Unique Opportunity

June 5, 2005

Pardon the length of the post but please bear with me.

I was working on a cache in the garage and agonizing a bit over my wife's feelings about my new found hobby. My wife (Tammy BSN RN CRRN) is the Spinal Care Injury Home Care Coordinator for the Seattle VA. She has been working Spinal Cord Injury for 20 years. I have had little involvment in her work other than taking Rehab patients to the San Juans a few times on the boat. I have, however, been exposed to a wonderful staff and am acutely aware of their daily struggles to rehabilitate and motivate people that have suffered an injury beyond measure.

There is a unique aspect to this game that has given us an opportunity to make a huge difference in the quality of life for a segment of our society that is mostly not heard from. No matter what you do, no matter how you approach this game, you win.

It's not a matter of going out and placing a boat load of wheelchair accessable caches. It's a matter of education and exposure to the game for the people who perhaps can benefit from it most. (Though the number of accessable caches would have to increase.) We all know the feeling we get from the sound of an ammo can opening. Or the satisfaction we get from breaking a puzzle. Can you imagine what that would be like for someone who faces so many hurdles on a day to day basis?

I intend to talk with the Rec Therapy group at the Seattle VA as well as the PVA (Paralyzed Veterans of America) about Geocaching and the potential it has to get otherwise homebound Veterans/Handicapped persons involved in a game that is both stimulating as well as rewarding.

As I talked with Tammy tonight about this idea I had. I made the comment that it would be limited somewhat to paraplegics not quadriplegics. You should have seen the look in her eye when she said " Oh no Jim, there is no reason a Quad cannot figure out a puzzle or read a GPS and have their attendant act as their hands."

I'm not asking for anyone to go out and push people around in wheelchairs. What I'm looking for is a measure of support for this idea. The people immediatly involved (The Veterans) have given a great deal to this country. To have suffered as devastating an injury as they have, they deserve my best effort to improve and maintain their quality of life.

I can't teach Geocaching. I barely get it myself. My GPSMAP76 kicks my butt. But I do know there are those of you out there that can. I also know, given my limited exposure to the Geocaching family, that there is a tremendous amount of heart and goodwill.

I also have an invaluable tool in Tammy whereas she knows what will and will not work. She also is my "IN" to Rec Therapy and the PVA.

Anyhow after a somewhat rambling post please give me your thought's.

June 5, 2005

One of the amazing aspects of geocaching is the universal appeal for all different levels of physical (and mental) challenge --

Love to hike? Got it covered.

Love the numbers? No problem.

Are you a puzzle fan? Take your pick.

Are you pushing a stroller or a wheelchair? Lots to choose from, but certainly caches could be better described and identified in order to avoid disappointing someone when they find a "wheelchair accessible" or a "1 terrain" rating turns out to have steps, a muddy sloping trail, or no nearby parking.

In my work, I often deal with handicap accessibility issues -- designing parks and other public spaces to be more accessible to all users, just not those that are physically 100%. I think geocaching is an obvious extension of this, and your ideas are great.

Handicaching might be a place to start exploring this aspect of the game.

I'd be interested to know other's thoughts as well.

HC

24.7k · June 5, 2005

I think there is a lot of potential there. It's much easie to challenge yourself when you have a goal then when the challenge is the goal.

June 5, 2005

First rate notion C5, it's all just a matter of taking the time to think about how it could be done, and being a bit creative. As a kid who once (but for the grace of g) risked life in an iron lung (polio at age 6), I'm ever aware of how lost many (most?) of the physically challenged folks can be in a society that seems to run at warp speed.

Years ago, I leaned ASL (sign language) and took hearing-impaired teens on various outings (trips to the Portland Planetarium, fishing, cross-country skiing - the latter proved most challenging whence the group happily sailed in front of me and I couldn't of course, get their attention to STOP!) Point is, it was there I learned of how isolated some folks are from the simple everyday activities we sound-bodied folks take for granted. And there is simply NO REASON a deaf lad or lass can't fish, or ski, or - GEOCACHE for that matter!

So sure. No doubt about it. Though I'm surely no PT expert C5, but it just seems to me that there ain't a physical challenge in the world that would prevent someone from experiencing the fun of geocaching. As your dw says - there surely is no reason a quad can't know the thrill of "finding" a geocache. Just a matter of figuring out how to adapt this silly (many, many faceted) game to their special needs.

Personally I'd be happy to ponder the matter further - work with you/Tammy/the VA to see what we could do to actually make it happen. Indeed, while I'd love to also see geocaching capers for the lonely and forgotten seniors in our rest homes, our blessed Vets surely deserve a bit of attention. It's the very least we can do.

2.5k · June 5, 2005

Count me in on this one.

Also, contact Pyewacket, who is a neat lady and a handicapped cacher. She has been known to take her motorized chair into places you would not believe.

Edit: Ooops

Edited June 5, 2005 by WeightMan

June 6, 2005

WOOOHOOO already an up side without actually doing anything yet. Tammy wants to go caching (Tip me over with a feather.) and look at different hides so she can give informed input. In her job she also drives within a 75 mile radius of the Seattle VA and does home care visits with Spinal Cord injured patients. She often visits out of the way parks etc. for her lunches. In our travels she will also start looking at and rating caches to put on the Handicaching site.

I am also going to try to put together a Powerpoint presentation for the VA Rec Therapy group as well as the PVA. Hopefully we can fully involve the Rec Therapy group and not limit it to the SCI group. Rec Therapy people are usually looking to add to their arsenal.

Since I intend to demo as best I can using Geocaching.com I probably need to ask permission.

I just read Pyewacket's article on How to disable a cache.LINK

and will definitely be in touch.

2.7k · June 6, 2005

I have an idea for this website. I think this thread is the perfect place to debate the merits. If it is favorably received here, this group can submit it to Jeremy as an actual suggestion.

Every Cache hider has to set the Difficulty and Terrain of their placements. It is described in FAQ's as a 1 (easiest) to 5 (hardest) system with 1/2 point fine tuning allowed. I think there is a need for .5 (point five) as an option.

Too many able bodied Cache Hiders seem to use the 1 Terrain rating without sufficient regard to Disabled Cachers. A Wal-Mart Parking Lot Cache could be .5 Terrain that a Disabled Cacher could do solo. A Terrain rating of 1 could be a path suitable for small Children and a Disabled Cacher with either minimal assistance or a more robust wheelchair.

Not sure about ramifications of .5 Difficulty rating.

We really should not need this. Able bodied Cachers (and I am one) should be more aware of the wide range of abilities of the entire community. But I don't see that. I've noticed some 1 Terrain ratings that should be a 1.5 rating. That should not imply it is at all difficult to a walking person of any age. Is there a rating aversion against 1.5 Terrain? I think this could at least help raise awareness.

2.5k · June 6, 2005

While this might add to the discussion in this thread, if you want a general discussion of the 0.5 terrain you really need to start a thread in the geocaching.com forum. It is only there that you can be sure that those who could institute such a change will see it. It will also open up the discussion to a more general audience.

I do tend to agree with the proposal. I just think a wider audience is needed to explore the potential change.

1.5k · June 6, 2005

Hmmm... A one-star terrain cache is already defined as wheelchair accessible. I don't think adding a new half-star rating is going to make a difference to someone that is inattentive to creating an accurate cache page.

Edited June 6, 2005 by Phil & Cathy

June 6, 2005

If you need someone to help you out. Then I am sure I could donate time to help you . You know a few of us could setup some multi's for you on the eastside. Also maybe your wife could set up the guidelines for the caches. So count me in . OK

1.3k · June 7, 2005

Hmmm... A one-star terrain cache is already defined as wheelchair accessible. I don't think adding a new half-star rating is going to make a difference to someone that is inattentive to creating an accurate cache page.

This is quite right. We already have an option that we should be using to indicate that the terrain is wheelchair acceptable. What we as cache hiders need to do is be more aware of the terrain and if we are not 100% sure a person in a wheelchair can get to the cache location we should rate that cache a 1.5 star terrain.

June 7, 2005

...It is described in FAQ's as a 1 (easiest) to 5 (hardest) system with 1/2 point fine tuning allowed. I think there is a need for .5 (point five) as an option.

Not sure what you mean CR - as you say, there already is a 1/2 star fine tuning to the gc.com rating system - and 1/2 is indeed .5!

Also, bear in mind that we already have benefit of a site that specifically addresses rating each cache for physically challenged folks:

www.handicaching.com

'Course it's purely voluntary for the cache hider to rate their cache and place the link to handicaching on their cache page - as I've done with my Color Blind cache:

Color Blind cache with link to handicaching.com rating

If you click on that link on my Color Blind page, you'll find a much more detailed terrain rating system than the stars system on gc.com

June 7, 2005

It appears I may have the cart before the horse here. Sat down and talked to Tammy about what needs to happen. She looked at the handicaching site and said it was great. Then she asked how many accessable caches there were in our area listed on the site. Hmmmmm. I did a pq on 1/1 caches near my house and started running them through the handicache site. Nada-zip-zilch on the 40 or so I put in.

Ok, It's fine to want to do the education and get people involved. But without a database of appropriately rated caches for them to find it's not going to work.

Appropriately rated is another term we need to deal with. I recently did a very neat 1/1. Looking at it from a wheelchair point of view it's a different matter entirely. The nearest handicapped access is a mile away. The path is fine and it has no elevation change so thats doable. Even the last 25 feet to the cache across the grass is probably doable. However the cache requires you to get down on your hands and knees and stick your hand in a hole at the base of a tree. For a person in a wheelchair it might as well be rated a 5.

I think the 1st thing that needs to happen is an effort to locate caches that are doable or possibly with some slight modification in placement make them doable for persons with disabilities. I'm not going to go moving anyones caches around. If I find a cache I think may be modifiable for access I would, of course, approach the cache owner and give them my thoughts. Tammy and I are going to start taking this on as time permits. Any input will be VERY appreciated. I'll be very curious as to Tammy's reaction. She is a Certified Rehab Nurse who has been giving advise for house modification for new as well as old Spinal Cord injury patients the past 15-18 years. She has an excellent understanding of the capabilities and needs of the physically challenged. I'd really like her to put together a set of expanded guidlines for us willing lay people that we can understand and use, but that will take some time and exposure of her to the game. Read Pyewackets article below. Looks like we will be doing a bunch of 1/1's over the next few weeks.

There are a couple of articles that are an excellent start:

Pyewacket article

Handicaching Article

I see that Anonymous and Ladybug Kids are actively rating caches on the handicache site Thank-you

I still need to get in touch with Pyewacket.

The Handicaching forum looks to be very quiet.

In Pyewacket's article she makes mention of difficulty actually getting into a cache once found. Signing the log is an inherent part of caching and in fact one of it's great joy's. Some caches may be beyond the means of certain disabilities to actually open. Is there, or should there be, allowance made for a find to be posted without an actual log entry such as a discreet pix of the cache or cache location with GPSr in hand to the cache owner? Some caches may be seeable or touchable but not truely accessable. Nano caches come to mind.

Lots of issues to work through.

Work is getting the best of me right now so must run.

1.5k · June 7, 2005

Good point. Just because a wheelchair can roll right up to a cache doesn't mean it is completely handicapped accessible. It has to be reachable from a seated position.

This places additional challenge on the hider. Most of the time, a cache placed where it can be reached by a handicapped person is going to be more exposed to muggles and may not last long.

Looking over my own caches, I think 4 of them could be reached from a wheelchair.

2.7k · June 7, 2005

(Cardinal Red @ Jun 6 2005, 01:13 PM)
...It is described in FAQ's as a 1 (easiest) to 5 (hardest) system with 1/2 point fine tuning allowed. I think there is a need for .5 (point five) as an option.

globalgirl Posted on Jun 7 2005, 02:23 AM

Not sure what you mean CR - as you say, there already is a 1/2 star fine tuning to the gc.com rating system - and 1/2 is indeed .5!

I have not placed a Cache yet, and don't know for sure that you can't designate a Terrain as .5 (1/2) But I have never seen one, or read any discussion about the possibility. I did go to the PQ Generator Page to do some research before my previous post. To filter PQ's by Terrain (or Difficulty) you have 9 options ( 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5 ) You will notice .5 is not on that list. I invite someone to try and submit a .5 Terrain and see what happens.

WeightMan Posted on Jun 6 2005, 06:17 PM

I do tend to agree with the proposal. I just think a wider audience is needed to explore the potential change.

Yes of course you are correct about the wider audience. I thought I had conveyed the thought that I was inviting comment by this audience first. If this group isn't intrigued by the idea, the wider audience won't be either.

Phil & Cathy Posted on Jun 7 2005, 10:46 AM

Good point. Just because a wheelchair can roll right up to a cache doesn't mean it is completely handicapped accessible. It has to be reachable from a seated position.

I certainly didn't try to work through all the details in the .5 plan. But this had occurred to me. I originally had thought about assigning a .5 Difficulty to Wheelchair accessible caches. But what about an accessible but evil (hard to spot) Micro. That is what I was thinking when I posted:

Cardinal Red Posted on Jun 6 2005, 05:13 PM

Not sure about ramifications of .5 Difficulty rating.

If anyone would like to take this discussion to the wider audience for consideration and feedback, please feel free to do so. I was only interested in planting a seed in this group to see if it might survive and grow. If no one waters this seed it will die. But I won't have to wonder what might have been if it had never been planted.

1.8k · June 7, 2005

Hmm... I thought I knew, from forum discussions and talking to other cachers, that a 1-star terrain is meant to indicate wheelchair accessibility, but I just checked out the Report a New Cache page, and there's no mention of accessibility. The Report a New Cache page links to Clayjar's rating system, which mentions wheelchairs once in the input ("What is the terrain elevation like? ... Easy to do in a wheelchair, stroller, bike, etc."), and more interestingly, in the definition of one-star terrain in the output ("Terrain rating: 1 - Handicapped accessible. Terrain is likely to be paved, is relatively flat, and less than a 1/2 mile hike is required.")

Phil & Cathy wrote, "Just because a wheelchair can roll right up to a cache doesn't mean it is completely handicapped accessible. It has to be reachable from a seated position."

This is completely true, but compare the Clayjar rating page, "What is the trail like? ... How is the the most difficult part of the cache? If the cache is within a few feet of a trail, don't worry about the last few feet."

Does one-star terrain officially mean handicapped accessible; does it mean handicapped accessibile except for the last few feet; or does it just mean short, paved, and flat?

June 7, 2005

Something that might be helpful could be a small icon or seal that could be given to cache owners to place on the cache's page. If those were recomended for a cache by someone who was actually there in a wheelchair, that'd give people a better idea of it's accessability.

2.8k · June 7, 2005

Something that might be helpful could be a small icon or seal that could be given to cache owners to place on the cache's page. If those were recomended for a cache by someone who was actually there in a wheelchair, that'd give people a better idea of it's accessability.

There already is.

In the "Attributes" of the cache page there is a one for "Wheelchair Accessible".

June 8, 2005

Lots of great input and thoughts in here thank-you very much.

In the mean time Tammy and I are going to start reviewing 1/1 caches for accessability. Now I can do a PQ on 1/1's and spend alot of time eliminating those that don't work. I think, however, I will ask for input from those that know (Ya'll) caches that might just fit the bill. I think I will post a different topic for this so this one doesn't get cluttered and off track. In it perhaps I can ask cache owners to either rate their caches at Handicaching.com and post the results on their cache pages. Or if cache owners would like to have Tammy and I rate their cache they can either post in there or drop us a line. Either way, to get started in this process, Tammy and I are committed to building up the database on Handicaching.com. Once there is a reasonable base in the database, it will be easier to move other issues forward.

Perhaps I should also ask an ADIM to change this particular topic to something like;

"Handicaching PNW" or some such to better reflect what it is we are trying to address.

June 8, 2005

Something that might be helpful could be a small icon or seal

There already is.

In the "Attributes" of the cache page there is a one for "Wheelchair Accessible".

true, true, but as was mentioned earlier, someone who doesn't have to use accessability equipment, might not think of all the factors involved.

As an example, every public restroom has a wheelchair accessable stall, sink and towels, and meets ADA requirements... however a good chunk of those restrooms have a plain old hinged door, that is almost impossible for someone in a wheelchair to open without assistance.

So having an 'handicacher approved' stamp might seem like overkill, but considering the benefits of having well identified accessable caches, I don't think it is.

June 8, 2005

So having an 'handicacher approved' stamp might seem like overkill, but considering the benefits of having well identified accessable caches, I don't think it is.

I think Handicaching.com is underutilized. It provides a means for placing an distinct icon/link on a cache page directed to their handicache rating for the cache in question. A couple of the issue's with regard to the ratings I think are:

A. Few know about it. (Education and exposure)

B. Some may be uncomfortable rating caches, even their own. (Training-guideline's -volunteer rater (Tammy))

In the future, after a reasonable database is built. It might be possible for GC to add a link to Handicaching.com on the cache submission page that pops up when a 1/1 cache is submitted. Asking the submitter to rate the cache and add the Handicaching icon to the cache page. Going a step further why not a check block for rated caches for pq's or even a wheelchair icon for rated caches on the search page. The possibilities are practically endless.

June 8, 2005

Every Cache hider has to set the Difficulty and Terrain of their placements. It is described in FAQ's as a 1 (easiest) to 5 (hardest) system with 1/2 point fine tuning allowed. I think there is a need for .5 (point five) as an option.

Too many able bodied Cache Hiders seem to use the 1 Terrain rating without sufficient regard to Disabled Cachers. A Wal-Mart Parking Lot Cache could be .5 Terrain that a Disabled Cacher could do solo.

I think we are actually all together on this idea but perhaps a bit apart on semantics. I think we can all agree there needs to be some sort of easily recognizable indication of a handicapped accessable cache. The handicapped symbol available on the cache set-up page is a start. Obviously the 1/1 designation is not working partly due to lack of awareness of persons of disabilities needs on the part of hiders.

2.5k · June 8, 2005

Don't just restrict yourself to 1/1 caches. The difficulty is not the issue, just the terrain. There is no reason a handicapped cacher can't do a 5/1 if such a cache exists.

June 8, 2005

Don't just restrict yourself to 1/1 caches. The difficulty is not the issue, just the terrain. There is no reason a handicapped cacher can't do a 5/1 if such a cache exists.

That is true. For example:1/5 or 5/1 -- It's Your Choice

Excellent point thanks.

June 8, 2005

Don't just restrict yourself to 1/1 caches. The difficulty is not the issue, just the terrain. There is no reason a handicapped cacher can't do a 5/1 if such a cache exists.

Indeed WM, there was an earlier reference made to this generalization that concerned me as well. We're NOT talking CACHE DIFFICULTY here, but rather, only the terrain. The latter is what impinges most on physical accessibility, while the former is pretty much (at least as I understand it) a rating for mental difficulty. True, the present guidelines do mention both "A serious physical or mental challenge" for the 5 star extreme cache difficulty rating, but overall, it would seem that the emphasis for the cache difficulty criteria is more on the non-physical elements of finding a cache - i.e. how long it would take to find it, special knowledge required, etc.)

The truth is, it may well be the cache difficulty (i.e. cammo, puzzle, google research, etc.) that will best serve as the challenge and fun for disabled folks - in lieu of the necessary ever 1 terrain. It will also serve to include a lot more caches that are presently set. i.e. it would seem that all the present 1 terrain difficulty caches - including all those of 1-5 cache difficulty, would be the foremost caches to be reviewed for possible handicapped-accessible candidacy.

The truth is, the present cache rating system is not built with physically challenged cachers in mind. Thus, until TPTB give a nod to such matters, it would seem up to those like us, to...

1. Spread the word that handicaching.com exists and encourage folks to use it by adding that big sweet handicaching star link on our caches that half-way qualify for at least some physically challenged cachers.

[insert note: just now spied your fine new "Handicapped Caches" thread, C5 - indeed, might be a good idea to post a similar, more universal invite (i.e. w/o the "we'll check caches for you") - to ALL cachers via the Main Geocaching Topics forum, no?]

2. Set more caches that are truly handicapped accessible.

Neither no doubt the end-all solution, but at least a place to start. And regarding the latter...

I suggest perhaps we start a proactive "Handicache" challenge of our own here in the forums - much like the present "Cache-cadians Once-a-Month Club" (which I hasten to add I'm not at all in full agreement with, but nonetheless...) encouraging/challenging folks to set new caches, universally accessible to able and not-so-able-bodied cachers alike (and not necessarily just here in the PNW).

But before we do that - we need a set of guidelines that are truly in line with what the majority of physically challenged folks need. The handicaching.com rating system includes an excellent set of criteria (certainly better than anything else presently out there), but perhaps Tammy could add to it in terms of other factors that we lay folk aren't aware of - e.g. perhaps some guidelines regarding the opening of cache containers, etc.

Just some brain-storming thoughts, rattling 'round gg's noggin here this morning. And in the meantime, as a small proactive contribution to the matter, I shall momentarily be building a fast-loading html page of handicaching.com's rating system - to replace that achhhhhhhingly slooooooow pdf file - ugh!

Come to think of it... I'd also be happy to whittle a sweet "Proud to be ALL Cacher Accessible" graphic icon available to those who take on the "Handicache" challenge. What think ye? Perhaps a... rainbow-hued ribbon? (JUST KIDDING! - what the world doth NOT need, is yet another ubiquitous "ribbon".

June 9, 2005

What global girl said </aol> :lol:

I think to be really aware of what caches are handicapped accessable (and, in this case, focus on the realm of physical accessability, since gaguing mental accessability is beyon the range of most of us), we need to look beyond 'can a wheelchair get there', and explore what other physical challenges a person might have. The more people with disabilities we have involved in the process rating caches, the better accuracy we'll have

As I'm sitting here, the brainstorm of contacting the Special Olympics about making geocaching a 'exhibition event' comes to mind :lol:

2.5k · June 9, 2005

As a volunteer who works with Special Olympics, I don't think that caching will work all that well with most of the special olympians. Special Olympics gives these people a chance to compete. To most of them, just the act of competing is enough. They do not care, that much, about winning. Some do, some don't. They compete in sports that they see others compete in. Since caching is not a competition of any kind, at least not to me, I don't think that caching would be that appropriate to Special Olympics.

Just to be clear, I volunteer two days a year at the state games. I do not volunteer during the rest of the year and don't work that directly with the athletes. I do deal with a few athletes one on one, but not often. I am very familiar with their problems. In no small part because I used to be a teacher.

I don't really want to throw rocks at ideas, but I think this one needs to be thought through a bit more. Let us just leave this at physically handicapped for now. Expansion can come later on.

Unique Opportunity

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