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I'm a noob, and like Jeremy I'd like a commentary on "rule changes". Having said that, it doesn't matter if the forums are a cross section of cachers or not. People will gravitate to what they find useful. I also participate in a Boy Scout forum, and the very few posters there are absolutely no way in heck a respresentation of Scouting in general. Both forums are useful and fun, so I'm here. Its like the auto industry: Since I don't drive a BMW, the BMW club is useless to me. I'm still a car owner, just with differences.

I still think you are being wildly optimistic about the cost, but even if you are not... OK, let's assume your $200K is the actual number... For a company the size of GS to simply eat that $200k and not pass it along? Again, this gets back to what I said earlier, that people have this perception that Jeremy is just rolling around in a hot tub filled with 100's, that is, when he isn't out driving his BMW 9 series. Quite the contrary, $200K is a staggering amount of money for a company the size of GS. There are tens of thousands of companies that are 10 to 100 times larger than GS that operate less than $200k above or below breakeven, and even for them, a delta of $200,000 would be a complete game changer. This is what the posting of the Louis CK video was all about. GS gives the vast majority of its users the vast majority of their services for free, and when they need to make all their salaries and pay all their bills from the tiny sliver that is left to make any money from, they are villainized. $200k isn't optimistic, its more like the idiot price for someone that walks into a new car dealership and pays whats on the sticker (and if you do a little research, you will find that this is the top price for 2 million daily hits). $50k is what they will get if they have more than 10 minutes of negotiating experience. But, lets play with $200k, for a company that has revenues of approximately $4 million (and yes, this is gs's approximate revenue, for some quick math, 125k users, figure 1/2 pay annually at $30, and 1/2 pay quarterly at $40), its a 5% hit. For a company that has no significant expense in the product that they sell (they aren't out placing the caches, they don't own the caches, they very simply have a listing site, nothing more), there is definitely room in the budget for a 5% variance. This comes to less than $2 annually for each premium member and still giving it to free members. More realistic, they would pay less than $50k, which would only be a 1.25% hit to the budget. ANY company that operates that tight won't be in business for long. This comes to less than 50 cents annually for each premium member.

I still think you are being wildly optimistic about the cost, but even if you are not... OK, let's assume your $200K is the actual number... For a company the size of GS to simply eat that $200k and not pass it along? Again, this gets back to what I said earlier, that people have this perception that Jeremy is just rolling around in a hot tub filled with 100's, that is, when he isn't out driving his BMW 9 series. Quite the contrary, $200K is a staggering amount of money for a company the size of GS. There are tens of thousands of companies that are 10 to 100 times larger than GS that operate less than $200k above or below breakeven, and even for them, a delta of $200,000 would be a complete game changer. This is what the posting of the Louis CK video was all about. GS gives the vast majority of its users the vast majority of their services for free, and when they need to make all their salaries and pay all their bills from the tiny sliver that is left to make any money from, they are villainized.

There may be many reasons why a persons find count is what it is. Besides that person may really get the bug and pick up their level of finds to one that you may find to be of value and their input worthy. But if they get the feeling their input is not worth anything early then they may never bother kicking it up. Good to know you think of those people as bums. But the person that hasn't bought the BMW in your example has not used the service of BMW at all so no they probably would not bother listening to that person. But the person that buys one car every year or every ten years or only once for that matter has used the service. And sometimes what the person who has only used the service once thinks is important, maybe there is a reason they only used it once. I would only add that I know of at least cacher that has been a member since July of 2002 and has 24 finds. Close to your 10 a year line in the sand. I also believe that gc.com gives a great deal of weight to what this person thinks on how the company should be doing business. I could be wrong on that point but I feel pretty sure they have the ear of TPTB.

In the context of the validity of someone's opinion, I don't think the find count matters. In the context of trying to decide how a company should be doing business, it matters a lot. If a person who buys a new BMW every year has a suggestion on how to improve service, they should probably at least listen. If a bum who hasnt had $20 to his name for the last 5 years tries to tell BMW how to run their company better, I doubt they will give it a second thought.

Hi guys, Thanks for all the interest in the thread... here's my 2p worth: Firstly, it must be said that stonefisk travels in style The Suzuki Jeep doesn't pass go because it's too much like the Toyota RAV4/Honda CR-V - it's more a lifestyle car than an offroader. If I did go down that road (and plans are afoot) then it would have to be a used (possibly ex-military) Land Rover Defender 90. They're just cool. And as for geocaching in one - it's very, very practical but those long motorway trips would be a pain. The BMW 316 has been up for consideration due to its looks, reliablity (those engines have been known to do up to 4 million miles) and all-important RWD setup. Unfortunatly this comes at a price, as insurance companies have "roundabouts and rain" in mind. Insurance quotes for a BMW 316 are 40%-50% more than a similar priced Cavalier/Mondeo. At least that's what I got back. But as for price - these E30's go for £400 upwards, so it would be one for the future. inukshuk merits special attention for his Merc Estate. These were built to cover huge mileages and many still do. A local taxi driver I know here is heading for over 500k on the clock in one without major worries. They also look cool and would carry 5 adults and gear to an event without a bother. Sadly, for me the engine sizes are too big at the moment (I'm 23). I really would love one... Lance, my friend in motoring and pilot of the 'cruise ship' (he said it, not me) that is the Citroen C5... my MkII Golf GTi restoration project has not gone away (you know). you can tell the wife that I did manage to get the smell out of the car after the 7 days on the road during the "Cache O'The North". It did take an afternoon and a "New Car Smell" tree, as well as a trip to the car wash but now she looks loverly again. As for a used VW... you see, they're not madly reliable cars either - don't believe everything you hear. Considering one as a used car for geocaching... I looked at a 1995 MkIII Golf Estate for a bargain price - but the basic spec is very poor - the 1.4 CL didn't even have power steering, and the 1.4 barely gets 60bhp out. Space it may have, but it won't tug 5 lads and equipment into North Wales. In fact, only the GL/GT/GTi/VR6 versions have anything decent in them... and there's the insurance hike again. A Citroen diesel was on the shortlist, the engine and mpg is supposed to be fascinating, but as The Hokesters say, doubts hang over the car itself. As for the Ford Focus, they start at £3,000 (1999) and I dare say, are just a bit too mundane for me. I have driven them and am always suprised, particularly by the handling and especially the zetec engined ones. mattwaggie - a Pug GTi would be just lovely - they're going cheap too. Sadly, it would have to be a 1.9 and the insurance is crazy on it. And you'd have to either chain it down or fit an aftermarket immobiliser and alarm. Me, I'd go for a Fiat Uno Turbo. Just for the noise. So... you're probably curious as to what I'm hankering after... well, I'm not sure yet. It'll all come down to whether I can wedge the GPS between dash and windscreen.

You probably still can't get a Focus for that little without it having done a 1/4 mill miles but if you could raise the money to go for a 1.6 then that is the best petrol car you could get for your money. You could get a Suzuki jeep for this kind of money but avoic ones that have had any flarey, chromy things done to them because they are bound to have been boy racered and that just doesn't do Suzukis any favours. Avoid anything with a lot of electic gadgets if you are paying this sort of money especially if it is French or Italian! A quick search on AutoTrader.co.uk (for my area of course) revealed this 1993 K Reg BMW 316i Motordrive 4 Doors, Manual, Saloon, Petrol, Red. alarm remote controlled, Bmw alloy wheels, Body Coloured Bumpers and Mirrors, power steering, Electric mirrors, Electric windows, Sunroof. which if it drove well would be a reasonable buy, should be reliable, parts reasonably priced second hand, etc. Email me through profile if you want any more advice. 10 years in the motor trade and as an MOT authorised examiner I know what makes it through when it gets to this sort of value. P.S. No offence if anyone owns anything french, italian, suzuki or broken - these are general observations only.

I was using a BMW Z3 and Saab 97X, but about a month ago picked up a Jeep Wrangler Sport, which is fantastic for the forest service roads in my area.

It's a BMW F650GS motorcycle. Tomorrow when I have time to take a pic of it i'll upload one here. My car is a BMW 325i and I really don't take it off the pavement, especially with the sport suspension and low profile tire. Rocks tend to reek havoc on those!. But when you live really close to a National Forest some cachers tend to hide them off the beaten path! LOL. Which I want to do and now I can. Ken

However..... The OP was asking about a GPS for geocaching. The ratio of owned units on GEOCACHING.COM is extremely relevant, since the only people posting here are geocachers. And, I have a friend who owns four businesses, and has owned several BMW's and at least one Lexus, and now drives a fully loaded Kia, and says he's happier with it than any luxury car he's ever owned. Personally, I can't afford one, so I wouldn't know. Later!

I see more Hyundais on the road than BMWs, but that doesn't mean that Hyundais are the superior cars. That's because, in your analogy, BMW's cost much more than the Hyundais. In the GPS world the prices in each category run similar and an overwhelming Garmin market share was no accident. No, my point is that popularity is not a valid way to determine quality or value.

I see more Hyundais on the road than BMWs, but that doesn't mean that Hyundais are the superior cars. That's because, in your analogy, BMW's cost much more than the Hyundais. In the GPS world the prices in each category run similar and an overwhelming Garmin market share was no accident. Garmin units have free (and legal) maps available at various online 3rd party sites and you can even make your own (after the learning curve). I wish the other manufacturers would realize that the ability to make and load maps made from freely available vector data (shapefiles) sells alot of GPS units. I like Delorme units but Magellan totally lost me with their Triton fail and I never looked back. It's possible that Maggie got their act together with the new eXplorist line but their mapping options dissapoint me (see above rant about making your own maps).

I learned of the golf ball thing on one of my first cache hunts in a park in a local suburb. The parking area is up on a hill, with the rest of the park sloping downwards to a lower flat area, bordered by a thin row of woods, with some very fancy houses behind it. (the houses face a lake, with thier backyards facing this park.) Apparently the parking area provides a nice Teebox for people to hit out into these woods - people who dont know there are $300,000+ houses, BMW's, Mercedes etc sitting just behind those trees. Well As Im searching, I begin to collect these old range balls to use as lake balls in the future. Just as I zero'd in on the cache stash spot, I heard a loud crashing coming thru the woods behind me. I turned around just in time to spot one of the homeowners coming at me in a rush, very red faced and cursing! He is looking for the *S.O.B* that was hitting balls about 10 minutes before I showed up- Apparently one found his Lexus's hood - a second his wifes BMW Convertible's rear window. Here I stand, with a hond full of golf balls... . . . It took some fast explaining, showing him my maps, print out & GPS'r - I told him we were standing within 2 feet of it, and showed him the arrow. I walked around a cluster of trees to grab it, then went over to him and showed it to him. He finally believed me, but warned me to never return to hit balls, "Or Else" I signed the log quickly, and waited until he turned his back to replace the cache before retreating double time to the truck. Im pretty sure the homeowner was ready to do some seriuos A**kickin, and I wasnt waiting around for him to change his mind. So, now whenever I see them - I hestitate to grab them- In a cache? I have only ever seen junk balls- and personally consider them geo-garbage.

I guess I should cancel my campout that weekend with 30 Boy Scouts to whom I am introducing Geocaching. Why would this be necessary when the tool/process to fix poorly maintained caches already exists? I vote for removing the "u"! My Grandma used to tell me not to point at others because there were always three fingers pointing back at you...In other words, I have enough to do without somebody else minding my business for me! Dear Sir, We, the neighborhood association, have decided that your BMW is not kept clean enough and is not waxed often enough for our taste. Persuant to TPTB, we are allowing your neighbor to take ownership of your valued BMW and your first born child(For labor costs and their hair was not cut to the specified length.) Yes, we know that others have yet to wash and wax their car but we had to set a precedent with someone! Yes, we would like to mind our own business but, well, err, we didn't have Skeeter's Grandmother to instill her wisdom upon us and have too much time on our hands. Sincerely, Your Friends, Much Love, The Neighborhood Association. BTW- I have a pick-up truck, no beemer here! EDIT- to add BTW

What do you think a business is? It's really just one or more individuals working to provide goods/services to others. The people who run companies have an obligation to provide financial information to the company's owners/investors. In the case of a public company, that includes potential owners/investors, which includes pretty much anyone, so they have to make such information public. That isn't the case for private companies like Groundspeak or the Chinese take-out place down the street. They're under no more obligation to make such information public than you and I are. Feel free to ask people (whether individuals or private companies) for private financial information. You have the right to ask. Just don't be surprised if they don't comply. And regarding the "support the site" comments: I don't support the site the way I support non-profit charities. That is a gift, and I receive no tangible value in exchange for my gift. I support the site the way I support local stores, by giving them my business. It isn't a gift. I'm paying for goods/services. But when I like what the company does (whether Groundspeak or the Chinese take-out place down the street), I'm happy that they profit when I do business with them, because that means that they will continue to run their company, and they will continue to provide the goods/services that I enjoy. Thank you for this post. I probably deleted four attempts at a response yesterday. Your post made the point much better than any of my attempts. That was indeed a nice post! Who doesn't love a Chinese food analogy? Better than the tired ice cream analogy. So much arrogance in these threads over the years, people even being called freeloaders for not ponying up $30/yr., especially when I'd say it's half at most of their revenue. Besides all that, the answer has been right under my nose the whole time. I myself work for a privately owned company of about 50 employees, about the same exact size as Groundspeak, Inc. Our sales are usually 5-6 Million dollars a year. The owner drives a BMW, owns a Yacht, and has a pretty nice house (I've been in it). Is he a millionaire? I'd say no. So I dunno, are there any Beemers in the Groundspeak parking lot?

Only $30.00 to be an elitist for a full year! I can't believe how great this is; I can't afford a BMW or a second home in the Caymen Islands, I have to clean my own home and mow my own lawn, and I have even been known to purchase used items from thrift stores and garage sales so I never in all my dreams believed that I could be an elitist. WOW, I have finally made it, maybe next I can become a republican...maybe not.

I find the GPS speed to be very accurate. I would absolutely believe it to be accurate within 0.1 mph presuming no signifigant interference (overpasses, trees, skyscrapers) I find that my Dodge truck speedo indicates about 1 mph faster than GPS at any speed above 20, and my BMW motorcycle reads 60 when the GPS shows 55. The BMW bikes are known for having "optimistic" speedometers, and in fact the specification from the factory allow up to a 10% error on the "optimistic" side, plus a static error of a few mph!

My rusted, cracked windshield, muddy, s**tbox of a 1997 VW Golf (with a geocaching logo in the r/rear window, BTW). My numero uno cache machine. I've located caches while with my wife in her new BMW but I'm tired of hearing "do you have to open that filthy thing in here?" so I enjoy using the Golf.

It does seem like a fair offer - but perhaps you can still contact their Customer Service Manager up in Joburg for a last try. I agree with your principle that it is a software problem - but the lack of warranty etc. is a bummer - I guess a bit like expensive BMW and Mercs that have Electronics that stop the car working - and only way out is to replace the black box at a high cost. Hope you get joy.

quote:Originally posted by Breaktrack:Well, I'm right there with ya man! I'm making my purchase end of this month or begining of next. I looked at all the Harleys, etc, and found I was not in that price range...lol. Started looking at my options and researching. Found out some very interesting facts. Harleys now have about 52% foreign made components... I didn't know that. Especially when they are constantly blasting those who buy *foreign* bikes. So as I looked more into it, I found that Honday makes many of it's bikes right here in the USA... didn't know that either. So, I'm buying a Honday VTX 1300C and not going the *independent* route of looking like every other Harley owner. The Harley-Lemmings as I call them. LOL. Of course, the rivalry as far as I'm concerned is all in good fun, but some of the Harley folks are really serious about that stuff...hehehehe. Just makes it more fun to poke fun, know what I mean? That goes just about for everything made nowadays (foreign cars made in US and US ones made in foreign countries). I don't think I won't a showroom floor bike. I think I want something individual or less common. I guess something more customized and of course more costly. I never really thought of going back to school for anything, but the more I think about it, learning motorcycle repair might be pretty cool. I know my father in law would love it. He's always been into bikes. Both he and my bro in law raced dirtbikes and now my FIL has a BMW. Had a Harley, but wanted the BMW instead. Actually had 2 Harleys. Had the Buell for my MIL, but she never really rode it. He just sold them not to long ago. Speaking of "bikes". Wonder if Jeremy's Vespa has a Geo logo on it...lol Brian www.woodsters.com

You give up the BMW for a Toyota Tacoma so you have plenty of ground clearance to park on the side of the road. It's true! Dang! And I really liked that car.

Just won a pair of 120s from BMW motorrad (their magazine for BMW motorcycle enthusiasts). My girlfriend and I are looking forward to trying out our new toys.

Looks like you have a contender to join you - perhaps this guy should be recruited to caching? BMW Offroading What are those roads? I think that Bats already can disclaim the off road part of this guy when he saw where i took the Corsa.... and that was only at the start of the path.... I think maybe I need to get a camera fitted to the car.... Tinkerbell-GP took a video but it was from too far away as she decided that been in the car was not for her.... I will try and see if I can get the video and post it.... I have one of me going through flood waters too, but that was on roads.... no fun there....

Looks like you have a contender to join you - perhaps this guy should be recruited to caching? BMW Offroading

I saw a BMW with one of the magnetic TB tags on it this morning in Tacoma. We were on Portland Ave around 8:00 (yes I was late for work, again). They turned left onto I-705. I snapped a picture of the TB tag with my phone but I don't know if I'll be able to make out the number. We'll have to see when I get home and can zoom in farther.