<b>JUST GOT STOMPED</b>

January 19, 2003

Back on January 2, 2003 I posted a question about dangerous caches. Dangerous Cache Post I visit a cache site where I felt it was unsafe. I posted a note on the cache site and here. I also emailed the cache owner. The cache owner never replied to my email. After reading the replies to my post I retracted my note from the cache and went on about my merry way.

Yesterday, I set out two caches. It is in a swampy area near my home. First thing this morning I get a note posted on my cache. Ruddock Rendezvous The accused me of place a cache on posted land, near active railroad tracks, getting him arrested etc.

Is the note true?? Retaliation? A joke?? Serious?? I was very careful when I placed this cache. I visited the site three times. When I actually planted the caches yesterday I took a novice with me to insure the GPS readings were good. The person attempting to visit the cache seems to be of good character with a good number of finds.

Right now, I plan to retrieve all of my caches. Archive all of my caches. Withdraw my membership and persue my sailing.

This activity seems to be too elitist for me to continue. Thanks for the fun I had.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

January 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:
Back on January 2, 2003 I posted a question about dangerous caches. http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000900883&m=8180980445 I visited a cache site where I felt it was unsafe. I posted a note on the cache site and here. I also emailed the cache owner. The cache owner never replied to my email. After reading the replies to my post I retracted my note from the cache and went on about my merry way.

Yesterday, I set out two caches. It is in a swampy area near my home. First thing this morning I get a note posted on my cache. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=48666 The accused me of placing a cache on posted land, near active railroad tracks, getting him arrested etc.

Is the note true?? Retaliation? A joke?? Serious?? I was very careful when I placed this cache. I visited the site three times. When I actually planted the caches yesterday I took a novice with me to insure the GPS readings were good. The person attempting to visit the cache seems to be of good character with a good number of finds.

Right now, I plan to retrieve all of my caches. Archive all of my caches. Withdraw my membership and persue my sailing.

This activity seems to be too elitist for me to continue. Thanks for the fun I had.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

Fair winds, Capn Skully

38.2k · January 19, 2003

quote:
Right now, I plan to retrieve all of my caches. Archive all of my caches. Withdraw my membership and persue my sailing.

You're awfully thin skinned. One person has a bad experience with one of your caches and you're out?

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

January 19, 2003

while it sounds like your first finder has reason to be very upset I think they are misplacing their anger. I think I would have a word with that police officers superiors.

In short, I think you are overreacting a bit. If you need to blow off some steam take some time off. But I honestly don't see how you can blame the whole geocaching community for this incident which will only amount to a little blurb in the whole of your life.

Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore

January 19, 2003

quote:
You're awfully thin skinned. One person has a bad experience with one of your caches and you're out?

Yes, when people work together to keep others out, to discriminate against people that are aren't in the "cliche" that is wrong plain and simple.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

January 19, 2003

If I'd had an experience like that of the cache finder, I suppose I might also conclude that it was a dangerous cache. It seems, however, that it's the local constabulary that is dangerous, not the cache itself. I didn't read the finder's comments as an accusation that you were trying to get him arrested, but a fair warning to anyone else who might be in this area (in the same way that I warn people away from a county in Arkansas that I was unceremoniously escorted out of years ago) Although it would make sense to reconsider the placement of this cache I don't think it makes sense at all for you to bail out of the sport altogether because of this one experience. I don't read the comments as an attack on you at all.

Hang in there, Skully

Where am I going? I don't quite know.

What does it matter where people go?

Down to the wood where the blue-bells grow-

Anywhere, anywhere. I don't know.

-A.A. Milne

January 19, 2003

BTW. Am I in the 'cliche'? If not. Can I join,huh? PLEEEZZEEE?

P.s. Cap'n Skully I'm just ribbing you a little. We still love you. Please return to us and we will all have a group hug.

Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore

January 19, 2003

I'll wait and see...

The poster stated he was in the area 10:30 PM and returned at 4:30 AM when the incident happened. At 4:30AM I would be very suspicious of someone poking around in the woods. Especially in that area.

All of my caches stay archived until I find a local cacher with more experience to visit them with me. If he says they are ok then I't reset them. I'll post a note on Louisiana section to get volunteers.

Thanks Gary

Fair winds, Capn Skully

January 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:

The poster stated he was in the area 10:30 PM and returned at 4:30 AM when the incident happened. At 4:30AM I would be very suspicious of someone poking around in the woods. Especially in that area.

Sounds like a first finder to me!

Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore

3k · January 19, 2003

It sure sounds to me like someone is playing "payback" for your log to the cache; especially if the username was not one you are familiar with in your area.

You ask is the log true. I assume you determined your cache was not on posted land before placing it ... does one stage of the cache in fact require a 2 mile trespass as described? You stated the cache is near your home. Have you heard of the police often removing bodies from the area? For the park, are there posted hours of operation?

If you know the contents of the log are untrue, then just delete it and ignore the troublemaker ... if they persist, file a complaint with the site administrators.

Actually, I'm sort of surprised you just received a fraudulent log to your cache page ... up here, "payback" seems to take the form of plundering more-often-than-not, so consider yourself lucky!

If the problem continues, you could always create a separate account to use for hiding caches ... but play fair and don't log your own caches.

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on January 19, 2003 at 08:49 AM.]

January 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
It sure sounds to me like someone is playing "payback" for your log to the cache; especially if the username was not one you are familiar with in your area.

I assume you determined your cache was not on posted land before placing it. If so, just ignore the trouble maker and delete any suspicious logs.

Actually, I'm sort of surprised you just received a fraudulent log to your cache page ... up here, "payback" seems to take the form of plundering more-often-than-not, so consider yourself lucky!

If the problem continues, you could always create a separate account to use for hiding caches ... but play fair and don't log your own caches.

You seem to catch on to my reasoning. Perhaps I am shooting off my mouth too quick. I am really upset about this because I believe in following the rules, especially posted land and railroads.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

3k · January 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:
... I am really upset about this because I believe in following the rules, especially posted land and railroads.

There you have it. Reactivate your cache and delete that and any similar logs ... after your cache has a legitimate hit or two, they won't be able to continue their charade.

January 19, 2003

I would at least try to clear up the matter with the logger first. He does have a couple finds under his belt. Perhaps its just a newbie mistake on his part too. He must have some inkling that poking around during that time of the day will arouse the suspcion of the police. If he was trespassing or visiting a park after hours it's the policeman's job and duty to ask him some hard questions.

Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore

January 19, 2003

Sounds sorta scammy to me. I'd re-activate the cache, and leave the log as well. Maybe update the description to say list the hours the park is open.

Are any of the things in the log true? Do police deliberately target this area? Is it a "body dumping ground" or whatever?

Your original cache description says nothing of the sort, and I know that hiding a cache is more time consuming than just finding it. You can spend a few hours just walking in a way that police may find "aimless", and that's a perfect time to be scrutized. yet you weren't...

----------

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be also be like him.

January 19, 2003

Did you get permission to place the cache?

Would giving parking coordinates help to defuse the situation?

Have you gone to the police to inquire about the incedent, the aligations? Or, to explain the activity?

We just installed new skylights. The folks in the upper flat are upset.

1.6k · January 19, 2003

Sounds very suspicious to me. First, you don't have to go after a cache. Second, I'm sure they got hancuffed for no reason. Third, probably didn't have any caching paraphernalia, like GPS, logbook, printout, swag, right?

Seems like a situation of placing blame somewhere other than where it belongs.

I say put the caches back online and let other cachers go for it.

If nothing else, call up the police department and talk to them. See what they have to say.

CR

January 19, 2003

I took an experienced cacher out to the area and let him find both caches. I did have an error on the West coordinates that would have landed the poor fellow out in the middle of a bayou. It would not have put him on posted land or near the any railroad tracks.

Also the visitor was visiting the area at 10:30PM and he returned at 4:30AM according to his email. I feel vindicated that I placed the cache properly and followed the rules.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

6.5k · January 19, 2003

I think using a bloated floater is a very innovative place to hide a cache!

quote:
The area has been known as a place to dump bodies. There hasn't been any bodies found for several years, because the police patrol the area very heavily. Especially at NIGHT!!

Be careful what you wish for!

January 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by wimseyguy:
I think using a bloated floater is a very innovative place to hide a cache!

quote:
The area has been known as a place to dump bodies. There hasn't been any bodies found for several years, because the police patrol the area very heavily. Especially at NIGHT!!

Be careful what you wish for!

It isn't exactly a secret. In Louisiana anyway, all you have to do is watch TV, read the paper, listen to the radio or a local gossip. Your sense of humor I can understand. Cache Bashing I don't.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

38.2k · January 19, 2003

quote:
Yes, when people work together to keep others out, to discriminate against people that are aren't in the "cliche" that is wrong plain and simple.

From what you wrote, this guy is simply a jerk who posted a false log. There is no "clique" here that looks to discriminate against people. We are a group that welcomes new participants. Hey, it's more caches for us to find and more people to find our caches. There was a geocacher in our area who ran into something similar. Several of his caches had a logs from another geocacher who described the dangers he encountered; from some agressive snake that attacked his son, to a booby trap set near another of his caches. They were lies and his guess was that it was a co-worker having some "fun" at his expense.

Heck, we have many thousands of registered geocachers on this site. You're gonna get some jerks and losers scattered among any group of this size. You're best bet is to ignore them. They eventually go away if they are ignored.

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

January 19, 2003

if you read this guy's logs you will find out that he seems to like night caching. Unfortunately for him, he also seems to have a talent for close calls with police. He just got unlucky this time.

Have you heard back from him, Cap'n? It'd be a shame if you couldn't iron things out.

Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore

January 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:
Did you get permission to place the cache?

Would giving parking coordinates help to defuse the situation?

Have you gone to the police to inquire about the incedent, the aligations? Or, to explain the activity?

We just installed new skylights. The folks in the upper flat are upset.

I don't think they want to answer your question. Even though it is the first thing that should of been done. Then there would of been no worries.

________________________________________________________________________

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes.

January 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrownMule:

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:
Did you get permission to place the cache?

Would giving parking coordinates help to defuse the situation?

Have you gone to the police to inquire about the incedent, the aligations? Or, to explain the activity?

We just installed new skylights. The folks in the upper flat are upset.

I don't think they want to answer your question. Even though it is the first thing that should of been done. Then there would of been no worries.

_________________________________________________________________________

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes._

http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/15777_2200.gif

1. No I didn't get permission

2. The second part provides the parking coordinates.

3. I have not contacted the police. Geocaching.com admins are contacting the police tomorrow. They will keep the caches offline until they are satisfied.

The person making the note on the cache has emailed me and explained that he was there 10:30PM and 4:30AM. The caches are at least 8 miles from the nearest town, they are not on posted land or railroad property. The cache warning I posted states there may be high water in the area at times. No different than fifty other caches in Louisiana.

It is all in the hands of the Geocaching Admins... that is the final word.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

January 19, 2003

Here are the thoughts of a completely (im)partial bystander.

First off, I guess I should say I’ve emailed both of the folks involved on different subjects and even talked with one on the phone. Both (no offense intended) are relative newbies.

My take on this whole situation is that the original poster had absolutely nothing to gain by posting a ‘bad’ log, so I figure his note is true. Also, from what I’ve discerned from this user is that he seeks caches late at night. So basically, if he says he ran into trouble (cops at night) in search of this cache, I believe him. BTW, this area HAS had its share of dumped bodies in the past.

On the other hand, I think the Capn had nothing but the best intentions when placing this cache. I have offered to visit the location (and log a find of couse ) and give him my opinion on the subject.

I hope we can work this out. It’s my opinion that both folks involved had nothing but the best intentions in mind. Maybe I’m an optimist, but I’m hoping this is just a big misunderstanding. I like to think of this as a friendly sport. I’d hate to see someone leave with a bad taste in their mouth.

Geez, I’ve had too many beers tonight! Capn, give me a call and lets talk!

Russell

24.7k · January 19, 2003

$hit happens. You are over-reacting. You have cause to reconsider this one cache but if you are pulling everything because one person got themselves cuffed and had an adventure they would not have the pleasure of if not for your cache then good luck.

If I was arrested due to a cache, you can bet I'd log it. It's all part of the adventure.

Your caches are your own. You can pull them if you like to leave them for people to enjoy. Sooner or later someone is going to get killed in this sport. I've already heard of a broken leg. That cache posted his adventure and that he converted his Dr. to Geocaching in the process. Eventually someone will get killed geocaching. Someone could fall, land on stick just so and shove it throgh their eye and into their brain and that's all she wrote. It wouldn't be a reason in and of itself to archive the cache.

Live, learn, move on.

Wherever you go there you are.

38.2k · January 20, 2003

quote:
Eventually someone will get killed geocaching.

Someone already did. Check the west/southwest forums.

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

January 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
$hit happens. You are over-reacting. You have cause to reconsider this one cache but if you are pulling everything because one person got themselves cuffed and had an adventure they would not have the pleasure of if not for your cache then good luck.

You are 110% correct, I over reacted. In my efforts to solve this issue the Geocaching.com admins have stepped in. Both caches, "Ruddock Rendezvous" and "Isthmus of Ruddock" are archived but not by my choice. I feel certain the admins will keep them archived.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

January 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

quote:
Eventually someone will get killed geocaching.

Someone already did. Check the west/southwest forums.

_"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant_

I checked the West/Southwest forums and didn't see any such threads, but I may have missed it. Could you post a link?

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

January 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lyra:

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

quote:
Eventually someone will get killed geocaching.

Someone already did. Check the west/southwest forums.

_"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant_

I checked the West/Southwest forums and didn't see any such threads, but I may have missed it. Could you post a link?

Nevermind...I found it.

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

January 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:
Back on January 2, 2003 I posted a question about dangerous caches.

......snip........

Right now, I plan to retrieve all of my caches. Archive all of my caches. Withdraw my membership and persue my sailing.

This activity seems to be too elitist for me to continue. Thanks for the fun I had.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

Sounds like a pretty cool cache to me. I thought your warnings were appropriate and helpful. Not a cache for everybody, but some would love it!

While it's a real ego-boost to read logs where your cache is praised, I guess we all get logs from time to time from someone we've made un happy. So be it. I really don't think geocachers are 'elitist' at all. Just sounds like your first seeker was a bad fit for your specific cache. Not really that big of a deal.

Keep on caching (really),

Bluespreacher

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

January 20, 2003

In my opionion (and that is as a newbie who has not yet placed a cache - but as a police officer with about twenty years doing what it do) I think it is not prudent to place a cache near ANY known criminal acitvity. The fact that you place the proviso to stay away at night means nothing to me - cache placement near known criminal activity (body dumping, stolen car dumping, drug sales) just does not stike me as a good idea or instilling the family values of geocaching. Just what I think - HAPPY CACHING!!!

Does the walker choose the path, or the path, the walker? - Sabriel, by Garth Nix

January 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by NetDep:
In my opionion (and that is as a newbie who has not yet placed a cache - but as a police officer with about twenty years doing what it do) I think it is not prudent to place a cache near ANY known criminal acitvity. The fact that you place the proviso to stay away at night means nothing to me - cache placement near known criminal activity (body dumping, stolen car dumping, drug sales) just does not stike me as a good idea or instilling the family values of geocaching. Just what I think - HAPPY CACHING!!!

Does the walker choose the path, or the path, the walker? - Sabriel, by Garth Nix

I agree with you there as well. Just to go off the deep end then... we shouldn't place caches in Louisiana, the whole place is lousy with crooks our former governer has just been sent to the federal pen.

The area in question, is not as bad as it sounds, there is a public park sponsored by the sheriff's office. In the last few years the entire area has seen many security improvements, including police patrols. People used to use the area as a garbage dump, the dumps have been cleaned up and stay clean. There is a public boat ramp about 100 yards from the park. The entire 20 mile stretch of road is used by hunters, fishermen, hikers, long distance runners, cyclists.

All the warning posts were made simply because of one geocacher that doesn't have any common sense. Read his exploits. He brags about hiding from police and trespassing into closed parks. I shouldn't be prosecuted for the cache placement. I can point out many more caches that are more hazardous than these two caches.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

January 20, 2003

quote:
NetDep said: ....I think it is not prudent to place a cache near ANY known criminal acitvity.....

I understand where you're coming from, but that could be taken to eliminate just about every portion of public and private land in the country. Virtually every public park I know of has been used for drug deals at one time or other in recent history. How many national forests out west don't have areas where kids go to party, or drug sellers hide crops. Body dumping unfortunately seems to happen in just about any secluded area.

Use common sense, but if you get carried away worrying about it, you won't visit any major city, venture into the woods, or step out of doors for that matter.

For what it's worth

Jeff

January 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bluespreacher:

I really don't think geocachers are 'elitist' at all.

We'll I'm a bit elitist, but I'm the only one

I think the only problem with your cache is the guy geocaching at night wasn't able to easily explain geocaching to a suspicious officer. Another more eloquent speaker might not have had a problem. I've met up with law enforcement a couple of times and they've been quite friendly after hearing the explanation of what I was doing.

--- yrium ---

January 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:

You are 110% correct, I over reacted. In my efforts to solve this issue the Geocaching.com admins have stepped in. Both caches, "Ruddock Rendezvous" and "Isthmus of Ruddock" are archived but not by my choice. I feel certain the admins will keep them archived.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

Archived by the admins? Seems to me that this was an innocent mistake, given that you've discovered a problem with the coords that may have sent a relative newcomer on a windmill-tilting expedition that wound up with him encountering the local constable in the wee hours of the morning.

Maybe this wasn't the best of places to put a cache, but it seems like it was a simple case of ignorance of troubled real estate and nothing more. Admins? Please allow the Cap'n his customary phone call and release him on bail. He seems like a nice guy!

Always wear proper caching safety equipment!

January 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lyra:

Maybe this wasn't the best of places to put a cache, but it seems like it was a simple case of ignorance of troubled real estate and nothing more. Admins? Please allow the Cap'n his customary phone call and release him on bail. He seems like a nice guy!

I appreciate the support but I have to disagree on one point -- It is a great place to put a cache. It is not a great place to visit from 10pm at night until 1am and then returning at 4:30am to get apprehended by the police.

I took Big Hoss and his family there, they found the caches with no problem. We even saw a police car and I waved at him. Buck8Point has offered to visit the caches and verify the safety also.

I won't drop this until geocaching.com tells me yes or no. The ball is in their court.

Fair winds, Capn Skully

January 21, 2003

The geocaching admins have decided that the charges against my cache hides in Ruddock are unfounded. Both have been un-archived. They will continue to watch the caches to see if there is any more problems.

Ruddock Rendezvous

Isthmus of Ruddock

Thanks for the support and words of wisdom. Anyone that knows me, knows that I support safety first above all else. A person can not be a successful sailor for thirty years unless safety comes first.

Thanks again

Fair winds, Capn Skully

January 21, 2003

My cache has once again been archived.

Ruddock Rendezvous

Fair winds, Capn Skully

3.1k · January 21, 2003

It looks like it's just temporarily unavailable. You should be able to reactivate it yourself, right under the name of the cache when you look at the page.

Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann, und ich hab' auch im Blut

January 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dinoprophet:
It looks like it's just temporarily unavailable. You should be able to reactivate it yourself, right under the name of the cache when you look at the page.

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/

Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann, und ich hab' auch im Blut

THANKS IT IS BACK ONLINE!!!

Fair winds, Capn Skully

1.3k · January 26, 2003

Archived by the admins? Seems to me that this was an innocent mistake, given that you've discovered a problem with the coords that may have sent a relative newcomer on a windmill-tilting expedition that wound up with him encountering the local constable in the wee hours of the morning.

Where to begin. I'll begin by formally apologing to Captain Skully. I am sorry. It was not my intent to stir up such a mess.

I am new to the sport, and had no idea that clicking the "cache should be archived" button would send it to administration. I was attempting to be the first one to find a new cache and as soon as I noticed it, we set out to get it. The original cache description tells you to ADD impartial coordinates to the ones you use to find the first part of the cache. This we did. The new waypoint was in a lake! So, we replaced the old portions of the coordinates with the ones we found at the first location and got a new waypoint on posted land! We gave up and decided to try again another day. After a couple of hours back home one of my buddies sat bolt upright and said "I've got it!" It's on the railroad tracks! This made sense because tracks do indeed run on that side of the road. Another cachers log reflected our interpretation of the original cache instructions. So, we really wanted that first find and returned around 4:30. After much driving back and forth we stopped to wait for dawn to see if we were missing some kind of dry trail in the dark. About 7:10 we were walking back to the car (after daylight) and a police cruiser pulled up. It took a long time to explain to this guy what we were doing. He told us the place was used to dump bodies and as a dropoff point for stolen chemicals used in the manufacture of illicit drugs. We left, went home, and logged the cache. I stated my opinion that it was dangerous, cops have been known to mistake hanheld items for guns. My gps is a handheld item. I believe that we were being profiled, two young guys in a sports car. Mostly you see people towing boats with pickup trucks in the area. Interestingly enough, we spent several hours out there and the only cops we saw were the one that stopped us, and his "backup" which arrived thereafter. Both of these were shortly AFTER sunup. I wish I would have known to look in the forums when all this was fresh, but I just checked them out for the first time yesterday. So, my log was deleted from the cache page, but the cache descriptoin is no longer misleading and it prominently displays warnings about the nature of the area. Too bad it wasn't like that before, maybe I wouldn't look like the bad guy.

January 26, 2003

You take it upon yourself to be the safety police by posting to the forum what you personaly consider a dangerous cache, along an Interstate. Then you place a cache out in a snake and alligator infested swamp next to the railroad tracks and think this is not a problem? All I can say is "WoW". Over zealous cops can be an extreme danger. They have weapons and live in a slightly different world than you do. What might seem innocent to you can look very sinister in their eyes. If I had to take make a choice between getting shot by a cop, bit by a snake, eaten by an alligator or arrested by the railroad police and stopping on the shoulder of the hiway? Pretty much a no brainer.

Yes I have finds, yes I have hides and yes I'm a charter member. My wife will not let me use our account on the forums...don't know why.

1.3k · January 26, 2003

I am another member of the Bloen Customs Crew. My name is Dave if anyone wants to know. We are a tight knit crew of young guys who all play paintball together. We got into Geocaching a couple of months ago and have been doing it regularly since. I often bring my girlfriend and my friend brings his. I think its very fun and reasonably safe. We did not write that log to harm anyone or "cache Bash" anyone. I had never been to one of Capn'Skully's caches before. We had actually been thinking about placing a cache in this area ourselves. Anyway, what I want to do is retrace our steps of the night so all the people who want to put in their two cents can do it with some facts.

1. I got off work about 9:30.

2. I went over to Ron's house and Aaron and his 15 year old brother met us there.

3. At about 10:00 Ron found this brand new cache. We were psyched because we wanted a first find.

4 . We left and Arrived at the ruddock exit around 10:30.

5. we started at the launch and worked our way north on the old highway until we came to the park. (The Park is sponsored by the St. Johns Sheriff's office)

6. We found the trash can at the end of the crossing and wrote down the coordinates. We hurried back to the car because the temp. was in the the low 40's and it was very windy.

7. We got two sets of coordinates. One was with adding (N 30 13.420 , W 090 26.679) and the other was with substitution (N 30 11.317 , W 090 25.953 ). One put us in the middle of the lake and the other gave us a position east and south in the swamp. The original posting of the cache told us to add, so those are the numbers we got.

8. Disregarding the lake coordinates, we went south on the highyway until we were directly west of the the bayou coordinates. I carried my CamelBack which contains Four flashlights, a Garmin GPSmap 175, a bowie knife, a machete, paper, pens and a binder with the printouts of all the caches we have completed, and want to complete. I always carry these things with me sans the machete, but the posting told us that we might need to do a little bushwacking. The rest of the crew had Flashlights and also a Garmin etrex.

At the entry point that we chose, we saw one person's set of foot prints. They were very fresh.

We trekked into the swamp. On average the mud was up to our ankles. We lost one shoe. We trekked in .10 miles, at the end the mud was up to mid shin/calf area. we decide to turn in because it was very very cold, windy and the water was like Ice. We then turned around and went back to the car. It probably took at LEAST and hour to trek just 2 tenths of a mile. We were tired, cold, and angry that we couldn't find it, and the car was trashed with mud. We called it quits, stripped off all the muddy clothes and drove back to Metairie.

9. Back at home, Aaron and his little brother decide to call it quits for the night and head out. (2:00am)

10. After a couple of DVD's, I was almost asleep.

I then bolted upright with what we thought was Divine Intervention. The train tracks. It was the only way that some one could have gotten deep enough in that swamp to have placed a cache. In the original log he goes into great detail about how the old road is on a bed of clam shells. Now it make sense to me that maybe the Railroad is too, and that was a clue to us. So it is now like 4:00 am, but I am driving,(now you can condemn me for not following the speed limit, but thats how I drive.)

11. We get there around 4:15 am. There are some people at the boat launch, and trucks parked up and down the highway sporadically. We drove south on 51 for about a mile and a half, the road did turn towards the track some, but never got close enough to get on them, and it was too dark to see very far into the woods. We turned around and traveled back to the point that we stopped at last time. We looked around then decided to go north. About half a mile north, you can see the train tracks. This is just past the first big blue chemical tank. We couldn't see very well so we drove to Manchac and stopped at the Bar (alligator something?) They were closed, so we just sat and rested until about 6:30am. So far we had seen NO cops. Not one. Just fishermen and hunters.

12.According to the GPS, sunrise was at 6:50(? I am doing all this from memory so I am unsure about this detail.) so we turned back south and parked at the Park again. I got out and checked just to make sure that our calculations were correct. They were, according to what he told us to do. The sunrise was very pretty and I have pictures of that and the Trashcan that I took. We then decide to go north to the blue Chem tank and take a look.

13. We went a few hundred yards north and parked. I drive a 99 Honda Prelude. We got out and walked towards the railroad. Before we could get there we ran into a ditch that we couldn't cross. So we were going back to the car. Then a cop pulls up all of a sudden and tells us to stop where we were and all that. He asked us what we were doing, so Ron told him. I was allowed to go to my car to get the binder with the information and my insurance and registration. He then had us wait out side of the car to take all of our information. Height, build, tattoos, scars, clothing and a whole list of other stuff. So far, when he finished that, it had been about 45 minutes. Remember that its about 40 degrees outside and I am in shorts and a sweatshirt.

We then wait for another 20 or so minutes for "Backup" to arrive, we still were not allowed back in the car.

14. Back up arrives. He wants to take us back for "questioning". Apparently we were looking for anhydrous ammonia, not a geocache, and we have been traffiking drugs up and down I55.(?). I realize I am twenty and Ron is twenty eight, but not everyone is looking to get high. I can honestly say that I have not even sipped alcohol in almost 3 years. Anyway, after some time explaining everything again they told us to go, and if we came back we may be the next ones they find floating. They did also search the car. Luckily the machete got left in Ron's car.

15. We drove very, very carefully back to Metairie and Ron wrote our original log. I went to sleep.

I didn't write this to incite a riot. I just want people to understand that the cache page instructions we were following was different than the one that is now posted. I do not have a problem with any other cacher, though it does bother me that people always want to add there two cents when they don't have the facts. Feel free to respond, I would like your comments.

On a side note I do not lack common sense, or look for trouble, and the "police" at Audubon park were only looking for vagrants, and I did not want to explain what we were doing with flashlights or give away the position of the cache. Other people were still at the park. Also the "police" at Bayou Segnette Park were very interested in geocaching and were very friendly when looking for the "Bayou Puzzle". So we HAVE had good encounters with police.

In addition,I play Paintball with 8 firefighters, one FBI agent, Three police officers, a state trooper, one DEA agent, an Xavier Campus police officer(2nd district), and one or two levee district guys. So please don't tell me I have a problem with the police or other authority.

If we had not written what we did, other people may have had the same problem, written about it, and you would be on their case for "Cache Bashing".

What if we had chosen not to log our attempt? Could some one have gone out by themselves and gotten lost in the swamp? Because it WAS very very tricky out there.

In closing, I would like to repeat that I don't have a problem with any other cacher. We responded to 'Skully's email when this happened and he was on the same line that we were. He said he wanted to quit Geocaching and we told him to think about it first, that everyone has bad experiences. We have not quit, but have become more cautious. I am annoyed that no one contacted us so we could defend our position in this forum. We did not even know this discussion was taking place. If we feel a cache should be archived in the future, are we cache bashing? I will be very cautious now with what I include in a log and will stop writing about our "Adventures or Exploits". I thought it was fun to let other area cachers know what went on while looking for a cache, but apparently it should not be fun, or an adventure.(?)

P.P.S. If the area police had been notified before placing the cache would this have happened?

Or, if the directions on how to solve the puzzle had been correct would we have been out of there like a flash? (Warm, dry, and with a clean St. John's Record)

So please don't put all the blame on us. All we did was follow the instructions we were given and

try to find this cache first.

PLEASE RESPOND

<b>JUST GOT STOMPED</b>

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