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I think we're in agreement. My point was that, in this particular example, cost difference isn't a factor in why Gamins are so prevalent whereas in the Hyundai/BMW example it is (I drive a Hyundai. Believe me, if BMW's cost the same as Hyundais I'd have a BMW). Despite my adoration for Garmins, and the culture of mapmaking surrounding their handhelds, I always suggest to anyone that they visit a store and spend at least 15 minutes with each unit, enough time to get a real feel for the menu systems and interface. After all, despite all the extraneous features, the user interface and menu feel are among the most important in my opinion.

However..... The OP was asking about a GPS for geocaching. The ratio of owned units on GEOCACHING.COM is extremely relevant, since the only people posting here are geocachers. And, I have a friend who owns four businesses, and has owned several BMW's and at least one Lexus, and now drives a fully loaded Kia, and says he's happier with it than any luxury car he's ever owned. Personally, I can't afford one, so I wouldn't know. Later!

I see more Hyundais on the road than BMWs, but that doesn't mean that Hyundais are the superior cars. That's because, in your analogy, BMW's cost much more than the Hyundais. In the GPS world the prices in each category run similar and an overwhelming Garmin market share was no accident. No, my point is that popularity is not a valid way to determine quality or value.

I see more Hyundais on the road than BMWs, but that doesn't mean that Hyundais are the superior cars. That's because, in your analogy, BMW's cost much more than the Hyundais. In the GPS world the prices in each category run similar and an overwhelming Garmin market share was no accident. Garmin units have free (and legal) maps available at various online 3rd party sites and you can even make your own (after the learning curve). I wish the other manufacturers would realize that the ability to make and load maps made from freely available vector data (shapefiles) sells alot of GPS units. I like Delorme units but Magellan totally lost me with their Triton fail and I never looked back. It's possible that Maggie got their act together with the new eXplorist line but their mapping options dissapoint me (see above rant about making your own maps).

Thanks. Until now I had thought that Porsche and VW were part of the same overall group since VW was created to market the car Porsche designed and built to Hitler's specification. FWIW I worked for BMW when they bought the rights to the Rolls Royce name with respect to motor vehicles and remember having a chuckle when we found out that VW had bought the IP. So although VW could make proper Rolls Royce cars they couldn't call them that and BMW could call anything they made a Rolls Royce just as long as it wasn't a proper roller! That said, something seemed wrong about Porsche owning exactly 50% of VW. So (after getting the ding) I checked with Volkswagen themselves. Porsche have just over 50% of the voting rights, but that's not the same as ownership. Porsche Automobil Holding SE own 32.2% with Porsche Holding GmbH, Saltzburg owning 1.5%. Whichever way you look at it, that is way short of the 50% Wikipedia etc. suggests and just shows that you can't always trust Wikipedia! Anyway, next question: What was the name of the first dalmatian recorded as having walked on Chinese soil?

What do you think a business is? It's really just one or more individuals working to provide goods/services to others. The people who run companies have an obligation to provide financial information to the company's owners/investors. In the case of a public company, that includes potential owners/investors, which includes pretty much anyone, so they have to make such information public. That isn't the case for private companies like Groundspeak or the Chinese take-out place down the street. They're under no more obligation to make such information public than you and I are. Feel free to ask people (whether individuals or private companies) for private financial information. You have the right to ask. Just don't be surprised if they don't comply. And regarding the "support the site" comments: I don't support the site the way I support non-profit charities. That is a gift, and I receive no tangible value in exchange for my gift. I support the site the way I support local stores, by giving them my business. It isn't a gift. I'm paying for goods/services. But when I like what the company does (whether Groundspeak or the Chinese take-out place down the street), I'm happy that they profit when I do business with them, because that means that they will continue to run their company, and they will continue to provide the goods/services that I enjoy. Thank you for this post. I probably deleted four attempts at a response yesterday. Your post made the point much better than any of my attempts. That was indeed a nice post! Who doesn't love a Chinese food analogy? Better than the tired ice cream analogy. So much arrogance in these threads over the years, people even being called freeloaders for not ponying up $30/yr., especially when I'd say it's half at most of their revenue. Besides all that, the answer has been right under my nose the whole time. I myself work for a privately owned company of about 50 employees, about the same exact size as Groundspeak, Inc. Our sales are usually 5-6 Million dollars a year. The owner drives a BMW, owns a Yacht, and has a pretty nice house (I've been in it). Is he a millionaire? I'd say no. So I dunno, are there any Beemers in the Groundspeak parking lot?

Only $30.00 to be an elitist for a full year! I can't believe how great this is; I can't afford a BMW or a second home in the Caymen Islands, I have to clean my own home and mow my own lawn, and I have even been known to purchase used items from thrift stores and garage sales so I never in all my dreams believed that I could be an elitist. WOW, I have finally made it, maybe next I can become a republican...maybe not.

My rusted, cracked windshield, muddy, s**tbox of a 1997 VW Golf (with a geocaching logo in the r/rear window, BTW). My numero uno cache machine. I've located caches while with my wife in her new BMW but I'm tired of hearing "do you have to open that filthy thing in here?" so I enjoy using the Golf.

It does seem like a fair offer - but perhaps you can still contact their Customer Service Manager up in Joburg for a last try. I agree with your principle that it is a software problem - but the lack of warranty etc. is a bummer - I guess a bit like expensive BMW and Mercs that have Electronics that stop the car working - and only way out is to replace the black box at a high cost. Hope you get joy.

You give up the BMW for a Toyota Tacoma so you have plenty of ground clearance to park on the side of the road. It's true! Dang! And I really liked that car.

The odd comparison never made between the UK and US is the $ per mile. A few years ago, the average American was paying $2 / gallon to fill up his 14mpg truck. 1 mile = 14c / mile. Meanwhile, here in the UK we were paying 90p/litre to fill up our 30mpg(uk) hatchbacks. 1 mile = 13p / mile (20.8c) Now Americans are paying $3.80 which is 27c /mile and we are paying £1.30 which is 20p or 32 cents. There is a point at which the Americans will be paying more per mile than Brits, and we're approaching that point quickly. The biggest change though is the percentage rise, gas prices in the US have doubled nearly, but in the UK they've gone up by 30%, because the tax rate is mostly static. We may be paying a lot, but at least the money is going towards public healthcare etc. The money that Americans pay is going to the oil producers in the middle east. The ideal solution is for Americans to drive European style cars. It would be better for the environment, for the US economy (buying less oil) and for world stability. What most Americans don't realise is that in the UK, nearly all large cars are diesel powered. Mine is a BMW 5 Series diesel. They're nothing like how they were 20 years ago, and get similar MPG to hybrids. Take a look at a BMW 320d Ed - 0-60mph in 7.8s, yet it does 55 US mpg. Now work out your cents per mile

Looks like you have a contender to join you - perhaps this guy should be recruited to caching? BMW Offroading What are those roads? I think that Bats already can disclaim the off road part of this guy when he saw where i took the Corsa.... and that was only at the start of the path.... I think maybe I need to get a camera fitted to the car.... Tinkerbell-GP took a video but it was from too far away as she decided that been in the car was not for her.... I will try and see if I can get the video and post it.... I have one of me going through flood waters too, but that was on roads.... no fun there....

Looks like you have a contender to join you - perhaps this guy should be recruited to caching? BMW Offroading

I saw a BMW with one of the magnetic TB tags on it this morning in Tacoma. We were on Portland Ave around 8:00 (yes I was late for work, again). They turned left onto I-705. I snapped a picture of the TB tag with my phone but I don't know if I'll be able to make out the number. We'll have to see when I get home and can zoom in farther.

Ah, but you were missed Solly - as Europe's top cacher you'd have fitted right in! - An excellent and well attended event, with the bonus of trackable GeoGnomes (I got you one Alan, to pass on or send out) and cheeses of various bigness to chat to too. A great atmosphere and no one tried to hit me; always a bonus. Big thanks to Go catch, Alibags, DalekMeat for my cap badge and all those who attended this (BMW) Mini Mega That said, I hope you had a cracking day of your own and the Father of the Bride speech went well. "I don't think of it so much as losing a daughter as gaining a spare room..."

I notice that a lot... if everyone actually traded up then we'd have more "I took this gold bar, is an BMW and appropriate trade?" threads in the forums. Not everyone who caches finds enjoyment in the same things you find enjoyment in.

Anton you are reading my mind. This will be my last post and I will do another new one on this topic next year. I included snippets for those interested in doing this trip for background information. Ok, also to get your attention. I hope I use the correct spelling for the towns. If not then I apologize. You can travel all the way to Kaszungula with a Bitumen road from Gaborone. If you reach Nata you can also turn to the western side and you can carry on to Maun. It is amazing to see the progress compared to 1966 when only 10 km was paved. (This could be wrong; this was received via my peers in Botswana) I will do my best to make the events accessible to all cachers and to make it reachable with a normal vehicle. It is one of the reasons why we need to hold one of the events in Gaborone itself for the Botswana leg. Anyone can attend with any vehicle and you can go home the same afternoon or cross the border and stay over somewhere in RSA. Or you can stay in Gaborone at Oasis and return the next day. To make it a 4x4 event only is a little bit unfair as we immediately exclude 80% of the caching community. Only after publishing we will be able to say if we are going into the wilder places and if we are staying on the tar road and near the town. Only when the cachers agree will we go to the bush. Maybe better to say - sand. Most of the worthy places are however off the beaten track. If there are any objections then we stay on the 2 ply lanes. This final answer will also depend on the number of 4x4 vehicles that will attend, if any. I normally do remote areas with a minimum of 4 vehicles but prefer not more than 8 at a time. Also interested to note that Botswana has a population of about 1.7 million people and 80% of them live on the eastern side. The country consists of about 580 000 square km. This will give you some idée of the spread of people. Even when you travel with a normal vehicle you need to travel in a group; vehicles can break down. There are only two types of vehicles. Those that are in the workshop at present and those that will visit in the near future. Night driving is a no go at all times; but then again so is the rest of Africa. In this country you will see more than enough donkeys. They do not move they just stay on the road. The higher you go and the more to the western side the less the people and sometimes the more the elephants. There you do not hit any thing on the road and you do not get caught in a speed trap. Use the hooter at all times and go around people and animals as far as possible. The police are well organized and you have 48 hours to pay your fine at the nearest police station, sometimes they demand payment on the spot. Do not even try to bribe them; jail will be the next stop for you and the family. Do not be late with the payment and do not ignore the summons; they are quite effective and you will be arrested at the next stop. Speed limits are more or less to the SADC requirements. General speed is 120 km/hr, semi urban is 80 km/hrs and 60 km/hrs for urban/build up areas. In the bush you need to be careful. Sand tracks are sometimes deep, you have to keep momentum and revs to make sure you do not get stuck. Here petrol machines do much better than a diesel. Diesels tend to run too hot in sand. Also you need to stay in the track at the same time. In the sand the small narrow tyre as fitted on the old Land Rovers do much better than the wide ones as fitted on BMW. If you meet another group you must be alert - the inexperienced drivers could climb out of their tracks and then there is no control. Most of them are foreigners that want to rough it and they do make use of hired 4x4’s with no or little experience. Maybe it is not kind and maybe it is not right but I treat all of them as inexperienced and then there are no surprises and I expect anything. Sometimes I will also pull off the road especially when I see they do speed. Elephants should be treated with respect if we go the bush, we will meet them somewhere. If some of the bulls are in their muster season you could be worried. They do mock attacks – drive away from them at speed and they will keep on coming and they will enjoy their game and you will be doing the sweating. Best is to stop, switch the engine off and stay where you are; it is hard to do while the mind is saying something else and the feet wants to run when he is charging but you need to do the right thing. He will soon loose interest if you do not get scared and he will carry on with other things. You need to know the difference between a mock attack and a real one. Do not switch off when he does the real one – not nice to be a hamburger patty. Yes, I will not stay in the bush with any type of tent. In Lesotho we had to face a 50 km/hr wind but here you face a wild kitty that has food on his mind and honestly we are the bottom of this food chain so I do take care. Accommodation is sometimes a pain. You can not arrive at a location and expect to find something. Some of the reserves will not give you access at the gate if you can not produce a letter stating that you are booked, even with empty accommodation. The tour operators in this area do block bookings - sometimes up to 20 people. Three days before the expected arrival date they will cancel the booking if they have no sufficient numbers. When you leave RSA you need to have the accommodation resolved. That could be the biggest challenge. But for the rest - it is a relatively low risk trip. For the next couple of months we will need to plan and we will need to do some reconnaissance of this area. BruceTP will be booked but then there is no more space in my vehicle. It will happen sometime in June 2010 and it will be in the Gauteng school holiday and it will be about 10 days long. Hopefully I will be close to my 2000 mark. During winter the sand give you a little bit less problems and you do not need to go through 1 meter of water. But it is also the time when it is busy. If you drive sensible you will not get stuck or better - you have a good chance not to get stuck. But you have to learn to stop the normal way and to reverse back onto your own track and then forward and then back again. This will compact the sand and you will have the chance to get momentum during pull away. Blow down of tyres are essential and a pump must be carried with a tyre gauge. The secret of sand driving is in the tyres and to learn not to spin the tyre off the rim. The way I will precede is a simple way of starting the plan but it ends as a complex chain of events. I look at the tar roads, then I look at anything of value on that road such as scenery and caches, if there is a border crossing then I do some checks and balances as each and every border post sometimes have their own rules. For those interested in the planning I do make use of a decision tree to get to the best option for the average cacher. I then look for possible gathering places such as public places where there are some sort of open spaces and if possible where no arranged booking must be done such as restaurants or where an entry fee must be paid. I ask for permission to hold such an event from the property owner and that is sometimes quite a hurdle. I then recheck the route and test for accessibility with a normal vehicle and I check for any negatives and or risk elements such as high crime areas and I adjust the plan if anything is found. We then do a recognisance trip and we have to make sure that the plan is working. Only here we start to add days required to get there. The plan is simple – I am going to move around and I will not stay too long at one location. I am planning to leave extra time to do the final event in Gauteng – probably delayed with an additional week. The aim is also to meet with the owner of the location where the event will be held. Only when all is resolved we will proceed publishing the event. I will in all probability do a similar one every two years. But that depends on the reaction of the cachers and on their recommendation and the way they experienced it. Also it is important to note that they we do contact some of the cachers that visited the area and I will ask for info, hints and anything that we should be aware of before publishing the event. For sure, if the plan materializes and only one cacher arrived at the event then no further events to the North will be done in the future unless the next cacher sign the listing with his name in blood. No, do not use the screen – I will not see it. If there are two people then I will rethink the next one. I hope Groundspeak will allow me additional time for the event. It is for the benefit of the cacher. You need to make sure that precautions are taken against malaria and the accommodation must be resolved so additional time is needed as this is not the ordinary event. I think they will understand and if any obstacles then the reviewer will have to assist to explain the circumstance to them and why it is needed. On the other hand such an event in these remote areas should not be a problem – after all how many events will be on top of the new listings in Botswana? At least the cachers are warned of a potential chain of events that will be done next year and they are in a position to start planning and to get the resources needed. The plan was broadly discussed and you should have an idea how and what is involved. Do not worry, with this one I will lead from the front from Gaborone back to RSA. If I am not there then the team lost me somewhere in Botswana. During January we should be in a position to give the red light or the green light. You then need to decide to do the jump or not to jump. This year I am not going on leave due to this plan. But to see Botswana you have two choices. You pay the tour operator an arm and a leg or you get a group together at much less cost. It is time to convince the wife….. Gerhard

How do you arrive at this conclusion? The average person has no idea what the TB emblem is. This is like saying "If you have a BMW or Audi or Lexus emblem on your car you may have expensive stuff in it." I would think that the thief would have to know what a travel bug was in the first place. Mine's just the scarab beetle image with a number underneath it. Not much to go on.

How do you arrive at this conclusion? The average person has no idea what the TB emblem is. This is like saying "If you have a BMW or Audi or Lexus emblem on your car you may have expensive stuff in it."

Location: Netherlands Iron Six retrieved Todie's Wild Ride - Spread the Message(5) (Todie's Wild Ride Geocoin) from Veni, Vidi, Vada Bonus at 6/27/2010 Ik heb zelf ook motor gereden maar mijn BMW is al jaren geleden verkocht. Maar het heeft mij wel veel verkeersinzicht opgeleverd. Ik hoop dat dat mij helpt om iedere dag weer veilig thuis te komen. Je blijft echter altijd (een beetje) afhankelijk van andere verkeersdeelnemers. De nieuwste campagne "Veilig thuis komen heb jezelf in de hand" spreekt mij daarom wel aan. Waarbij het natuurlijk niet alleen om je eigen hachie gaat maar ook je verantwoordelijkheid jegens medeweggebruikers wordt aangesproken. Iron Six "I was a biker myself, but sold my BMW some years ago. Biking gave my a lot of insight in traffic and it's participants. I hope this helps me to come home save every day. Therefore the newest (Dutch) campagne :"Coming home save is in your own hands" appeals to me. Ofcourse that does concern not only your own life, but being responsable for other traffic paticipants too. Iron Six" "Coming home save is in your own hands"

The lawyers would take your case and make sure it lasts long enough to buy a couple of BMW's. Yep you nailed that one!

They will take the toy out of the box and charge the same amount for a Happy Meal They will then sell the toy separate and the kids will whine, the parents will fold. It is a win-win for McD's The lawyers would take your case and make sure it lasts long enough to buy a couple of BMW's.

Sounds like a bad infomercial Just attempting to explain the perspective of someone who likes being able to post a log from the field. Sorry if you've got a problem with people who happen to have a different kind of phone than you, and happen to like it. Fair enough. Just came off sounding funny, like the a bad infomercial. "before I started selling Amway I lived in a cardboard box, I had to dumpster dive for food. Now That I sell Amway, I travel the world, have a BMW M5, and live in a mansion." PS. My insult about the iPhone was directed at a certain person who thought I must be jealous of his iPhone, and a lot of other similar fanboy types, not every iPhone user. I have a few friends with iPhones.

We found a TB and logged it that we have retrieved it. We have now placed it in a new cache, but I'm having issues. The travel bug is still showing up in the cache's inventory that we picked it up from... So I can't place it in the new cache's log. If someone could help me that would be great. Here's the cache GC1DWNZ. And the TB is MY BMW R100RS. It shows us retrieving it on the TB log. HELP!

Let's see what this bring out of the woodwork. Recently I have been shopping for an article and was confronted with a combination of letters and numerals. They are specifically i3 and i5, amongst others. [No, I am not buying a BMW or a Hyundai.] What do these refer to and what is the 1 main difference between them?