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It's tantamount to defamation to suggest we might have even considered owning one of those BMW things Cheers, Stu

i do hope we're talking a mini and not that bmw 1 series? i'd love to go back to one but i need the bigger car due to dad's wheelchair. i've seen the flame thrower before, but how'd you set it up to do that when you're not in it?. the answer? lock the buggers up. the longer they are away the less crime they commit. who says that prison doesn't work?

Strikes me that a red Austin Mini with a Union Jack roof would be one of the most recognisable icons of the country - however if it were to be a sponsored effort then it would have to be the BMW mini in which case you could pretty much guarantee that it would end up another US centric event.

classic mini (not that b#$%d offspring from bmw) still very british. ie breaks down all the time and rusts at the first sign of rain. but still one of the best cars ever. god i miss my old one. tvr are still british aren't they? or the rarely heard of bristol: http://www.bristolcars.co.uk/index2.htm didn't quite follow the toyota idea! toyota is japanese last time i looked. why a car? any thoughts re a different british icon that we could have? a different firm. harry ramsden's fish supper bugs!

Boy am I glad to hear that. BMW and Mercedes make fine car but both their weak spots are 4WD. I am hoping to win the Range Rover. DW

Show us your best. We now have ten photos entered into the "Best Photo Contest". There will be a valuable prize for the winner so tell your friends about it .. No it's not a BMW nor a Mercedes but that thought crossed my mind. Hurry up .. last day for submitting your photos is next Tuesday May 31, 2005 .. you still have few more days. http://arabiacachers.bravehost.com/temp.html

its kewl but for 2000.00 I'll get the gps thats in the bmw's and talks to you.

Hi Professor, You are correct in your thinking and the process. The United States National Geodetic Survey already has all this geodetic work well in hand. Thanks for you insights. Like you say, all the people who decide these things have to choose what their standards will be, or use. What some of the people want to see here is a direct comparison of WGS84 and NAD83 in a couple of specific places just to see what the difference is between reference systems. The stickler is that the Datums though very closely related were developed by different government agencies here in the US to satisfy different primary objectives. It has been noted by Geodesists who were writing thesis papers that there are differences and similarities but no one has really bothered to publish a paper on all the nuances. For the most part, it probably isn't considered proactive when based against all the other things they want to know so it has not been done. In addition, with both NGA (DOD) and NGS (NOAA/DOC) always upgrading their editions of the Datum toward higher accuracy, the freshness of the information if published would have a relatively short shelf life and quickly become misleading to those who are not aware of all the little details involved which affect these sorts of calculations. If your mind is begging the question, why would one government allow two different agencies within it's oversight to develop two different systems that do nearly the same thing only slightly differently? Well It is a good question, and I have two answers. First answer is that the government is big and the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing, Partly true because one of the hands belongs to the military and they like secrets. Second answer is Politics and Agency Culture. Government has branches and funding comes from different places and for different reasons. They all have their own way of doing things. In the most basic way of comparing the two datum, the problem is that some things about it are apples and oranges, You have 2 frames of references that utilize differing frames of references so you have to agree on how you want to compare them. ie; You are using two different models to define earth center so what way should you compare them? Ok from one to the other looking from both directions, the other is 1 meter away in both the horizontal and vertical components. But it does not end there. Both datum use different mathematical models to define things further, so how do we define a term or a baseline for reference? One person said assuming the GPS system has it's own references to which the formulas are applied after the radio work is done, that would show a difference right? Well I suppose so, but it then becomes a 3 way comparison. We would not be directly comparing Datum, we would be comparing the Datum against the Satellite Triangulation methodology. Probably close enough for the answer they want, but the answer is not be all end all because it will vary all over the globe no matter where you measure it, yet they are so closely matched that it would be like comparing 2 BMW M3 Sedans in a full on spec for spec race, with the only major difference being the Stereo Package, and that one is owned by a Man in New York, and the other is owned by a Lady in L.A. They are so similar in what they do that no one bothers to do a comparison, they just know that they need to use one for some things and the other one for other things and leave it at that. So far, and I have checked into it, no one I have spoken to so far is aware of a comparison they feel will give a Certified answer. They know there are programs that calc datum shifts, but they refuse to endorse them because they cannot certify the accuracy of the algorithms being used as up to the specs they would expect. To survey it properly there seems like it would be a problem as well. You spend 2 days surveying an NGS Tri Station with RTK, but that is not your comparison. The NGS grid is adjusted through a Least squares method, so I suppose we need to find a way to adjust our survey to WGS84. So now you are comparing two things that can argumentably be hard to define terms for, because there is more than one camp here and they see this different ways. Bleh. For that matter we could give the question asker a reasonable answer, and they could still play devil's advocate and say How do you know, or how can you be sure? Or what did you use as a reference model? It could go on forever. Quick and dirty you can take a snapshot of the 2 datum in one place and wait for the accuracy to need to see the difference, but the scientists could still ask the question, as compared to what? For most usability, it is enough to know that there is enough of a difference that we should use the one that is recommended for the purpose. Are you bombing or engineering a civil works project? That is the criteria we use for determining which Datum to use. Rob

So from now on we could see: TNLNSL Signed by: +StarBrand, +The Cow Spots, +Sissy-n-CR, hydee, +Damenace, +Fergus, +SGM & MRS D, +High-Tech Redneck, A^2, +WascoZooKeeper, jhwjohn, coolclay, +briansnat, +BlackyV, +emptydog, Eric K, +Bill D (wwh), evilC, +junglehair, mi&bl, 60North, +cache-tech, +k7-wave, +wimseyguy, mapjunkie, +Mr. 0, +davy boy, +Ttepee, Sparticus, +blazerfan, +chubby forest monkey, +splashman, +Jamie Z, +Marcie/Eric, kashia, +Benhamtroll, The Shrink, & Rainbow Girl, +Baston, +AuntieWeasel, +Cunning Planners, +dogbreathcanada, +Team Perks, +cache_test_dummies, +rutson, +Skip_, +Artemis, joegeodesist, +Team Nazgul, Inukshuk, +GlobalRat, +suzylou, +gnbrotz, +Team GPSaxophone, +Gary & Jane, +popop, epeli, +southdeltan, +The Scout, +Learned Gerbil, +piper28, Wild Chicken, +mtndave, +shinebar, +reveritt, fourdogs, Dagg, +Spencersb, heikkiuu, +Gavotteers, +density524, +EScout, +Robespierre, +geodinks, zwoelf, +CT Trampers, +The Wombles, +SD Rowdies, +Globetrotter.uk, +Jodel, chap183, Team Tayjam, +splicingdan, lefty2448, ArtMan, +pjmorse, Murphy T. Fox, +cameltrekor, +minstrelcat, Delaypat, +Laogai, +CuplaKiwis, +pwcorg, +Seamus, +LBSurfer, +DavidT21 & Fisherwoman, +jacques0, +geoholic28, yakbuggy, javaa, +Prime Suspect, +Daisy&me, +CW Iams, +lycos112, +BedlingtonDuo, RandLD, +Eckington, +KennyHannahJacob, Hurtz Donut, +rufty tufty boys, blue5, +VegasCacheHounds, Ithaca1937, +CurmudgeonlyGal, +G'n,G, StripeMark, davester, MisterT, +flask, +Doughball, +ferryfax, +MT Fellwalker, +Sidereus Nuncius, +clearpath, +WestCoastAdmin, +GeoCraig, Pinster56, +LutherMan, +Dr123d, +ozarksjim, HD462, marco2206, +Buddaman, +The Likely Lads - Ian and Trevor, yoopers, +naffita, +heather3781, +Cheminer Will, +Tired Boy, GeoPhishers, +rldill, +Bird Hunter, +RainbowCache, +gpsjeep, +GeekGirl, +xy,xx,xy,xy,xy,xy, +AllenLacy, mtlbiker, MURedDawg, +Tharagleb, +Rechercheuse, -Tiger-, +MaisOui & Avrohead, +sept1c_tank, Keystone Approver, +Strapped-4-Cache, Lakritz, +Team BMW-Biker uhh - no thanks

Okay, I got a bright red (hey, this color) BMW convertable... I was thinking about something like "the wind in my hair" or whatever but I want it to not sound like a cheezy name... This is my cannonball run entrant... Anybody got any ideas?

"Red BMW TB" Kinda like Yellow Jeep TB

"Move over, VW!! This is the BMW Bug."

RED ROCKER , Beamer Coop , Red Rover BMW ,

KBer... Still lots of snow in the forests... with crust of ice on top... Deb went thru a few times and got a nasty cut on her shin from a hidden branch... Also, the trails that are used by snowmobiles during the winter now have a deep coating of ice (in places 2' thick), where the snow was compacted by the sleds... AND MUD!!!! Lots of it!!! and deep! careful where u drive... we went to WAGONBURNER's Journey to the Spirit World ... and took a wrong turn on the jeep road into the cache... water & mud up the floorboards! Thank You Jeep for 4L and the built in snorkel on our Liberty GeoJeep!!! Never would have made it in a Lexus or BMW 4x4... let alone a RAV4 or other mid-size SUV... JEEP's ROCK!!! BTW... very kool cache WAGONBURNER!

Had similar experience just today! Driving down a busy road through town and wasn't paying close enough attention because I realized the GPS wasn't on. I had got in the truck, placed it in the cradle, and took off. I reached up to turn it on and cycle the screens through to the one I normally keep up while driving around. My wife screams, STOP!!! I slam on the breaks and just barely missed rear ending a Black $50,000 BMW X5 by only inches!! Thank God for anti-lock brakes!!! D-man

Hey, cool! Thanks for pointing it out or I never would have known... That place smells as nice as it looks right now too. Some of my photos were recenty used in the magazine for the local chapter of the BMW club magazine too, and they pay just as well. As to a local group and such, I'm still pondering the matter as I have mixed feelings about it. Cachecrashers, please don't be intimidated, I'm still a noob too!

you can find caches with a geko 101 or a 60cs just as well. One is the VW the ohter a BMW. I think the 60CS is more of a status symbol. Yes it is nice but you can do just as good a job with a Etrax. I would get a Etrax Yellow, and a PDA, POCKET PC. You will be able to upload gpx files to the PDA and Yellow and your be set. If you have old eyes then a 76 has a bigger screen. But do you need mapping capabilites NO. I would make sure what ever you get it can contect to you PC so you can load waypoints. cheers

just got an xj900f & bmw r850r...not that I'll be taking them caching after my posts about 4x4's...! The RBR sounds like a good idea-a bit like bsh's landmarks tour......

Scunthorpe's still safe though... What about s***e? I'm a bit confused about what's a swear word and what isn't these days. Tits, after all, are small birds. Anal is short for anal retentive and bastard is just the correct technical term for someone who drives a BMW 4" from your bumper. Let's see what the system makes of those. SP Edited to say S H I T E. It's an arm of the Muslim faith. Groundspeak is anti-Islamic shocker. Someone call my solicitor...

Penny and Tigger. IOM is only 33 miles by 12 miles. Although I have a vehicle I have done most of the caches here by bus and foot, bike etc. No need for a 4 x 4. I must admit though the island is full of those gas guzzling cars but most if not all have never seen a rough track, let alone the mud. Status symbols, along with the Mercedes and BMW s. Take a week or more here and breath the fresh air, see the views and eat kippers for tea. OH, and do some geocaching.

BTW: The iFinder Phd is "Waterpoof to IPX7 standard". I missed the mention of being water proof, on the Lowrance web site they do not have it in bold print and you have to hunt around for it. This forum is filled with people that use GPSr more than most. Sure Lowarnce has a line of high quality products and their roots are in the Marine field. But when you start looking at Lowarance for Geocaching it seems they are falling a little short as far as features. I looked at Lowrance last Aug. at a trade show in Salt Lake city, as far as use in Geocaching it did not see enough that would sway me purchase a Lowarance GPS. When I look at any GPS I am looking at with through the eyes of a buyer for a retail outlet. To spend money on an item to sell next Garmin and Magellan is not like spending your own money, if the item does not sell it has to be put on clearance and that eats away at the profit margin. As far as I can see, Lowarnce behind Garmin and Magellan. IF Garmin and Magellan are the Mercedea and BMW of the GPS market for geocaching, Lowarance could be the Kia Profit Margins being very tiny on GPS products (something around 20% which is very little) there is not a lot of room for markdown without losing money. I tried to Lowarnce several years ago, before geocaching was around. Then about the time Geacaching started I could even find Lowarnce the trades shows I was attending. Last year was the first time in years I was able to find them at a show, they may have been at Marine industry trade shows, but they were not a shows geared to the hiking and backpacking industry.

Boy I am glad I sold my BMW

It does not appear possible to switch off the front fog lights on many BMWs. Unfortunately, many BMWs were assembled incorrectly, and the fuse which feeds the indicator switch was mistakenly connected to the front fog lights, hence fog lights are always on, indicators never work. Heavily modified citroen Saxos also seem to suffer from this problem. And when the fog lights are on the whole of the right side of the car also becomes strongly magnetised to often extreme extent. You can observe this when a BMW pulls onto a motorway and is immediately pulled to the right hand lane by the steel crash barriers. The force holding the car is so strong that movement to the left hand lane when the driver needs to leave the motorway must be rapid and as close to the junction as possible.

I don't object to them as 4x4's, but can't understand there attraction as a 'fashion symbol'. I reckon 90% of 4x4's on the road are used as a family car, never pulling a caravan, scout tents or whatever. A people carrier would probably serve them better, but hey, they're not as cool! Getting seriously off topic, but on a similar note, is it possible to switch off the front fog lamps on a BMW? Oh No! Now I've done it...

any neighborhood where the cacher would look out of place might be sketchy. if you were an affleunt person dressed in a nice suit driving a BMW you'd look WAY out of place on the notch road, where you'd be better coumouflaged if you were a plaid-clad guy with a couple of hound dogs riding an ATV. i am clearly out of place in ANY city because i am unable to mask my sense of "WOW!" at the general big-ness of things. in some neighborhoods simply carrying an expensive toy makes you a good candidate for trouble. racist, my patootie. any neighborhood that's suspicious of outsiders can be a rough one.