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Wow those prices are way high. I use quality .50cal ammo cans that i get for 3.50 each. I buy very nice toys for kids like yo-yo's and crayons for 1.00 each at the "dollar store", you can also get a great logbook there for the same price. The camera is about 8-10 like you said, but all in all you can make an excellant cache for around 20.00 total. I still have noticed that tons of people are going out and bragging that they found 5 caches in a single day, some have over 30 caches under their belts, yet have hidden less than 3 if any at all. I put hours into thinking about where I will hide one, as well as the money put into making it and the cost of gas to take it out and place it. So for me to do all this for someone else to enjoy and give nothing back in return is kind of upsetting to me. So for those of you that have run out into the field and cache hunted all day to return and brag about your finds, please remember that if it wasn't for us making them your GPS would still be on that shelf collecting dust. If you're not going to place any then don't go look for any either. I understand that there are those few instances where maybe a geocacher is not able to get out and place one, like maybe health reasons or age, but for those of you that are racking over 5 finds and haven't placed one yet you need to stop where you are and start helping the cause of placing one in a nice location...my two cents! quote:Originally posted by daviskw:Hmmm I guess I could be considered a slacker by the standards here. I have 31 finds and have placed 5. But there is something you people are forgetting, not everyone here is rich. I'm not poor mouthing but on each cache I spent: $6.00 container $8.50 camera $25 of gifts $3.00 logbook $2.00 for 2 pens and 3 pencils and sharpener. 1.00 for baggies and such. Add a few bucks for box decorations and gas to get there and it is around $50 per cache. That is $200 bucks in a couple of months that I found the 31 caches. That's about all I can afford. I'm not complaining, I like having nice cashes for people to find and enjoy and I'm not worried about counting who does what. Butch ------------------ Quinn Stone Rochester, NY.14616 www.Navicache.com [This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-29-2001).]

I have one of the TOPO! sets for SFBay, Napa and BigSur (2 disks total). It was $50. There are about 8 sections of the state available at that rate, or the whole state for $200. I just saw on the discussion list the following web site which apparently has the entire state at $150. www.4x4books.com I really like the series...haven't seen Delorme, but have read some dissatifaction with it.

The default setting for map datum is WGS 84. People have reported problems when trying to line up there coordinates with a topo map, like the ones used on topozone. Their map datum is NAD 27. There can put you off by 200 feet or more. The Cache position listed is WGS 84 but when you look up the position on topozone it will be incorrect if you don't convert it to NAD 27. Hope this helps.

Hmmm I guess I could be considered a slacker by the standards here. I have 31 finds and have placed 5. But there is something you people are forgetting, not everyone here is rich. I'm not poor mouthing but on each cache I spent: $6.00 container $8.50 camera $25 of gifts $3.00 logbook $2.00 for 2 pens and 3 pencils and sharpener. 1.00 for baggies and such. Add a few bucks for box decorations and gas to get there and it is around $50 per cache. That is $200 bucks in a couple of months that I found the 31 caches. That's about all I can afford. I'm not complaining, I like having nice cashes for people to find and enjoy and I'm not worried about counting who does what. Butch

Can some of you experienced GPS unit users give me some idea as to the horizontal accuracy of the hand held units being used by geocachers. Is there a difference in accuracy between the $200 units and the $500 units or do the more expensive just have more features? I have used backpack models with the pole antennae and found them to be very accurate. I would guess, the handheld units are somewhat less accurate. Thanks

quote:Originally posted by bpuetz:I have an eTrex Vista on order, priamrily because of the memory and the altimeter. However, can someone explain the relevant differences between it and the Map76, other than the compass and altimeter? For example, the Map76 says it comes loaded with worldwide cities > 200,000 population. What exactly does that mean? Is that just major streets? I don't think it's any streets - just locations of the cities (although it does also have a basemap with major streets/highways for the Americas). The Map76 is more optimized for marine applications so it comes with a database that includes detailed coastlines and navigational aids (buoys, lighhouses, etc.) in addition to the cities. It also has an audible alarm for conditions like dragging your anchor or proximity to a wreck or reef in addition to the more common functions - turn coming up, batteries low, etc. Unlike the eTrex series, it has a jack for an external antenna so you can use it below decks or in cars that have metallic coatings in the windows - the ext. antenna can also be useful for hiking under dense foliage cover. Finally, it's physically larger which is not so good for hiking, but does give it a larger screen and enough volume so it floats if you drop it overboard (the Magellan 315/330 float too). [This message has been edited by peter (edited 03-23-2001).]

I have an eTrex Vista on order, priamrily because of the memory and the altimeter. However, can someone explain the relevant differences between it and the Map76, other than the compass and altimeter? For example, the Map76 says it comes loaded with worldwide cities > 200,000 population. What exactly does that mean? Is that just major streets?

51, male, active; cyclist (200-300k brevets, slow but plenty of endurance), hiker, x-c skier, snowshoer, canoeist, orienteering. Married, 2 kids. My 12 year old is looking forward to cache hunting with me this spring.

In general, you can expect about 15 meter (49 feet) RMS, which in English means that you can assume that the GPS is correct to within 15 meters 63% of the time (experts, correct me if I'm wrong here). Of course, the position of the satellites in the sky, signal reflection, and signal blockage can all affect this accuracy. With DGPS (differential GPS) you can get within 1-5 meters RMS. All of the consumer units priced between $200 and $500 will give you essentially the same accuracy (although as WAAS continues to get implemented, you will see those that are WAAS enabled start to distance themselves from the others in accuracy). As you surmised, the price differences generally involve the number of extra features. The backpack models you have used and commercial-grade receivers are significantly more expensive, and cost well over $1000.

I'm sure this is the most common question asked here, but gimme a break I just learned of this sport today (through an article in The Baltimore Sun). It sounds like alot of fun and I'd like to take it up, but obviouslly I need a GPS. So please, if you could, recommend a good GPS for me. Here's a couple of specs I've nailed down: -Lightweight, preferably pocket size -around $200 (U.S.) -waterproof (one that floats would be nice) -map display If you don't feel like writing a review, any good websites would also be appreciated. Thanks, in advance, for your help. -See you in the log book.

Mount10bike...I think we just created another sport...the tough part would be digging up the logbook though. But this would be cool for those people that like to scribe(copy) gravestones. We have a cemetary here that is about 2 miles squared and over 200 years old. People use it for the paved trails to bike, jog and walk through all day long. could be a good spot for one of those altoid caches, maybe put it on "jack the rippers" gravesite and log the location...after all, I dont think he'd complain! ------------------ Quinn Stone Rochester, NY.14616 www.Navicache.com [This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-20-2001).]

The most challenging one I've hit so far was the "Blackrock Basin" cache in the Shenandoah NP. We gave up after about 3 hours. It's somewhere on a talus slope about 200 feet high and 100 yards wide. The rocks range from the size of pebbles to the size of VW Beetles, and there are literally MILLIONS of small cracks, crevices, gaps, and holes where it COULD be. We never found the one where it WAS... Scott

The most challenging one I've hit so far was the "Blackrock Basin" cache in the Shenandoah NP. We gave up after about 3 hours. It's somewhere on a talus slope about 200 feet high and 100 yards wide. The rocks range from the size of pebbles to the size of VW Beetles, and there are literally MILLIONS of small cracks, crevices, gaps, and holes where it COULD be. We never found the one where it WAS... Scott

... moving map? I'm wondering, from a potential future recreational pilot's point of view... I kind of like the eTrex, at under $200 canadian, but I don't think it has moving map, does it? I was also thinking of the Garmin GPS12, which, from what I could tell, does have moving map. looking for opinions and the like... Glenoled

the mountains, looking _specifically_ for an area that was A) off-the-beaten-path, and had good SATELLITE VISIBILITY.. (this incldes tree canopy) Figuring that since the game was created around the GPS system, and typical GPS receivers need a clear view of the sky (not withstanding active antennas and such) for _reliable_ position fixes, I kept out of thick forests... I tried to find open meadows, etc. where I could get 6 or 8 sats with good strenth, and a DOP under 1.5... My opinion was further reinforced while on one hunt in Oregon, when I decided to "just take the Etrex, it's all we'll need", into a thick douglas fir forest, and was only able to get a consistent position fix every 100 meters or so, if I sat still under a small opening in the canopy for awhile to let teh GPS work.. We eventually found the cache, but only by chance, and two people 200 feet apart scrambling around looking under every log and behind every stump... This doesn't necessarily worry me for myself, because I have found the Etrex to be sub-optimal in those type conditions, and I have another unit that works fine under that kind of canopy.. but ALOT of people are using the inexpensive Etrex and such... I have always considered the fact that even with SA off, under ideal conditions (say, DOP right around 1.0) we have reliable 10 meter accuracy.. Under LESS than ideal conditions, like under trees, in valleys, etc. when ya see your DOP shoot up to 2 or 3 or more, thats 20 or 30 meters or more... Therefore, my idea was to find locations where you could get good geometry, and good reception.. the theoretical 10 meter accuracy.. and THEN, place the cache so it would be visible once you were within 10 meters... This is obviously unrealistic, but it is a good theory to start from... Anyhow, just thought I'd share those tidbits, if anyone cares

the mountains, looking _specifically_ for an area that was A) off-the-beaten-path, and had good SATELLITE VISIBILITY.. (this incldes tree canopy) Figuring that since the game was created around the GPS system, and typical GPS receivers need a clear view of the sky (not withstanding active antennas and such) for _reliable_ position fixes, I kept out of thick forests... I tried to find open meadows, etc. where I could get 6 or 8 sats with good strenth, and a DOP under 1.5... My opinion was further reinforced while on one hunt in Oregon, when I decided to "just take the Etrex, it's all we'll need", into a thick douglas fir forest, and was only able to get a consistent position fix every 100 meters or so, if I sat still under a small opening in the canopy for awhile to let teh GPS work.. We eventually found the cache, but only by chance, and two people 200 feet apart scrambling around looking under every log and behind every stump... This doesn't necessarily worry me for myself, because I have found the Etrex to be sub-optimal in those type conditions, and I have another unit that works fine under that kind of canopy.. but ALOT of people are using the inexpensive Etrex and such... I have always considered the fact that even with SA off, under ideal conditions (say, DOP right around 1.0) we have reliable 10 meter accuracy.. Under LESS than ideal conditions, like under trees, in valleys, etc. when ya see your DOP shoot up to 2 or 3 or more, thats 20 or 30 meters or more... Therefore, my idea was to find locations where you could get good geometry, and good reception.. the theoretical 10 meter accuracy.. and THEN, place the cache so it would be visible once you were within 10 meters... This is obviously unrealistic, but it is a good theory to start from... Anyhow, just thought I'd share those tidbits, if anyone cares

Just used a globalmap 100. Beautiful map. It aquired fast enuf for me. Can be had for 200$US anywhere

I work in a 2,200 acre park 14 miles from Boston. We had a huge snowstorm the last couple of days and I was lucky enough to do a little snowshoeing this morning, it is absolutely beautiful out today. I hiked up to a little rock dome that allows for a view of downtown. A filthy brown haze hung over the city on what was a perfectly clear blue sky day. So anyhow this is my point; if people weren't stomping around in these woods (yes crushing plants and compacting soil) 120 years ago this would all now be houses and the filthy haze would be here too. Hello Cape Cod! [This message has been edited by lynnwoods (edited 03-08-2001).]

I have a 5 year old (very old in GPS years) tripmate made by DeLorme tied to a Street Atlas 4.0 mapping software. I put it into a 75 mhz lap top and put it into my truck.( somebody told me I had turned a $2,000 lap top into a $200.00 GPS unit, but the lap top was just sitting around gathering dust anyway) After working out some bugs (believe it or not, Y2K struck)(you have to change the date year to 99, instead of 01 and when it actually sees the satellites, then the date auto updates) I got the thing working, and working well. I found my first cache this morning and the GPC receiver was within 10 feet of the cache location. In the monitor GPS configuration, it gives 4 significant digits after the decimal, which translates to about 4 feet by my observation. I don't know how many averages it uses (the technical specifications are not in the instructions), but I have noticed that it settles down after about 30 seconds. I am very pleased with this units performance today. I would be glad to help anyone who is having trouble getting this unit to work. Bob

Where aren't they? Well, phyiscally, they aren't here in California, but 'virtually', the internet makes them worldwide!!! Here's the link to the eTrex: http://www.basspro-shops.com/servl et/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=20928&hvarDept=200&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=1&hvarSubCode=2&hvarTarget=browse [This message has been edited by greg-o (edited 03-05-2001).]

FOXHALL GEOCACHING CHALLENGE The Foxhall Cup is a new Equestrian event that takes place during the first week of May. This is the second of the yearly event, with an established 23 more to go. The Chairman of the event was recently told about the Geocaching game and has fallen in love with the idea. He wishes to help promote the sport by doing something during The Foxhall Cup. Thus, we are developing the idea of a multi-day Geocaching game to take place alongside The Foxhall Cup. In the event that our ideas get approved, we have already established financial backing for the project. The event will take place on 1,200+ acres of farmland that includes fields, woods, rivers, and numerous buildings. Some areas are restricted due to the course, stables and media and will be clearly marked. We wish to uphold the fundamentals of Geocaching by retaining the "take something, leave something" aspect of the game. In addition to this, there will be a seal envelope that each person must take (only one from each cache they find). They must return this envelope (sealed!) to the Geocaching Booth to be given the coordinates of the next cache. We will track how many people we have searching for each cache, and try to divide the participants up among the various caches to avoid a "follow the leader" type situation, however, if you run into other Geocachers looking for the same cache, teamwork is encouraged. At the end of the day, each person's envelopes will be opened. The contents of the envelope are a randomly generated code, that when added up will give them a prize number. This prize MAY be something like a CD, t-shirt, a ticket to next years event, DVD player, etc... Or, a player can elect to carry his points over to the next day. The following days of the 4-day event offer the same format, but the cache locations change. Getting the most envelopes does not guarantee that you will win big. There is a level of randomness in the prizes that will help to insure everyone has a good time. At the end of the entire event, players that have accumulated their daily points instead of cashing out at the end of each day, have a chance to win a bigger prize. We have not decided exactly what this prize may be, but we are thinking in the terms of $2,000 - $3,000 US. Please do not hold me to that, but that was the initial figures tossed about. These caches will only be available during the event. We are going to set up a permanent cache on the farm as well. This is the basic idea we have developed so far. Any ideas to improve it? We are all ears and would love the input of experienced Geocachers. Owners of Geocaching.com, please contact me, as we would like to promote you at our event. Also, we are currently seeking sponsors that would be interested in providing equipment and services. We are interested in leasing out gps devices for people that have come for the Equestrian activities, but become interested in the Geocaching. Happy hunting! Daniel Goodwin dsg@strickland.com

I suspect you could get a mfr to provide a new GPS for something like this if you talked to them really nicely. After all, they're usually just covering their costs on the price of the GPS itself, so they can make a killing on the cables and software. My Lowrance, for example was $200, and the accessories come out to; software $130, power cable $25, data cable $35. I don't know what their cost is on the SW, but I made both cables for about $6 each, without the benefit of buying parts in bulk. ------------------ DrunkenBard http://www.drunkenbard.com

I suspect you could get a mfr to provide a new GPS for something like this if you talked to them really nicely. After all, they're usually just covering their costs on the price of the GPS itself, so they can make a killing on the cables and software. My Lowrance, for example was $200, and the accessories come out to; software $130, power cable $25, data cable $35. I don't know what their cost is on the SW, but I made both cables for about $6 each, without the benefit of buying parts in bulk. ------------------ DrunkenBard http://www.drunkenbard.com

I'm brand new to this. Are the less expensive, $!00 - $200 units going to get within a few feet like I saw on TV? Recommended unit(s) for a beginner?

I had that lesson driven home by a battery failure tonight. One of the cheapo batteries I'd decided to try went pop and dumped gunk all over the innards of the Lowrance. Aside from nearly losing the battery cover when I popped it off and flung the batteries out as hard as I could, and getting some of the stuff on my hands, it went well, though. Cleanup went quickly, the cover was found, and I had some extra Energizers in the car. The Lowrance doesn't seem to have suffered any ill effects after cleaning, and I now know that it's not worth risking my $200 GPS over a $1.50 pack of no-name batteries. The compass on the other hand, was totally unconcerned throughout the incident. ------------------ DrunkenBard http://www.drunkenbard.com