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I didn't mention the application because I am not part of the beta team and have not been given permission to talk about it. I would guess that the beta team users cannot talk about it either. For what it is worth I saw a working model of the Garmin Colorado almost a year before it came out. Didn't talk about that one either.

Even if the person leaving the throwdown intends it as a gift, it's not a gift if the cache owner doesn't accept the gift (and the responsibilities of such a gift). And while some who leave throwdowns certainly intend for them to be gifts, it's not at all clear that everyone has such intents. One could leave an ammo can as a throwdown with the intention of reclaiming it at some future date. They might even list that ammo can on an alternative geocaching site. You ungrateful bastard! If your grandma sends you a sweater you didn't want do you simply ignore it? Maybe you re-gift it. Maybe you put in the donation box. Maybe you even throw it away. But you don't say "Grandma, I don't want this sweater, take it back". ... You don't need to be grateful for the "gift", but you sure as heck own it. If anyone has any unwanted kittens or puppies, then feel free to leave them on Toz's front porch. Fact 1: Any "gift" belongs to the person who is giving the "gift" until acceptance of the gift by a second person. Fact 2: The acceptance of the "gift" must be declared in any way. Like saying "thank you" or any other form. Fact 3: If you refuse the "gift" the person who tried to give you the "gift" is fully responsible for it. No need to talk about cats and dogs, talk about garbage... Garbage belongs to the owner until it is placed in the garbage can outside your home/property (street, curb,...). From that moment on, the garbage belongs to either the municipality or the company that manages garbage because you are saying: "I don´t want this anymore" and the answer is automatic: "Ok, we want it and will take care of it". The company can forbid and sue a person from picking garbage from their garbage can. If you look closely almost all garbage cans say: "Property of...." there is a reason for that! So, if I place my garbage in your house is it yours immediately? Or you have to accept it? Good analogy. A homeowner is responsible for the removal of garbage from his property regardless of how it arrived. Similarly, a cache owner is responsible for any and all garbage that his cache attracted. Wrong!!!! If someone else places the garbage there it is not your responsibility... Imagine that you have cameras recording that clearly show that person throwing the garbage you can sue that person! Let´s install webcams in all the caches!!!!

Even if the person leaving the throwdown intends it as a gift, it's not a gift if the cache owner doesn't accept the gift (and the responsibilities of such a gift). And while some who leave throwdowns certainly intend for them to be gifts, it's not at all clear that everyone has such intents. One could leave an ammo can as a throwdown with the intention of reclaiming it at some future date. They might even list that ammo can on an alternative geocaching site. You ungrateful bastard! If your grandma sends you a sweater you didn't want do you simply ignore it? Maybe you re-gift it. Maybe you put in the donation box. Maybe you even throw it away. But you don't say "Grandma, I don't want this sweater, take it back". ... You don't need to be grateful for the "gift", but you sure as heck own it. If anyone has any unwanted kittens or puppies, then feel free to leave them on Toz's front porch. Fact 1: Any "gift" belongs to the person who is giving the "gift" until acceptance of the gift by a second person. Fact 2: The acceptance of the "gift" must be declared in any way. Like saying "thank you" or any other form. Fact 3: If you refuse the "gift" the person who tried to give you the "gift" is fully responsible for it. No need to talk about cats and dogs, talk about garbage... Garbage belongs to the owner until it is placed in the garbage can outside your home/property (street, curb,...). From that moment on, the garbage belongs to either the municipality or the company that manages garbage because you are saying: "I don´t want this anymore" and the answer is automatic: "Ok, we want it and will take care of it". The company can forbid and sue a person from picking garbage from their garbage can. If you look closely almost all garbage cans say: "Property of...." there is a reason for that! So, if I place my garbage in your house is it yours immediately? Or you have to accept it? Good analogy. A homeowner is responsible for the removal of garbage from his property regardless of how it arrived. Similarly, a cache owner is responsible for any and all garbage that his cache attracted.

Even if the person leaving the throwdown intends it as a gift, it's not a gift if the cache owner doesn't accept the gift (and the responsibilities of such a gift). And while some who leave throwdowns certainly intend for them to be gifts, it's not at all clear that everyone has such intents. One could leave an ammo can as a throwdown with the intention of reclaiming it at some future date. They might even list that ammo can on an alternative geocaching site. You ungrateful bastard! If your grandma sends you a sweater you didn't want do you simply ignore it? Maybe you re-gift it. Maybe you put in the donation box. Maybe you even throw it away. But you don't say "Grandma, I don't want this sweater, take it back". ... You don't need to be grateful for the "gift", but you sure as heck own it. If anyone has any unwanted kittens or puppies, then feel free to leave them on Toz's front porch. Fact 1: Any "gift" belongs to the person who is giving the "gift" until acceptance of the gift by a second person. Fact 2: The acceptance of the "gift" must be declared in any way. Like saying "thank you" or any other form. Fact 3: If you refuse the "gift" the person who tried to give you the "gift" is fully responsible for it. No need to talk about cats and dogs, talk about garbage... Garbage belongs to the owner until it is placed in the garbage can outside your home/property (street, curb,...). From that moment on, the garbage belongs to either the municipality or the company that manages garbage because you are saying: "I don´t want this anymore" and the answer is automatic: "Ok, we want it and will take care of it". The company can forbid and sue a person from picking garbage from their garbage can. If you look closely almost all garbage cans say: "Property of...." there is a reason for that! So, if I place my garbage in your house is it yours immediately? Or you have to accept it?

What if you liked "Send To GPS", but it's gone? There's an interesting thread here on the GSAK forum, about how you may be able to load a GPS that otherwise doesn't accept "GPX" files directly. "GSAK" can talk to many of the old GPSs. Sorry, I don't have a list of them. The process will be something like, click "GPX File", and send that to GSAK, which in turn sends the cache info to the GPS. Looks like it's not "one click", but maybe it will do. Remember that GSAK is full-fledged Geocaching database software, so you could do pretty much everything, more or less without having to visit the web site.

I have only run into LEOs while caching once. Los Angeles County Sheriff. It was in Castiac and at night. They saw my car pulled to the side of the road and me running about with my Surefire light. They said good evening and I responded back kindly in turn. I asked if they had heard of Geocaching and the one officer had. I said that was what I was doing. They seemed convinced and wished me a good night. Now my local law enforcement generally know about it. Being a gun dealer, I also sell them a lot of guns. So even if I ran into a local officer that didn't know me and what I was up to, I have Taft PD and Kern County Sheriff's officers actual cell numbers in my phone. If needed could simply say, "Contact Sgt. Eveland or Senior Deputy Nance and ask them if they know who Wesley Morris is and what is Geocaching." They wouldn't even need to see that I had their cell number. The one thing I would caution everyone else against is ever, ever talking to security guards. Just don't do it. You do not have to talk to the police, but sometimes it won't hurt. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TALK TO SECURITY!!! If a security guard ever asked me what I was doing, I would tell them, "Nothing." If they want to know more, I am not telling them crap. I would simply leave. If a police officer shows up after security calls them, I would cooperate with the police and then just tell the officer straight up, "No way in hell am I answering a security guard's questions. I'll talk to you, but security gets nothing." Probably 9 out of 10 cops would actually respect you more for it and tell you to have a nice night. Security guards, the carnies of the non-circus world!

The maximum distance you can move it on your own is the 0.1 mile/528 feet/161 meter distance mentioned by hzoi. The system will prevent you from moving it farther than that in an "Update coordinates" log. Side note: Don't ever try submitting multiple "Update coordinates" logs in a row to move a cache farther than that, because the reviewers don't like that. Talk to the reviewer to move a cache farther than 0.1 miles/528 feet/161 meters.

That's for the like 100 accounts I have seen over the years with Pirate based usernames, who talk like a Pirate in their cache logs. So apparently in a future release, the app will convert your log to Pirate talk. Which of course is useless, because no one has ever posted a log longer than 3 words via the intro app. What are you talking about? "That's one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache." is 13 words! 14 if you expand the contraction! Heck, even "I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!" is 9 and an acronym! Apparently, the "that's one more find for me" text is long gone, although they've never announced it publicly. Oh Snap! That's gone?? Now no one will understand my signature! Is there still a cut-and-paste log for the intro app? Someone in a thread in Geocaching topics discovered it a couple weeks ago. I don't feel like looking (but maybe I'll post again in a few days), but the last offending "that's one more find for me" log I can remember seeing was around late June.

That's for the like 100 accounts I have seen over the years with Pirate based usernames, who talk like a Pirate in their cache logs. So apparently in a future release, the app will convert your log to Pirate talk. Which of course is useless, because no one has ever posted a log longer than 3 words via the intro app. What are you talking about? "That's one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache." is 13 words! 14 if you expand the contraction! Heck, even "I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!" is 9 and an acronym! Apparently, the "that's one more find for me" text is long gone, although they've never announced it publicly. Oh Snap! That's gone?? Now no one will understand my signature! Is there still a cut-and-paste log for the intro app?

That's for the like 100 accounts I have seen over the years with Pirate based usernames, who talk like a Pirate in their cache logs. So apparently in a future release, the app will convert your log to Pirate talk. Which of course is useless, because no one has ever posted a log longer than 3 words via the intro app. What are you talking about? "That's one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache." is 13 words! 14 if you expand the contraction! Heck, even "I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!" is 9 and an acronym! Apparently, the "that's one more find for me" text is long gone, although they've never announced it publicly.

That's for the like 100 accounts I have seen over the years with Pirate based usernames, who talk like a Pirate in their cache logs. So apparently in a future release, the app will convert your log to Pirate talk. Which of course is useless, because no one has ever posted a log longer than 3 words via the intro app. What are you talking about? "That's one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache." is 13 words! 14 if you expand the contraction! Heck, even "I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!" is 9 and an acronym!

That's for the like 100 accounts I have seen over the years with Pirate based usernames, who talk like a Pirate in their cache logs. So apparently in a future release, the app will convert your log to Pirate talk. Which of course is useless, because no one has ever posted a log longer than 3 words via the intro app.

Lets talk geocaching in Michigan. Stuff you think is cool . Something that happened to you while geocaching ... If your new say hi and we all will try to get to know you. So here we go let's talk Michigan Geocaching.

Talk about being way too prevalent in major cities - just looking at the map of Boston, it's worse than Waymarking McDonalds.

It seems like that one is all messed up. That's all on the TB Owner. It's his prerogative. The Owner gets to make it as weird as he likes. It may not be all that playable nor remain in play that way. But there's no one stopping him. Probably nobody could talk him out of it, either.

Sigh... Earthcaches have no physical logbook or cache container. Apple. "Challenge caches" have a physical logbook and container. Automatic transmission. Traditional, Multi-, Letterbox Hybrid, Mystery/Unknown*, Wherigo caches have a physical logbook and container. Manual transmissions (some 3-on-the-tree, some 4spd overdrive, others 6-speed sequential) *"Challenge caches" are currently held under the Mystery/Unknown subset of physical geocache types. Because of the unique nature of the Groundspeak endorsed and condoned ALR of a "challenge cache", they are more easily categorized as outside of the other physical cache types--which only are guided in logging a "Found it" without deletion by having found the container, and having signed the logbook. You see, why confuse things with the ALR found within the other, more straightforward physical geocache types, when "geocache" types such as Earthcaches with "ALRs" are their own type as well? You're stating a personal preference, outside of the guidelines of the game. You're welcome to do as you say, and not log unless you've solved the puzzle of a puzzle-style Mystery/Unknown, or found every stage of a Multi-cache. But the guidelines and common practice of Groundspeak and Volunteer Reviewers is to allow a "brute force" or "accidental" find of a final for a Multi-cache or puzzle-style Mystery/Unknown to be logged as "Found" if the container was found, and the logbook signed. This is supported by many, many appeals, discussions, and overt guidelines. No matter what you say, it isn't apples to apples. Earthcaches are non-physical geocaches with alternate logging requirements (ALRs). Traditional, Multi, Mystery/Unknown, Wherigo, and Letterbox Hybrids are all physical geocaches--listed (shown) or unlisted (hidden) coordinates with a container and logbook, where one can log a find once the container is found and logbook is signed. "Challenge caches" are an exception to the ALR-ban that happened before you started geocaching. ALRs used to be on all sorts of caches, and they were disallowed from future publication, and existing caches archived by Volunteer Reviewers unless the listing was edited to remove all ALR references. The only surviving version of the ALR was a "challenge" cache, wherein a user was to undertake a specific, positive, location-based, geocaching-related task to receive permission to log the cache online. Also, "Challenges" were created...and failed. They had the fatal flaw of no Review, non-specific (and oftentimes unappreciated) tasks to log them online. They did, at first, count toward your online "Found it" total. Then they were set apart from that geocache find total. Then they were unceremoniously removed from all memory on the website and all player accounts. (I feel like "The Giver" right now...) So, you see, where Groundspeak made a mistake "yesterday", they can make their "better mistake" today by swinging "challenge caches" into Challenge Caches, and removing the qualifying language from the Mystery/Unknown geocache type description and guidelines. Not unlike how Earthcaches are run under their own type because of their geology-specific themes, third-party development and regulation, and ALR online logging processes, "challenge caches" could (and IMO should) be put into a category unto themselves. You see, it all comes back to online logs and the common thread of this "game" we play. If you find a physical container and logbook, and sign that logbook, you should be able to log that cache online. Those cache types where that much isn't common (apples to transmissions), the cache type is apart from the others in icon, description, and guidelines. So now I'll bring it back to this statement. Yes, in the way you describe it, they are apart only in the finite genetics of the apple. Color, aroma, firmness, growth rate, season of flowering, etc all might be different, but at least you know its an apple when you bite into it. But then you must admit that these 2 apples are thereby like comparing apples to the orange that is physical geocaching: Traditional, Multi, Wherigo, Letterbox Hybrid, and even the Mystery/Unknown. All fruits, sure, but the idea that you can log a physical cache you have found and signed the logbook of is where we have a departure from the Mystery/Unknown cache type. But let's revisit this tidbit: Aha. Yes. I'll give you this. (I know you likely meant it as "challenge cache", but you've illustrated my points beautifully. Thank you.) You may not have completed the listed challenge set out in that physical geocache's description, but you can find and log the physical cache and log. This is where an idea of having "challenges" come back as a "virtual" type of cache would work. Not unlike the mistake that was "Challenges", and not unlike the Virtual caches of yore, the new type of "geocaching challenge" would capture your completion of any geocacher-designed geocaching-related challenge (Fizzy challenge, e.g.), and not muddle the water with it being a physical geocache that you're not allowed to "find". Imagine a separate cache type where there is no cache, but there is a challenge to complete. Or imagine a new cache type where there is a physical cache, but you may log that find when you find the container, yet you can also check a box that you have completed the challenge--and that completion is added to your "finds" total, and recorded in stats as a separate type of "find". That first sentence says it all. If the CO wanted people to claim a find just by finding the container he would have made the cache a traditional. Sure, as it stands now, why not say that. But the thing is, regardless of what "the CO wanted", there is a physical geocache that can be found...but not without the owner's permission. Then you add in the inconsistent nature of humanity, where a CO may not actually check the requirements on their challenge cache, but another owner is quite studious. And then you can have instances where the owner doesn't get to checking the completion for days, weeks, or months. As a finder, this creates much consternation in a game that should otherwise be as straight forward as Groundspeak has claimed it to be: Find it, sign it, log it online. That is geocaching at its core. So the "problem" is that these challenges should be apart from Mystery/Unknown caches. Period. Why not? There is no reason why this couldn't be done in a heartbeat with a little lead time to make a new icon and add the code for an additional cache type in the submission forms. (add another blank for the new icon and type selection, and that's about it. The guidelines already exist, and the code can be mirrored from other caches for how it collates in stats and such.) The additional argument that I make (and as much that sets us apart in our opinions) is that challenges should be apart from physical geocaching altogether. So long as there is a physical container and log, it should be loggable regardless of the owner's desire to have a geocache-related challenge of an ALR. If an owner wants to set up a challenge that is based on a positive geocaching accomplishment or difficult set of circumstances, so be it. But if there is a container and a log, it should be loggable online when the logbook is signed. This is fundamental to the game, and the only common core with all physical caches since this game was "invented" by his holiness Dave Ulmer, and adopted by the programming gurus and visionaries at what we now call Groundspeak. Lastly, what you're failing to see in the foundation of my opinion is here: No. They can place a Mystery/Unknown as they did. But the guidelines shouldn't have an asterisk for the Mystery/Unknown type. This is where confusion for newbies comes in; this is where confusion over the foundational principles of the game get muddled; this is where the game should be more clear. Physical geocaches were "invented" for Groundspeak on the basis of the "find it, sign it, log it" mantra. That much should remain true, especially as it was a primary point Groundspeak made when doing away with ALRs. That aspect of the game should be more consistently held by Groundspeak. Otherwise, we're just witnessing their apathy about how they present themselves to members. There would be a whole lot less consternation about Groundspeak, "challenge caches", and other changes made (seemingly willy-nilly) without consistency. If ALRs were done away with because of (among other things) the fact that physical caches should not have restrictions on logging them online once they are found (Premium Member Only caches still loggable by non-members "loophole", e.g.), Groundspeak should remain consistent and remove ALRs altogether from the physical geocache realm. We can still have challenge geocaches, but they shouldn't be lumped in with the other physical geocaches--which Groundspeak once said should be loggable online by all who find the container and sign the log when they did away with ALRs and maintained their opinion about the loophole for non-PMs to log PMO caches, and when they talk about how they developed the Intro App to allow people to access cache listings for free...on and on. You see, they argue for their actions about all physical caches being open to be logged by all when they find it and sign the logbook...except when they talk about this much-loved aspect of the game called "challenge geocaches". You see, I'm all for keeping challenge caches around. I'm just not in the camp that thinks inconsistency is acceptable. I think Groundspeak can easily address this fact, and make all camps happy. I think challenge caches are what that much-maligned mistake "Challenges" should have been all along. I also think that my favorite ALR caches I did back in the day were the ones that are more in line with the current "challenge caches" we have now. (Log only after you've found 100 Mystery/Unknown caches by CharlieWhiskey, e.g.) I think it is time for Groundspeak to acknowledge how the game can be organized as physical geocaches and non-physical geocaches. So long as Earthcaches are around, and the remaining Virtuals are able to stay unarchived, they have an opportunity to grow the game in a direction that makes sense, demonstrates consistency in their decisions and reasons provided for some historic decisions, and only provides more clarity to an already cumbersome game for newbies to get their head around.

Dear Computer experts, I am a geocache user who enjoys walking and finding a cache every now and then, that is my pleasure. I used to press a button and the Garmin 60CSx would know where to take us to. Now I have to do things with files and move them to places I do not understand. Can someone translate all the GPX computer talk to human speech so I can go for my hike? In other words, how can I easily move the waypoints to my GPS?

Depends on your unit. My beeps, but if you have a unit that can talk, City Navagator can talk. AFAIK all handhelds Just beep. The Quest, which is sort of a combo will talk if plugged into the charger/speaker. The car units talk. nRoute (which uses CN) talks. They all use the same CN maps.

Hey, not funny. I am still figuring the website out. If we are able to log in with our Facebook account, then can our Facebook friends view our geocaching activities and stats? I was also wondering if this website has a chatroom. It would be nice to talk to other geocachers.

And you are entitled to it. And entitled to share it. Nobody is wondering if geocaching is a particularly dangerous activity. For that matter neither is eating at a restaurant. Unless you happened to be in Luby's Cafeteria in Waco, TX on October 16, 1991. And going to high school isn't considered particularly dangerous. Except on April 20, 1999 at Columbine High. The fact is bad things happen to good people doing innocent things. Haha. I don't want everybody to carry. I just don't want ANYBODY to second guess or lecture me on my decision for doing so. I think on this point you and most gun owners see eye to eye. I think that means that it shows through your clothing. I kinda guessed that. I wonder why "print"? I would think "fit" I guess I watch too much "How do I look" and not enough "Sons of Guns" on TLC. Nah. The guy on "Sons of Guns" thinks he's the only one smart enough to shoot a gun. He makes some pretty cool stuff but I wouldn't look to him for your normal every day gun owner kind of information. I carry rockets everywhere I go so I can just shoot it back up in a tree. I live in Tennessee so I don't have to worry about printing. Although I CC 99.999999% of the time I don't care if somebody gets a little glimpse. Why would you say that? Did some of the comments cause you to get your underwear in a bunch? I am one that has a problem with this thread. My issue, as I have already stated, is that you guys want to talk about guns, not geocaching. There are forums for talking about guns. I don't go there to talk about geocaching. I do. I often talk about other aspects of my life on gun forums. Guns don't define me and neither does geocaching. At least not by themselves. But together they form pieces of the puzzle that is me. I also play drums but I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't poo poo all over this thread if he asked how many geocachers play drums. Being new here I could be wrong and I would be willing to concede if I am but I have been down this road so many times before that I doubt it. Seriously, if you have that much of a problem with gun owners why would you submit yourself to the torture of reading this thread? We're not going to change. You're not going to change. The only thing accomplished is some people will increase their blood pressure by either championing the anti-gun cause or by championing the pro-gun cause. It's for this same reason I avoid like the plague any religious debates. They never end pretty. Back to the OP: If I'm out of bed and not on my way to or from work, I'm probably carrying. My Kimber Ultra Carry II is my near constant companion. I currently have an OWB leather Don Hume holster but I have a guy making me an IWB holster. I do have to worry about some of the city parks in TN though. Our state legislature allows carry in parks but gives city/county governments the ability to "opt out," creating a very lovely little patchwork of allowed and not allowed areas for you to navigate. So basically you have to know the law about every square inch in the state. Oh, and IBTL too.

There is *no* circumstance in which I would let me kids talk to the police separately in this situation. There is no telling what these cops have been told and whether or not they are on a witch hunt. If you feel you must, at least tell the police you are not going to let them talk to your kid without a video camera recording the whole conversation. I am, in fact, a lawyer and no good can ever come of letting police talk to your kids if the police are suspicious about you. it is most likely the law that you have to let them.. sad but true.. FYI: Alkhalikoi is a police officer.

There is *no* circumstance in which I would let me kids talk to the police separately in this situation. There is no telling what these cops have been told and whether or not they are on a witch hunt. If you feel you must, at least tell the police you are not going to let them talk to your kid without a video camera recording the whole conversation. I am, in fact, a lawyer and no good can ever come of letting police talk to your kids if the police are suspicious about you. it is most likely the law that you have to let them.. sad but true.. No. Absolutely not.

"Ok, so if these people really thought that you were a child molester, the question in my mind is why did they let you out of their sight? Why didn't they come close enough to talk? This would have served two purposes: first, and most importantly, it would prevent you from doing what they suspected you were up to; second, it would allow them to ascertain what you were up to." I've worked in government for many years and if there is one true thing in the world it is that the public would much reather contact some agency and get it to do XYZ than talk to another human. Sometimes that is good, wouldn't want some little old lady going to talk to the local meth cook. Sometimes it is a pain like when you get used as a weapon in a neighborhood spat.

There is *no* circumstance in which I would let me kids talk to the police separately in this situation. There is no telling what these cops have been told and whether or not they are on a witch hunt. If you feel you must, at least tell the police you are not going to let them talk to your kid without a video camera recording the whole conversation. I am, in fact, a lawyer and no good can ever come of letting police talk to your kids if the police are suspicious about you.

this one we don't know yet. Think it through - cause you gotta walk the talk and talk the walk!