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Thanks for reply, I figured it out actually I called garmin, hehe, I do have the pc cable and cd rom, along with 8mb card, I got the emap "deluxe" package cheap at bestbuys for $249!......I then came home checked out ebay, and the same deluxe package that once sold for $399 is actually under $200!......good luck......dino

i got a Garmin GPS III with cig lighter plug and xtra window antenna for my car on eBay for $200. ------------------ Bob Cleveland, Ohio ... look for the green bus!

I think the contents of the cache should be determined by the difficulty rating of the cache. i plan on placing a cache that requires a few days hike, and i would place a worthy prise in this cache for whoever found it. eg a GPS or $200 voucher etc. just a suggestion.

I'm brand new to this. Are the less expensive, $!00 - $200 units going to get within a few feet like I saw on TV? Recommended unit(s) for a beginner?

I can't speak for your GPS unit, but since it is a 12 channel receiver you should be able to get the same signal quality as my eTrex. The eTrex gives you a plus or minus indication of the possible error for your location. It can range from 10 to 200 feet depending on visibility to the satellites and other factors. If your system has this I would watch it to see what kind of error you're getting. Jeremy

I just started doing this, and have instantly become addicted. But I see this as an issue that could very easily be resolved, so I want to put in my two cents. I recently encountered this very problem, a cache at 4200 ft. completely covered in 3-4ft of snow (I think it was anyway). Though the snowshoe up was great, it was very dissapointing to be faced with either leaving empty handed or digging out 200 square meters of a snow packed hilltop. Not to mention the extreme environmental impact I would have caused and the dissapointment of my fellow snowshoers and hilltop adventurers as they crested the hill. So I think a very simple solution is to say in your cache description whether or not it is above snowline and if it would even be feasible to search for it under snowpack. Surely this could be done is a way that would not give up the cache's location.

the mountains, looking _specifically_ for an area that was A) off-the-beaten-path, and had good SATELLITE VISIBILITY.. (this incldes tree canopy) Figuring that since the game was created around the GPS system, and typical GPS receivers need a clear view of the sky (not withstanding active antennas and such) for _reliable_ position fixes, I kept out of thick forests... I tried to find open meadows, etc. where I could get 6 or 8 sats with good strenth, and a DOP under 1.5... My opinion was further reinforced while on one hunt in Oregon, when I decided to "just take the Etrex, it's all we'll need", into a thick douglas fir forest, and was only able to get a consistent position fix every 100 meters or so, if I sat still under a small opening in the canopy for awhile to let teh GPS work.. We eventually found the cache, but only by chance, and two people 200 feet apart scrambling around looking under every log and behind every stump... This doesn't necessarily worry me for myself, because I have found the Etrex to be sub-optimal in those type conditions, and I have another unit that works fine under that kind of canopy.. but ALOT of people are using the inexpensive Etrex and such... I have always considered the fact that even with SA off, under ideal conditions (say, DOP right around 1.0) we have reliable 10 meter accuracy.. Under LESS than ideal conditions, like under trees, in valleys, etc. when ya see your DOP shoot up to 2 or 3 or more, thats 20 or 30 meters or more... Therefore, my idea was to find locations where you could get good geometry, and good reception.. the theoretical 10 meter accuracy.. and THEN, place the cache so it would be visible once you were within 10 meters... This is obviously unrealistic, but it is a good theory to start from... Anyhow, just thought I'd share those tidbits, if anyone cares

the mountains, looking _specifically_ for an area that was A) off-the-beaten-path, and had good SATELLITE VISIBILITY.. (this incldes tree canopy) Figuring that since the game was created around the GPS system, and typical GPS receivers need a clear view of the sky (not withstanding active antennas and such) for _reliable_ position fixes, I kept out of thick forests... I tried to find open meadows, etc. where I could get 6 or 8 sats with good strenth, and a DOP under 1.5... My opinion was further reinforced while on one hunt in Oregon, when I decided to "just take the Etrex, it's all we'll need", into a thick douglas fir forest, and was only able to get a consistent position fix every 100 meters or so, if I sat still under a small opening in the canopy for awhile to let teh GPS work.. We eventually found the cache, but only by chance, and two people 200 feet apart scrambling around looking under every log and behind every stump... This doesn't necessarily worry me for myself, because I have found the Etrex to be sub-optimal in those type conditions, and I have another unit that works fine under that kind of canopy.. but ALOT of people are using the inexpensive Etrex and such... I have always considered the fact that even with SA off, under ideal conditions (say, DOP right around 1.0) we have reliable 10 meter accuracy.. Under LESS than ideal conditions, like under trees, in valleys, etc. when ya see your DOP shoot up to 2 or 3 or more, thats 20 or 30 meters or more... Therefore, my idea was to find locations where you could get good geometry, and good reception.. the theoretical 10 meter accuracy.. and THEN, place the cache so it would be visible once you were within 10 meters... This is obviously unrealistic, but it is a good theory to start from... Anyhow, just thought I'd share those tidbits, if anyone cares