash.

I've merely maintained if the cache and subsequentially the contents is in good condition, don't be a cache cop and pull it out for the good of all others to follow behind you. If it isn't in good condition, then that's where you, the finder, have the opportunity to pull it out to help maintenance the cache. But to play cache cop and pull out things that you have no interest in trading just because in your perspective you consider it trash because it involves politics or religious, or things are offensive to you... well you're honestly stepping over the line and taking on a responsibility nobody here has bestowed upon you.

My point is, keep this in perspective. The playing field level is at all levels from little 5 year olds all the way up. That marble or dirty golf ball maybe worthless to you, but to a little kid, they're priceless objects of immense enjoyment.

There's nothing to win or lose here as long as you have fun.

June 24, 2005

June 24, 2005

What I'm bothered by is someone's need to tell me what is offensive and shouldn't be in the cache just because they don't want to be preached to or they believe dirty golf balls and little itty bitty marbles are trash.

I don't think anyone has a need to tell you these things. Why do you? This thread wasn't started, near as I can tell, as a "Tell TotemLake What's Offensive" thread. I took it as a "gripe about the things you hate to find in caches thread". Admittedly, the thread title uses strong language "outlawed" and "banned" but does anyone honestly think this thread is going to be turned into a set of laws? That will be enforced?

Personally I think you're reading a little too much into it, and this epithet "cache cop" that you keep tossing about is a clear indicator of that.

(With all due respect to your desire to see less name calling, "whiner" and "cache cop" are also insulting terms.)

I've merely maintained if the cache and subsequentially the contents is in good condition, don't be a cache cop and pull it out for the good of all others to follow behind you.

I assume you are not referring to items which are clearly forbidden (such as food, alcohol, firearms, tobacco) etc.

What about, say, pornography? Are you telling me that since it isn't on the forbidden list, and I crack open a cache frequented by families with small children to find it contains porn, I *shouldn't* remove it?

But to play cache cop and pull out things that you have no interest in trading just because in your perspective you consider it trash because it involves politics or religious, or things are offensive to you... well you're honestly stepping over the line and taking on a responsibility nobody here has bestowed upon you.

To be blunt, if I traded that stuff out with items of equal value in my estimation, it's really none of your business what my motivations were. If I open a cache and find a satanic bible in it, I'm going to trade for it and remove it. My reasons for doing this might be because I'm a satanist and I want the thing, or it might be because I'm a christian and I don't want a kid to find the thing, or it might be because I believe caches shouldn't contain religious items out of respect for the diverse theologies of geocachers. In any of these cases, as long as I traded for it, I'm not overstepping anything. Even if I then contact the person who put it there and say "what the heck were you thinking?"

My point is, keep this in perspective. The playing field level is at all levels from little 5 year olds all the way up. That marble or dirty golf ball maybe worthless to you, but to a little kid, they're priceless objects of immense enjoyment.

There's nothing to win or lose here as long as you have fun.

On these points we are in complete agreement.

9.5k · June 24, 2005

By this argument as long as you derived pleasure from it and it is in good condition and you don't stuff the cache with several copies then a satanic bible, political bumpersticker, sex-ed pamphlet, or nazi propaganda are also acceptable.

Okay obviously I'm being facetious, clearly NONE of these items are appropriate... including the dog turd (sorry guys... you're just going to have to stick with cat poo--according to my dog it tastes better anyway).

The most important point raised on all the geocaching.com pages that discuss this (that I've seen) is to use your common sense. Caching is supposed to be a good time, it's supposed to be fun, and it's not supposed to be a vehicle for politics, philosophy, advertising, religious idealogy, or anything else.

It's just going to make them think you are not a nice person. In all likelihood it's going to make them stick to their own point of view all that much more strongly.

By your admittedly facetious examples, you would decide what's good and bad for the next person? I would question what you think you know about me if I were to be that next person.

A guy goes off into the woods to get away from life for awhile and just enjoy the outdoors and in the height of his elation he cracks open the cache he just found to see a big fat bumpersticker that says "Democrat = Terrorist" or "The Religious Right is NEITHER". How about it--is he having a good time now? Or is there a fairly decent chance that now he's ticked off because he came all the way out here precisely to forget about all that stuff for awhile?

Then that person put too much stock into the contents. My take on the adventure is and always has been, find the cache, sign the log, close the box, put it back and take the time to smell the flowers and enjoy the view. What's so difficult about having a little teflon to allow stuff like propaganda be easily shrugged off?

In general I agree with the rest of your statement except:

Sure it's easier to say "Who are you to say what should go in a cache? Quit being a whiner."

No, it's easier for someone to come here and complain because they think its trash or not high quality swag by their perspective and then come up with an idea to make a list of banned items. In fact, it has happened with far more frequency than I think you realize. If I'm to be called a bully because I stand up and express my opinion that is different, then I'll point out how ridiculous that is.

Maintaining a cache is not the same thing as pulling stuff out because you think it is inappropriate. If it is in good condition and not your cache, who are you to decide for everybody else? It's a simple question that doesn't need answering... It is just a little introspective thought provoker.

I didn't come here to insult, and I certainly didn't take the time to do so. I merely pointed out I agreed with a certain opinion. I came here to state my opinion and provide a suggestion which is more effective. I did not resort to anything such as name calling, either in general or specific. I merely suggested if a person can't stand dissenting opinions, then perhaps they shouldn't be involved in the discussion. That means discussion and debate was okay by me. Please feel free to go back through my posts and point out otherwise.

All sorts of people cache, and some are newbies, some are children. That broken toy may be something the child who placed it there played with anyway. To him it might be a treasure. Sure sitckers peel, golf balls may be dirty, but the point is to have fun finding the cache IMHO... what is actually inside is less important, and in any event it's not supposed to be items of great value. My advice would be not to approach a cache with any expectations other than it will contain a logbook, then you won't be disappointed. Ultimately, my advice is not to let it bother you, and if you can't, consider what Ghandi said: You possess the power to be the change you would like to see in the world. Put into caches the sort of things you would like to see in there and teach by example.

I have been in total agreement with this. Again, please feel free to go back through my posts and point out otherwise.

7.3k · June 24, 2005

After 3 years and 560 caches, I've long since forgotten to be worried about cache contents. To me it is the family time, the friend time, the alone time, the variety, the beauty, the fun, the suprises, the pleasure, the travel, the exerisize, the guilty pleasure, the critical thinking. What is in the cache fades away in light of all that. I still carry a caching bag with me, for those rare pleasurable times that I do find something that I want in a cache. But that is not the point to me anymore.

9.5k · June 24, 2005

What I'm bothered by is someone's need to tell me what is offensive and shouldn't be in the cache just because they don't want to be preached to or they believe dirty golf balls and little itty bitty marbles are trash.

I don't think anyone has a need to tell you these things. Why do you? This thread wasn't started, near as I can tell, as a "Tell TotemLake What's Offensive" thread. I took it as a "gripe about the things you hate to find in caches thread". Admittedly, the thread title uses strong language "outlawed" and "banned" but does anyone honestly think this thread is going to be turned into a set of laws? That will be enforced?

So let's go back to the OP:

The best you can do is make a list of items that you should never find in a cache.

Personally I think you're reading a little too much into it, and this epithet "cache cop" that you keep tossing about is a clear indicator of that.

Yah that came about because this person stated:

QUOTE (the 4 Chalupa's @ Jun 22 2005, 04:49 PM)
QUOTE (eaglespirit0 @ Jun 22 2005, 06:42 PM)

>> Do You Have a Spot in Heaven? with a little checklist of things to do to get into heaven.<<

If I did, I sure as hell wouldn't by the time I was done burning the trash in the cache and replacing it with stuff people WANT to find.

~liss

Try to keep up with me here because that's when I said...

One man's trash is another's treasure. What gives you the right to decide which is which? You might disagree with the pamphlet or the checklist, but it just might strike a chord with somebody else. As long as the contents and cache are in good shape, you are not my cache cop. Leave the contents alone if you don't feel like trading them.

I did not specifically call anybody a cache cop. Point it out and I'll retract it.

I assume you are not referring to items which are clearly forbidden (such as food, alcohol, firearms, tobacco) etc.

What about, say, pornography? Are you telling me that since it isn't on the forbidden list, and I crack open a cache frequented by families with small children to find it contains porn, I *shouldn't* remove it?

Eh? You forgot my previous statement to keep what you quoted in context:

Aside from truly socially offensive items and common sense , I could care less what you think sucks and doesn't suck, what is lame and not lame.

To be blunt, if I traded that stuff out with items of equal value in my estimation, it's really none of your business what my motivations were. If I open a cache and find a satanic bible in it, I'm going to trade for it and remove it. My reasons for doing this might be because I'm a satanist and I want the thing, or it might be because I'm a christian and I don't want a kid to find the thing, or it might be because I believe caches shouldn't contain religious items out of respect for the diverse theologies of geocachers. In any of these cases, as long as I traded for it, I'm not overstepping anything. Even if I then contact the person who put it there and say "what the heck were you thinking?"

Good for you. That means you followed the intent and spirit of the game. You came, you found it, you swapped items, you signed the log, and you put the cache back. Where did we differ in this? No where in this thread or others did I ever complain about that process.

I think with exception to some out of context examples, you and I are in agreement.

June 24, 2005

Dragon, thank you.

nuff said

June 24, 2005

So let's go back to the OP:
The best you can do is make a list of items that you should never find in a cache.

To which I say again, do you seriously believe this "list of items" is going to get turned into an actual set of laws which is enforced? I mean honestly, no offense to KYHillbilly, but who the heck is this guy? I'm sure even he doesn't imagine we're all going to suddenly adopt a list of banned items.

Given that, I stand by my original interpretation of this thread as a harmless gripefest.

Much like that guy what's his name who hates dimes and started a webpage calling for the abolishment of the US Dime (link). Or the guy who hates internet joke haiku and wrote a page calling for an end to the penning of joke haiku on the internet (link). I would urge you not to take such complaints seriously. If you think there's no point in complaining about it and you want to register that opinion I think that's great. I just have a problem with people being called whiners because they have opinions.

I did not specifically call anybody a cache cop. Point it out and I'll retract it.

Implied name calling is still name calling.

A: I think we should do X.

B: Eh, I'm with the quit-whining crowd. Doing X is playing cache cop.

(implied assertions: A is a whiner. A is a cache cop.)

An honorable debate is not one in which the insults switch from being explicit to implicit, as in this example:

Try to keep up with me here because that's when I said...

Don't condescend to me please. This conversation isn't exactly rocket science.

Moving on.

If I did, I sure as hell wouldn't by the time I was done burning the trash in the cache and replacing it with stuff people WANT to find.

~liss

Try to keep up with me here because that's when I said...

One man's trash is another's treasure. What gives you the right to decide which is which? You might disagree with the pamphlet or the checklist, but it just might strike a chord with somebody else. As long as the contents and cache are in good shape, you are not my cache cop. Leave the contents alone if you don't feel like trading them.

I added the emphasis to the first quote. So this guy is talking about removing from the cache what he sees as trash, and replacing it with other stuff. I'm sorry but isn't that basically trading? Isn't he doing the exact same thing I do when I remove the satanist bible and replace it with something I feel is more appropriate? Sounds to me like you're berating him anyway. Yes of course one man's trash is another man's treasure. And one man's treasure is another man's trash. If I look at the contents of a cache and say "this stuff is crap" and trade away all the "crap" items for good ones in my opinion, I once again assert that it is none of your business. It only becomes an issue if I remove the satanist bible or the religious pamphlets and put nothing in their place. And btw, that is at least one place where you implied someone was a "cache cop".

I assume you are not referring to items which are clearly forbidden (such as food, alcohol, firearms, tobacco) etc.

What about, say, pornography? Are you telling me that since it isn't on the forbidden list, and I crack open a cache frequented by families with small children to find it contains porn, I *shouldn't* remove it?

Eh? You forgot my previous statement to keep what you quoted in context:

Aside from truly socially offensive items and common sense , I could care less what you think sucks and doesn't suck, what is lame and not lame.

No, I didn't forget your previous statement, which is why I said I assume that you aren't referring to the forbidden items. My point is that "truly socially offensive items" is fairly subjective. Personally, I would be as offended by religious pamphlets as porn. Falling back on common sense we can say "well porn is inappropriate for kids". Okay. And a christian themed children's storybook? I would be positively livid to find such an item in a cache. The religious education of my child is my business and nobody else's. Most people I know would be similarly offended. My point in stating all this that what "truly socially offensive items" really means in your statment above is the items that you think are socially offensive. Which means it's subjective and therefore a pointless distinction, which brings me back to my example about pornography. I'm going to use my common sense if I decide to trade something out for inappropriateness. Religious propaganda definitely qualifies. You disagree? Great! But don't call me a whiner for stating that I think it is inappropriate, or a cache cop for replacing it with something else.

And with regard to the second portion of your statement "I could care less what you think sucks and doesn't suck", I find myself asking, why are you here then? I mean as this thread appears to be a forum for folks to gripe about what cache items they don't like, and you don't care what people don't like, why would you bother joining the discussion? I mean its fine for you to register your opinion that such discussions are pointless and to try and advise people that they're missing the point if they focus too intently on the contents of the cache. (And I agree with you wholeheartedly, btw.) But it seems to me you are instead passing judgement on the motivations behind the trades that people make, which by your own admission, are none of your business.

In the end, you and I are largely in agreement I think, except that I think it's wrong to call people whiners and cache cops when they talk about replacing items they see as bad with items they see as good. Isn't that what "trading up" is all about?

June 24, 2005

While the point of geocaching is the hunt, it is rather disappointing when you locate the cache only to find junk. I found this topic out of my frustration. I was caching earlier today with my cousins, 10 and 6 years old. Our first cache of the day amounted to Yugi-oh cards, they were moldy disappointed at the find. But knowing that to someone who collects these cards the find would be great! So we trekked on...where it progressively worsened. The last cache contents of the day consisted of (no joke) a used Disney ticket which had mold on it, business cards (I took them with me as a reminder to never shop at these places...maybe once I simmer down I MIGHT reconsider), a Busch Gardens theme park map (given for free upon arrival to the park), moldy stickers (not even the whole sheet! worse the sticker looked as though they had been cut out from the sheet), and a plastic Easter egg. How difficult is it to stop by the dollar store and buy $1 toys? In fact in most cases you can divide the package of toys (ex. bubbles sell in packages of 3's so that would be $.33). When searching to find a regular size cache part of the thrill is the contents. So let's all leave our used ticket stubs with no face value at home and commit to trading up!

On a side note...Target has introduced "The Dollar Spot" at the front of their stores...they have some awesome items for geocaching. Checking frequently, I have stumbled across compasses, magnetic travel themed picture frames, ponchos, as well as great other items!

Thanks for letting me vent…

June 25, 2005

Dragon... again thank you, however I fear your attempts are to no avail.

Dora.. Spot on about Target, the compasses and key chains are great! The kids I sometimes take often just want those key chains (go figure). And this has been said to death, but the dollar stores, I just had a particularly good round at the local one.... can't wait to get some catching in this weekend so I can get this cool swag out there! :anitongue:

I'm starting to notice sticker packs at the stores now and from the posts it seem some people like them, I guess it’s all about keeping then packaged as was said earlier.

Edited June 25, 2005 by teamjack&birdie

June 25, 2005

Personally I don't care much about what's in the cache, to me it's all about the hunt but if I see something illegal or really junky I trade for it so as to upgrade the cache a little, often I leave several items.

June 25, 2005

Oooh geez. Perhaps I was more or less naive in thinking that no one would complain about the religious pamphlets

It's my personal gripe -- that's all. I don't want to see them anymore. Do I trade them out? Sometimes I do, especially if they are wet, moldy, or the like (which is quite often) or if they are taking up room. So what?

Stop trying to pick fights; this was a very good topic for a thread and hopefully the initial topic will continue on it's course -- I had no intentions of derailing it by expressing my opinion and am sorry if others continue squabbling over it.

- JD

9.5k · June 25, 2005

To which I say again, do you seriously believe this "list of items" is going to get turned into an actual set of laws which is enforced?

Asked and answered that it wouldn’t be read by the vast majority of geocachers, but I’ll add the qualification of No, because it is unenforceable. You are forgetting I advocated local organized peer pressure as the better course of educating.

Originally and previously answered here before you even asked it and repeated throughout this thread.

Implied name calling is still name calling.

There was no implied name calling. It was the same as saying you’re not a cop when you justify sticking in the left lane at or below the speed limit to keep others from speeding. It’s a simple statement of you don’t have the authority so why take it upon yourself to determine what people really want? It's a label used as an adjective in that sense.

If I did, I sure as hell wouldn't by the time I was done burning the trash in the cache and replacing it with stuff people WANT to find.

~liss

I added the emphasis to the first quote. So this guy is talking about removing from the cache what he sees as trash, and replacing it with other stuff. I'm sorry but isn't that basically trading?

Here’s a problem with what you did… You limited your bolding and ignored a presumption that this person knows exactly what people want to find. I added the red to show what I pounced on. Bear in mind, my first question to The 4 Chalupas was

What gives you the right to decide which is which?

I didn’t pounce on her for trading. I pounced on her for deciding what I (generically speaking) really wanted. She can only assume. What if in that little slice of time, I might have needed that little pamphlet to give me spiritual direction. She would be exercising censorship for my good… not for hers.

I assume you are not referring to items which are clearly forbidden (such as food, alcohol, firearms, tobacco) etc.

What about, say, pornography? Are you telling me that since it isn't on the forbidden list, and I crack open a cache frequented by families with small children to find it contains porn, I *shouldn't* remove it?

Eh? You forgot my previous statement to keep what you quoted in context:

Aside from truly socially offensive items and common sense , I could care less what you think sucks and doesn't suck, what is lame and not lame.

No, I didn't forget your previous statement, edited for brevitY - TL

But not including it changes the context to support your argument and allow you to muddy the debate by tossing in pornography and cultist propaganda and called it "the same as…" when it clearly isn’t when you take in a broader scope of what is truly socially acceptable. But you made a valid point and defined your personal perception of what is socially responsible. You assumed I wasn’t painting in a broader scope and assumed I was also putting a personal and personally subjective spin of what I consider socially acceptable on this debate and sport. (bleh - please don't ask me to repeat that )

As for pulling out items of religious nature so that your child isn’t taught religion by other people and calling it trading up... The difference of what you did and what Liss did is the difference of personal reasons (yours) and doing it for the good of all of the other people (hers). I too believe in filtering what my young ones get to see and not see.

As an aside, allow me to point out a missed opportunity. Instead of teaching tolerance of differences of viewpoints, you would teach censorship is the correct action to take. But that is your level of parenting and I’m a strong supporter of how a parent chooses to raise their children without interference so long as it doesn’t extend beyond the laws of the land. Pulling literature out so that your children don’t see it doesn’t extend beyond that.

I find myself asking, why are you here then?

To do the same as everybody else here… (TJ&B seems to have a problem with this) to express an opinion as the topic was opened for debate in a public forum. As all topics of this kind of hot button would be; anybody with a strong opinion will pass judgment against others as you have done with me and as TJ&B continues to do with me, judgment has to be passed in order for a dissenting opinion to be expressed. Without it, there is no debate... just a vanilla agreement.

It is too bad this turned into a topic of pulling out religious or political propaganda and I apologize for the hijaack.

My original answer to the OP was and still is use localized organizational peer pressure to educate rather than suggest building lists of what should and shouldn't be used as trade items. Over legislation doesn't fix the problem the OP started with.

Three points to make and I’ll be happy to take the splitting hairs off line with you:

1. I never call people whiners or cache cops but I will use the labels as an adjective to point out what they are doing. That is not name calling, it's using common verbage people understand without going to great lengths of description to say the same thing.

2. Aside from removing things due to common sense or the broader scope of what is socially acceptable, trading up is part of the game as long as you do it for personal and immediate family reasons. I object to people using that excuse to exercise active censorship for the good of others. This isn’t 1933.

3.

Try to keep up with me here because that's when I said...

Don't condescend to me please. This conversation isn't exactly rocket science.

Moving on.

Excellent point. I usually edit my posts to keep them civil and I meant to edit out my vent of steam before publishing my post. You have my apologies for my tone. It was uncalled for.

=-=-edited to fix an improperly placed quote-=-=

Edited June 25, 2005 by TotemLake

June 25, 2005

TotemLake wrote: By your admittedly facetious examples, you would decide what's good and bad for the next person?

Caching is supposed to be Family-Friendly, for ALL persons.

TotemLake wrote: Instead of teaching tolerance of differences of viewpoints, you would teach censorship is the correct action to take.

If the person trading was tolerant, they wouldn't be proselytizing in a cache. They would accept that people can go to a house of worship of their choosing, at their own discretion, rather than assuming that Everyone wants to see their very own religious viewpoint.

The very action of placing religious materials in a cache is INTOLERANCE of differences of viewpoints.

Again, I have NO problem with someone placing a single item that represents their faith. Some people eat, drink, and live their faith (what-ever it may be).

I DO however, have a problem with multiple pamphlets aimed at converting people. That is completely Disrespectful, insulting and Intolerant.

So, will I censor my young children from a dose of that? You bet your behind I'm going to.

TotemLake wrote: I would question what you think you know about me if I were to be that next person.

Quite frankly, our team is assuming the next finder is going to be anywhere from age 4 to 99 .... and the cache items we leave are going to be appropriate for ANYONE of ANY Gender, ANY Race, ANY Religious Denomination, Any Political Affiliation, so that ANYONE that finds that cache will have a GOOD time.

That's what we Assume when we cache... that not every person that follows us geocaching is a white christian family with 2.5 kids, a white picket fence, and a cute little dog & cat.

But then again, I don't claim to have a lunatic stuck in my head (as per your avatar caption), so perhaps that's the difference in our gc teams and our perceptions. :laughing:

:laughing:

To Eaglespirit, your opinion didn't start an argument, just a slightly bubbling discussion. No one is angry here (well, at least I don't think so), but it is very interesting to see the many viewpoints that have popped up as a result.

~Liss

Edited June 26, 2005 by the 4 Chalupa's

9.5k · June 25, 2005

But then again, I don't claim to have a lunatic stuck in my head (as per your avatar caption), so perhaps that's the difference in our gc teams and our perceptions.

You couldn't resist to keep it from putting in a personal jab eh? Otherwise, even though I still disagree, your difference of opinion is duly noted as you stated it instead of sticking with your original comment.

What Should Be Outlawed From A Cache?????

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment