daniel1948 Posted June 10, 2005 Posted June 10, 2005 I am a complete neophyte at this. I bought a Magellan eXplorist 500 the day before yesterday, primarily for hiking. I've used a compass, but when the trail twists and turns, a compass doesn't tell me much, and it's useless to decide which fork leads back. So now that I've got the thing I figured I'd try out geocaching. But my question regards the gadget itself: I selected the eXplorist 500 on the advice of the store salesman, as the sales staff at this store are generally knowledgeable and helpful and have always given me good advice in the past. But the owner's manual is useless. It tells you that you can do stuff, but mostly does not tell you how. IT DOES NOT EVEN TELL YOU WHICH WAY TO ATTACH THE USB CABLE!!! (The way that seems wrong is right!) Item: When you open a folder, it shows it being empty. You click on "Up One Level" and THEN the folder opens! Click on "Up One Level" again and you go back one level, as you should. Item: The manual says you will have the choice to create new folders, but sometimes you do and sometimes (mostly) you don't. I solved this one by managing folders from my computer while the unit is connected to the computer, but even that took time to figure out because there are three communications modes and the manual says NOTHING about which ones to use for which applications. Item: The accompanying software has almost no documentation, and when I try to use it to upload to the eXplorist, it creates folders I do not want. It is EXTREMELY tedious to open a long list of POIs downloaded from the web site, and then I have to save the list to my hard drive, and then use the computer to transfer to the eXplorist. Fortunately, when set for "File Transfer" the eXplorist looks like an external hard drive to the computer. Item: The eXplorist shows latitude and longitude to the thousandth of a degree, so that they increment or decrement by .001 every two or three steps, but it shows distance travelled only to tenths of a mile, which is 528 feet! It is therefore useless if you want to measure the precise distance of a route. (I had hopes of finding out, at long last, the exact distance of my jogging routes, so I would know my precisse running speed each day.) Item: My town is FLAT. Yesterday I walked one of my jogging routes. The elevation difference cannot be more than 8 or 10 feet, and is probably less than 3 feet over the route. But the altitude reading jumped all over the place as though I was Superman jumping over buildings. The elevation profile shows 200 feet of difference between Max and Min. While I was watching it and walking it would leap 20 or 30 feet in an instant, occasionally more. Item: On the first day, I went looking for my first cache (didn't find it: the river was up and I'd have needed hip waders) and on the way back the eXplorist suddenly said "Burn In" and "Press Enter" (or something like that, I didn't note the exact wording). No other keys did anything. Not Menu nor Esc. So I pressed Enter, and it went into some kind of testing mode. It said "Burn In Test" and then there was a list of initials and numbers, but nothing else happened. After 5 minutes or so I got tired of waiting so I took out the battery and replaced it, and since then it has been working fine. I offer the above by way of a review, and as preamble to my question: Is all this normal? Should I take it back and get a Garmin instead? (The store has a 30-day return policy.) Does anybody know what the "Burn In Test" was all about? The similarly-priced Garmin looked even more confusing than the eXplorist, and it was a bit larger, and I consider the small size a definite advantage. I'd welcome any comments / suggestions from experienced users. Thanks a bunch, and sorry to be so long-winded on my first post. Tomorrow I leave for a hiking trip in Scotland, so may have spotty or no internet access from the 13th to the 18th. Daniel Quote
+jacques0 Posted June 10, 2005 Posted June 10, 2005 Daniel: This link will get a more comprehensive pdf manual for you: http://www.magellangps.com/assets/manuals/...orist500_EN.pdf I don't have a 500, but there have been several informative threads on these forums: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...orist+500&st=50 The above link will give you the search results for threads mentioning the explorist 500 for the past 60 days, listed with the most recent first. It may be good to start with page 3 or so, then work forward to page 1. Otherwise, I'm sure you'll get lots of responses here to your query. Good luck and have a fun trip to Scotland. Quote
flir67 Posted June 10, 2005 Posted June 10, 2005 (edited) what do u need out of it. a map showing you the way back or just gps coordinates for marking trail spots? garmine has a joggers armband gps. I think the latest has a back track feature so you can find your way out if you decide to turn back. the 4/5/600 are good units and worth the money, every unit has qwerks. I had the burn-in thing happen to me today after I reset the unit. back up your maps and poi files. reset the unit and recalibrate. if the burn in test comes up exit out of it and you should see better results. let it sit a while after you recalibrate to update itself with all the satellite info. good luck Edited June 10, 2005 by flir67 Quote
+embra Posted June 10, 2005 Posted June 10, 2005 Much of what you described would be disappointing if you expected better, but I believe to be typical accuracy of handheld GPS units. I have found that a lot of people (and I can include myself) expect the precision of units that *can* deliver such accuracy, but cost thousands of dollars. It's actually pretty amazing that something costing a few hundred dollars can deliver so much. (How's that for a glass half-full perspective ) A few comments in response to yours: But the owner's manual is useless. It tells you that you can do stuff, but mostly does not tell you how. IT DOES NOT EVEN TELL YOU WHICH WAY TO ATTACH THE USB CABLE!!! (The way that seems wrong is right!) Yeah, Magellan's documentation has always stunk, especially for noobs. Customer support has seemed to be slipping, too, of late. The hardware is pretty good, though, and there's lots of help in places like this. We're trying to get a FAQ together to cover the trouble areas. Magellan seems to have overlooked the cable issue in their manuals, but they did get a pdf file up on their website when they eventually realized it. Item: When you open a folder, it shows it being empty. You click on "Up One Level" and THEN the folder opens! Click on "Up One Level" again and you go back one level, as you should. Item: The manual says you will have the choice to create new folders, but sometimes you do and sometimes (mostly) you don't. I solved this one by managing folders from my computer while the unit is connected to the computer, but even that took time to figure out because there are three communications modes and the manual says NOTHING about which ones to use for which applications. The interface has quirks, but I so appreciate the hierarchal nature of the folder system for organization that I've not really noticed--having *all* files within a single folder on my Meridian SD card was getting to be a problem). Once I set my folder system up, I've not needed to pay attention to it. I did (perhaps fortunately, from your description) add my folders into the existing folders in the unit, so I haven't been bothered by "extra" folders. Item: The eXplorist shows latitude and longitude to the thousandth of a degree, so that they increment or decrement by .001 every two or three steps, but it shows distance travelled only to tenths of a mile, which is 528 feet! It is therefore useless if you want to measure the precise distance of a route. (I had hopes of finding out, at long last, the exact distance of my jogging routes, so I would know my precisse running speed each day.) True of most GPS units, I would expect. The trip odometer is not so accurate at slower speeds. However, the track should be pretty good...if I upload to a mapping program, I think I can get a measure to .01 miles, which is acceptable to me. Item: My town is FLAT. Yesterday I walked one of my jogging routes. The elevation difference cannot be more than 8 or 10 feet, and is probably less than 3 feet over the route. But the altitude reading jumped all over the place as though I was Superman jumping over buildings. The elevation profile shows 200 feet of difference between Max and Min. While I was watching it and walking it would leap 20 or 30 feet in an instant, occasionally more Typical of GPS use...they're good for lat/long, but the elevation calculation from satellites is a tough one and not to the same degree of accuracy. Units with built-in altimeters, like the 600 *might* be better on this. Item: On the first day, I went looking for my first cache (didn't find it: the river was up and I'd have needed hip waders) and on the way back the eXplorist suddenly said "Burn In" and "Press Enter" (or something like that, I didn't note the exact wording). No other keys did anything. Not Menu nor Esc. So I pressed Enter, and it went into some kind of testing mode. It said "Burn In Test" and then there was a list of initials and numbers, but nothing else happened. After 5 minutes or so I got tired of waiting so I took out the battery and replaced it, and since then it has been working fine. It shouldn't do that, but at least a few other people have reported the phenomenon. If it happens much more, I'd exchange or return it. Quote
+briansnat Posted June 10, 2005 Posted June 10, 2005 (edited) I am a complete neophyte at this. I bought a Magellan eXplorist 500 the day before yesterday, primarily for hiking. I've used a compass, but when the trail twists and turns, a compass doesn't tell me much, and it's useless to decide which fork leads back. Topo software might make your unit more useful for hiking. It has some trails (mostly long established, major ones) and the contour lines can help tell which fork to take if you are familiar with how trails are laid out. tem: My town is FLAT. Yesterday I walked one of my jogging routes. The elevation difference cannot be more than 8 or 10 feet, and is probably less than 3 feet over the route. But the altitude reading jumped all over the place as though I was Superman jumping over buildings. The elevation profile shows 200 feet of difference between Max and Min. While I was watching it and walking it would leap 20 or 30 feet in an instant, occasionally more. Units that use the sats to determine altitude are not particularly accurate. Units with a barometric altimeter will be much more accurate (eXplorist 600, Meridian Platnium, Garmin 60CS, 76CS, eTrex Vista and Vista C.) Is all this normal? Should I take it back and get a Garmin instead? (The store has a 30-day return policy.) That's up to you. The eXplorist is one of the better GPS units around. You may find Garmin's interface to be easier to use and more intuative. The Legend C, Map76C and Map 60C are units in the Garmin line that will compare with the eXplorist 500. if you want a barometric altimeter the ones mentioned earlier would be ones to consider. Edited June 10, 2005 by briansnat Quote
+EScout Posted June 10, 2005 Posted June 10, 2005 Regarding the folders. Make sure that you set up sub-folders within the main folder for the type of file. So for Routes files and folders, put them under the main Route folder. For more accurate distance, use the Tracking feature. At the beginning of a hike/run/walk, clear the track log. At the end of hike, save the track log to a file. Even if you do not save, you can Menu>Track Log, and highlight the the active track and it will show the distance in one-hundredths of a mile (.01 Mile.) You can also highlight any saved track and it will do the same. However, if your track is over 9.99 miles, it will show to the tenth of a mile (.1 mile.) Some other points: For more accuracy in distance, in the map setup, set the Track Mode to Auto Detailed or .01 mile. You can convert Saved Tracks to routes. This can be handy if you want to follow the exact path you did in your track file. Highlighting routes will also show the distance in one hundredths of a mile. Using the Advanced Features>Vertical Profile will also show the distance, and vertical profile chart for the active track and any saved track. This is a fun feature. If you have Topo 3d, you can also do a vertical profile for any saved routes. Regarding the "burn in" situation, I had this happen once. Probably caused by some accidental combination of keys pushed. No problem since. Quote
daniel1948 Posted June 10, 2005 Author Posted June 10, 2005 Thanks for all the helpful replies! Thanks for the link to the PDF users manual. I've downloaded it now. I wonder why they didn't mention that link in the print manual that comes with the unit. My main use will be hiking. Once I have the Topo maps it should help me find my way around. In the mean time at least it will guide me back, using backtrack, should that be necessary, and tell me how far I've walked. Recalibrate? I find no reference to that anywhere. How do I do that, and when is it necessary? I'm willing to accept the lack of vertical accuracy, as long as I know it's a limitation of the technology, and not a defect in my unit. I'm going to be doing some mountain hiking though (nothing technical, but some decent elevation gains) and I wonder what is the accuracy of the satellite-based altitude calculations? Thanks for the tip on getting more precise distance readout. I'm not sure the vertical profile is much use when my walk yesterday, over absolutely flat city terrain, looked like a seismograph of the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. All in all, though, it sounds like the unit is doing what it's supposed to do, and is comparable (as the salesman told me) with the Garmin units; in which case the smaller size of the eXp500 may be the deciding factor in keeping it. With luck, the pdf owners manual will answer my other questions about how to use all those features. Daniel Quote
Eddy [UK] Posted June 10, 2005 Posted June 10, 2005 Hi daniel1948, I've found with my Magellan Sportrak Pro that the altitude and trip counter are both affected by how well the unit is carried - much more so than the Lat/Lon. My unit has a quad-helix antenna so wants to be carried vertically. The Explorists have a patch antenna so yours will want to be carried horizontally i.e. face-up. The unit ideally wants a perfect view of the sky from directly above you down to the horizon and for 360 degrees around you. GPS was designed for controlling flying bombs - our use for walking is beyond it's original concept. If you put it in your pocket your body is shielding it from about half the sky so you will get a poor altitude log. If you hang it on a cord around your neck your body will shield it AND also it will be vertical. If you hold it in your hand so you can conveniently look at it, your head, neck and shoulders are covering part of the sky. A reasonable compromise is to attach it to the shoulder strap of your rucksack so it sits on your shoulder - don't forget that in your case it wants to be level. To put some numbers:- if I carry my unit in my pocket I have seen +/-10% errors in the trip counter and frequent errors of 40m or more in altitude. With it on my rucksack shoulder strap I get about +/-4% errors in the trip counter and a few errors of 20m in altitude. With the unit having an unobstructed view of all the sky I typically get about +/-1% errors in the trip counter and tiny errors in altitude (well within the Spec for the device). After much experimenting I now walk with my unit on a short pole sticking up above my rucksack so the top of the unit is level with the top of my head. Yes I look a Geek, but I get excellent tracks for Lat/Lon AND for altitude and the trip counter. It's also actually very convenient in use. We'd never have got to the moon etc. if we were worried about looking like Geeks. And it's a good conversation starter when I meet other country walkers. If you want to accurately measure the distance of your jogging routes, set the track to record every 0.01km and then download the track into mapping software like GPS Utility or similar and get it from that - this will be much more accurate than the distance reported by the unit. Enjoy your new GPSr, but be aware of its limitations. There is a big learning curve to get the best from it. All the best, Eddy [uK] Quote
+diverhank Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 One thing for sure is that you can customize the lat/long to your liking (e.g. to show in DD MM.MMM or whatever. GPS altitude is unreliable in any unit, Garmin, Magellan...it doesn't matter. Since you are a runner, you might want to get another GPS (in addition to) - the Garmin Forerunner 201. I have one and it's great for runners. It keeps track of your distance, pace, calories burn, etc. It also gives you interval training and a virtual partner. You can specify a running speed/pace for your virtual partner and it will tell you how well you are compared to your partner. Quote
daniel1948 Posted June 11, 2005 Author Posted June 11, 2005 Wow! That's very interesting about the accuracy! I never would have thought that carrying it with the "wrong" orientation would affect the trip distance by so much. I don't think I'll go to the lengths (pun intended!) of mounting it on a pole, but it's good to know that precise distances are not its strong point. In fact, I was carrying it sometimes horizontally, to look at it (I had to have it facing forward for the compass and direction to POI to point correctly), sometimes just swinging freely in my hand, and sometimes in my pocket. But I'm encouraged to know that the (very short) distance I obtained for my jogging route may be wrong. I was afraid I was running MUCH slower than I had previously thought, and this means I may not be, after all. I think what I'll do is get a fix on the corners where I turn, and either calculate the distances manually, or (after I've read the pdf manual) feed them in and get a route distance from that. I only need to do this once. For daily use, all I need to know is the point exactly a mile from home, since if I know my pace for the first and last mile I know how fast I'm running. I don't need or want a unit to carry while jogging. Just my own private survey points at one mile, for each of my jogging routes. And for hiking, the ability to navigate by the maps (once I have them) and to backtrack if necessary. Daniel Quote
+embra Posted June 11, 2005 Posted June 11, 2005 There are two ideas that occurred to me while reading your post, daniel1948 (I must be max1951, howdy-do): 1. If you are jogging straight lines (e.g., city blocks), you could put a POI down for home and set a goto to it. The map display should show when you are 1 mile (or whatever) away from it as you get further and further away. 2. You can create a new track as suggested above. At the end of the jogging route (have to watch my overlapping terms here), create a backtrack route from the existing track. This should tell you the overall length even though there are turns within it. You *might* need to change a data field somewhere to show total distance, but the route activation might bring it up by default. Bear in mind that this may still underestimate the total distance, but it may be pretty close. It depends how curvy the route is. This way would do what it sounds like you are planning to do, but do it for you automatically. Backtrack essentially creates a leg wherever it thinks there was a great enough deviation from a straight line to better conform to the track. If you're turning corners on blocks, it will create a POI and a new leg for the backtrack route. BTW, GPS orientation can play a significant role in mariginal reception conditions. But with good conditions, I wouldn't worry about it. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.