Eliminating Marks From Your Seach List?

[kc2ixe]

Going through the list of local marks, I've come up with a stack of marks that I will NOT search for - and some of them would even be "first to recover" marks.

 

Why?

 

Many of them are set in the center pier of highway overpasses where the ONLY way to recover the mark is to shut down a lane on the highway - all fine and good, but I'm not doing it - I don't think NYC would appreciate that, and if the traffic didn't kill me, I'm sure the passing drivers would. One one or two, I'm tempted to take out my telescope, and see if I can recover the mark from well off the highway..... Heck, it would be "different"

[+bicknell]

Twice I have "recovered" a mark via a telephoto lense (300mm) before walking up to it. Both were on abandoned bridges that were left as the road was moved several hundred feet to one side. One was on private property, the other was in the woods. I wanted to make sure it was worth my trouble.

 

In neither case could I read the stamping via the lense, but given the next mark was ~1 mile away I would consider the snap that shows a disk as being "good enough" for gc.com. Not sure if I'd submit an NGS recovery without reading the disk though.

 

Also once, maybe twice, I've had the camera in the car, pulled up next to a mark on a bridge, stopped, snapped a pic from the car, and moved on. Depedning on the road, if it's not too busy at an off hour you can do that relatively safely. Your co-pilot should be watching for cars coming up from behind though, and be prepared to make a couple of passes if there is traffic...

 

Of course, above all, be safe. Finding a mark isn't worth being in an accident.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Come to think of it, there's quite a few types on my list. I don't search for disks and nails on tops of buildings. I tend not to look for ones that will definitely require asking for permission. I don't do intersection stations. I almost always avoid non-FTF ones. I don't do the railroad ones that are far away from any road.

[kc2ixe]

Come to think of it, there's quite a few types on my list. I don't search for disks and nails on tops of buildings. I tend not to look for ones that will definitely require asking for permission. I don't do intersection stations. I almost always avoid non-FTF ones. I don't do the railroad ones that are far away from any road.

Funny, I do a LOT of interesction station - but NOT ones I expect to find, or unless they have not been found in 50 or more years, and generally not even then. Believe it or not, for me, "destroying" intersection station around here is one of my "fun" things - so many are gone - now to prove it

 

As for non FTF - I decide on those on a case by case basis, depending on what else I have to do - went to look at one tonight where I would have been 2nd to find, but 1st since 1934. I won't bother with a station that has been reported in the last, oh, 20 years or so. (BTW I did get another 2nd to find - the Monumented was "unknown", 1st find, 1952, then me tonight)

 

Permission - yeah, that can be a "problem" but have only run into ONE of those so far, so....

[GH55]

At first, I didn't think intersection stations would be interesting. Now I agree that proving one "destroyed" can be intersting and challenging.

 

I decided to look for all the NGS stations in my county and the next county to the south this year. It has been interesting.

 

I have not come across any here in rural Iowa that I am not willing to look for. But then, there aren't any in high traffic areas.

 

GH

[+m&h]

There's a thrill to the "first to find" find, but we have one that is somewhat dampened by a suspicion that it's more a matter of documentation than a matter of finding. On Nantucket there's a terrific old row of three meridian markers (not the famous two in the middle of town, which NGS doesn't record), out toward the south side of the island. They are LW4184, Meridian North Stone; LW4251, Meridian Middle Stone; and LW4252, Meridian South Stone 1887. The North stone sheet reports a last recovery in 1909. The middle stone sheet reports a last recovery in 1955. The south stone reports no recoveries since monumentation in 1887.

 

Now, the south stone has been broken off below ground level, but the outlines of its octagonal shape are clear enough. The depression in the ground right above it suggests that others have found it before we did. It seems odd, not to say very unlikely, that a CGS person would have found only the middle stone in 1955, whatever ended up being reported. Incidentally, the stones are in fact octagonal, not hexagonal as described. I doubt that Cheryl Malone needs to know that.

 

Whoever may have been there before us, we had a fine time finding them.

[mloser]

I too take a certain, sad, pleasure in marking stations destroyed. My feeling is that if a mark is actually destroyed it is better to have it out of the database totally and not simply there as a Not Found, or worse, an incorrect Found (see other threads about incorrect water towers, antennas, etc.).

 

As for stations I will never look for... I have to say I can't think of any. There are a couple that I think will be harder than others, but none that I have given up on TRYING to find. I was lucky to find a contact at a local military base and got to complete my search on that property early this spring. There are some on railroad property that I will need some sort of permission to locate, but I feel that sooner or later I will ask for and receive that permission (no, probably NOT official permission, but I have a few contacts who would cover for me if and when I ask).

 

A few are like kc2ixe's "never find" marks as they are along busy highways but none are in the center of the highway, so sooner or later I will find a time to stop and get them--maybe a 6 am foray will have limited traffic.

 

Matt

[+Me & Bucky]

As for stations I will never look for... I have to say I can't think of any.

 

I agree completely with Matt; I can't think of many marks that I won't look for. If it has a PID, and even sometimes when it doesn't, I will go looking for it (but that's for another topic ).

[+seventhings]

When I plan my benchmark hunting forays, I typically select a geographic area (a 7.5 minute quad, for example), and search for all the marks within its boundaries during a single trip (maybe two) into the area. During the planning I prioritize the list and usually eliminate marks on railroad ROWs that are not near a road crossing, on interstate ROWs, on top of buildings, or in obviously restricted areas.

 

I place a low priority on marks that have been found by other Geocachers, but I won't avoid them if they are conveniently located or of special interest (the Washington Monument, for example). I will place a high priority on non-FTFs if the previous hunter has found the station but failed to find/log the RMs, for example, or logged an RM as the station. I usually take a pass on a mark if it's on residential or posted private property, but not until I check it out in the field with at least a drive-by.

 

I also feel some responsibility to search for at least a few marks that have extremely low probabilities of being found (previously logged or described as not found, esp. by NGS/CGS and the history suggests that no one else will find it either).

 

Most importantly, once I make ANY effort in the field to search for a specific mark, I log SOMETHING on the Geocaching datasheet (reserving the NOTE option for inaccessible marks). I have seen several examples of benchmark hunters logging a number of finds along a highway but logging nothing for the other several marks that are interspersed in similar locations among the five found ones. There seems to be a reluctance to log "Didn't find it"s.

 

Will

[ArtMan]

When I'm planning an excursion more than an hour or so from home, I tend to prioritize. I read datasheets and, like Will, I tend to filter out those deep into private property (but not those near a road), or on an Interstate or RR right of way ... though I've made exceptions in my youthful past, and probably will again. I'll probably skip a "not found" when I trust the report, but sometimes I'll stop by anyway, even if I know I won't find it, just out of curiosity, or maybe to add a photo to a log. All other factors being equal, I'll give a higher priority to marks that have no GC log and no recent NGS report

 

I'm always happy to log another church spire or radio mast, and I do not discriminate against intersection stations. Many of these have not had NGS recovery reports in decades, and I think it's important to update that database. In other cases it just seems silly to drive by and not snap a picture.

 

One other personal factor: I have apparently recently developed a serious allergy to poison ivy. It used to bother me a bit, but I recently had a terrible reaction, which got infected, etc. Believe me, you don't want the full details. Although I didn't encounter the nasty weed on a benchmarking expedition, I am at the moment very shy about wading into vegetation that might contain that evil plant, so for now I find special appeal in disks on bridges, sidewalks, train stations and court houses, and metal rods driven to refusal in suburban lawns.

 

-ArtMan-

 

-ArtMan-

[kc2ixe]

When I plan my benchmark hunting forays, I typically select a geographic area (a 7.5 minute quad, for example), and search for all the marks within its boundaries during a single trip (maybe two) into the area.

A whole quad - man, your mark density must be a LOT lower than they are around here

 

246 marks in my local quad

 

Either that, or you work a LOT quicker than I do

 

Lets see - lets figure it at 2 days, at 12 hrs each - or 24 hours, or 1440 minutes - you've got 5.8 minutes to do each mark, and that includes GETTING to the mark, parking, finding, photographing, and recording data

[mloser]

Artman,

 

I totally understand your fear of heading into the brush because of poison ivy. I have had extreme reactions to it since I was a kid and when I started benchmarking last year rediscovered it after an absence of years. What I have found however is that I am most prone to it in late winter/early spring, when it is semi-dormant and has no leaves. I have yet to be able to easily identify dormant poison ivy, and if you think only the leaves cause problems, think again! I have been to the doctor for steroids twice due to benchmarking poison ivy cases, one in March 2004 and one in April 2005, both from vines with no leaves!

Before someone regales me with the fact that I can identify poison ivy by the fuzzy vines, be aware that only the THICKER ones have that telltale fuzz and smaller vines show no sign of being something not to touch. I have no trouble this time of year, as I can identify mature poison ivy from about 50 feet. I will do everything but touch it though, as contact is necessary to get the rash.

 

My tendency is to dig around in a dormant vine looking for a benchmark, then wipe sweat off my face, scratch my eyes, and touch other sensitive areas, making sure I get it all over my body. This leads to cases of poison ivy that swell my eyes shut and generally make me miserable. Those of you who have not gotten poison ivy between fingers will never understand how miserable it can make you feel!

 

My solution? HA!

 

Well, for one thing, twice biitten, third time shy... I now (try to) stay clear of anything vine-like in any season. I have purchsed a large tub of Lava brand wipes to keep in the car, and after touching any plant that I am in any way unsure of, do a complete wipedown of my face, hands and arms. I got Lava brand because they don't have skin softeners in them. Since poison ivy is an oil, such softeners would just help smear it in larger areas and give you a worse rash.

 

My secret weapon is Tecnu, a cleaner that purports to work up to 8 hours after contact with poison ivy. I keep a bottle in the car and one at home and have used both. You can get it at most drugstores for about $7.00 a bottle. The bottle will wash your hands and face about 8-10 times from my experience. Well worth the insurance!

 

After cleaning myself, I wash my clothing BY ITSELF, with a strong soap. People swear by Fels Naptha but I have never reinfected myself after just using good ol Tide or All.

 

Some poison ivy facts:

The rash you get is a reaction to an oil called urushiol in the vines and on the leaves. You CANNOT get poison ivy by being near it--you MUST touch it, or have it touch you. People who say "I can get poison ivy by just being near it" are not liars, they just got nearer than they thought!

 

According to some sources, you have between 5 and 15 minutes to clean the area before the oil soaks into your skin and guarantees you a rash. If you do choose to clean the area, keep away from beauty soaps--they will just spread it. Use an alcohol based cleaner followed by soap or a stronger soap without softeners in it. Tecnu, for me at least, seems to defy this. Another product to wash with is called Zanfel. The product claims to actuall REDUCE the severity of an exiting case of poison ivy. I can say that it didn't work for me, and at $30 a pop I wasn't going to give it a second chance. Your results may vary.

 

You CANNOT get poison ivy from someone else, unless they have so much of the oil on them that you get it from that. The oozy stuff that comes out of mature blisters is lymph and is just a body fluid. It is nasty but not contagious. You CAN get poison ivy from your dog or cat, after they have walked through a patch and you pet them or rub your face in their fur. And, although I have never heard exactly what happens to a person in this case, you can get poison ivy from being in smoke from burning plants. The thought of getting poison ivy in my throat or nose totally scares me!

 

Urushiol is present in other everyday things. An oddball example is the black laquer used on older Japanese furniture. I proved this to myself one time. You laugh, but I am a hands on kind of guy. It wasn't a bad case though.

Another place is in cashews. Yep, I can eat them without a problem, most of the time. But the word is that if you have a case of poison ivy and eat cashews, the combo makes your rash flare up. This is one I will NOT test, because the thought of being one large rash scares me to death.

 

Poison ivy lives on the edge... you will find it at the edge of a farm field that adjoins woods, beside the road, at the sides of buildings, etc. You will rarely find it in deep woods--it needs more light than that. It is a vine so it wants to climb things, but it can be found carpeting large areas too.

 

I hope this helps some of you. What it all boils down to is: learn to recognize poison ivy and stay away from it! I should take my own advice.

 

Matt

[+bicknell]

While I don't do it specifically for poison ivy, I do carry a full sized shovel, and I make sure anything green around a mark is wacked down and pushed away with the shovel before I go in.

 

I hate sap.

 

Long pants and boots are also a must for summer benchmarking. A few places I've wished I had hip waders.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

A worse native plant than poison ivy is poison sumac. It is more difficult to identify than poison ivy and isn't a vine or ivy in form. Fortunately it only grows in forested bogs, so you'd run across it only very rarely. Here is an identifier page. Like poison ivy, poison sumac has white 'fruits', and they can be seen right now (in June).

 

The botanical and dermatological-effect relationships between poison ivy, cashews is explained here, quite well.

[+seventhings]

kc2ixe -

 

The quads along the PA-MD boundary and in the rural areas of Delaware usually have 30-40 good, recoverable marks. Along the southern boundary of Delaware, the density is quite a bit greater. For planning purposes, I figure an average of about 15 minutes per mark. Can cover many rural quads in a single, nine-hour day.

 

All -

 

Poison Ivy!! Three or four times in the past two years. Currently, I think I have Poison Oak. Got it along the Chesapeake and Delaware canal last week. Looks like a Gambel Oak or Dwarf Live Oak (bush-like oak trees), but acts like the Poison Ivy vine. Also, makes your clothes look like you were downwind when a fountain pen went through the fan.

 

The old-wives wisdom about Poison Ivy is that one becomes more sensitive to it the more one is exposed. Sort of a reverse-tolerance effect. Seems consistent with my experience.

 

Will

[+Black Dog Trackers]

In the non-leaf seasons of winter and early spring, poison ivy/oak plants can be identified on the ground as vaguely crooked, but erect, unbranched brown stems about 14 inches tall.

 

Note a poison ivy patch near woods in the summer and visit the same place again in the winter to get a clear picture in your mind of how the poison ivy stems look.

 

On the trunks of trees, poison ivy is very recognizable unless it is less very young; going less than a couple feet up the tree. It always is attached closely to the tree (unlike Virginia creeper which is a loose-hanging vine), and has short dark-red hairs holding it tightly to the bark of the tree (unlike english ivy which has fattish, flat white rootlets holding it to the bark of the tree).

 

Cut poison ivy vines show a shiny black sap after a day or so. I know, because I cut them when I can, knowing that poison ivy only reproduces (has the white berries) when it can reach a height of 4 feet or more. Very rarely, it can reach that height on its own, but almost always uses a tree to get its height.

 

The way poison ivy will surprise you the worst is when you walk under a tree infested with it, and all the leaves on the tree up to 15 feet or more and standing straight out from the trunk as far as 5 feet are actually poison ivy leaves, not the tree's leaves, and they will get in your face if you don't notice what's going on! Beware of the red-haired vines on tree trunks!!!

 

I don't think this applies so much, if any, in the West, but here in the East, it sure does. I've even seen a few trees that have been killed by poison ivy and the dead tree had plenty of leaves - 100% poison ivy.

[+byonke]

Currently, I think I have Poison Oak. Got it along the Chesapeake and Delaware canal last week. Looks like a Gambel Oak or Dwarf Live Oak (bush-like oak trees), but acts like the Poison Ivy vine. Also, makes your clothes look like you were downwind when a fountain pen went through the fan.

 

Can anyone expound a little more on the fountain pen through a fan annalogy. I have come home a few times with black spots all over my light colored pants. I never knew the cause. I am not particularly sensitive to PI, but I do try to avoid it if possible. I just never knew the source of the black spots. They certainly don't wash out.

 

Brian

[+Black Dog Trackers]

byonke -

 

seventhings was alluding to the fact that the sap from poison ivy and poison oak and poison sumac, and the japanese version of poison sumac that they get (or used to get) their very black furniture finish from is very very black and hard when it dries.

 

Whether or not the black stuff that seventhings experienced was the sap from one of these poisonous plants or perhaps some blackening sap from a non-poisonous plant, I don't know.

 

Many plants can stain clothes and skin, and some will only turn color when they dry (or polymerize in air).

[+seventhings]

I am certain that I got my most recent case of Poison Ivy/Poison Oak and the numerous small, black stains on my slacks and shirt from the same bush (under which I erroneous thought JU2509 resided). Everywhere each rigid, pointy leaf-end touched my skin, I got a rash. Everywhere each leaf touched my clothes, I got an indelible black spot.

 

Will

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'll look for anything with a PID.

I love intersection points! Especially if I can prove that they've been destroyed.

Found one today! And a regular benchmark nearby.

My priorities? Anything that hasn't been found in five or en years. Anything not found by a geocacher likely to report recovery to NGS.

Holograph already found Woodport. So, today, I went looking for Milton, and Milton Lot. Not reported since 1973 and 1991. The firetower was easy to find. Milton has three RMs. I found the station, and one of the RMs. The other two reference marks had no disks. I reported the stem on one, and the cement on the other.

I may go for Woodport another time. But there are others that haven't been recovered recently. Those will have priority.