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The biggest group I have been part of has been about 30 people, and that was a one off to find two caches in a tricky place. Many people were not willing to attempt those caches, except in a group. Most groups I go in are five or less people. I go to events here, and I have never heard talk of groups of 50 plus. Regional differences it seems.

People talk. Groups became quite popular where I cache. Especially when the province experimented with allowing events for group caching (I think it's still allowed but COVID has happened). Some groups included 50+ people, there was one caching event that attracted 100 cachers everyone logging finds on all the finds collected that day. It was enough of a problem that someone else (not me -- instead I stopped hiding caches) tried to get everyone in a group to sign his caches' logs. They thought it was funny to get one person to visit his cache, an ammo can and completely fill a thick logbook with each of the group's signatures as requested (LOL), then log an NM (to poke fun at the CO for his unreasonable request). Also, in my case for almost a month, every day I got email alerts to let me know someone found my cache -- almost all were cut n paste logs (they seem to share the same GSAK cut n paste log). So it can be a problem if the numbers-game takes hold in a community. Fake finds are allowed depending on how it's done. The only way I can see to decrease the problem the OP outlines is to take the score out of find counts. But they'd have to get rid of stats (and challenge caches because they require visible public stats). Statistics are a big driving force for people who play geocaching.

You haven't got or don't supply us with all of the pertinent facts for this 'other' account that you say got the short end of the stick, so there is absolutely no way to compare the two instances that you find in conflict in your earlier posts that complain of a double standard by gc.com. Unless you intend to have the guidelines changed, the account that Keystone has addressed seems very odd, but well within the guidelines. So if you are prepared to explain fully what historical details got the bee in your bonnet regarding the 'banished' account, fine. If not, the merits of the original comparison you have been trying to draw are something only you can determine for yourself, and soliciting help here isn't going to prove very practical. We don't have those details. Are you hoping that we'll start some sort of email campaign to gc.com on your behalf? If not, I would suggest you take your issues directly to them. The rest of us have no clue what really transpired with regard to the banished account, so why are you using this forum to argue the point? As I noted earlier, it seems Dr. Alien's caches, whatever their merit (or lack) as caches, are being maintained a hell of a lot better than many of the true 'vacation caches' I often complain about here whose purpose appears to be only to try to get another country souvenir for finders in difficult areas of the world where caches just don't easily work. Properly placed and maintained caches are the basis for your issue. Improperly placed and maintained caches are the basis for mine. Frankly, I'd rather talk about my issue.

"You could post some real truth in the forums. First, Trump2020 is not my account. They are a geocaching friend of mine I invited to try Waymarking. I have several family members, we all have geocaching accounts. Two of my dogs have their own accounts. Groundspeak don't have a problem with us supporting them by being paying members. I approve my own WM because I enjoy doing it. I don't follow your made up rules, I make up my own. Mine work best for me. But please tell all you troll friends that want me gone that you were offered a seat as the fourth person in the LFP group and you declined. I am the founder of the category. You are just choking on sour grapes. We were willing to leave, but your forums trash talk upset me enough that I choose to stay and lead and manage the category I founded.Blame yourself."

Hi all, I'm trying to locate someone in the NYC area who might want to speak at an event we run called Hobby. It's a monthly event where we invite 4 speakers to talk about their hobbies for 5 minutes each, and answer some questions from a group of very interested semi-strangers. We've got an event coming up very soon, (Tuesday, November 16th, from 7pm-8pm), and we'd be thrilled if someone in the NYC area wanted to share with us? Here's our HOBBY page: http://www.getHarvest.com/hobby and here's out HOBBY channel, with video of previous lectures: http://vimeo.com/channels/hobby What do you think? Anyone game? Feel free to contact me directly at karen [at] getHarvest [dot] com - We'd love to have one of you geo-caching mavens share with us about what you do! Best Wishes, Karen — Karen Community Manager, Harvest — Harvest / 212.226.4160 / 187 Lafayette St, 6th Fl, New York City http://www.getHarvest.com http://twitter.com/harvest

Just a suggestion: maybe if you spent a teeny bit less time on the forums discussing how the system could be changed, people would not come to the (natural, IMO) conclusion that you want the system changed. 28 of your last 30 posts have been about changes to the geocaching web site. For someone who doesn't think anything needs to be changed, you sure do like to talk about it. A LOT.

The Geocache Talk podcast "4th Annual Podcast of Hope" had Mike Rowe and Dave Barsky on back in December. https://geocachetalk.com/all-about-the-4th-annual-podcast-of-hope/

I like how you're sympathetic to the CO's plight. Some seekers act so entitled that I sometimes side with the COs being annoyed even when I agree they could do better at maintaining their caches. I don't replace containers. That's not my job. When I suggested helping the CO, I meant working with the CO. If you are willing to replace containers in the name of improving your local cache quality, talk to the owner first and discuss what would make a good container, whether for a cache you're willing to go back to or a cache you're going to go to for the first time that you know from the logs has issues. Although actually fixing caches is a nice side effect, the real goal here is getting the CO to think more about maintenance and container quality and anything else you don't think he's thinking about enough. In my opinion, in the environment you are talking about, complaining about broken baggies and dampness *is* nitpicking. I wouldn't post NMs about those. Yes, admittedly they are things that suggest a need for maintenance, but they're always going to be problems in a climate like that, so pointing them out in find logs is the way to go, leaving it up to the CO to decide when they need to be dealt with. This is one of those things to push more to the friendly, non-log part of your relation with this CO, in my opinion. I'd wait for a while to get a feel for the culture and the overall quality before deciding which issues to push via NMs. Of course, more obvious cases such as broken containers need to be flagged for maintenance as soon as you discover them. I'm less sympathetic to you in this area. COs have their own lives. Like most of us, they sometimes overpromise. If I were you, I'd focus more on the successful find of a nice cache without judging the CO's performance. This is just another sign that they need council and education. I have no idea what your NMs look like, but even if they're the most polite and helpful missives on the planet, I suggest starting the conversation with something along the lines of, "I'm so sorry you felt like you had to delete my NM. What did I say that made you feel like it you couldn't leave it in the log?" And, of course, sneak in "Oh, by the way, I don't think you know that deleting the NM doesn't clear the NM flag. You should post an OM to explain what you did to correct the maintenance issue, and that will clear the flag for you."

It's good to hear you've started a dialog. Make friends and try to see if you can convince him that it's a *friendly* gesture to flag a problem for the CO with an NM so he can go take care of it. That could lead to the broader question of whether the CO needs to go out a fix problems at all, since that might be the more significant problem you're facing. If you have trouble getting him to see the light -- it might take time -- talk to him about the possibility of you helping out with his maintenance tasks. It seems quite likely that the culture in your new area doesn't really expect problems to be fixed, and, if so, you'll have to work hard to swift the culture in another direction, and getting them in the habit of fixing caches might help even though it's you doing most of the work. I would understand if you got shy about posting NMs, at least for a while, but I'd continue to look for his caches and post the appropriate NMs, perhaps trying to add a light-hearted air to the friendly disagreement the two of you are having over whether NMs should be posted. Good luck!

Do you know any local cachers? Talk to them! (or email them, at any rate) The adoption process is straightforward enough >> https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=38&pgid=54 And actually, you only have 3 left that haven't yet been archived. The other 3 have already been archived.

How do you know that before you talk to them? Besides, even if you do already know that, all you're saying is that there's another, even bigger reason to talk to these people and try to fix your broken community instead of putting up with people that are intentionally irritating.

The difference is between people that think regulating the behavior of others is generally a good idea and the only question is how to regulate them, and people that think regulating the behavior of others is generally a bad thing to do, so a clear justification is required before you take that action. In other words, between people that think order is the most important thing and those that think freedom is the most important thing. Unfortunately, US popular opinion has, over the last half century, shifted from the latter to the former. Ironic, since the generation that originally saw itself as anti-establishment has been so instrumental in enlarging and fortifying the establishment now that they're in charge of it. Increasingly here in the geocaching world, people talk as if their standards should be enforced without any regard to whether the things they want to rule out are actually bad things as opposed to merely being things they don't like even though others do. As in our politics, this leads to unending arguments because the rule proposing side does not consider objections worthy of consideration as long as the rules they are proposing have popularity on their side. They don't respond to -- in fact, they don't even consider -- the objections that are repeatedly raised and, instead, repeat their opinions as if people will decide to believe in those opinions if they're repeated often enough. Which, sadly, turns out to be an effective approach.

Good time to consider what you mean by "it". If you mean the "problem" of poorly chosen ratings, I deny it's a problem. If you mean those specific examples of badly rated caches, what you should do about it is talk to the CO and other members of your community that support badly rated caches. Make your arguments for accurate ratings to them and try to talk them out of rating caches arbitrarily. Among other things, remind them that challenges based on ratings are based on ratings because the ratings reflect the challenge of the caches, so their bogus ratings aren't really helping people meet those challenges, they're just giving them a way to lie about whether they've met them in spirit.

Bingo! Now go join Tennis Courts, talk to the NW History Buff and see what you can get done there. Serving as an officer there would serve as a good "introductory experience" to category ownership. Keith

To start off, I was in Maine yesterday and met a customer right at the Delorme building exit off of I-95. I went in and bought a spiral bound atlas. Looked at the software for the pn-60, NEAT!!! My question is... Can you use your laptop as the screen for a pn-60. Bascially, if I have a mount for my laptop in the truck, can the gps talk back to the laptop and display the information? Since the 60 has a small screen I thought thismight be kind of cool. I know thay offer the small gps units to plug into the laptop, but I thought this might just save some $$$. Don't know why I didn't ask when I as at Delorme. Thanks Hud

In that thread it turns out that many of those COs were not actually maintaining those caches. They had strings of DNFs, NMs, no OMs, reviewer notes and disables. I see that you were rewarded a Virtual. And looking at your stats I'd say well deserved. You have a reasonable amount of hides that you look after without getting a reviewer involved. You even check your caches just to check if they're still in good order. The anti-algorithm talk and 'why don't I get to own a virtual' protests spoke volumes.

BAD NEWS about the Myncaster station. I stopped by there today and was able to talk with a farmer just north of it. What appears on satellite views, in the vicinity of where the station once was, is an old barn & hay shed. The Myncaster station was moved north and west from there some time ago and has since been destroyed. SOB, SOB! Keith

You see, that's why analogy's don't really work all that well as arguments. Money = FP's breaks down because you are spending any money given by an employer (even investing is giving that money to someone else to "hold" for you) which you don't do with FP's. Employee of the Month is handled very differently with each list. So trying to force one thing (FP's) into another model (money) only works just so far. So let's quit arguing about a poor analogy, talk about FP's and goals in "awarding" or "collecting" them.

First off I'm not picking on this person, not going to say what cache it is or who placed it, but I did want to talk about it and see if you had any similar experiences. Was alerted of a geocache recently published near me last night so I went out but was unable to find it. Sent the OP a message asking for a hint, and they directed me pretty far from the coordinates, about 20-30 feet away. I went back this morning with the hint and lo and behold tossed in the bushes pretty far away was just a simple GLAD container with 2 pieces of blank scrap paper, a clothespin, and a rubber eraser. FTF, hooray? I checked out their profile and this person joined only a couple weeks ago with 3 finds and 3 hides. I understand not everyone has money to spend on official geocaching containers and crazy swag, and in a cute way this is basically geocaching at its essence in a little Tupperware container, but would any of you been happy to find this after searching 2 different days for a total of maybe an hour and a half? There's a reason why Geocaching recommends you find something like 20 caches before hiding your own. Honestly when I saw it in the bush I thought it was some random trash someone threw out of their car window as they passed by, I know you've all seen the type of stuff I'm referring to while hunting. The placement was also super strange. I'm going to message the OP and mention that there is a big tree absolutely perfect for hiding this in about 20 feet up the trail, with lots of holes and hiding spots. Tossed in a random bush by the side of the road way off the coordinates is not fun to find for anyone. Anyway, hopefully I can work with this new player to maybe help them and make this cache better, and was wondering if you guys have any similar stories? Have any worse experiences? All things considered it's not THAT bad, so I know you guys must have some horror stories worth sharing.

My first Geocaching experience was in 2008, right when the activity had gained a lot of traction. One of my extended relatives asked me if I had heard of Geocaching. I forget the exact explanation he used, but I was very intrigued. My cousins and I hopped in the car and joined the search with my relative. I didn't find any of the caches (they were all micros), but the people with me did. I signed my name and the rest is history. I think the best way to get muggles into it is to talk about it. I usually bring up the names of trails I walk and mention Geocaching. They either give me a puzzled look or a "Yeah I've heard about it." Also, there is a trend on Tik Tok that I learned of recently, so a lot of younger people are being introduced to it that way. Last week, I found a cache in front of some muggles. They asked what I was doing and I explained Geocaching to them. They responded positively, so I might have helped a "wizard" discover themselves! My favorite is to just ask a muggle if they want to go Geocaching with me. I've done this maybe once and it was a good time.

This makes no sense. FPs are used in so many different ways for so many different reasons that if you're concerned about what they mean for others, it means you probably shouldn't use them at all as there's no way you can use your FP in a manner that means the same for everyone else. You're basically saying that someone who gives a FP for a FTF (it certainly happens) or gives a FP to the cache because they know the CO (this happens as well) should factor into your decision to award a FP the same way someone who gives a FP for an amazing location or a FP for a rewarding caching experience from start to end. How will you ever be able to meet the expectation for every reason a FP is awarded? You earned the FP and it's yours to give as you deem warranted. Why should someone else's thoughts about what they believe a FP means factor into your decision to award your FP to a cache? Cerberus provided the appropriate link to rebut this. Some cachers did (and still do) use it that way but that was never the overriding intent. It was only an addition that allowed cachers to add FPs to caches for whatever reason they felt like awarding one. I've added them for a cool creative container, the amazing location, the total experience from start to finish, for a cache placed in remembrance of a caching friend, for the opportunity to talk to an Amish gentleman in a cemetery and learn the history of the church and the community, and for other reasons. I guarantee that many cachers wouldn't have found the cache where I was talking to the Amish man a "good" cache. It was just a micro container along a fence line in a cemetery. The experience I had was what made that cache FP worthy. If I were ever over in @barefootjeff's neck of the woods, you can bet I'd look at the caches he's given FPs to because we appear to have similar tastes in cache experiences. I do use FPs to help filter caches when going to a new area for a family vacation. Caches that I ordinarily might remove from my list stay on it due to the number of FPs it has accrued. Sometimes the cache turns out to be worth it while other times it is a dud of a cache. They will never guarantee a good/great experience since they're awarded for too many various reasons to be consistent. However, the odds are usually a bit better than just some randomly filtered out caches with far less (or none) FPs.

Let's set up a long term thread that we can all talk about caching in and around San Diego County.

If they're your buddies, then talk to them about it. If they aren't your buddies, make them your buddies and then talk to them about it. I certainly appreciate you wanting to use that area for your own caches, and I do wish you'd had your chance, but, at the same time, a lot of people will enjoy those caches, so it's not immediately obvious leaving the trail blank so you could hide one or two great caches would have added up to better caching overall. The best way to strike a good balance is to interact with the other COs to share the area. Some people here would ban such a series legally in the same way they banned you by getting there first. I'm not convinced one is better than the other.

@ cghove: You quoted me right, but It seemed I was not to be able to explain in the quoted section what my problem (and it is not really a problem) is. Yes, I know we talk about two parties (or do i have to say single companies). Yes, I know this are different sources. But, what I wanted to show with my comment is following (as written in the sentence that followed, which too can be read in your quote of my post:" It is running, I'm logged in and it does what it should do, but it says it does not, funny!" ) meaning. So again, I try to eplain what happens here. I'm logged-in in geocaching.com with my account data. I click on the 'Not logged in' you pictured above. And in the opening page I authenticate project-gc to work together with geocaching.com to change data and so on. I go back to the geocaching.com page and the script works and does what it should do. Providing me with everything I have choosen in the menu of the script! The gc.com page is redesigned as the script should do, with all the extra content by project-gc. In the other still open slider/tab I have full access to project-gc with all the tools and statistics and so on. And now the BUT: I still get the picture You show above. Even if i open a further geocaching.com slider/tab it stills says: 'Not logged in'... That interesting anecdote is all I wanted to quote, as a funnyfact. We talk about a script by an developer/project that provides us with the tools and lots more we need to show we fulfilled certain challenges just for gc.com features (I support this with my paid membership on both pages, honouring this outstanding often voluntary work for all of us, those who can't do this). I know it's just a sign/button, nothing more/ nothing less. It's not relevant for the functionality what I can read there, so it seems. The script works therefore on just that homepage, a homepage that relies in some way on the provider of the script by using the checkerconcept by the same provider. If the sign of the script says the opposite of what it is doing, can I assume that there might be a communications problem between script and homepage? And if it is just that it can't get the message through, that it works... And isn't the fact, that there is this minimal communications problem between the two sources in some way funny? Because at the same time i as an owner of a cache have to rely on the results of checkers (provided by many volunteers by the one) using data (provided by the other) to check if a cacher has fulfilled my challenge. Without the checker I'm not allowed to post this challenge. And what if, in this communication between the same two, one of the sources can't get another message through? This was in my mind as I wrote the quote and I found this funny. I hope, I could clarify what I meant, regarding my problems with the foreign language I use in the moment. And at the end, why did I wanted to clarify it. It just should show, when already here could be problems, what other problems could accur, if the appearence of the homepage is changed in short times and somebody has to struggle to get his script or app functionality working again. And that with earning little or nothing for doing so... To get it together. The title of this thread is 'Exit GDAK' and if it became clear or not, i just wanted to post something that shows my hope, that the programmer of the app GDAK would still work further on this app, trying to ignore throwbacks in his work, earning perhaps little to nothing for his doings. Just for the support of the community. And as it seems, he will do! Thank You for that, Wout!

So there are threads about crazy caches you have been to or stuff you found in them....but what about caches you have hid? Which is your favorite? What kind of swag do you put in them? What size is your favorite to hide? What general area are most of you caches in (woods, public, outta the way places, etc..)? Camo Job? Basically just talk about YOUR geocache containers. Even brag a little if you want. We all wanna learn some other cache hiding/creating techniques.