Stealth Tacks

[+Birdsong-n-Bud]

Hi everyone,

 

We just put out a new night cache and I spent mucho bucks on the Firetacks stealth tacks so the tacks would match the trees in the daytime, preventing daytime finds. It cost nearly a dollar a tack after shipping.

 

I learned the hard way....they stink! They just plain don't reflect well. I had to go back and replace them all with the cheap Wal-mart (but very reflective) white tacks ("bright eye tacks"), which work great at night but are visible during the day with their obvious white. The poor FTF....a very experienced and sophisticated cacher whom I respect very much...could not find the stealth tack trail at night and ended up spending 3 hours on what should have been a 20 minute cache (definitely my fault, not his, of course). Because he is so persitent and practiced he was still able to find the final, but -- wow -- I felt bad. We immediately replaced the tacks.

 

SO, deflated and disappointed, I ask you this:

 

Has anyone here with a night cache purchased a reflective tack product that camouflages well and actually reflects brightly?? We really wanted something that was unfindable during the day, but the compromise wasn't worth it when they didn't work at night.

 

Disclaimer: of the firetacks, the orange and white prismatic sample they sent worked GREAT. VERY bright and reflective (but also extremely visible during the day). Their brown ones are gorgeously camouflaged during the day....but are basically non-reflective at night unless you hit it exactly right with exactly the right powered flashlight, where you then might get the faintest glint of a reflection).

 

*sigh*

 

I'm so bummed. We could barely find our own stealth tacks in the dark.

[+Marcie/Eric]

I remember you posting about ordering the tacks, B. As someone who is interested in Nightcache placement/seeking, I would like to know.. could you post some pics of them at night, or would that be impossible? I've been thinking of ordering some too, but after this story, maybe i'll stick with the 'unstealth' ones.

[+briansnat]

Interesting. I have 3 bags of Firetack Stealth Tacks that I purchased a year ago and have yet to use. Still looking for a good place. Thanks for the heads up though. I'll be sure to test them out before going live when I do place the cache.

[WH]

Hi everyone,

 

We just put out a new night cache and I spent mucho bucks on the Firetacks stealth tacks so the tacks would match the trees in the daytime, preventing daytime finds. It cost nearly a dollar a tack after shipping.

 

I learned the hard way....they stink! They just plain don't reflect well. I had to go back and replace them all with the cheap Wal-mart (but very reflective) white tacks ("bright eye tacks"), which work great at night but are visible during the day with their obvious white. The poor FTF....a very experienced and sophisticated cacher whom I respect very much...could not find the stealth tack trail at night and ended up spending 3 hours on what should have been a 20 minute cache (definitely my fault, not his, of course). Because he is so persitent and practiced he was still able to find the final, but -- wow -- I felt bad. We immediately replaced the tacks.

 

SO, deflated and disappointed, I ask you this:

 

Has anyone here with a night cache purchased a reflective tack product that camouflages well and actually reflects brightly?? We really wanted something that was unfindable during the day, but the compromise wasn't worth it when they didn't work at night.

 

Disclaimer: of the firetacks, the orange and white prismatic sample they sent worked GREAT. VERY bright and reflective (but also extremely visible during the day). Their brown ones are gorgeously camouflaged during the day....but are basically non-reflective at night unless you hit it exactly right with exactly the right powered flashlight, where you then might get the faintest glint of a reflection).

 

*sigh*

 

I'm so bummed. We could barely find our own stealth tacks in the dark.

Bad advice on my part. Please forgive me

[+Isonzo Karst]

What I've seen used is a red reflective tape. Looks to come in a roll, based on the assorted shaped rectangular pieces I've seen - by day the red is not real conspicuous against shaded tree bark, but at night it reflects nicely. I believe I was told that this is reflective tape for bikes and autos purchased at Walmart.

[+DaveA]

good to know, I was under the impression firetacks were da bomb, I even have them bookmarked in case I ever placed a night cache.

[+Strapped-4-Cache]

I've ordered and used the stealth firetacks and have been pleased with them. True, they don't reflect as brightly as the standard firetacks since they are designed to be muted during the daylight hours and only repond to a light shined directly at them. However, I have found that the use of a red filter on the lens of my flashlight or headlamp really makes the stealth firetacks light up. Granted, you don't get much useable light with a red filter, but you don't really want to lose all of your night vision when hunting a night cache either.

 

I admit that the night cache I set us isn't overly strenuous and that the trail to the cache isn't very far. However, I doubt that anyone can easily follow the trail in the hours before the daylight starts to fade. The earliest I've had people locate the cache is near dusk.

 

Before you write off the stealth firetacks, give the red filter trick a try. I discovered it by accident, but it works like a charm. Also, you can sometimes order the factory seconds at a reduced price, which ended up saving me a good bit of cash.

 

Good luck,

S-4-C

[+miles58]

Go to a Gander Mountain or Cabella's. Look in the fishing tackle section for prismatic tape to customize baits. It isn't camo, but it does come in lots of colors/patterns. You can match/blend into a lot of backgrounds.

[+c88m]

After reading this I'm gonna ask a few of my customers about getting some reflective vinyl and see how it works , the one thing I do know this stuff is not cheap , it runs about $200+ for a 15" x 10 yd roll . Let you know when I get it how it will work out there .

[+ChileHead]

I set one up and was very happy with the way it turned out, and so were the cachers who went to it. Fireflies

 

I thought they reflected very well. But you MUST be using a headlamp or hold a light hear your head. If you're holding the flashlight in yours hands the light doesn't reflect back to your eyes.

[+GSVNoFixedAbode]

I've used the firetacks on a couple of caches so far: here and here.*

 

A mix of the stealth and Ice bright tacks worked well. The stealth for close tacks (point to point) and the Ice for longer gaps in the trail, with orange at the destination or turns. Only problems so far are muggles grabbing the Ice tacks and a number of cachers mistaking the stealth for 'orange' .

 

From my experience and the cache logs I'd happily use them again, and that's with the international postage!

 

Cheers,

G.

* and for those who may have concerns there, the actual cache is outside the grounds

[+NorthWes]

As you can imagine, we really like reflective signs up here in Alaska... as a sign guy, I've learned a neat trick using the 3M engineer-grade Black reflective material. It's black in normal light but reflects back a bright silvery-gray when hit with a headlamp or flashlight beam under low/no light conditions. I'm planning to build a night cache using the black material - once we see true night again (maybe around late September...).

 

Check the material out at a local sign shop using quality vinyls such as 3M, Gerber, or Avery brands. The shops should be happy to sell you a square foot or two of material you can apply to tacks or slightly larger marker substrate materials.

[+hmarq]

I just placed my first cache with a night componnt and I used the stealth fire tacks ... so far they've worked well. They aren't completely invisible during the day, but you're hard pressed to see them unless closer than about 20 ft and know they're there.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...46-baeea6ba5502

 

So far two folks have done the night track and had no problems ... one even illicited a "Oh Cool!" ...

 

The ice white ones are much brighter, but they are also much more visible in daylight. They might be good agains a birch or white oak though ...

Edited June 11, 2005 by hmarq

[+Pablo Mac]

... as a sign guy, I've learned a neat trick using the 3M engineer-grade Black reflective material.

As another sign guy, I can get all kinds of colors of high-quality reflective vinyls. I do enough volume so that I get the same per yard price for one yard or one hundred. I'll test my black, green and brown reflectives tonight and report my findings on their potential for night caching here tomorrow.

 

I plan to put my first night cache together soon , and I'll cut 1"X2" rectangles of reflective vinyl and wrap them around tree branches, where they will all but disappear in daylight.

[+Lil Devil]

One thing you have to remember about the Firetacks, is they are "retro-reflective." That means they reflect back to the light source. If you hold your flashlight down near your waist, you won't get a reflection. But if you hold the flashlight up near your head, you should get an excellent reflection. A headlamp is even better.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Oh, well. I can't drive at night, so I don't do night caches... Well, except one... During the day.

"Look around to find the reflectorized trail." We finally saw the reflectors stuck in the trees. Since it was in an aborted cloverleaf, there wasn't too much territory to search.

[+Snake & Rooster]

I'll echo what Lil Devil said. Fire Tacks are retro-reflectors. If you hold a flashlight down at waist level, they are nearly invisible. If you bring your flashlight up to eye level, they are quite bright. I used both the stealth and ice-white and they show up great. You need to include directions in your cache that tells people to hold the light at eye level and everything will be fine.

[+Birdsong-n-Bud]

You need to include directions in your cache that tells people to hold the light at eye level and everything will be fine.

 

I wish that would have solved our problem. Unfortunately, we tried this without luck. When we went back to check on the tacks' placement and reflectivity, we brought about 5 flashlights of varying strenths (including a million watt blows-your-eyeballs-out flashlight), but saw only reflections on about 2 of the 50 or so tacks I placed. We were deliberately trying to move the tacks to the exactly-right level, and we were moving the lights up, down, and all around trying to figure out if anything might work. I was not quite sure what to do. I have to try the red filter paper that was suggested. We could always leave that at the beginning of the cache in a hidden container if it works well.

 

I thank everyone for their ideas. There are some interesting products mentioned here that I'm interested in investigating more. Pablo Mac's idea of the sign material is of particular interest to me, and if you can point me to a distributor of that product, I would be very interested in giving that a try.

 

WH, you are a riot, lol. There is nothing to forgive ....all your suggestions where absolutely wonderful, and I stand by them. I just regret the particular product I chose. I'm sure there has to be something else out there in the world that might work. We did incorporate your other suggestion into the cache as well, and really like the way that one worked (starting the 2nd trail of tacks from the waypoint given at the clue, and that 2nd trail of tacks leads to the cache).

 

I'm not sure whether I could actually take a photo of them...but there would be nothing to see at night. I think a piece of plain glass would reflect better on film than what happened with these. Disappointing, frustrating, deflating.

 

The good news is that after we placed the bright-eye (white) tacks, a family came to do the cache and were very excited about it. It went very, very well.

 

Thanks again, everyone. I learn lots here in the forums, thanks to fellow cachers sharing some terrific ideas freely.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I have used fire tacks for my night cache and they worked just fine for me. how far appart did you place them?

[+Birdsong-n-Bud]

how far appart did you place them?

 

In the beginning of the cache, we put them about 100 feet apart. At the very end of the trail we have a "swarm" of them (perhaps 20-25) in one small area. We were lucky to find two of them the night we went back.

 

I wonder if it is possible I had a bad batch?

 

We had one set of the pyramid-shaped ones, and one set of the cube-shaped ones. The pyramid ones I got on clearance for $4.99, and the sqare ones I paid full price for (about $10 a pack)...then there was shipping.

 

I reread the directions and they claim that they are so bright that you can put them further apart than regular reflective tacks. Maybe their white prismatics or their oranges, but I wouldn't say for the stealth ones.

 

Such a bummer. In any case, I'll not ever be buying those again.

[+Pablo Mac]

To expand on my previous post, the idea I mentioned included looping a strip of reflective material around small branches and adhering the material adhesive-to-adhesive. That makes for a very durable placement that will only come off with deliberate effort and it leaves two opposing reflective faces, in case you want people to be able to use the same reflectors on the way back from the cache.

 

- Pablo Mac

[+Snake & Rooster]

We used the pyramid shaped ones and they were fine. The website does sell batches at discount, I believe, and they are the ones that did not make it through QC. It is possible, I supposed that you got one of these substandard batches.

 

After setting ours out, we tested them ourselves and they worked great. Since people are finding the cache, I'm betting that they are working for others as well. Sorry yours don't seem to work.

[+bigdog999]

Birdsong-n-Bud, I noticed that on their website, they list the New Firetack Stealth Brite. Perhaps you got the older original Stealth Tacks.

[+Birdsong-n-Bud]

Birdsong-n-Bud, I noticed that on their website, they list the New Firetack Stealth Brite. Perhaps you got the older original Stealth Tacks.

 

Bigdog99, I'm really glad you said that. I will contact them and see which I received. You bring up a really good point! Thanks!

 

I *thought* I got the Stealth Brites, but maybe there was some mix-up.

 

Is anyone else having trouble accessing the website? For the past 2 days, I can get to their main site (Firetacks.com), but can't click on any links successfully.

[WH]

Is anyone else having trouble accessing the website? For the past 2 days, I can get to their main site (Firetacks.com), but can't click on any links successfully.

Its working fine now.

[+wandererrob]

I don't know how well this would work, but I'll throw it out there. A guy I knew was in the business of making stickers and decals and such. He had some material that was black in daylight and reflected white fairly well from what I saw at night. Perhaps something like that would work? Tack some strips to trees with small black thumbtacks?

[+c88m]

Well I got some reflective vinyl from some of my customers (in the sign business) they're ok in a dark room with a flashlite but I will try em outside to see if they will work .

Edited June 18, 2005 by c88m

[+flgAZ]

I just set a night cache up

Galaxies&Pines

I used the 'regular white" Firetacks and was pleased with how well they work and how in daylight they don't stick out in this envionment.

I'm in the high desert in Pondorosa Pines. Most of the reflectors I placed I put in trees 10 feet up (used a Mt bike as a step stool) and just payed attention where the shadows of the tree limbs fell. I think they blend in really well.