Trashed Out Live Ammo

[jim7226]

I have found live ammo in caches before, I have found 9mm shells, Colt 45 shell, .223 shells and a few more that I cant remember, I try not to carry around live ammunition in my pockets to leave as swag in caches, thats not something I am a fan of. If I see these things in caches now, I just try to overlook it.

Back to the basic premise of this thread...I think most of us can agree that leaving ammunition of any kind or caliber is a poor trade object in caches.

 

Besides, I would NEVER shoot ammunition of unknown origin through any of my guns for fear it could be hot-loaded and subsequently could damage my gun AND then in the process cause great harm to me.

Edited June 22, 2005 by jim7226

[+Kai Team]

Just one more thought on the "inmate" analogy...

I once worked in a maximum security jail unit. Standard contraband training for all staff included a discussion question: "What is more dangerous in a jail/prison setting - a contraband gun without ammunition, or contraband ammunition without a gun?"

 

The correct answer, according to the security experts, was ammunition without a gun, because it's much easier to construct a zip gun than it would be to create viable ammunition. The point of the training question was to stay vigilant in conducting searches. Of course, despite the training, people do become lax, and ammunition could be smuggled inside.

 

That said, I have to agree that the probability of a bullet in a cache being found by a prison work crew and smuggled into prison is extremely small (but not zero). Despite that, it's a bad idea for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the public hysteria that leads to laws that ban possession of spent shells (I still find that one hard to believe - I thought NY had strict gun control laws).

 

As for the original question, no, I've never found live ammo in a cache.

 

Edit: Typo

Edited June 22, 2005 by Kai Team

[+Nyarlotep]

Wow, this got OT. I've never found ammo in a cache, nor would I leave ammo in a cache, simply to protect stupid people from themselves. Ammo (generally) isn't that dangerous on its own, even thrown by the handful into bonfires, but that's still not a good idea. Based on the caches in my area, it would more likely get waterlogged from all the moisture before it could spontaneously combust and turn the ammo can into a bomb.

[+Mopar]

Yup, just like leaving knives in caches, ammo is a no-no; not for safety but for the perception.

 

And Kia; I'm no expert, but I'm gonna disagree. I'm gonna say the contraband gun without ammunition is more dangerous then the ammo without a gun.

The reason?

The only person that knows for sure that the gun has no ammo is the person carrying it. For all intents and purposes everyone else would treat the gun as loaded.

A prisoner might be able to do more real damage with a zip gun (but only one shot), but if he were wielding a REAL gun he could pretty much do whatever he wanted.

[+Docapi]

OK, here is the entire paragraph-

 

 

Contact was made with the Maryland Fire Marshals Office and information was given by a Bomb Squad Technician, who advised the following information. "Firearm Ammo when subjected to extreme heat and fire expands with a minor explosion which separates the bullet from the casing causing the bang or pop noise. Because this explosion occurs in an open environment where there is no compression and/or directed propellant, this is considered a low hazard situation. However, if the ammo is in a closed container where the force is contained or directed, portions of the shell, casing, container may be propelled short distances. Shotgun shells, which generally have a plastic case are most likely to melt prior to the explosion and the contained shot are generally released and the powder charge explosion is generally harmless." The technician advised that 20-30 ft should be a safe distance.

 

The same technician that made the quote that you are using to support your theory made the recomendation. Those were his words- regardless of wheteher is was a direct quote or not.

 

I once worked in a maximum security jail unit. Standard contraband training for all staff included a discussion question: "What is more dangerous in a jail/prison setting - a contraband gun without ammunition, or contraband ammunition without a gun?"

 

When I had my training, the same question came up, with the same answer. It is relatively easy to make a device to fire the ammunition- a lot tougher to make the ammunition itself. We were shown some of the "zip" guns that had been found in the system- pretty amazing what they can come up with.

[+TwoFreds]

I can't help but wonder how the topic of finding ammo in a cache has anything to do with the notion of an escaped convict ultimately finding said ammo and making a "zip-gun" in order to fire it!? This would be a bit like starting a topic "Trashed Out Cold Medicine" and debating whether or not a meth addict might ultimately find it and convert it into meth. We all know what bullets do. So don't leave them in a cache... and if you happen to find one, be sure to take it to the local bomb squad for controlled detonation. Jeeesh! whatever.

[+UncleJimbo]

 

BTW, only slightly off-topic: in some states, you need a permit to possess ammo. In Massachusetts for example, you need a permit to possess even the spent shells.

In other words, in Mass. you would need a permit to legally clean up after those sloppy hunters who leave spent shotgun shells all over the woods.

 

Could you provide a link to this law in MA? I have never heard of it.

 

Cheers

[+cache_test_dummies]

Could you provide a link to this law in MA? I have never heard of it.

Here's a related discussion, I think you'll find the link in there somewhere.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

We never got an answer as to whether this was actually a live round. Just because it looks like a bullet doesn't mean it will fire. I have a friend who reloads ammo and we've pressed lead into empty cases on many occasions. It will look like a bullet, but there's no way it'll fire. And for the curious... we use them to practice reloads and dry-fire for competitions.

 

DCC

[+UncleJimbo]

Could you provide a link to this law in MA? I have never heard of it.

Here's a related discussion, I think you'll find the link in there somewhere.

 

Thanks. I didn't find a link in that thread that definitively indicates that possession of empty shells or casings is illegal without a permit, but the statute (as many in MA) is written poorly (IMO). Someone in the thread claims to have spoken to someone in authority who confirmed it is against the law. I guess it is better to be safe than sorry, but I also find it hard to believe that anyone would ever get arrested/prosecuted for possessing a few empty casings.

 

Cheers

Edited September 13, 2007 by UncleJimbo

[+ranger family]

I have a few 9mm & 7.,62 spent cartridges but they have been clean of any cordite residue so that there can be no chance of anything burning or going bang. I am ex artillary and as such have fired 105mm weapons but even with military experience would not leave them in caches as it could leave a wrong message. However all said & done properly marked dummy rounds which can not possibly be used as live ammo I think is probably ok.

[+Mudfrog]

It's been rare but we have come across a few rounds of various caliber ammunition during our caching travels. These weren't "shocking" to find since my wife and i are familiar with and own several firearms. But we have and do remove any seemingly live rounds that we find in caches. Not because we find them threatening, but that we know they go against GC.com guidelines and the even bigger reason for me, that the main areas we have come across them was in caches placed out in the forest. The forest service does control burns from time to time and i figure that some of these rounds could discharge with sufficient temperature increase, thereby damaging the cache when they went off!

[+dkwolf]

We never got an answer as to whether this was actually a live round. Just because it looks like a bullet doesn't mean it will fire. I have a friend who reloads ammo and we've pressed lead into empty cases on many occasions. It will look like a bullet, but there's no way it'll fire. And for the curious... we use them to practice reloads and dry-fire for competitions.

 

DCC

Well, since this is a two-year old thread that got dredged up, I'm guessing there probably won't be an answer to whether or not it was a live round anytime soon....

[+Driver Carries Cache]

We never got an answer as to whether this was actually a live round. Just because it looks like a bullet doesn't mean it will fire. I have a friend who reloads ammo and we've pressed lead into empty cases on many occasions. It will look like a bullet, but there's no way it'll fire. And for the curious... we use them to practice reloads and dry-fire for competitions.

 

DCC

Well, since this is a two-year old thread that got dredged up, I'm guessing there probably won't be an answer to whether or not it was a live round anytime soon....

 

D'oh! I didn't even check.

 

DCC

[+Renegade Knight]

Just one more thought on the "inmate" analogy...

I once worked in a maximum security jail unit. Standard contraband training for all staff included a discussion question: "What is more dangerous in a jail/prison setting - a contraband gun without ammunition, or contraband ammunition without a gun?"

 

The correct answer, according to the security experts, was ammunition without a gun, because it's much easier to construct a zip gun than it would be to create viable ammunition. ...

 

A member of my family died from a zip gun. He came across it in a tookbox he was examining in preparation for an auction. He didn't know what it was and while examining it to figure it out it went off.

 

I pull live ammo. It serves no higher purpose when it's sitting in a cache. I haven't seen ammo in a cache since about 2002/2003

Edited September 14, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+kevnjenn]

I have found a few live rounds while caching, but it was in Baghdad...

[+AMMOMAN]

I have found a few rounds in caches. I usually remove the projectile and leave it in the cache. Dump the powder on the ground and CITO the casing. Quick and safe.

 

Ammoman

[+rdaines]

Heck, even if it was a caliber I shoot it's really not a good idea to use ammo from an unknown source. It could be some joker's super hot self defense load design to go thru two bad guys with one shot.

[AZcachemeister]

I have removed live ammo more than a few times (maybe a dozen or so).

Spent casings are probably not such a cool trade item, but some of them do make a good emergency whistle if you know how to use them.

Very interesting to note (way back at the top of the thread) that you need a permit to possess spent ammo in Massachusetts!? Can someone explain that logic?