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The most challenging one I've hit so far was the "Blackrock Basin" cache in the Shenandoah NP. We gave up after about 3 hours. It's somewhere on a talus slope about 200 feet high and 100 yards wide. The rocks range from the size of pebbles to the size of VW Beetles, and there are literally MILLIONS of small cracks, crevices, gaps, and holes where it COULD be. We never found the one where it WAS... Scott

... moving map? I'm wondering, from a potential future recreational pilot's point of view... I kind of like the eTrex, at under $200 canadian, but I don't think it has moving map, does it? I was also thinking of the Garmin GPS12, which, from what I could tell, does have moving map. looking for opinions and the like... Glenoled

the mountains, looking _specifically_ for an area that was A) off-the-beaten-path, and had good SATELLITE VISIBILITY.. (this incldes tree canopy) Figuring that since the game was created around the GPS system, and typical GPS receivers need a clear view of the sky (not withstanding active antennas and such) for _reliable_ position fixes, I kept out of thick forests... I tried to find open meadows, etc. where I could get 6 or 8 sats with good strenth, and a DOP under 1.5... My opinion was further reinforced while on one hunt in Oregon, when I decided to "just take the Etrex, it's all we'll need", into a thick douglas fir forest, and was only able to get a consistent position fix every 100 meters or so, if I sat still under a small opening in the canopy for awhile to let teh GPS work.. We eventually found the cache, but only by chance, and two people 200 feet apart scrambling around looking under every log and behind every stump... This doesn't necessarily worry me for myself, because I have found the Etrex to be sub-optimal in those type conditions, and I have another unit that works fine under that kind of canopy.. but ALOT of people are using the inexpensive Etrex and such... I have always considered the fact that even with SA off, under ideal conditions (say, DOP right around 1.0) we have reliable 10 meter accuracy.. Under LESS than ideal conditions, like under trees, in valleys, etc. when ya see your DOP shoot up to 2 or 3 or more, thats 20 or 30 meters or more... Therefore, my idea was to find locations where you could get good geometry, and good reception.. the theoretical 10 meter accuracy.. and THEN, place the cache so it would be visible once you were within 10 meters... This is obviously unrealistic, but it is a good theory to start from... Anyhow, just thought I'd share those tidbits, if anyone cares

the mountains, looking _specifically_ for an area that was A) off-the-beaten-path, and had good SATELLITE VISIBILITY.. (this incldes tree canopy) Figuring that since the game was created around the GPS system, and typical GPS receivers need a clear view of the sky (not withstanding active antennas and such) for _reliable_ position fixes, I kept out of thick forests... I tried to find open meadows, etc. where I could get 6 or 8 sats with good strenth, and a DOP under 1.5... My opinion was further reinforced while on one hunt in Oregon, when I decided to "just take the Etrex, it's all we'll need", into a thick douglas fir forest, and was only able to get a consistent position fix every 100 meters or so, if I sat still under a small opening in the canopy for awhile to let teh GPS work.. We eventually found the cache, but only by chance, and two people 200 feet apart scrambling around looking under every log and behind every stump... This doesn't necessarily worry me for myself, because I have found the Etrex to be sub-optimal in those type conditions, and I have another unit that works fine under that kind of canopy.. but ALOT of people are using the inexpensive Etrex and such... I have always considered the fact that even with SA off, under ideal conditions (say, DOP right around 1.0) we have reliable 10 meter accuracy.. Under LESS than ideal conditions, like under trees, in valleys, etc. when ya see your DOP shoot up to 2 or 3 or more, thats 20 or 30 meters or more... Therefore, my idea was to find locations where you could get good geometry, and good reception.. the theoretical 10 meter accuracy.. and THEN, place the cache so it would be visible once you were within 10 meters... This is obviously unrealistic, but it is a good theory to start from... Anyhow, just thought I'd share those tidbits, if anyone cares

Just used a globalmap 100. Beautiful map. It aquired fast enuf for me. Can be had for 200$US anywhere

I work in a 2,200 acre park 14 miles from Boston. We had a huge snowstorm the last couple of days and I was lucky enough to do a little snowshoeing this morning, it is absolutely beautiful out today. I hiked up to a little rock dome that allows for a view of downtown. A filthy brown haze hung over the city on what was a perfectly clear blue sky day. So anyhow this is my point; if people weren't stomping around in these woods (yes crushing plants and compacting soil) 120 years ago this would all now be houses and the filthy haze would be here too. Hello Cape Cod! [This message has been edited by lynnwoods (edited 03-08-2001).]

I have a 5 year old (very old in GPS years) tripmate made by DeLorme tied to a Street Atlas 4.0 mapping software. I put it into a 75 mhz lap top and put it into my truck.( somebody told me I had turned a $2,000 lap top into a $200.00 GPS unit, but the lap top was just sitting around gathering dust anyway) After working out some bugs (believe it or not, Y2K struck)(you have to change the date year to 99, instead of 01 and when it actually sees the satellites, then the date auto updates) I got the thing working, and working well. I found my first cache this morning and the GPC receiver was within 10 feet of the cache location. In the monitor GPS configuration, it gives 4 significant digits after the decimal, which translates to about 4 feet by my observation. I don't know how many averages it uses (the technical specifications are not in the instructions), but I have noticed that it settles down after about 30 seconds. I am very pleased with this units performance today. I would be glad to help anyone who is having trouble getting this unit to work. Bob

Where aren't they? Well, phyiscally, they aren't here in California, but 'virtually', the internet makes them worldwide!!! Here's the link to the eTrex: http://www.basspro-shops.com/servl et/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=20928&hvarDept=200&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=1&hvarSubCode=2&hvarTarget=browse [This message has been edited by greg-o (edited 03-05-2001).]

FOXHALL GEOCACHING CHALLENGE The Foxhall Cup is a new Equestrian event that takes place during the first week of May. This is the second of the yearly event, with an established 23 more to go. The Chairman of the event was recently told about the Geocaching game and has fallen in love with the idea. He wishes to help promote the sport by doing something during The Foxhall Cup. Thus, we are developing the idea of a multi-day Geocaching game to take place alongside The Foxhall Cup. In the event that our ideas get approved, we have already established financial backing for the project. The event will take place on 1,200+ acres of farmland that includes fields, woods, rivers, and numerous buildings. Some areas are restricted due to the course, stables and media and will be clearly marked. We wish to uphold the fundamentals of Geocaching by retaining the "take something, leave something" aspect of the game. In addition to this, there will be a seal envelope that each person must take (only one from each cache they find). They must return this envelope (sealed!) to the Geocaching Booth to be given the coordinates of the next cache. We will track how many people we have searching for each cache, and try to divide the participants up among the various caches to avoid a "follow the leader" type situation, however, if you run into other Geocachers looking for the same cache, teamwork is encouraged. At the end of the day, each person's envelopes will be opened. The contents of the envelope are a randomly generated code, that when added up will give them a prize number. This prize MAY be something like a CD, t-shirt, a ticket to next years event, DVD player, etc... Or, a player can elect to carry his points over to the next day. The following days of the 4-day event offer the same format, but the cache locations change. Getting the most envelopes does not guarantee that you will win big. There is a level of randomness in the prizes that will help to insure everyone has a good time. At the end of the entire event, players that have accumulated their daily points instead of cashing out at the end of each day, have a chance to win a bigger prize. We have not decided exactly what this prize may be, but we are thinking in the terms of $2,000 - $3,000 US. Please do not hold me to that, but that was the initial figures tossed about. These caches will only be available during the event. We are going to set up a permanent cache on the farm as well. This is the basic idea we have developed so far. Any ideas to improve it? We are all ears and would love the input of experienced Geocachers. Owners of Geocaching.com, please contact me, as we would like to promote you at our event. Also, we are currently seeking sponsors that would be interested in providing equipment and services. We are interested in leasing out gps devices for people that have come for the Equestrian activities, but become interested in the Geocaching. Happy hunting! Daniel Goodwin dsg@strickland.com

I suspect you could get a mfr to provide a new GPS for something like this if you talked to them really nicely. After all, they're usually just covering their costs on the price of the GPS itself, so they can make a killing on the cables and software. My Lowrance, for example was $200, and the accessories come out to; software $130, power cable $25, data cable $35. I don't know what their cost is on the SW, but I made both cables for about $6 each, without the benefit of buying parts in bulk. ------------------ DrunkenBard http://www.drunkenbard.com

I suspect you could get a mfr to provide a new GPS for something like this if you talked to them really nicely. After all, they're usually just covering their costs on the price of the GPS itself, so they can make a killing on the cables and software. My Lowrance, for example was $200, and the accessories come out to; software $130, power cable $25, data cable $35. I don't know what their cost is on the SW, but I made both cables for about $6 each, without the benefit of buying parts in bulk. ------------------ DrunkenBard http://www.drunkenbard.com

I'm brand new to this. Are the less expensive, $!00 - $200 units going to get within a few feet like I saw on TV? Recommended unit(s) for a beginner?

I had that lesson driven home by a battery failure tonight. One of the cheapo batteries I'd decided to try went pop and dumped gunk all over the innards of the Lowrance. Aside from nearly losing the battery cover when I popped it off and flung the batteries out as hard as I could, and getting some of the stuff on my hands, it went well, though. Cleanup went quickly, the cover was found, and I had some extra Energizers in the car. The Lowrance doesn't seem to have suffered any ill effects after cleaning, and I now know that it's not worth risking my $200 GPS over a $1.50 pack of no-name batteries. The compass on the other hand, was totally unconcerned throughout the incident. ------------------ DrunkenBard http://www.drunkenbard.com

Tell them its in a fake stump. If we play this game right our GPS will get us within 10metres (30 feet), from there it should not be difficult. Conversly, I don't think you should be saying "take x road to the carpark at y, then walk 200 metres to the spot". That is what is what we should be using our GPS, maps and brains to work out.

For geocaching, anyway, I set to True North. I'm not really using my magnetic compass until I get close (within 200 feet or so) of the cache anyway, and with distances that small, the difference between magnetic and true north are almost negligable.

Thanks for reply, I figured it out actually I called garmin, hehe, I do have the pc cable and cd rom, along with 8mb card, I got the emap "deluxe" package cheap at bestbuys for $249!......I then came home checked out ebay, and the same deluxe package that once sold for $399 is actually under $200!......good luck......dino

Thanks for reply, I figured it out actually I called garmin, hehe, I do have the pc cable and cd rom, along with 8mb card, I got the emap "deluxe" package cheap at bestbuys for $249!......I then came home checked out ebay, and the same deluxe package that once sold for $399 is actually under $200!......good luck......dino

i got a Garmin GPS III with cig lighter plug and xtra window antenna for my car on eBay for $200. ------------------ Bob Cleveland, Ohio ... look for the green bus!

I think the contents of the cache should be determined by the difficulty rating of the cache. i plan on placing a cache that requires a few days hike, and i would place a worthy prise in this cache for whoever found it. eg a GPS or $200 voucher etc. just a suggestion.

I can't speak for your GPS unit, but since it is a 12 channel receiver you should be able to get the same signal quality as my eTrex. The eTrex gives you a plus or minus indication of the possible error for your location. It can range from 10 to 200 feet depending on visibility to the satellites and other factors. If your system has this I would watch it to see what kind of error you're getting. Jeremy

I just started doing this, and have instantly become addicted. But I see this as an issue that could very easily be resolved, so I want to put in my two cents. I recently encountered this very problem, a cache at 4200 ft. completely covered in 3-4ft of snow (I think it was anyway). Though the snowshoe up was great, it was very dissapointing to be faced with either leaving empty handed or digging out 200 square meters of a snow packed hilltop. Not to mention the extreme environmental impact I would have caused and the dissapointment of my fellow snowshoers and hilltop adventurers as they crested the hill. So I think a very simple solution is to say in your cache description whether or not it is above snowline and if it would even be feasible to search for it under snowpack. Surely this could be done is a way that would not give up the cache's location.