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I had this problem recently with my Summit. After putzing around with it, I found I could duplicate the problem. Here was the situation for me. I had created and activated a route comprising 50 waypoints (the maximum)... When on the Map Page, I could make the unit shut off without fail by downsizing the Map Scale to 200 feet (the minimum). I'm not sure what the exact combination of factors is that results in the shutdown, but as I said, I could force it to do so every time. I haven't had the problem at all otherwise. I have emailed Garmin tech support, but have yet to hear from them.

Here is the updated stats as of July 18th: I included last weeks rankings as well. 1 cache for everyRank Last State Population Caches this many people---- ---- ------------- ---------- ----- ------1 1 Utah 2,233,169 266 8,3952 2 Oregon 3,421,399 202 16,9383 3 Idaho 1,293,953 49 26,4074 4 Alaska 626,932 22 28,4975 5 Wyoming 493,782 15 32,9196 6 Washington 5,894,121 156 37,7837 7 Montana 902,195 23 39,2268 9 Arizona 5,130,632 110 46,6429 8 Nevada 1,998,257 41 48,73810 10 Missouri 5,595,211 111 50,40711 11 New Mexico 1,819,046 30 60,63512 13 Kansas 2,688,418 43 62,52113 12 California 33,871,648 535 63,31114 14 Massachusetts 6,349,097 90 70,54615 16 Delaware 783,600 11 71,23616 15 Colorado 4,301,261 60 71,68817 29 New Hampshire 1,235,786 16 77,23718 18 New York 18,976,457 240 79,06919 17 Maine 1,274,923 15 84,99520 21 Michigan 9,938,444 115 86,42121 19 Hawaii 1,211,537 14 86,53822 20 North Carolina 8,049,313 87 92,52123 24 Maryland 5,296,486 57 92,92124 23 Pennsylvania 12,281,054 131 93,74925 22 Vermont 608,827 6 101,47126 25 Arkansas 2,673,400 26 102,82327 30 Wisconsin 5,363,675 52 103,14828 27 Georgia 8,186,453 78 104,95529 26 South Dakota 754,844 7 107,83530 28 South Carolina 4,012,012 35 114,62931 33 Texas 20,851,820 175 119,15332 31 Illinois 12,419,293 100 124,19333 32 North Dakota 642,200 5 128,44034 34 Tennessee 5,689,283 40 142,23235 37 Oklahoma 3,450,654 24 143,77736 38 Iowa 2,926,324 20 146,31637 35 Ohio 11,353,140 76 149,38338 39 Rhode Island 1,048,319 7 149,76039 36 Nebraska 1,711,263 11 155,56940 41 Mississippi 2,844,658 18 158,03741 42 Kentucky 4,041,769 23 175,72942 40 Minnesota 4,919,479 27 182,20343 43 Connecticut 3,405,565 18 189,19844 45 Indiana 6,080,485 32 190,01545 44 Virginia 7,078,515 37 191,31146 46 West Virginia 1,808,344 8 226,04347 48 New Jersey 8,414,350 36 233,73248 47 Florida 15,982,378 62 257,78049 49 Washington DC 572,059 2 286,03050 50 Louisiana 4,468,976 12 372,41551 51 Alabama 4,447,100 10 444,710

s 2,688,418 43 62,521 13 12 California 33,871,648 535 63,311 14 14 Massachusetts 6,349,097 90 70,546 15 16 Delaware 783,600 11 71,236 16 15 Colorado 4,301,261 60 71,688 17 29 New Hampshire 1,235,786 16 77,237 18 18 New York 18,976,457 240 79,069 19 17 Maine 1,274,923 15 84,995 20 21 Michigan 9,938,444 115 86,421 21 19 Hawaii 1,211,537 14 86,538 22 20 North Carolina 8,049,313 87 92,521 23 24 Maryland 5,296,486 57 92,921 24 23 Pennsylvania 12,281,054 131 93,749 25 22 Vermont 608,827 6 101,471 26 25 Arkansas 2,673,400 26 102,823 27 30 Wisconsin 5,363,675 52 103,148 28 27 Georgia 8,186,453 78 104,955 29 26 South Dakota 754,844 7 107,835 30 28 South Carolina 4,012,012 35 114,629 31 33 Texas 20,851,820 175 119,153 32 31 Illinois 12,419,293 100 124,193 33 32 North Dakota 642,200 5 128,440 34 34 Tennessee 5,689,283 40 142,232 35 37 Oklahoma 3,450,654 24 143,777 36 38 Iowa 2,926,324 20 146,316 37 35 Ohio 11,353,140 76 149,383 38 39 Rhode Island 1,048,319 7 149,760 39 36 Nebraska 1,711,263 11 155,569 40 41 Mississippi 2,844,658 18 158,037 41 42 Kentucky 4,041,769 23 175,729 42 40 Minnesota 4,919,479 27 182,203 43 43 Connecticut 3,405,565 18 189,198 44 45 Indiana 6,080,485 32 190,015 45 44 Virginia 7,078,515 37 191,311 46 46 West Virginia 1,808,344 8 226,043 47 48 New Jersey 8,414,350 36 233,732 48 47 Florida 15,982,378 62 257,780 49 49 Washington DC 572,059 2 286,030 50 50 Louisiana 4,468,976 12 372,415 51 51 Alabama 4,447,100 10 444,710

Lowrance Globalnav 200

Took us 9 hours to climb to Zeus's Roost on 7/8. That's round trip, from the trailhead. About a 6.5 mile hike, and about a 4,200 foot ascent. There is another cache about halfway - Lower Zeus, so it's a two-fer.

I'm with Emrldjetta on this one as the Magellan units have much better antennas. So pretty much it is a choice of whether you want better reception (Magellans and expensive Garmins) or some extra little features (Garmin). Although you can still find old Garmin GPS-II+ units out there for sub-200 USD that have a quadrifilar antenna and all the traditional gps features. ------------------ -Iron Chef _ _ _ _ _ _____ _ _ _ _ _ agefive.com/geocache/ ~ Fe-26 Lets Drive Fast and Eat Cheese!

Another thing for you to consider is the Area you live in. Do you live in an area with heavy tree coverage? this is Important in your gps choice as many etrex perform poorly in heavy tree cover due to sat loss. I have tested several units on my own as well as with friends and have found that units with a quadrifilar Antenna perform much better at holding sat locks than the units with the base unit system. Go one step better and look for a GPS that will allow you to add an external Antenna then all your upgrade troubles and questions will be in your past. Garmin's IIIPlus as well as the map76 or the gps76 which is the same as the map76 except you dont have the mapping function are great units with powerful antennas built into them, and if this isnt enough for you just use the external antenna jack and plug a external antenna into it for more reliability. the gps76 goes for around 200. the map76 around 315. and the IIIPlus around 280. check around for prices to get the lowest, but you can also find them at nice prieces on www.advancedgps.com Tell them you saw it here and point credit in Jeremy's direction! ------------------ Quinn Stone Rochester, NY.14616 www.Navicache.com

I just recently took a trip across Alberta, and found my first 8 caches. I did not use paper maps because I have a laptop computer and a 12VDC-110VAC converter in my car. I use the program Ozi Explorer, and have digital maps for all of Alberta. The program interfaces with the GPS unit I have(reads NMEA output from the GPS) and will show my location on the screen as I travel. The maps are calibrated and read correctly 99% of the time. For instance, if I change lanes on the fourway between Edmonton and Calgary it will actual show the move on the map. The greatest thing about this software though is the unlimited waypoints, routes, tracks etc. you can access. It becomes your data base. It's only limit is the size of your hard drive. If you think laptops are expensive try Ebay, you would not believe how many are listed there. To use software like this does not require a full blown game machine, a one year old computer (PII, 8gig HD, CD-ROM) can go for less than $200 american. [This message has been edited by DungeonKeeper (edited 07 July 2001).]

Kev - Thank you for your post. I found that one, and took the can of Pepsi. While I appreciated the Pepsi, even warm, I shudder to think of the damage IT would have caused. On the other, much more pressing subject. If there is in fact a vandal with a GPS among us, he or she has easy pickings all over SLC. I have maintained and ever will do so, that there is no SURE way to prevent this. The game depends on the integrity of its players. In time, it is probable that we all will have a cache plundered, and the only thiung we can really hope for is that we will find out about it quickly and either archive or replace the cache. I have had only one experience with this. In May, I went to the First Cache County cache, and it was in total disarray. I found the container, and one of the contents. No log, and nothing else. I had come all that way, and was determined to get a find, so I filled the cache with some of my trading items, put in a new log, and signed that I found it. A few people have found it since then, but it has been awhile, so I wonder how it is doing. Anyway, my point in this story is not to beat my chest or anything, but to illustrate that for this game to remain viable and enjoyable, we have to be "good citizens." Again, not to brag, but more than once I have filled caches with stuff I had to trade, just because the cache contents were either pitiful or non-existent. Usually these were older caches which had been depleted by unequal trading, which is what this thread is all about. I am not wealthy by any definition; most of you probably earn more than I do in a year. It makes a little bit of a dent in my wallet, too, to try and place nice items in a cache. Because of this, I appreciate it even more when I see the generosity shown by the contents of some of your caches. I was at a cache a little while ago that was obviously placed there by a young girl. The penmanship in the log book was a giveaway - not sloppy, but you know how kids write - just looks like they are trying really hard. The contents were about as good as any I had seen in most caches, and it showed a lot of effort and thought went into it. It reminds me a little of the widow's mite parable in the Bible, and it actually touched me. I happened to have a pretty good (I thought) cache in my car ready to go, so I took most of the best stuff, what would fit, as the cache was pretty small. and put it in there. I did take an item, though. If any of you have tears in your eyes by now, you know now why I love this game the way I do. It really does have tremendous potential to bring people together. Families, friends, and complete strangers. Hunt4Elk just told me how a number of people have asked to join us on our Zeus's Roost hike, and I could not be more excited. We are so completely removed from other people in our lives. We travel in steel cages at a mile a minute, and never have to see a soul we don't want to see. With all our technology for communication, we never talk to anyone unless we have to. Most people talk to less than 20 people per day for more than a minute. Back to the point: This sport DEPENDS on all of us giving more than we get. If everyone took more from caches than they received, which would also mean no one ever placed a cache, because that is, by its very nature, a donation, how long would this game last? This also reduces the concern over plundered caches greatly, because even if the entire cache is taken, the next person who tries to find it will at least inform the owner, who can take action. At best, the person who finds the plundered/missing cache will have one ready to go, and will just replace it. (This is a lot to ask, but it happens all the time). There are enough of us that one clown looting caches is not going to loot us out of this game. The only way that will happen is if no one places any more. In Utah, we have over 200 caches. It took me over two months of ambitious caching to find half that many. Enough said? It is entirely reasonale to think there will be over 300 here by year end, assuming things REALLY slow down this fall/winter. It is truly a bummer when a cache is raided, but that's all it is. All you can do is dust for fingerprints, call the FBI for a match, "ask Jeeves" for the dirty @#$%'s address and place a flaming "cache" of dog ______ on the perpetrator's porch. Or you could forget about it and get on with your life. Not my place to tell you how to deal with anger. I'm an accountant, not a therapist. (that's my wife, lucky for me) Well, this has been long, but it's been fun...for me at least. With those thoughts, let's all have BIG group hug and sing "Kum-ba-yah." Amen. ------------------ David Wallentine dwallent34@yahoo.com

Kev - Thank you for your post. I found that one, and took the can of Pepsi. While I appreciated the Pepsi, even warm, I shudder to think of the damage IT would have caused. On the other, much more pressing subject. If there is in fact a vandal with a GPS among us, he or she has easy pickings all over SLC. I have maintained and ever will do so, that there is no SURE way to prevent this. The game depends on the integrity of its players. In time, it is probable that we all will have a cache plundered, and the only thiung we can really hope for is that we will find out about it quickly and either archive or replace the cache. I have had only one experience with this. In May, I went to the First Cache County cache, and it was in total disarray. I found the container, and one of the contents. No log, and nothing else. I had come all that way, and was determined to get a find, so I filled the cache with some of my trading items, put in a new log, and signed that I found it. A few people have found it since then, but it has been awhile, so I wonder how it is doing. Anyway, my point in this story is not to beat my chest or anything, but to illustrate that for this game to remain viable and enjoyable, we have to be "good citizens." Again, not to brag, but more than once I have filled caches with stuff I had to trade, just because the cache contents were either pitiful or non-existent. Usually these were older caches which had been depleted by unequal trading, which is what this thread is all about. I am not wealthy by any definition; most of you probably earn more than I do in a year. It makes a little bit of a dent in my wallet, too, to try and place nice items in a cache. Because of this, I appreciate it even more when I see the generosity shown by the contents of some of your caches. I was at a cache a little while ago that was obviously placed there by a young girl. The penmanship in the log book was a giveaway - not sloppy, but you know how kids write - just looks like they are trying really hard. The contents were about as good as any I had seen in most caches, and it showed a lot of effort and thought went into it. It reminds me a little of the widow's mite parable in the Bible, and it actually touched me. I happened to have a pretty good (I thought) cache in my car ready to go, so I took most of the best stuff, what would fit, as the cache was pretty small. and put it in there. I did take an item, though. If any of you have tears in your eyes by now, you know now why I love this game the way I do. It really does have tremendous potential to bring people together. Families, friends, and complete strangers. Hunt4Elk just told me how a number of people have asked to join us on our Zeus's Roost hike, and I could not be more excited. We are so completely removed from other people in our lives. We travel in steel cages at a mile a minute, and never have to see a soul we don't want to see. With all our technology for communication, we never talk to anyone unless we have to. Most people talk to less than 20 people per day for more than a minute. Back to the point: This sport DEPENDS on all of us giving more than we get. If everyone took more from caches than they received, which would also mean no one ever placed a cache, because that is, by its very nature, a donation, how long would this game last? This also reduces the concern over plundered caches greatly, because even if the entire cache is taken, the next person who tries to find it will at least inform the owner, who can take action. At best, the person who finds the plundered/missing cache will have one ready to go, and will just replace it. (This is a lot to ask, but it happens all the time). There are enough of us that one clown looting caches is not going to loot us out of this game. The only way that will happen is if no one places any more. In Utah, we have over 200 caches. It took me over two months of ambitious caching to find half that many. Enough said? It is entirely reasonale to think there will be over 300 here by year end, assuming things REALLY slow down this fall/winter. It is truly a bummer when a cache is raided, but that's all it is. All you can do is dust for fingerprints, call the FBI for a match, "ask Jeeves" for the dirty @#$%'s address and place a flaming "cache" of dog ______ on the perpetrator's porch. Or you could forget about it and get on with your life. Not my place to tell you how to deal with anger. I'm an accountant, not a therapist. (that's my wife, lucky for me) Well, this has been long, but it's been fun...for me at least. With those thoughts, let's all have BIG group hug and sing "Kum-ba-yah." Amen. ------------------ David Wallentine dwallent34@yahoo.com

I am in the process of buying my first GPS unit and had some questions. I am looking at the Venture($150 shipped). 1- How is and what is the base map that is programed into this unit? 2- What do they mean that I can download points of interest intoo the unit? And where is this info at?(which CD?) 3- How far off shore will this unit work? I go on party boats to fish all the time and was wondering where we stop at. We don't really go out to far. we are usually very close to land. 4- Also how is the unit for driving? What feture is in this unit for driving? %- I will be using this unit for Geocaching, MTBing and some light hiking. Also to see where the fishing spots are when we go out on party boats. So is this unit right unit for me for under $200 bucks. This will be my first unit. I really thought that for $30-$50 more than the base model if this would be a good deal for me. A little more fetures that I can really take advantage of. THANX FOR YOUR HELPS FOLKS. Any info or advice will be gladly taken. THANX AGAIN

gged on the web site. It IS possible that some non-cacher has taken the money and of course not logged at the cache site. I often take the cash I see, but I also log it as having been taken (both at cache site and web site). One cache I went to (Geo-Ca$h) was nothing BUT money. There was a $5 bill and a $1 bill, a bag of pennies (about 200 I think) and a lot of foreign currency. I was the first one at the site and took the $5 bill and left a silver jewelry box. Not totally in keeping with the theme, but close enough. It was real silver and the perfect size for holding a silver dollar. Anyway, I think we all know that people are going to do what they are going to do and no matter what we say, not many of them will change. The value for us saying these things is getting it off our chest and hoping for the best. I also wonder if the explosion of caches in Utah has not contributed to this phenomenon? I seem to remember reading that people are placing them in empty fields outside their office buildings so they can watch the hunt. If this is true, it may be a contributing factor to the "trash" quality of some of the caches. Also, when one finds 100 or so caches, the "trash" factor has to be seen as a logical extension of what you will run into...quality and junk. All of the above is my humble opinion and not handed down on stone tablets. Ron 24H/26/F/1C/4S/3X [This message has been edited by Ron Streeter (edited 04 July 2001).]

I just saw the little segment on techtv's Internet Tonight about Geocaching today, and the whole concept sounds really neat! I've decided I want to get into it and need help on deciding which GPS unit I should buy. I've also got a few questions. -Is WAAS support useful? -Onboard compass or seperate one? -Map support or no map support? -Some people are saying that the internal annenas like on the eTrex have trouble locking on signals under tree cover, true? false? or not an issue? -*winces* Garmin or Magellan? (or other?) Right now I'm looking to spend no more than $200 on a unit (the cheaper the better, but I do want cool features). The unit would be used primarily for geocaching, but occasionally for driving. Any advice, suggestions, or answers you might have for me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for your time and I hope I can begin geocaching soon! -GammaX

I'm a newbie and I bought a Magellan 330X Mapping, mostly because of reviews I read and the Sam's offer and rebate that resulted in a $200 cost. I immediately downloaded the WAAS and that went smoothly. I'm hooked! QUESTIONS: If I use WAAS and the seeker does not, what have we gained? Vice versa, if the stasher did not have WAAS and I seek with it, what have we gained? Isn't accuracy always going to depend on the "weakest link"? I'm concerned because I occasionally read reports on here saying things like "our readings differ by 100 feet." Since I'm new, I do not know whether that is expected because of tree canopy and buildings and heavy clouds, my technique lacks, their technique lacks, someone is not using WAAS, or my unit is substandard. Hopefully everything is fine and that's just the reality of the situation. If I am patient, pivot for better satellite strength, and give the averaging a minute or so, I get readings that will "move" 25 feet sometimes in the identical spot. Anything I should do differently? Opinions please.......Thanks, Darrell

se the software is easier to use, the computer interface is easier to set up. They seem to be more ahead of the game when it comes to inovation and product design. Right now I'm looking to spend no more than $200 on a unit (the cheaper the better, but I do want cool features). The unit would be used primarily for geocaching, but occasionally for driving. If you wanted one for driving, the III+ or 76MAP would be my two choices. Both work really well for caching too. Light, good battery life, and easy to use. If you don't want maps, the new eTrex Venture is a good, easy to use unit with the latest operating software Garmin is using for about $170. OR a version of the MAP76 called the GPS 76 sells for around $220, but doesn't support maps. Which ever you unit you decide on, I'm sure that you will love the game....enjoy!

When I lost my 12XL (grumble) I chose the Legend and have been extremely happy with it. I got it from 4x4Books.com for just over $200 (comes with PC interface cable). Page says $249, but if you go through order process (add to cart) it rings up at $209.

For about two months now, as long as I've been caching, I have been doing the longhand copy/paste of all the cache data in my state to the memo pad on my PDA. It works pretty well. I tried the Avantgo and it was pretty messy. All I need is the Utah caches, and I guess I'm not savvy enough to make it do just that. Anyway, it has been very nice, having all the info in my PDA all the time, and comes in very handy when I get to where a cache "should" be and have to start using the hints. Beats lugging a notebook with 200 pages of cache notes around, too, Maybe there is someone who has done the Avantgo thing that could help, or something could be done with the website to make the data downloadable to PDAs. I will keep trying with the Avantgo.

For about two months now, as long as I've been caching, I have been doing the longhand copy/paste of all the cache data in my state to the memo pad on my PDA. It works pretty well. I tried the Avantgo and it was pretty messy. All I need is the Utah caches, and I guess I'm not savvy enough to make it do just that. Anyway, it has been very nice, having all the info in my PDA all the time, and comes in very handy when I get to where a cache "should" be and have to start using the hints. Beats lugging a notebook with 200 pages of cache notes around, too, Maybe there is someone who has done the Avantgo thing that could help, or something could be done with the website to make the data downloadable to PDAs. I will keep trying with the Avantgo.

pull down that bar on the upper right, make it say "show all topics" there are 200 or so posts in here, just kinda older..some interesting ones though... c/n

pull down that bar on the upper right, make it say "show all topics" there are 200 or so posts in here, just kinda older..some interesting ones though... c/n

BX, you might want to look at the Etrex Legend. It is a little more than your $200 ceiling ($214 shipped from advancedgps.com I think) but it is the same as the Venture, except that it has the built in base map of the Americas and 8 megs for more maps. I found one on yahoo auctions and got it for $150. In my opinion, the maps are well worth it, especially for driving. Good luck,

in maps. I use PanTerra to download MapBlast driving directions to my Venture, and that combo is all I need to get places. 5- I will be using this unit for Geocaching, MTBing and some light hiking. Also to see where the fishing spots are when we go out on party boats. So is this unit right unit for me for under $200 bucks. I use mine constantly for Geocaching, MTBing, and hiking. (and kayaking and driving and testing the GPS software that I write...) Works great! Buy the $15 handlebar mount. I've owned 5 GPS units so far, and this is the only one I carry with me. It's definitely worth the extra money from the base eTrex if you're going to be using it often. In this price class, you may also want to look at the Magellan 315 (or 320 for marine use). Good luck with your decision! -- Dan Foster TopoGrafix: GPS Software, Waypoints, and Maps http://www.topografix.com

There is a very real world example of why you'd want to tradmark something... Yellow Pages and the "let your finger's do the walking" image is not trademarked... In my area, there are rogue phone book companies that send out advertisements claiming that they are "THE" Yellow Pages and in order to list your name it costs some ridiculous fee of 200+ dollars... of course it's a scam since they aren't the aren't part of the Southwestern Bell telephone directory (who publishes the majority of phone books around here)... and yet they make a killing on scamming everyone who doesn't understand that they're not legit...

OING TO BELIEVE THIS ? As I flew East to participate in Mission #3 I called various airports in search of a chopper and a pilot. I was given the number of Sergeant Bo who had done three tours in Nam as a chopper jocky and now ownes his own Huey. Called Bo and he said he could go. I asked if he had a GPS in his Huey, he said no. Said his armored rotor blades hash up them fancy sattlites and GPS don't work. But, he did have a good old military INS (Inertial Navigation System) that would get us within 200 yards if we could just convert to the right military datum. I said OK, we'll go with INS, gave him my credit card number and a plan on where to meet. 7 AM the next day we meet at Country Club Airpark and plan for our dash to the cache. The Huey is in its original 1971 paint job with only white letters BOSARGENT INC on the boom. Bo tells me it takes 15 minutes to align the gyro platform on the INS and that could slow our departure. Decided to leave the platform up and running until the coordinates come in. Agonizing hours went by as I monitored the net for APE activity. Finally after noon the coordinates were had and entered in the INS. I said GO BO and he spun up the turbine engine but the whine soon died... What the hell? Oh, God, the battery was dead ! Keeping the INS aligned all morning had run the battery down. I ask if we could get a 24 volt jump start but Bo said no, gotta take the battery out to the shop for charging... So much for the dash to the cache. Went to the club to ask about a limo or another chopper. Gal named Julie overheard my requests and said she had some exotic wheels at her place. Gotta get some lunch before we go, starving... Talked up Julie over lunch and found her to be a very warm and moist person. Went back to her place and never left. Decided to go for her cache and abandon the mission... Now I think she may have been an agent of the Ninja... Dave... [This message has been edited by Creator of Geocaching (edited 09 June 2001).]

I did indeed get started from the Trib article. GeoCaching is going to be a permanent part of my hiking program. It has really struck a positive chord. However, putting names and faces to some of the monikers I see on the board will be fun. I am extremely active on one other Internet bulletin board. It changed my life significantly. I don't expect this one to be as profound, but I expect it to be positive. I've met 150-200 people that participage on my other BB. I've made many life long friends there. My other BB only has one other regular participant in Utah, so I have to travel more to see people on it. At least on this one, travel distances are close. Just like my other BB, it is only an interest in the subject that matters. Long time experience is not required. I'm looking forward to a great time and meeting a great cross-section of people who are interested in the sport. I'll be there with my wife and dog.