Safety Vest Interest?

[+bicknell]

I've done some looking around at safety vests, and here's what I've found:

 

They come in three flavors, uncertified, and ANSI Class I to ANSI Class III. Basically as you go up they are designed for working closer to active traffic, and thus have more reflective stuff on them. Class III is what you need to work by 50mph traffic, and given some of the marks by some of the roads around here that seems like a good idea.

 

You can then get a "survey" vest, which really means 4-8 pockets on it.

 

You can then get a loco / title on the back for an extra fee.

 

Pretty much all come with an orange or lime green option.

 

Bottom of the line, you can get a vest for about $6. Type in "safety vest" into google and you'll find a bunch of places. Top of the line it varies, most people want to charge pretty high fees to personalize (eg, even put "SURVEYOR" on the back), driving them up to $75-$100 each.

 

Here's one of the better options I found at WS Safety Solutions. A Class III vest with a "surveyor" logo on it would run $45. No pockets on this one as it's a full mesh vest, so you can wear it in the summer.

 

As a comparison, here's one of the nicer survey vests with pockets at Waste Safety. It's only a class II (no arms for reflective stuff), but has 12 pockets. No idea on the price on this one.

 

What's the interest level? Even a small quantity, like 10, would get a break on the setup fees to put a logo on them. "SURVEYOR", "VOLUNTEER SURVEYOR", "GEOCACHING.COM", I dunno, lots of possibilities. Keeps us safe, makes us look more offical.

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Any vest that will help get you noticed, and keep from getting hit by a car or otherwise hurt, is a good thing, from the $6 mesh vests to the $75 Filson Cruiser Vest. I have a Filson as my daily wear but I have a few of the inexpensive types in my truck for 'just in case' too. A vest also has the ability of making you look a bit more official as well.

 

Now, I know this is picking at nits, but if a logo or title was to be put on the back of the vest, ie 'Geocaching.com' or 'Volunteer Benchmark Recovery Team' or something similar, it may be wise to avoid the term 'Surveyor'. Some local and State jurisdictions may have an official meaning and/or designation for the term which can only be used by people authorized to practice or perform surveys. California restricts the use of

...the titles 'licensed land surveyor,' 'professional land surveyor,' or 'land surveyor,' or any combination of these words, phrases, or abbreviations thereof.

(See the California Business and Professions Code, Sec 8708.) Other jurisdictions may have restrictions on the term 'Surveyor' as well.

 

I know that benchmark hunting is not surveying, but most of the general public does not. Also, the limitations on these terms are specifically for the practice of performing surveys, which benchmark hunting certainly is not. However, to much of the general public, seeing an official looking 'surveyor' could create many assumptions and confusion on their part, as well as (however highly unlikely) get the attention of the local officials.

 

But wear a vest.

 

- Kewaneh

Edited June 15, 2005 by Kewaneh & Shark

[+Munin]

I'd be interested in a vest like this. A couple of random thoughts:

 

An orange one would be verrrrry useful in a number of places I've cached/biked/hiked where hunting is permitted during various times of the year. Hunters might not care one way or the other about logos/titles, but they know that a bright orange vest means "not a deer"! Since many areas specifically require the color orange for people moving inside hunting zones, I'd vote for that color - a vest like that would provide very useful visibility in both urban and woodland settings, caching or benchmarking, all year 'round.

 

I might even be interested in ordering two vests of that sort, since I like to keep a spare in the car during hunting season in case I'm heading out with someone who doesn't have one of their own. (Who knows - maybe in the summer I can use the spare to bribe one of my caching buddies into standing around and holding the other end of a measuring tape if they get to wear an "Official Junior Benchmarking Squadron" vest. )

 

I'd have to agree with previous comments (Kewaneh & Shark's here, and Paul/PFF's over in the NGS Volunteer Corps thread) that it'd be good to avoid using "Surveyor" as part of the title. But I think you're right that it would look slicker and more professional to have a logo/title on the vest. "Volunteer Benchmark Recovery Team" or similar themes (I dunno, "Geocaching.com Benchmark Recovery Crew"?) would be descriptive without running afoul of any local statutes...I'd be game for anything along those lines.

 

Just speaking for myself, I'd be willing to go in on an order for the nicer vests - I'd rather pay more for something that's decently durable and well-designed than to go for a bottom-line version and have it get torn/shredded the first time it gets snagged by a branch or a thorny bush. The ones you and K&S linked to look orders of magnitude nicer than my current, generic, "one size fits nobody" vests from the local K-Mart's hunting department.

[+ddnutzy]

I use a orange open mesh vest with ten pockets and two gromets that I keep small biners attached to clip my gps and compass to the vest. I got this vest from the Ben Meadows Co. ( benmeadows.com). I bought the vest for search and rescue work but I also use it for benchmarking. I only wish they made it in lime green which is more visible. The vests are not to expensive either. $39.70 ea and $35.90 for five or more. Item #5JB-105156

[evenfall]

Another Opinion from a Pro in the field. I wear a Vest made by SECO. They are a maker of many different things for the Survey Community. Cordura, Lots of pockets, All full, the things weighs a ton but it is the nature of the biz. It does meet ANSI specs for highway use. It was almost $100.00. It is Very Durable and able to endure everyday HARD use. I am not reccomending this vest per se, as I don't see where people will really have need for it, but many of us in the field wear the Filsons and the Secos because we need the durability.

 

ANSI compliance is a pretty big deal these days if you are working near a road. I mean this from an official standpoint. I am saying that as Industry Professionals, we are required to wear them. There are people who in official capacities can ask that you be wearing adequate protection. They can also levy fines if we don't. Most Companies who bid these jobs require it because the contracts require it.

 

Please do not underestimate the motoring public. Kenewah, Z15 and I could bore you for hours with stories of almost, near misses due to traffic. I won't go into a few people I used to know before they were killed in traffic related accidents on the Job.

 

Being seen and remaining alive should be your first want.

 

I would not have any silkscreened wording. Not Geocaching, and Not Surveyor, as you are there because you want to be. Geocaching is not responsible for you and you are not Surveyors. Trust me, Not everyone likes Surveyors either. Walking the Talk is important there. You do not want to be asked questions you cant answer. A simple Safety vest is all that is needed.

 

Who you are and what you are doing is your business as far as most people are concerned, and those who may ask need not be given extra info about you before they ask. It is best they not have preconceived notions about you. Be prepare with a good attitude and answer when asked.

 

A simple vest with pockets and Ansi Class 3 safety specs can be had for around $30.

 

Keep it simple, and be safe.

 

Rob

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

I tried having a vest with a logo but the logo was so long it covered up all the orange.

 

The logo reads.......

 

Geodetic Interactive Spatial Referencing Devices, search, recovery, and documentation staff.

 

 

 

 

John

[kc2ixe]

...snip...

I would not have any silkscreened wording. Not Geocaching, and Not Surveyor, as you are there because you want to be. ...snip...

I've got un unclassified Orange, a class 1 orange with a refelctive lime green panel that says "Communications" on it - That one because it's the vest I'm supposed to wear if I'm involved in any 'Incident Command System" call out - "Lime Green" is the color for communications believe it or not - in fact, it REALLY is supposed to be a lime green vest in the ICS, but they take a green panel as OK

[+Munin]

...but the logo was so long it covered up all the orange.

 

The logo reads.......

 

Geodetic Interactive Spatial Referencing Devices, search, recovery, and documentation staff.

:lol: Okay, perhaps something a bit shorter might be a good idea.

 

I'm not dead-set on having a logo, but I do think it would add a little something extra - a little esprit-de-corps, a dash of splash. But mostly because I think it'd be fun. Same reason I often wear a caching-themed t-shirt, or stick a geocaching.com pin on my cap or pack when I'm out caching - it's just for fun. That's also why I wouldn't be dead-set on having a logo on the vests - I think it'd be fun, others might not...and if it's not a popular idea, well I can always create a button/patch and add it to my vest on my own afterwards. Not a big deal.

 

But just to see if it'd spark some interest, I sat down for a few minutes and tossed together a couple of quickie logos. Me, I'm kind of a visual person - I need to see something to kickstart my brain and say "gee, I like that", or "huh...no, that doesn't really work". Maybe these'll get people thinking about alternatives, improvements, etc.

 

Simple version, sort of a minimalist disk design:

 

 

Same idea, but plays off the geocaching logo design:

 

 

A multi-color logo like this probably isn't practical (ie, I suspect it'd be big $$$ to do multi-color, multi-layer silkscreening), but since I'm just brainstorming here I figured I'd try creating one just to see what it would look like. Thought also crosses my mind that this would be getting into the same problem as rockhounder's logo - covering up all the orange on the vest.

 

Another name/logo variation that I'll toss out for consideration would be either "Geocaching Benchmark Recovery Team" or "Geocac Benchmark Recovery Team". Not as any kind of direct reference to geocaching.COM (the website/company), but rather because Geocaching/Geocac are the identifiers that show up in the NGS datasheets for recoveries reported by the people here. Thinking of it as an identity, not an endorsement.

[+bicknell]

Thinking out loud, but perhaps "GEOCAC Benchmark Recovery", again, as GEOCAC is what appears on the NGS data sheets in the end.

 

I'm thinking since you made the logo out of a triangulation station disk we should make up some "I'm with stupid" t-shirts with reference mark disks on them for those who tag along.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

I like the GEOCAC Benchmark Recovery wording or perhaps GEOCAC Volunteer Benchmark Search Team.

 

As we've seen from some 'newbie' posts here, the term "recovery" is an example of 'survey-speak' that can cause some people to assume it means taking something - definitely not what we're wanting to communicate.

 

Of course, there's always this possibility:

Benchmark Search In Fescue

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

 

How about this one?

It can be changed easily.

[+Munin]

A couple of 'GEOCAC' variation:

 

 

Maybe ditch the year on the second one...just experimenting with a sort of 'stamped' design...

 

...we should make up some "I'm with stupid" t-shirts with reference mark disks on them for those who tag along.

 

 

...the term "recovery" is an example of 'survey-speak' that can cause some people to assume it means taking something - definitely not what we're wanting to communicate.

...wait...you mean I'm NOT supposed to be taking the disks home with me?

 

Joking, joking!

 

"Search Team"...yeah, that'd work for me...

[+bicknell]

I'm rolling on the floor over here. That's too funny.

 

Perhaps a more accurate title:

 

"Benchmark Documentation Volunteer"

 

or

 

"Benchmark Location Hunter"

 

or

 

"GEOCAC Survey Marker Documentation Team"

[Bill93]

If people don't understand RECOVERY, how about

BENCHMARK REPORTING

VOLUNTEER

 

or

 

BENCHMARK INVENTORY

VOLUNTEERS

[evenfall]

Back to my.02.

 

Trust me, The Plain vest is going to serve the best. Really.

 

You are not officially sanctioned by anyone. No one will vouch for you. NGS has said they will not assume responsibility, in fact when pressed they will back away at high speed. Geocaching already has a vest, they are for sale so they can make money. Want one? Buy it. It is an officially authorized garment.

 

You are on your own, no business no license no insurances no nothing. Why give the public someone to assign responsibility and liability on for something you didn't even do. It happens. Someone will see a finger in their Chili and name you as the culprit.

 

Trust me when I say I have seen this happen in my career. Why bring it on yourself?

 

Trucking operators would love to avoid the law that says they need a company name on the door. There are times it is good to be anonymous.

 

Generic... Think Generic, keep it simple.

 

Geocaching probably won't license the use of their logo without remuneration.

 

Rob

Edited June 17, 2005 by evenfall

[+bicknell]

Geocaching already has a vest, they are for sale so they can make money. Want one? Buy it. It is an officially authorized garment.

Color me unobservant, but I never noticed. I poked around a bit, and finally found them. Click Here to see some of the items for sale, including vests.

 

My only minor complaint is that since benchmarks are close to roads I'd prefer at least an ANSI class II vest, perhaps I'll suggest that to Jeremy, maybe he can already get them from his supplier.

[+NorthWes]

Wow - what a volume of thought! I'm a sales guy for Warning Lites of Alaska - mostly signs, but I sell 'wonders' like ANSI 2 vests as well to Alaska's roadbuilders. That's what I do now when I'm not benchmarking or geocaching...

 

I'm 100% with Evenfall's comments - no name vest keeps it simple and leave no trace of your visit! As for quality, well - survey vests are stout and can carry all the gear we usually end up carting around on these hunts. The ones on the Groundspeak sale page are the bottom of what we sell where I work - they are barely reflective, and have no carrying capacity, and are not up to Federal specs for worker safety and protection. In Alaska, if there's state or federal money involved on the job, it's likely the contractor has a thousand-dollar fine in the work contract for employees who show up on site without their Personal Protective Equipment, including their safety vests. I like to wear lime green - the orange stuff blends in on a job site with all the cones, barrels, delineators... you become one more orange target.

 

An added plus to a quality vest like these - it's stupendously mundane everyday appearance makes you actually LOOK like you belong out there along roadsides... great cover for those 'naked' caches! I carry an orange highway cleanup trash bag, and look just like a guy sentenced to road cleanup labor because of a misdeamenor offense... when I really want to look official, I just add my white hardhat festooned with safety stickers and reflective tape, and carry one of those clipboards that looks like it holds a phone book and your lunch too. Great for organizing maps, printouts, and spare batteries, and you don't need to drag the 'cache bag' along with kids toys hanging out of it! I carry my work business cards, and an intro to geocaching flier. Hasn't failed me yet... along highways, on public areas of the big airport, on the public portions of the military bases, and in neighborhood parks. Great for safety, and great cammo too.

 

Never miss the primary point - be visible to drivers when you're in the road right of way - you're gambling with your life if you ignore dressing for safety success!

[+Red_Cedars]

I'm with the "anonymous is better crowd", but have to say I really got a laugh out of this one.

 

R_C

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Munin's 'Volunteer Minion' logo reminds me of the 'I'm with Stupid --->' shirts from a few years back.

 

 

I'm still giggling looking at it.

[+Red_Cedars]

What about using an embroidered patch? Then you could just sew it on to whatever you like; vest, hat, boxer shorts, whatever. Ony trouble I've seen is that most places have a minimum order of 50 and price breaks don't happen until 100 or more. It'd take a LOT of interest to make it worth while.

 

R_C

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

 

What he said.