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Loves Labours Lost Shakespeare homepage | Love's Labour's Lost | Entire play ACT I SCENE I. The king of Navarre's park. Enter FERDINAND king of Navarre, BIRON, LONGAVILLE and DUMAIN FERDINAND Let fame, that all hunt after in their lives, Live register'd upon our brazen tombs And then grace us in the disgrace of death; When, spite of cormorant devouring Time, The endeavor of this present breath may buy That honour which shall bate his scythe's keen edge And make us heirs of all eternity. Therefore, brave conquerors,--for so you are, That war against your own affections And the huge army of the world's desires,-- Our late edict shall strongly stand in force: Navarre shall be the wonder of the world; Our court shall be a little Academe, Still and contemplative in living art. You three, Biron, Dumain, and Longaville, Have sworn for three years' term to live with me My fellow-scholars, and to keep those statutes That are recorded in this schedule here: Your oaths are pass'd; and now subscribe your names, That his own hand may strike his honour down That violates the smallest branch herein: If you are arm'd to do as sworn to do, Subscribe to your deep oaths, and keep it too. LONGAVILLE I am resolved; 'tis but a three years' fast: The mind shall banquet, though the body pine: Fat paunches have lean pates, and dainty bits Make rich the ribs, but bankrupt quite the wits. DUMAIN My loving lord, Dumain is mortified: The grosser manner of these world's delights He throws upon the gross world's baser slaves: To love, to wealth, to pomp, I pine and die; With all these living in philosophy. BIRON I can but say their protestation over; So much, dear liege, I have already sworn, That is, to live and study here three years. But there are other strict observances; As, not to see a woman in that term, Which I hope well is not enrolled there; And one day in a week to touch no food And but one meal on every day beside, The which I hope is not enrolled there; And then, to sleep but three hours in the night, And not be seen to wink of all the day-- When I was wont to think no harm all night And make a dark night too of half the day-- Which I hope well is not enrolled there: O, these are barren tasks, too hard to keep, Not to see ladies, study, fast, not sleep! FERDINAND Your oath is pass'd to pass away from these. BIRON Let me say no, my liege, an if you please: I only swore to study with your grace And stay here in your court for three years' space. LONGAVILLE You swore to that, Biron, and to the rest. BIRON By yea and nay, sir, then I swore in jest. What is the end of study? let me know. FERDINAND Why, that to know, which else we should not know. BIRON Things hid and barr'd, you mean, from common sense? FERDINAND Ay, that is study's godlike recompense. BIRON Come on, then; I will swear to study so, To know the thing I am forbid to know: As thus,--to study where I well may dine, When I to feast expressly am forbid; Or study where to meet some mistress fine, When mistresses from common sense are hid; Or, having sworn too hard a keeping oath, Study to break it and not break my troth. If study's gain be thus and this be so, Study knows that which yet it doth not know: Swear me to this, and I will ne'er say no. FERDINAND These be the stops that hinder study quite And train our intellects to vain delight. BIRON Why, all delights are vain; but that most vain, Which with pain purchased doth inherit pain: As, painfully to pore upon a book To seek the light of truth; while truth the while Doth falsely blind the eyesight of his look: Light seeking light doth light of light beguile: So, ere you find where light in darkness lies, Your light grows dark by losing of your eyes. Study me how to please the eye indeed By fixing it upon a fairer eye, Who dazzling so, that eye shall be his heed And give him light that it was blinded by. Study is like the heaven's glorious sun That will not be deep-search'd with saucy looks: Small have continual plodders ever won Save base authority from others' books These earthly godfathers of heaven's lights That give a name to every fixed star Have no more profit of their shining nights Than those that walk and wot not what they are. Too much to know is to know nought but fame; And every godfather can give a name. FERDINAND How well he's read, to reason against reading! DUMAIN Proceeded well, to stop all good proceeding! LONGAVILLE He weeds the corn and still lets grow the weeding. BIRON The spring is near when green geese are a-breeding. DUMAIN How follows that? BIRON Fit in his place and time. DUMAIN In reason nothing. BIRON Something then in rhyme. FERDINAND Biron is like an envious sneaping frost, That bites the first-born infants of the spring. BIRON Well, say I am; why should proud summer boast Before the birds have any cause to sing? Why should I joy in any abortive birth? At Christmas I no more desire a rose Than wish a snow in May's new-fangled mirth; But like of each thing that in season grows. So you, to study now it is too late, Climb o'er the house to unlock the little gate. FERDINAND Well, sit you out: go home, Biron: adieu. BIRON No, my good lord; I have sworn to stay with you: And though I have for barbarism spoke more Than for that angel knowledge you can say, Yet confident I'll keep what I have swore And bide the penance of each three years' day. Give me the paper; let me read the same; And to the strict'st decrees I'll write my name. FERDINAND How well this yielding rescues thee from shame! BIRON [Reads] 'Item, That no woman shall come within a mile of my court:' Hath this been proclaimed? LONGAVILLE Four days ago. BIRON Let's see the penalty. Reads 'On pain of losing her tongue.' Who devised this penalty? LONGAVILLE Marry, that did I. BIRON Sweet lord, and why? LONGAVILLE To fright them hence with that dread penalty. BIRON A dangerous law against gentility! Reads 'Item, If any man be seen to talk with a woman within the term of three years, he shall endure such public shame as the rest of the court can possibly devise.' This article, my liege, yourself must break; For well you know here comes in embassy The French king's daughter with yourself to speak-- A maid of grace and complete majesty-- About surrender up of Aquitaine To her decrepit, sick and bedrid father: Therefore this article is made in vain, Or vainly comes the admired princess hither. FERDINAND What say you, lords? Why, this was quite forgot. BIRON So study evermore is overshot: While it doth study to have what it would It doth forget to do the thing it should, And when it hath the thing it hunteth most, 'Tis won as towns with fire, so won, so lost. FERDINAND We must of force dispense with this decree; She must lie here on mere necessity. BIRON Necessity will make us all forsworn Three thousand times within this three years' space; For every man with his affects is born, Not by might master'd but by special grace: If I break faith, this word shall speak for me; I am forsworn on 'mere necessity.' So to the laws at large I write my name: Subscribes And he that breaks them in the least degree Stands in attainder of eternal shame: Suggestions are to other as to me; But I believe, although I seem so loath, I am the last that will last keep his oath. But is there no quick recreation granted? FERDINAND Ay, that there is. Our court, you know, is haunted With a refined traveller of Spain; A man in all the world's new fashion planted, That hath a mint of phrases in his brain; One whom the music of his own vain tongue Doth ravish like enchanting harmony; A man of complements, whom right and wrong Have chose as umpire of their mutiny: This child of fancy, that Armado hight, For interim to our studies shall relate In high-born words the worth of many a knight From tawny Spain lost in the world's debate. How you delight, my lords, I know not, I; But, I protest, I love to hear him lie And I will use him for my minstrelsy. BIRON Armado is a most illustrious wight, A man of fire-new words, fashion's own knight. LONGAVILLE Costard the swain and he shall be our sport; And so to study, three years is but short. Enter DULL with a letter, and COSTARD DULL Which is the duke's own person? BIRON This, fellow: what wouldst? DULL I myself reprehend his own person, for I am his grace's tharborough: but I would see his own person in flesh and blood. BIRON This is he. DULL Signior Arme--Arme--commends you. There's villany abroad: this letter will tell you more. COSTARD Sir, the contempts thereof are as touching me. FERDINAND A letter from the magnificent Armado. BIRON How low soever the matter, I hope in God for high words. LONGAVILLE A high hope for a low heaven: God grant us patience! BIRON To hear? or forbear laughing? LONGAVILLE To hear meekly, sir, and to laugh moderately; or to forbear both. BIRON Well, sir, be it as the style shall give us cause to climb in the merriness. COSTARD The matter is to me, sir, as concerning Jaquenetta. The manner of it is, I was taken with the manner. BIRON In what manner? COSTARD In manner and form following, sir; all those three: I was seen with her in the manor-house, sitting with her upon the form, and taken following her into the park; which, put together, is in manner and form following. Now, sir, for the manner,--it is the manner of a man to speak to a woman: for the form,-- in some form. BIRON For the following, sir? COSTARD As it shall follow in my correction: and God defend the right! FERDINAND Will you hear this letter with attention? BIRON As we would hear an oracle. COSTARD Such is the simplicity of man to hearken after the flesh. FERDINAND [Reads] 'Great deputy, the welkin's vicegerent and sole dominator of Navarre, my soul's earth's god, and body's fostering patron.' COSTARD Not a word of Costard yet. FERDINAND [Reads] 'So it is,'-- COSTARD It may be so: but if he say it is so, he is, in telling true, but so. FERDINAND Peace! COSTARD Be to me and every man that dares not fight! FERDINAND No words! COSTARD Of other men's secrets, I beseech you. FERDINAND [Reads] 'So it is, besieged with sable-coloured melancholy, I did commend the black-oppressing humour to the most wholesome physic of thy health-giving air; and, as I am a gentleman, betook myself to walk. The time when. About the sixth hour; when beasts most graze, birds best peck, and men sit down to that nourishment which is called supper: so much for the time when. Now for the ground which; which, I mean, I walked upon: it is y-cleped thy park. Then for the place where; where, I mean, I did encounter that obscene and preposterous event, that draweth from my snow-white pen the ebon-coloured ink, which here thou viewest, beholdest, surveyest, or seest; but to the place where; it standeth north-north-east and by east from the west corner of thy curious- knotted garden: there did I see that low-spirited swain, that base minnow of thy mirth,'-- COSTARD Me? FERDINAND [Reads] 'that unlettered small-knowing soul,'-- COSTARD Me? FERDINAND [Reads] 'that shallow vassal,'-- COSTARD Still me? FERDINAND [Reads] 'which, as I remember, hight Costard,'-- COSTARD O, me! FERDINAND [Reads] 'sorted and consorted, contrary to thy established proclaimed edict and continent canon, which with,--O, with--but with this I passion to say wherewith,-- COSTARD With a wench. FERDINAND [Reads] 'with a child of our grandmother Eve, a female; or, for thy more sweet understanding, a woman. Him I, as my ever-esteemed duty pricks me on, have sent to thee, to receive the meed of punishment, by thy sweet grace's officer, Anthony Dull; a man of good repute, carriage, bearing, and estimation.' DULL 'Me, an't shall please you; I am Anthony Dull. FERDINAND [Reads] 'For Jaquenetta,--so is the weaker vessel called which I apprehended with the aforesaid swain,--I keep her as a vessel of the law's fury; and shall, at the least of thy sweet notice, bring her to trial. Thine, in all compliments of devoted and heart-burning heat of duty. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO.' BIRON This is not so well as I looked for, but the best that ever I heard. FERDINAND Ay, the best for the worst. But, sirrah, what say you to this? COSTARD Sir, I confess the wench. FERDINAND Did you hear the proclamation? COSTARD I do confess much of the hearing it but little of the marking of it. FERDINAND It was proclaimed a year's imprisonment, to be taken with a wench. COSTARD I was taken with none, sir: I was taken with a damsel. FERDINAND Well, it was proclaimed 'damsel.' COSTARD This was no damsel, neither, sir; she was a virgin. FERDINAND It is so varied, too; for it was proclaimed 'virgin.' COSTARD If it were, I deny her virginity: I was taken with a maid. FERDINAND This maid will not serve your turn, sir. COSTARD This maid will serve my turn, sir. FERDINAND Sir, I will pronounce your sentence: you shall fast a week with bran and water. COSTARD I had rather pray a month with mutton and porridge. FERDINAND And Don Armado shall be your keeper. My Lord Biron, see him deliver'd o'er: And go we, lords, to put in practise that Which each to other hath so strongly sworn. Exeunt FERDINAND, LONGAVILLE, and DUMAIN BIRON I'll lay my head to any good man's hat, These oaths and laws will prove an idle scorn. Sirrah, come on. COSTARD I suffer for the truth, sir; for true it is, I was taken with Jaquenetta, and Jaquenetta is a true girl; and therefore welcome the sour cup of prosperity! Affliction may one day smile again; and till then, sit thee down, sorrow! Exeunt LOVE'S LABOURS LOST SCENE II. The same. Enter DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO and MOTH DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Boy, what sign is it when a man of great spirit grows melancholy? MOTH A great sign, sir, that he will look sad. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Why, sadness is one and the self-same thing, dear imp. MOTH No, no; O Lord, sir, no. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO How canst thou part sadness and melancholy, my tender juvenal? MOTH By a familiar demonstration of the working, my tough senior. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Why tough senior? why tough senior? MOTH Why tender juvenal? why tender juvenal? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I spoke it, tender juvenal, as a congruent epitheton appertaining to thy young days, which we may nominate tender. MOTH And I, tough senior, as an appertinent title to your old time, which we may name tough. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Pretty and apt. MOTH How mean you, sir? I pretty, and my saying apt? or I apt, and my saying pretty? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Thou pretty, because little. MOTH Little pretty, because little. Wherefore apt? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO And therefore apt, because quick. MOTH Speak you this in my praise, master? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO In thy condign praise. MOTH I will praise an eel with the same praise. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO What, that an eel is ingenious? MOTH That an eel is quick. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I do say thou art quick in answers: thou heatest my blood. MOTH I am answered, sir. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I love not to be crossed. MOTH [Aside] He speaks the mere contrary; crosses love not him. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I have promised to study three years with the duke. MOTH You may do it in an hour, sir. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Impossible. MOTH How many is one thrice told? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I am ill at reckoning; it fitteth the spirit of a tapster. MOTH You are a gentleman and a gamester, sir. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I confess both: they are both the varnish of a complete man. MOTH Then, I am sure, you know how much the gross sum of deuce-ace amounts to. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO It doth amount to one more than two. MOTH Which the base vulgar do call three. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO True. MOTH Why, sir, is this such a piece of study? Now here is three studied, ere ye'll thrice wink: and how easy it is to put 'years' to the word 'three,' and study three years in two words, the dancing horse will tell you. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO A most fine figure! MOTH To prove you a cipher. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I will hereupon confess I am in love: and as it is base for a soldier to love, so am I in love with a base wench. If drawing my sword against the humour of affection would deliver me from the reprobate thought of it, I would take Desire prisoner, and ransom him to any French courtier for a new-devised courtesy. I think scorn to sigh: methinks I should outswear Cupid. Comfort, me, boy: what great men have been in love? MOTH Hercules, master. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Most sweet Hercules! More authority, dear boy, name more; and, sweet my child, let them be men of good repute and carriage. MOTH Samson, master: he was a man of good carriage, great carriage, for he carried the town-gates on his back like a porter: and he was in love. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO O well-knit Samson! strong-jointed Samson! I do excel thee in my rapier as much as thou didst me in carrying gates. I am in love too. Who was Samson's love, my dear Moth? MOTH A woman, master. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Of what complexion? MOTH Of all the four, or the three, or the two, or one of the four. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Tell me precisely of what complexion. MOTH Of the sea-water green, sir. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Is that one of the four complexions? MOTH As I have read, sir; and the best of them too. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Green indeed is the colour of lovers; but to have a love of that colour, methinks Samson had small reason for it. He surely affected her for her wit. MOTH It was so, sir; for she had a green wit. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO My love is most immaculate white and red. MOTH Most maculate thoughts, master, are masked under such colours. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Define, define, well-educated infant. MOTH My father's wit and my mother's tongue, assist me! DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Sweet invocation of a child; most pretty and pathetical! MOTH If she be made of white and red, Her faults will ne'er be known, For blushing cheeks by faults are bred And fears by pale white shown: Then if she fear, or be to blame, By this you shall not know, For still her cheeks possess the same Which native she doth owe. A dangerous rhyme, master, against the reason of white and red. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Is there not a ballad, boy, of the King and the Beggar? MOTH The world was very guilty of such a ballad some three ages since: but I think now 'tis not to be found; or, if it were, it would neither serve for the writing nor the tune. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I will have that subject newly writ o'er, that I may example my digression by some mighty precedent. Boy, I do love that country girl that I took in the park with the rational hind Costard: she deserves well. MOTH [Aside] To be whipped; and yet a better love than my master. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Sing, boy; my spirit grows heavy in love. MOTH And that's great marvel, loving a light wench. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I say, sing. MOTH Forbear till this company be past. Enter DULL, COSTARD, and JAQUENETTA DULL Sir, the duke's pleasure is, that you keep Costard safe: and you must suffer him to take no delight nor no penance; but a' must fast three days a week. For this damsel, I must keep her at the park: she is allowed for the day-woman. Fare you well. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I do betray myself with blushing. Maid! JAQUENETTA Man? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I will visit thee at the lodge. JAQUENETTA That's hereby. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I know where it is situate. JAQUENETTA Lord, how wise you are! DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I will tell thee wonders. JAQUENETTA With that face? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I love thee. JAQUENETTA So I heard you say. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO And so, farewell. JAQUENETTA Fair weather after you! DULL Come, Jaquenetta, away! Exeunt DULL and JAQUENETTA DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Villain, thou shalt fast for thy offences ere thou be pardoned. COSTARD Well, sir, I hope, when I do it, I shall do it on a full stomach. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Thou shalt be heavily punished. COSTARD I am more bound to you than your fellows, for they are but lightly rewarded. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Take away this villain; shut him up. MOTH Come, you transgressing slave; away! COSTARD Let me not be pent up, sir: I will fast, being loose. MOTH No, sir; that were fast and loose: thou shalt to prison. COSTARD Well, if ever I do see the merry days of desolation that I have seen, some shall see. MOTH What shall some see? COSTARD Nay, nothing, Master Moth, but what they look upon. It is not for prisoners to be too silent in their words; and therefore I will say nothing: I thank God I have as little patience as another man; and therefore I can be quiet. Exeunt MOTH and COSTARD DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I do affect the very ground, which is base, where her shoe, which is baser, guided by her foot, which is basest, doth tread. I shall be forsworn, which is a great argument of falsehood, if I love. And how can that be true love which is falsely attempted? Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love. Yet was Samson so tempted, and he had an excellent strength; yet was Solomon so seduced, and he had a very good wit. Cupid's butt-shaft is too hard for Hercules' club; and therefore too much odds for a Spaniard's rapier. The first and second cause will not serve my turn; the passado he respects not, the duello he regards not: his disgrace is to be called boy; but his glory is to subdue men. Adieu, valour! rust rapier! be still, drum! for your manager is in love; yea, he loveth. Assist me, some extemporal god of rhyme, for I am sure I shall turn sonnet. Devise, wit; write, pen; for I am for whole volumes in folio. Exit LOVE'S LABOURS LOST ACT II SCENE I. The same. Enter the PRINCESS of France, ROSALINE, MARIA, KATHARINE, BOYET, Lords, and other Attendants BOYET Now, madam, summon up your dearest spirits: Consider who the king your father sends, To whom he sends, and what's his embassy: Yourself, held precious in the world's esteem, To parley with the sole inheritor Of all perfections that a man may owe, Matchless Navarre; the plea of no less weight Than Aquitaine, a dowry for a queen. Be now as prodigal of all dear grace As Nature was in making graces dear When she did starve the general world beside And prodigally gave them all to you. PRINCESS Good Lord Boyet, my beauty, though but mean, Needs not the painted flourish of your praise: Beauty is bought by judgement of the eye, Not utter'd by base sale of chapmen's tongues: I am less proud to hear you tell my worth Than you much willing to be counted wise In spending your wit in the praise of mine. But now to task the tasker: good Boyet, You are not ignorant, all-telling fame Doth noise abroad, Navarre hath made a vow, Till painful study shall outwear three years, No woman may approach his silent court: Therefore to's seemeth it a needful course, Before we enter his forbidden gates, To know his pleasure; and in that behalf, Bold of your worthiness, we single you As our best-moving fair solicitor. Tell him, the daughter of the King of France, On serious business, craving quick dispatch, Importunes personal conference with his grace: Haste, signify so much; while we attend, Like humble-visaged suitors, his high will. BOYET Proud of employment, willingly I go. PRINCESS All pride is willing pride, and yours is so. Exit BOYET Who are the votaries, my loving lords, That are vow-fellows with this virtuous duke? First Lord Lord Longaville is one. PRINCESS Know you the man? MARIA I know him, madam: at a marriage-feast, Between Lord Perigort and the beauteous heir Of Jaques Falconbridge, solemnized In Normandy, saw I this Longaville: A man of sovereign parts he is esteem'd; Well fitted in arts, glorious in arms: Nothing becomes him ill that he would well. The only soil of his fair virtue's gloss, If virtue's gloss will stain with any soil, Is a sharp wit matched with too blunt a will; Whose edge hath power to cut, whose will still wills It should none spare that come within his power. PRINCESS Some merry mocking lord, belike; is't so? MARIA They say so most that most his humours know. PRINCESS Such short-lived wits do wither as they grow. Who are the rest? KATHARINE The young Dumain, a well-accomplished youth, Of all that virtue love for virtue loved: Most power to do most harm, least knowing ill; For he hath wit to make an ill shape good, And shape to win grace though he had no wit. I saw him at the Duke Alencon's once; And much too little of that good I saw Is my report to his great worthiness. ROSALINE Another of these students at that time Was there with him, if I have heard a truth. Biron they call him; but a merrier man, Within the limit of becoming mirth, I never spent an hour's talk withal: His eye begets occasion for his wit; For every object that the one doth catch The other turns to a mirth-moving jest, Which his fair tongue, conceit's expositor, Delivers in such apt and gracious words That aged ears play truant at his tales And younger hearings are quite ravished; So sweet and voluble is his discourse. PRINCESS God bless my ladies! are they all in love, That every one her own hath garnished With such bedecking ornaments of praise? First Lord Here comes Boyet. Re-enter BOYET PRINCESS Now, what admittance, lord? BOYET Navarre had notice of your fair approach; And he and his competitors in oath Were all address'd to meet you, gentle lady, Before I came. Marry, thus much I have learnt: He rather means to lodge you in the field, Like one that comes here to besiege his court, Than seek a dispensation for his oath, To let you enter his unpeopled house. Here comes Navarre. Enter FERDINAND, LONGAVILLE, DUMAIN, BIRON, and Attendants FERDINAND Fair princess, welcome to the court of Navarre. PRINCESS 'Fair' I give you back again; and 'welcome' I have not yet: the roof of this court is too high to be yours; and welcome to the wide fields too base to be mine. FERDINAND You shall be welcome, madam, to my court. PRINCESS I will be welcome, then: conduct me thither. FERDINAND Hear me, dear lady; I have sworn an oath. PRINCESS Our Lady help my lord! he'll be forsworn. FERDINAND Not for the world, fair madam, by my will. PRINCESS Why, will shall break it; will and nothing else. FERDINAND Your ladyship is ignorant what it is. PRINCESS Were my lord so, his ignorance were wise, Where now his knowledge must prove ignorance. I hear your grace hath sworn out house-keeping: Tis deadly sin to keep that oath, my lord, And sin to break it. But pardon me. I am too sudden-bold: To teach a teacher ill beseemeth me. Vouchsafe to read the purpose of my coming, And suddenly resolve me in my suit. FERDINAND Madam, I will, if suddenly I may. PRINCESS You will the sooner, that I were away; For you'll prove perjured if you make me stay. BIRON Did not I dance with you in Brabant once? ROSALINE Did not I dance with you in Brabant once? BIRON I know you did. ROSALINE How needless was it then to ask the question! BIRON You must not be so quick. ROSALINE 'Tis 'long of you that spur me with such questions. BIRON Your wit's too hot, it speeds too fast, 'twill tire. ROSALINE Not till it leave the rider in the mire. BIRON What time o' day? ROSALINE The hour that fools should ask. BIRON Now fair befall your mask! ROSALINE Fair fall the face it covers! BIRON And send you many lovers! ROSALINE Amen, so you be none. BIRON Nay, then will I be gone. FERDINAND Madam, your father here doth intimate The payment of a hundred thousand crowns; Being but the one half of an entire sum Disbursed by my father in his wars. But say that he or we, as neither have, Received that sum, yet there remains unpaid A hundred thousand more; in surety of the which, One part of Aquitaine is bound to us, Although not valued to the money's worth. If then the king your father will restore But that one half which is unsatisfied, We will give up our right in Aquitaine, And hold fair friendship with his majesty. But that, it seems, he little purposeth, For here he doth demand to have repaid A hundred thousand crowns; and not demands, On payment of a hundred thousand crowns, To have his title live in Aquitaine; Which we much rather had depart withal And have the money by our father lent Than Aquitaine so gelded as it is. Dear Princess, were not his requests so far From reason's yielding, your fair self should make A yielding 'gainst some reason in my breast And go well satisfied to France again. PRINCESS You do the king my father too much wrong And wrong the reputation of your name, In so unseeming to confess receipt Of that which hath so faithfully been paid. FERDINAND I do protest I never heard of it; And if you prove it, I'll repay it back Or yield up Aquitaine. PRINCESS We arrest your word. Boyet, you can produce acquittances For such a sum from special officers Of Charles his father. FERDINAND Satisfy me so. BOYET So please your grace, the packet is not come Where that and other specialties are bound: To-morrow you shall have a sight of them. FERDINAND It shall suffice me: at which interview All liberal reason I will yield unto. Meantime receive such welcome at my hand As honour without breach of honour may Make tender of to thy true worthiness: You may not come, fair princess, in my gates; But here without you shall be so received As you shall deem yourself lodged in my heart, Though so denied fair harbour in my house. Your own good thoughts excuse me, and farewell: To-morrow shall we visit you again. PRINCESS Sweet health and fair desires consort your grace! FERDINAND Thy own wish wish I thee in every place! Exit BIRON Lady, I will commend you to mine own heart. ROSALINE Pray you, do my commendations; I would be glad to see it. BIRON I would you heard it groan. ROSALINE Is the fool sick? BIRON Sick at the heart. ROSALINE Alack, let it blood. BIRON Would that do it good? ROSALINE My physic says 'ay.' BIRON Will you prick't with your eye? ROSALINE No point, with my knife. BIRON Now, God save thy life! ROSALINE And yours from long living! BIRON I cannot stay thanksgiving. Retiring DUMAIN Sir, I pray you, a word: what lady is that same? BOYET The heir of Alencon, Katharine her name. DUMAIN A gallant lady. Monsieur, fare you well. Exit LONGAVILLE I beseech you a word: what is she in the white? BOYET A woman sometimes, an you saw her in the light. LONGAVILLE Perchance light in the light. I desire her name. BOYET She hath but one for herself; to desire that were a shame. LONGAVILLE Pray you, sir, whose daughter? BOYET Her mother's, I have heard. LONGAVILLE God's blessing on your beard! BOYET Good sir, be not offended. She is an heir of Falconbridge. LONGAVILLE Nay, my choler is ended. She is a most sweet lady. BOYET Not unlike, sir, that may be. Exit LONGAVILLE BIRON What's her name in the cap? BOYET Rosaline, by good hap. BIRON Is she wedded or no? BOYET To her will, sir, or so. BIRON You are welcome, sir: adieu. BOYET Farewell to me, sir, and welcome to you. Exit BIRON MARIA That last is Biron, the merry madcap lord: Not a word with him but a jest. BOYET And every jest but a word. PRINCESS It was well done of you to take him at his word. BOYET I was as willing to grapple as he was to board. MARIA Two hot sheeps, marry. BOYET And wherefore not ships? No sheep, sweet lamb, unless we feed on your lips. MARIA You sheep, and I pasture: shall that finish the jest? BOYET So you grant pasture for me. Offering to kiss her MARIA Not so, gentle beast: My lips are no common, though several they be. BOYET Belonging to whom? MARIA To my fortunes and me. PRINCESS Good wits will be jangling; but, gentles, agree: This civil war of wits were much better used On Navarre and his book-men; for here 'tis abused. BOYET If my observation, which very seldom lies, By the heart's still rhetoric disclosed with eyes, Deceive me not now, Navarre is infected. PRINCESS With what? BOYET With that which we lovers entitle affected. PRINCESS Your reason? BOYET Why, all his behaviors did make their retire To the court of his eye, peeping thorough desire: His heart, like an agate, with your print impress'd, Proud with his form, in his eye pride express'd: His tongue, all impatient to speak and not see, Did stumble with haste in his eyesight to be; All senses to that sense did make their repair, To feel only looking on fairest of fair: Methought all his senses were lock'd in his eye, As jewels in crystal for some prince to buy; Who, tendering their own worth from where they were glass'd, Did point you to buy them, along as you pass'd: His face's own margent did quote such amazes That all eyes saw his eyes enchanted with gazes. I'll give you Aquitaine and all that is his, An you give him for my sake but one loving kiss. PRINCESS Come to our pavilion: Boyet is disposed. BOYET But to speak that in words which his eye hath disclosed. I only have made a mouth of his eye, By adding a tongue which I know will not lie. ROSALINE Thou art an old love-monger and speakest skilfully. MARIA He is Cupid's grandfather and learns news of him. ROSALINE Then was Venus like her mother, for her father is but grim. BOYET Do you hear, my mad wenches? MARIA No. BOYET What then, do you see? ROSALINE Ay, our way to be gone. BOYET You are too hard for me. Exeunt LOVE'S LABOURS LOST ACT III SCENE I. The same. Enter DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO and MOTH DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Warble, child; make passionate my sense of hearing. MOTH Concolinel. Singing DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Sweet air! Go, tenderness of years; take this key, give enlargement to the swain, bring him festinately hither: I must employ him in a letter to my love. MOTH Master, will you win your love with a French brawl? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO How meanest thou? brawling in French? MOTH No, my complete master: but to jig off a tune at the tongue's end, canary to it with your feet, humour it with turning up your eyelids, sigh a note and sing a note, sometime through the throat, as if you swallowed love with singing love, sometime through the nose, as if you snuffed up love by smelling love; with your hat penthouse-like o'er the shop of your eyes; with your arms crossed on your thin-belly doublet like a rabbit on a spit; or your hands in your pocket like a man after the old painting; and keep not too long in one tune, but a snip and away. These are complements, these are humours; these betray nice wenches, that would be betrayed without these; and make them men of note--do you note me?--that most are affected to these. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO How hast thou purchased this experience? MOTH By my penny of observation. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO But O,--but O,-- MOTH 'The hobby-horse is forgot.' DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Callest thou my love 'hobby-horse'? MOTH No, master; the hobby-horse is but a colt, and your love perhaps a hackney. But have you forgot your love? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Almost I had. MOTH Negligent student! learn her by heart. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO By heart and in heart, boy. MOTH And out of heart, master: all those three I will prove. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO What wilt thou prove? MOTH A man, if I live; and this, by, in, and without, upon the instant: by heart you love her, because your heart cannot come by her; in heart you love her, because your heart is in love with her; and out of heart you love her, being out of heart that you cannot enjoy her. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I am all these three. MOTH And three times as much more, and yet nothing at all. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Fetch hither the swain: he must carry me a letter. MOTH A message well sympathized; a horse to be ambassador for an a**. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Ha, ha! what sayest thou? MOTH Marry, sir, you must send the a** upon the horse, for he is very slow-gaited. But I go. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO The way is but short: away! MOTH As swift as lead, sir. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO The meaning, pretty ingenious? Is not lead a metal heavy, dull, and slow? MOTH Minime, honest master; or rather, master, no. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I say lead is slow. MOTH You are too swift, sir, to say so: Is that lead slow which is fired from a gun? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Sweet smoke of rhetoric! He reputes me a cannon; and the bullet, that's he: I shoot thee at the swain. MOTH Thump then and I flee. Exit DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO A most acute juvenal; voluble and free of grace! By thy favour, sweet welkin, I must sigh in thy face: Most rude melancholy, valour gives thee place. My herald is return'd. Re-enter MOTH with COSTARD MOTH A wonder, master! here's a costard broken in a shin. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Some enigma, some riddle: come, thy l'envoy; begin. COSTARD No enigma, no riddle, no l'envoy; no salve in the mail, sir: O, sir, plantain, a plain plantain! no l'envoy, no l'envoy; no salve, sir, but a plantain! DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO By virtue, thou enforcest laughter; thy silly thought my spleen; the heaving of my lungs provokes me to ridiculous smiling. O, pardon me, my stars! Doth the inconsiderate take salve for l'envoy, and the word l'envoy for a salve? MOTH Do the wise think them other? is not l'envoy a salve? DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO No, page: it is an epilogue or discourse, to make plain Some obscure precedence that hath tofore been sain. I will example it: The fox, the ape, and the humble-bee, Were still at odds, being but three. There's the moral. Now the l'envoy. MOTH I will add the l'envoy. Say the moral again. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO The fox, the ape, and the humble-bee, Were still at odds, being but three. MOTH Until the goose came out of door, And stay'd the odds by adding four. Now will I begin your moral, and do you follow with my l'envoy. The fox, the ape, and the humble-bee, Were still at odds, being but three. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Until the goose came out of door, Staying the odds by adding four. MOTH A good l'envoy, ending in the goose: would you desire more? COSTARD The boy hath sold him a bargain, a goose, that's flat. Sir, your pennyworth is good, an your goose be fat. To sell a bargain well is as cunning as fast and loose: Let me see; a fat l'envoy; ay, that's a fat goose. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Come hither, come hither. How did this argument begin? MOTH By saying that a costard was broken in a shin. Then call'd you for the l'envoy. COSTARD True, and I for a plantain: thus came your argument in; Then the boy's fat l'envoy, the goose that you bought; And he ended the market. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO But tell me; how was there a costard broken in a shin? MOTH I will tell you sensibly. COSTARD Thou hast no feeling of it, Moth: I will speak that l'envoy: I Costard, running out, that was safely within, Fell over the threshold and broke my shin. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO We will talk no more of this matter. COSTARD Till there be more matter in the shin. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO Sirrah Costard, I will enfranchise thee. COSTARD O, marry me to one Frances: I smell some l'envoy, some goose, in this. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO By my sweet soul, I mean setting thee at liberty, enfreedoming thy person; thou wert immured, restrained, captivated, bound. COSTARD True, true; and now you will be my purgation and let me loose. DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO I give thee thy liberty, set thee from durance; and, in lieu thereof, impose on thee nothing but this: bear this significant Giving a letter to the country maid Jaquenetta: there is remuneration; for the best ward of mine honour is rewarding my dependents. Moth, follow. Exit MOTH Like the sequel, I. Signior Costard, adieu. COSTARD My sweet ounce of man's flesh! my incony Jew! Exit MOTH Now will I look to his remuneration. Remuneration! O, that's the Latin word for three farthings: three farthings--remuneration.--'What's the price of this inkle?'--'One penny.'--'No, I'll give you a remuneration:' why, it carries it. Remuneration! why, it is a fairer name than French crown. I will never buy and sell out of this word. Enter BIRON BIRON O, my good knave Costard! exceedingly well met. COSTARD Pray you, sir, how much carnation ribbon may a man buy for a remuneration? BIRON What is a remuneration? COSTARD Marry, sir, halfpenny farthing. BIRON Why, then, three-farthing worth of silk. COSTARD I thank your worship: God be wi' you! BIRON Stay, slave; I must employ thee: As thou wilt win my favour, good my knave, Do one thing for me that I shall entreat. COSTARD When would you have it done, sir? BIRON This afternoon. COSTARD Well, I will do it, sir: fare you well. BIRON Thou knowest not what it is. COSTARD I shall know, sir, when I have done it. BIRON Why, villain, thou must know first. COSTARD I will come to your worship to-morrow morning. BIRON It must be done this afternoon. Hark, slave, it is but this: The princess comes to hunt here in the park, And in her train there is a gentle lady; When tongues speak sweetly, then they name her name, And Rosaline they call her: ask for her; And to her white hand see thou do commend This seal'd-up counsel. There's thy guerdon; go. Giving him a shilling COSTARD Gardon, O sweet gardon! better than remuneration, a'leven-pence farthing better: most sweet gardon! I will do it sir, in print. Gardon! Remuneration! Exit BIRON And I, forsooth, in love! I, that have been love's whip; A very beadle to a humorous sigh; A critic, nay, a night-watch constable; A domineering pedant o'er the boy; Than whom no mortal so magnificent! This whimpled, whining, purblind, wayward boy; This senior-junior, giant-dwarf, Dan Cupid; Regent of love-rhymes, lord of folded arms, The anointed sovereign of sighs and groans, Liege of all loiterers and malcontents, Dread prince of plackets, king of codpieces, Sole imperator and great general Of trotting 'paritors:--O my little heart:-- And I to be a corporal of his field, And wear his colours like a tumbler's hoop! What, I! I love! I sue! I seek a wife! A woman, that is like a German clock, Still a-repairing, ever out of frame, And never going aright, being a watch, But being watch'd that it may still go right! Nay, to be perjured, which is worst of all; And, among three, to love the worst of all; A wightly wanton with a velvet brow, With two pitch-balls stuck in her face for eyes; Ay, and by heaven, one that will do the deed Though Argus were her eunuch and her guard: And I to sigh for her! to watch for her! To pray for her! Go to; it is a plague That Cupid will impose for my neglect Of his almighty dreadful little might. Well, I will love, write, sigh, pray, sue and groan: Some men must love my lady and some Joan. Exit LOVE'S LABOURS LOST ACT IV SCENE I. The same. Enter the PRINCESS, and her train, a Forester, BOYET, ROSALINE, MARIA, and KATHARINE PRINCESS Was that the king, that spurred his horse so hard Against the steep uprising of the hill? BOYET I know not; but I think it was not he. PRINCESS Whoe'er a' was, a' show'd a mounting mind. Well, lords, to-day we shall have our dispatch: On Saturday we will return to France. Then, forester, my friend, where is the bush That we must stand and play the murderer in? Forester Hereby, upon the edge of yonder coppice; A stand where you may make the fairest shoot. PRINCESS I thank my beauty, I am fair that shoot, And thereupon thou speak'st the fairest shoot. Forester Pardon me, madam, for I meant not so. PRINCESS What, what? first praise me and again say no? O short-lived pride! Not fair? alack for woe! Forester Yes, madam, fair. PRINCESS Nay, never paint me now: Where fair is not, praise cannot mend the brow. Here, good my glass, take this for telling true: Fair payment for foul words is more than due. Forester Nothing but fair is that which you inherit. PRINCESS See see, my beauty will be saved by merit! O heresy in fair, fit for these days! A giving hand, though foul, shall have fair praise. But come, the bow: now mercy goes to kill, And shooting well is then accounted ill. Thus will I save my credit in the shoot: Not wounding, pity would not let me do't; If wounding, then it was to show my skill, That more for praise than purpose meant to kill. And out of question so it is sometimes, Glory grows guilty of detested crimes, When, for fame's sake, for praise, an outward part, We bend to that the working of the heart; As I for praise alone now seek to spill The poor deer's blood, that my heart means no ill. BOYET Do not curst wives hold that self-sovereignty Only for praise sake, when they strive to be Lords o'er their lords? PRINCESS Only for praise: and praise we may afford To any lady that subdues a lord. BOYET Here comes a member of the commonwealth. Enter COSTARD COSTARD God dig-you-den all! Pray you, which is the head lady? PRINCESS Thou shalt know her, fellow, by the rest that have no heads. COSTARD Which is the greatest lady, the highest? PRINCESS The thickest and the tallest. COSTARD The thickest and the tallest! it is so; truth is truth. An your waist, mistress, were as slender as my wit, One o' these maids' girdles for your waist should be fit. Are not you the chief woman? you are the thickest here. PRINCESS What's your will, sir? what's your will? COSTARD I have a letter from Monsieur Biron to one Lady Rosaline. PRINCESS O, thy letter, thy letter! he's a good friend of mine: Stand aside, good bearer. Boyet, you can carve; Break up this capon. BOYET I am bound to serve. This letter is mistook, it importeth none here; It is writ to Jaquenetta. PRINCESS We will read it, I swear. Break the neck of the wax, and every one give ear. Reads BOYET 'By heaven, that thou art fair, is most infallible; true, that thou art beauteous; truth itself, that thou art lovely. More fairer than fair, beautiful than beauteous, truer than truth itself, have commiseration on thy heroical vassal! The magnanimous and most illustrate king Cophetua set eye upon the pernicious and indubitate beggar Zenelophon; and he it was that might rightly say, Veni, vidi, vici; which to annothanize in the vulgar,--O base and obscure vulgar!--videlicet, He came, saw, and overcame: he came, one; saw two; overcame, three. Who came? the king: why did he come? to see: why did he see? to overcome: to whom came he? to the beggar: what saw he? the beggar: who overcame he? the beggar. The conclusion is victory: on whose side? the king's. The captive is enriched: on whose side? the beggar's. The catastrophe is a nuptial: on whose side? the king's: no, on both in one, or one in both. I am the king; for so stands the comparison: thou the beggar; for so witnesseth thy lowliness. Shall I command thy love? I may: shall I enforce thy love? I could: shall I entreat thy love? I will. What shalt thou exchange for rags? robes; for tittles? titles; for thyself? me. Thus, expecting thy reply, I profane my lips on thy foot, my eyes on thy picture. and my heart on thy every part. Thine, in the dearest design of industry, DON ADRIANO DE ARMADO.' Thus dost thou hear the Nemean lion roar 'Gainst thee, thou lamb, that standest as his prey. Submissive fall his princely feet before, And he from forage will incline to play: But if thou strive, poor soul, what art thou then? Food for his rage, repasture for his den. PRINCESS What plume of feathers is he that indited this letter? What vane? what weathercock? did you ever hear better? BOYET I am much deceived but I remember the style. PRINCESS Else your memory is bad, going o'er it erewhile. BOYET This Armado is a Spaniard, that keeps here in court; A phantasime, a Monarcho, and one that makes sport To the prince and his bookmates. PRINCESS Thou fellow, a word: Who gave thee this letter? COSTARD I told you; my lord. PRINCESS To whom shouldst thou give it? COSTARD From my lord to my lady. PRINCESS From which lord to which lady? COSTARD From my lord Biron, a good master of mine, To a lady of France that he call'd Rosaline. PRINCESS Thou hast mistaken his letter. Come, lords, away. To ROSALINE Here, sweet, put up this: 'twill be thine another day. Exeunt PRINCESS and train BOYET Who is the suitor? who is the suitor? ROSALINE Shall I teach you to know? BOYET Ay, my continent of beauty. ROSALINE Why, she that bears the bow. Finely put off! BOYET My lady goes to kill horns; but, if thou marry, Hang me by the neck, if horns that year miscarry. Finely put on! ROSALINE Well, then, I am the shooter. BOYET And who is your deer? ROSALINE If we choose by the horns, yourself come not near. Finely put on, indeed! MARIA You still wrangle with her, Boyet, and she strikes at the brow. BOYET But she herself is hit lower: have I hit her now? ROSALINE Shall I come upon thee with an old saying, that was a man when King Pepin of France was a little boy, as touching the hit it? BOYET So I may answer thee with one as old, that was a woman when Queen Guinover of Britain was a little wench, as touching the hit it. ROSALINE Thou canst not hit it, hit it, hit it, Thou canst not hit it, my good man. BOYET An I cannot, cannot, cannot, An I cannot, another can. Exeunt ROSALINE and KATHARINE COSTARD By my troth, most pleasant: how both did fit it! MARIA A mark marvellous well shot, for they both did hit it. BOYET A mark! O, mark but that mark! A mark, says my lady! Let the mark have a prick in't, to mete at, if it may be. MARIA Wide o' the bow hand! i' faith, your hand is out. COSTARD Indeed, a' must shoot nearer, or he'll ne'er hit the clout. BOYET An if my hand be out, then belike your hand is in. COSTARD Then will she get the upshoot by cleaving the pin. MARIA Come, come, you talk greasily; your lips grow foul. COSTARD She's too hard for you at pricks, sir: challenge her to bowl. BOYET I fear too much rubbing. Good night, my good owl. Exeunt BOYET and MARIA COSTARD By my soul, a swain! a most simple clown! Lord, Lord, how the ladies and I have put him down! O' my troth, most sweet jests! most incony vulgar wit! When it comes so smoothly off, so obscenely, as it were, so fit. Armado o' th' one side,--O, a most dainty man! To see him walk before a lady and to bear her fan! To see him kiss his hand! and how most sweetly a' will swear! And his page o' t' other side, that handful of wit! Ah, heavens, it is a most pathetical nit! Sola, sola! Shout within Exit COSTARD, running LOVE'S LABOURS LOST SCENE II. The same. Enter HOLOFERNES, SIR NATHANIEL, and DULL SIR NATHANIEL Very reverend sport, truly; and done in the testimony of a good conscience. HOLOFERNES The deer was, as you know, sanguis, in blood; ripe as the pomewater, who now hangeth like a jewel in the ear of caelo, the sky, the welkin, the heaven; and anon falleth like a crab on the face of terra, the soil, the land, the earth. SIR NATHANIEL Truly, Master Holofernes, the epithets are sweetly varied, like a scholar at the least: but, sir, I assure ye, it was a buck of the first head. HOLOFERNES Sir Nathaniel, haud credo. DULL 'Twas not a haud credo; 'twas a pricket. HOLOFERNES Most barbarous intimation! yet a kind of insinuation, as it were, in via, in way, of explication; facere, as it were, replication, or rather, ostentare, to show, as it were, his inclination, after his undressed, unpolished, uneducated, unpruned, untrained, or rather, unlettered, or ratherest, unconfirmed fashion, to insert again my haud credo for a deer. DULL I said the deer was not a haud credo; twas a pricket. HOLOFERNES Twice-sod simplicity, his coctus! O thou monster Ignorance, how deformed dost thou look! SIR NATHANIEL Sir, he hath never fed of the dainties that are bred in a book; he hath not eat paper, as it were; he hath not drunk ink: his intellect is not replenished; he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts: And such barren plants are set before us, that we thankful should be, Which we of taste and feeling are, for those parts that do fructify in us more than he. For as it would ill become me to be vain, indiscreet, or a fool, So were there a patch set on learning, to see him in a school: But omne bene, say I; being of an old father's mind, Many can brook the weather that love not the wind. DULL You two are book-men: can you tell me by your wit What was a month old at Cain's birth, that's not five weeks old as yet? HOLOFERNES Dictynna, goodman Dull; Dictynna, goodman Dull. DULL What is Dictynna? SIR NATHANIEL A title to Phoebe, to Luna, to the moon. HOLOFERNES The moon was a month old when Adam was no more, And raught not

I honestly can't remember what started me geocaching. Apparently I created my account in 2010, but I have no memory of how I heard of it or even of coming to the site. I think eventually in 2012 I was on the Google Play store and the c:geo app showed up as a recommendation. Now, I know I'm not supposed to talk about that, but in all fairness, it's THAT app that got me into geocaching. So I was on a lunch break, sitting in a Chipotle and I downloaded the app, figured out how to log in to the account I'd created...and when I opened it up I saw that there was a marker pointing to a spot only about 200 from where I was sitting right then. When I finished my lunch, I walked over and looked around for a bit and actually managed to find a very well concealed cache. That hooked me.

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2019/01/one-map-endless-inspiration/ Dear Groundspeak, This must be the worst sentence I have read in a very long while. Everyone I talk to fears losing the old map, and many of us depend on that map to plan our geocaching outings. It's fast. It's (almost) dependable. It shows way more than 1000 caches. It works with several different map tiles. This has nothing to do with not liking change. This has to do with not wanting to lose one of the best features of geocaching.com. The new map is great for mapping PQs, searches and lists. But it's nowhere near being able to replace the old map. Please don't take away the most valuable feature you have.

I'm going to sound like an old fogy driving a Model T here, but I like the old style of geocaching better than the way it is now. When I started in 2002 there was no such thing as a smart phone, a nano cache, or GoogleEarth. GPS units like my original yellow eTrex often had little or no satellite reception and normally had only 50 - 100 feet of accuracy. Geocaches were almost always nice large ammo boxes or similar hiding styles in the remote woods or other non-urban areas. They almost always contained logbooks (not log sheets) and people wrote interesting notes in them. Many had those disposable cameras in them and finders would take a "selfie" (although that word wasn't invented then) and when the camera was full the CO would retrieve it, get the film developed, and post the pictures. FTF prizes were often good swag, like T-shirts or $10 bills. There was something fun to read in the log book at the site. Going geocaching was an excursion that took planning. You had to look at printed maps or download USGS photos of the area to figure out a good route. You needed to write down, print out, or memorize the cache information and maybe draw yourself a map or load various guide waypoints into your GPSr to tell you the route and the critical turns. When you got to the cache, it was often hard to find because the coordinates were so dicey and your accuracy bad, too, but the cache rarely had hard camo on it. The challenge was in the planning, navigation, and physical effort to get there. When you found it, you felt like you accomplished something, and the number of geocachers was small due to the effort involved. You felt like you were part of an exclusive group of similarly accomplished people. You wrote a nice long, good log. I knew most of the regular geocachers within 50 miles and made many friends or at events, many of whom are still good friends. You often met other geocachers at a cache because the placing of a new cache was a big event that drew many of the local cachers for the FTF. Nowadays it seems everyone expects all the information on a cache to be at their fingertips on their smart phone. If they have trouble finding a cache, they call for a lifeline. Most hides are urban and contain nothing more than a log sheet, or occasionally some geo-trash trinkets for the kiddies. People log TFTC from their phones and that's it. Hiding a cache brings little or no benefit to the CO. The caches are usually bison tubes in a bush, a magnet under a lamp post skirt, nanos, or something equally uninteresting. If they're challenging it's just because of good camo that serves no purpose other than to make it hard, unpleasant, and frustrating to look for. I never meet other cachers at the cache sites now. There are just too many caches out there. When I go to events most other cachers have not found the same caches I have so we have little in common to talk about. Even when we have found some of the same, the caches are so unmemorable that they don't even recall them - they all blend together. Too many just talk about numbers and powertrails. Their hardware and software is so different from mine it feels like they have an entirely different hobby. There are still ammo cans out in the woods to find, but it just isn't the same kind of accomplishment. It's sort of like a mountain climber who struggles up a high peak for the view only to find a parking lot full of luxury SUVs there. Why bother to climb? By becoming so accessible, geocaching has become less rewarding. So there's my take. Let's hear some other views.

HQ can’t stop the User from logging your Listing(s) per se, but they can have a talk with them, and take the opportunity to refresh their memory on the Terms of Use that they agreed to when they established their account. Depending on how the conversation goes, more drastic measures can be put to use. Assuming they have have some sort of proof, HQ also has the ability to reinstate their log entry and lock it from further deletion.

At first thought, you would think there shouldn't be a problem with geocaching in "public" parks. After all, they're areas that set up to provide recreational opportunities for the general public and are usually supported by that public's tax dollars. It almost seems as though we shouldn't even have to ask for permission. What happens sometimes is that there is a cache placed and then follow up caches are placed with the notion that the first was probably placed with permission and that any newer ones should be fine. You did do the right thing by asking for permission. I myself would go downtown and talk to someone in person about it. It's just easier for me to go in person and talk about what geocaching is and is not. I've had great luck doing this with almost all our placements.

No, i was beginning to think that existing saved tracks could not be reloaded as i could not find a way to do this either looking through the manual or going through the menus on the unit. But i think i got it figured out after i learned how to talk to the menus. HIGHLIGHT SAVED TRACK/ENTER... HIGHLIGHT OK/ENTER.

It would be an interesting twist to a multi if you could use existing caches though. Talk about potential confusion! I agree with the thoughts regarding the listing as a ? cache, based on what the OP has offered up as their potential plan.

Caches get placed inside and outside businesses at times. The key is to talk to your reviewer. Explain your intent and the situation with the business. The reviewer may even want to contact said business. Most reviewers will work with you to make sure what you intend to do will fall within the guidelines. Personally I don't like going into anything other than a library to find a geocache. Have had some negative experiences before, but also some good ones. Talk to your reviewer, and good luck.

For first time geocachers, it's enough to show them the beginning of a geocache listing. You can talk about the difficulty, terrain, and size ratings. Pass around a few containers as examples of different sizes. Talk about the fact that there are different cache types, recommend that they stick with traditional caches at first (the container is at the given coordinates), but briefly describe other types (multi-caches, puzzle caches, events). That should be plenty for first time geocachers. Maybe show how to find the Play > Find Trackables page when you're discussing geocoins and travel bugs, but you really don't need to go into all the details about how the site works, about searches and pocket queries and everything else. Spend time outdoors, somewhere near your classroom, where you've hidden a bunch of geocache containers. Let them get a taste for geocaching by taking turns spotting the hidden containers. There's no need to teach them about GPS yet: just take them to the location you've chosen and let them look for the hidden containers. Even on the longer classes where we give students pre-programmed GPS receivers and spend a couple hours finding actual geocaches, we don't spend any more time explaining the web site than that.

Yes, it has been quiet. I can only speak for myself, but I think the sentiment is close to the same. Groundspeak speaks like they're eager to recognize the project, but their actions say the opposite. As far as I can tell, geocaches mentioning any of our work aren't supposed to be published. Over the years, I have gotten a few draft partnership agreements. The last few took nine months of waiting before getting some minor word changes. I finally wondered if Groundspeak even cared, so I went silent for more than a year to see if anyone would contact me. Nope. They do talk like they're excited to do something, but the action feels like one of apathy. So for me personally, I'm just exhausted. It has taken about a decade for my self-generated drive and energy to thin out. Short of a group of people miraculously appearing and supporting me, egging me on, I imagine it'll take a couple years for me to replenish all that motivation. Apathy does tend to be destructive towards your volunteer base. So, why do I care so much about Groundspeak's involvement? It's like this: the builders and players we have are the main things keeping Wherigo afloat. Pretty great, right? But those who want to thank you in their cache listings can't because the company your work is benefiting doesn't want your work to be mentioned. So is what you've done welcome or not? Should you continue putting effort into it? Why help when you don't know if it's appreciated? And you really want to innovate, but you can't because the site that lists the cartridges won't be able to compile any of the new things you want to add. You'd really need to control the compiler on the listing site in order to do anything fun, hence the Wherigo Foundation's listing service. So the Wherigo Foundation site was created so we can have our own compiler so we have the ability to innovate. However, the site would need to become the de facto listing service so the new stuff can compile. And that's where the wall was hit. The reviewer rule as stated to me is caches aren't going to be published if they're listed on anything but the official listing service. If it doesn't look like Groundspeak is going to allow it, how can you justify spending a lot of time working on something that might not see the light of day? I've considered making major updates to the Wherigo Foundation site and Kit, but that's going to take several hundred hours of my life (the site, API, Invaders, spec improvements, streaming service, multiplayer, owner HUD: the project would take several years of my time when what we need would be a team of people, plus an eager community to keep everyone's motivation high). For the Wherigo Foundation site, that just feels like a losing gamble, creating something that can't be used. I've considered giving it one last hurrah, with the intent of a hostile takeover. But if Groundspeak could legally force me to take down something I create (or have their reviewers refuse to publish caches), and if I manage to create something people would want to use regardless of that, I fear that situation might cause the destruction of the very thing I meant to save. Or perhaps I'm just overstating everyone's importance and Wherigo would have gone along all right without us. You never can tell.

Hello all, Success! I have come up with 2 methods to load individual caches onto older Garmin GPS's Note: I have edited Method 2 since my original post after JimJinks pointed me to a utility that will convert a batch file to an executable .exe file. I left a posting on the original Release Notes thread a while ago where I explained how this change affected my parents and their ability to selectively load caches in their older GPSMap 60 series GPS s. The post is here: Over the last few months I have been loading their GPS s with GSAK for them but I have been meaning to get back to this issue to see if there was a solution that would allow them to regain the ability to load a cache, one at a time. This weekend I knuckled down and came up with two methods depending on your version of Windows. Method 1 with EasyGPS you can do it in 5 clicks per cache Method 2 and GPSBabel (using a slight variation of above technique) you can load a cache in 2 clicks! I use Windows 10 at home and worked out the first system but could only get it down to 5 mouse clicks. I went to my parents who use Windows 7 but could not get the first method to work on their machine. I tried variations of the batch file technique from @JimJinks and got it to work and it is more streamlined than any version I have seen so far. Method 1, Windows 7, 8, or 10 and EasyGPS program Do once to set it up: Install the Free version of EasyGPS. Download it here https://www.easygps.com/download.asp Run the downloaded installer program to install the application. Follow the prompts and use the default location for installation. Run the EasyGPS program and under the "Edit" window choose "Preferences" and Add your GPS Make and model so it knows how to talk to it. This will also associate GPX files with the EasyGPS program To load caches with the GPS connected and turned on : On the cache page click on “Download GPX” near the top of the page below the coordinates, or from the pop up window on the map page when you click on a cache. Make sure “Open with” is selected and EasyGPS is next to it. Click on “OK” When the EasyGPS program opens: Click “Send” button near the top of window Click "OK" on Send to GPS popup window Click the “X” in the top Right corner of the EasyGPS window to close it. Go to the next cache and repeat Method 2, Windows 7, 8, or 10 and GPSBabel program. Do once to set it up. It seems like a lot but it is a detailed step by step and only needs to be done once: Install free GPSbabel program. Download it from here: https://www.gpsbabel.org/download.html Run the downloaded installer program to install the application. Follow the prompts and use the default location for installation. Create a batch file in a folder on your computer. Here is the step by step: Note a click on something uses the normal Left button on the mouse and Right click uses the other button on the right side, that you usually don't use. I have put a copy of this batch file on my Google drive and the link below will allow you to download it. You can preview it to see what it contains. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_unRSYD9cDiOSxSQbBCqM5Pux63mzNBY/view?usp=sharing The above section with the line through it will only work on Windows 7. A better solution now is this next section which will work with all versions of Windows. I created a tiny program called SendToGarmin.exe which replicates the actions of the batch file JimJinks created. You can actually put it anywhere on your hard drive. My instructions below specify a new folder step by step. Feel free to put it somewhere else if you are comfortable with Windows. Here is a link to it. https://drive.google.com/file/d/19xkd_wXWTD7F59XFF9C7lVwucF4ZF8-h/view?usp=sharing Right click on the line above and select "Open in new tab" on the popup window. Go to that tab and choose "Download" to save it to your computer. When prompted click on "Save File" In the new window where it prompts you where to put it, scroll up or down on the left pane of the window to find your the "C Drive" and select it by clicking on it. Click on the "New folder" button near the top of the window. Type LoadGPS to name it and press the Enter key to name it. Double click in this new LoadGPS folder to open it. Click the "Save" button to save it there. This is what is in the batch file / executable: If you or someone you know wants to, you can create your own batch file by copying these commands into a text file and renaming it to a bat file. It is essentially the same as the command in the top post except I removed the quotes around %1 in the first line and added a second line to delete the downloaded GPX file after it gets sent to your GPS. "c:\Program Files (x86)\GPSBabel\gpsbabel.exe" -i gpx -f %1 -o garmin -F usb: del %1 Setup continued... Click on the windows icon on the bottom Left corner of your monitor and type "internet" on the keyboard. It will pull up a list of programs and commands that start with Internet. Click on "Internet Options" under the heading Control Panel Click on the "Programs" Tab Click on the "Set Programs" button Click on the line "Associate a File Type or Protocol with a Program" Scroll down the list until your see ".gpx" on the left and click on that line to select it Click on the button on the top right called "Change Program" Click on the "Browse..." button to bring up a selection window In the box near the bottom next to File name type in C:/LoadGPS/Sendtogarmin.bat Or alternatively you can navigate to this file using the folder and file lists windows Click on the "Open" button to set the batch file as the program associated with gpx files Close the windows to get back to the desktop. You are done the one time setup! To load caches with the GPS connected and turned on : On the cache page click on “Download GPX” near the top of the page below the coordinates, or from the pop up window on the map page when you click on a cache A small window will appear at the bottom of the screen prompting you to open the gpx file. Click "Open" The file is converted and sent to the GPS by GPSBabel. That's it. 2 clicks! Method 1 is an easier setup but more steps to load each cache. Method 2 it is more complicated to set up but it is as easy to load as it was before. The only thing keeping Windows 10 from being able to use the second method is that you can not associate a file type to a batch file, as far as I can tell. Only .com and .exe files. If someone can find a way it would allow you to use the second method. We have to use a batch file to allow us to pass command line arguments to GPSBabel. I tried to use a shortcut to the program and add the arguments to it's properties but that did not work. Fixed now that I created an exe file. The first method would work better if repeated downloads of .gpx files would load into an already open instance of EasyGPS. You could download a bunch and send them all to the GPS at once. Unfortunately each time you download a .gpx it opens a new copy of EasyGPS with that single cache in it. You have to send the cache to the GPS and close each window. If anyone finds a better method or a tweak for one of these please let me know or comment in this thread. If you need more details for some of these steps, I or others on the forums will be glad to help. Thanks @JimJinksfor the batch file. My Mother is very happy that she has the ability to load caches again like she used to. Lee Go Play Outside

Hello all, Success! I have come up with 2 methods to load individual caches onto older Garmin GPS's Note I have edited Method 2 since my original post after JimJinks pointed me to a utility that will convert a batch file to an executable .exe file. I left a posting on the original Release Notes thread a while ago where I explained how this change affected my parents and their ability to selectively load caches in their older GPSMap 60 series GPS s. The post is here: Over the last few months I have been loading their GPS s with GSAK for them but I have been meaning to get back to this issue to see if there was a solution that would allow them to regain the ability to load a cache, one at a time. This weekend I knuckled down and came up with two methods depending on your version of Windows. Method 1 with EasyGPS you can do it in 5 clicks per cache Method 2 and GPSBabel (using a slight variation of above technique) you can load a cache in 2 clicks! I use Windows 10 at home and worked out the first system but could only get it down to 5 mouse clicks. I went to my parents who use Windows 7 but could not get the first method to work on their machine. I tried variations of the batch file technique from @JimJinks as posted by @kunarion above and got it to work and it is more streamlined than any version I have seen so far. Method 1, Windows 7, 8 or, 10 and EasyGPS program Do once to set it up: Install the Free version of EasyGPS. Download it here https://www.easygps.com/download.asp Run the downloaded installer program to install the application. Follow the prompts and use the default location for installation. Run the EasyGPS program and under the "Edit" window choose "Preferences" and Add your GPS Make and model so it knows how to talk to it. This will also associate GPX files with the EasyGPS program To load caches with the GPS connected and turned on : On the cache page click on “Download GPX” near the top of the page below the coordinates, or from the pop up window on the map page when you click on a cache. Make sure “Open with” is selected and EasyGPS is next to it. Click on “OK” When the EasyGPS program opens: Click “Send” button near the top of window Click "OK" on Send to GPS popup window Click the “X” in the top Right corner of the EasyGPS window to close it. Go to the next cache and repeat Method 2, Windows 7, 8, or 10 and GPSBabel program. Do once to set it up. It seems like a lot but it is a detailed step by step and only needs to be done once: Install free GPSbabel program. Download it from here: https://www.gpsbabel.org/download.html Run the downloaded installer program to install the application. Follow the prompts and use the default location for installation. Create a batch file in a folder on your computer. Here is the step by step: Note a click on something uses the normal Left button on the mouse and Right click uses the other button on the right side, that you usually don't use. I have put a copy of this batch file on my Google drive and the link below will allow you to download it. You can preview it to see what it contains. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_unRSYD9cDiOSxSQbBCqM5Pux63mzNBY/view?usp=sharing The above section with the line through it will only work on Windows 7. A better solution now is this next section which will work with all versions of Windows. I created a tiny program called SendToGarmin.exe which replicates the actions of the batch file JimJinks created. You can actually put it anywhere on your hard drive. My instructions below specify a new folder step by step. Feel free to put it somewhere else if you are comfortable with Windows. Here is a link to it. https://drive.google.com/file/d/19xkd_wXWTD7F59XFF9C7lVwucF4ZF8-h/view?usp=sharing Right click on the line above and select "Open in new tab" on the popup window. Go to that tab and choose "Download" to save it to your computer. When prompted click on "Save File" In the new window where it prompts you where to put it, scroll up or down on the left pane of the window to find your the "C Drive" and select it by clicking on it. Click on the "New folder" button near the top of the window. Type LoadGPS to name it and press the Enter key to name it. Double click in this new LoadGPS folder to open it. Click the "Save" button to save it there. This is what is in the batch file: If you or someone you know wants to, you can create your own batch file by copying these commands into a text file and renaming it to a bat file. It is essentially the same as the command in the top post except I removed the quotes around %1 in the first line and added a second line to delete the downloaded GPX file after it gets sent to your GPS. "c:\Program Files (x86)\GPSBabel\gpsbabel.exe" -i gpx -f %1 -o garmin -F usb: del %1 Click on the windows icon on the bottom Left corner of your monitor and type "internet" on the keyboard. It will pull up a list of programs and commands that start with Internet. Click on "Internet Options" under the heading Control Panel Click on the "Programs" Tab Click on the "Set Programs" button Click on the line "Associate a File Type or Protocol with a Program" Scroll down the list until your see ".gpx" on the left and click on that line to select it Click on the button on the top right called "Change Program" Click on the "Browse..." button to bring up a selection window In the box near the bottom next to File name type in C:/LoadGPS/Sendtogarmin.bat Or alternatively you can navigate to this file using the folder and file lists windows Click on the "Open" button to set the batch file as the program associated with gpx files Close the windows to get back to the desktop. You are done the one time setup! To load caches with the GPS connected and turned on : On the cache page click on “Download GPX” near the top of the page below the coordinates, or from the pop up window on the map page when you click on a cache A small window will appear at the bottom of the screen prompting you to open the gpx file. Click "Open" The file is converted and sent to the GPS by GPSBabel. That's it. 2 clicks! Method 1 is an easier setup but more steps to load each cache. Method 2 it is more complicated to set up but it is as easy to load as it was before. The only thing keeping Windows 10 from being able to use the second method is that you can not associate a file type to a batch file, as far as I can tell. Only .com and .exe files. If someone can find a way it would allow you to use the second method. We have to use a batch file to allow us to pass command line arguments to GPSBabel. I tried to use a shortcut to the program and add the arguments to it's properties but that did not work. Fixed now that I created an exe file. The first method would work better if repeated downloads of .gpx files would load into an already open instance of EasyGPS. You could download a bunch and send them all to the GPS at once. Unfortunately each time you download a .gpx it opens a new copy of EasyGPS with that single cache in it. You have to send the cache to the GPS and close each window. If anyone finds a better method or a tweak for one of these please let me know or comment in this thread. If you need more details for some of these steps I or others on the forums will be glad to help. Thanks @JimJinksfor the batch file and @kunarion for starting this thread, contributing to the other ones and working toward a solution. My Mother is very happy that she has the ability to load caches again like she used to. Lee Go Play Outside

hey how you know that laug... that laugurage siund like from deaf sign . it really perfect and make me laugh..... "TALK-TALK-TALK! NO SOUND FROM MOUTH! ACTION BETTER THAN TALK-TALK!"

When I first started caching, I did not make myself really familiar with the rules before starting out. I thought the talk of buried treasures would be fun and exciting, boy was I wrong. Get to my very first GZ, could not find anything, so back to the truck, grab my shovel and I start digging (not knowing any better) Ended up digging up human remains... Called police..bla..bla..bla... Long story short, I did DNF the cache and I'm no longer allowed back at that cemetery. LOL

In the example above, you can avoid the upside-down labels by choosing to stay with north-up display. (It's not landscape that triggers that.) Not perfect, but I live with it. On a tablet, you'll see much more map, and the clutter around the screen edges becomes much less noticeable. Oh, and the navigation will talk to you, and even work on trails.

Welcome to the game! You can start by emailing your local Reviewer to introduce yourself, and let them know about your plans for a hide. The local Reviewer should know the local policies for cache placements in your area, and can guide you on who to contact. It looks like your local Reviewer might be Mongo? For a city park, I'd recommend calling the city clerk to ask who you should talk to. It might be someone with a title like "Parks and Recreation Director" or something similar. That's who would have to give permission, if not someone higher up. Best bet is to start with the Reviewer, but you should also check with the city to know who to talk to for certain. I wouldn't worry about having a cache page written up at the time of discussion. You're only asking about permission, so the first question to ask is if they've heard of Geocaching. If the answer is no, then you should start with directing them toward the website (geocaching.com) and the Land Manager information (geocaching.com/parksandpolice/). If the answer is "yes", then you can proceed with the discussion about what you're planning on doing. For a museum cache, you're looking at some grey area between the black and white. In that case, I'd be sure to work with your Reviewer to see if it is allowed, how to make it work, and how to go about getting the required permission to hide a cache in that manner.

Yes. Nice that the person joined just to tell you they "found" it . Did you actually talk to them, or are you simply relying on their log ? Curious, as "I found this by mistake but I’ll re hide with goodies inside I work for Durham county council and found whilst working today I’ll log it so it can be found again " sounds (to me) that maybe they may not really understand the hobby. - "Logging it" not what enables it to be found again, and instead needs to be returned to that same spot.

My first thought is it sounds like a training issue. If the Land Manager doesn't have the time or inclination to properly train their seasonal staff on their responsibilities, then maybe the seasonal workers shouldn't be put in a situation where this sort of thing might happen. The alternative is to have a clear policy on geocaching posted on the website for the area, or in public areas. Doesn't leave much room for guessing if there's adequate communication. For Federal agencies (as far as I can tell), there is really nothing to "train" on for geocaching. Other than at specific stations (offices, parks, refuges, etc.), there isn't any talk at the top about geocaching as a priority, so it isn't a "training issue" at all. It all depends on how it is presented to the person they are talking to. How is the cacher presenting their case to the person they are talking to? Are they being forthright and clear about what they are asking? Are they casually leaving out details about what geocaching is? You see, it is all about how it is presented for how someone will respond. Generally people have not asked at all at my specific station if they can hide caches--they've just assumed they can because it is "public land". However, I then had to go back and sweep up caches published on Refuge lands across Alaska with the help of our current, local Reviewer. Now the Reviewer knows exactly what needs to be in place for permission at USFWS lands in Alaska (and elsewhere in the country), and also has access to the most current overlays of federal properties including USFWS Refuges. Does every Reviewer have that information? No. Should they? Yes! Groundspeak should really work with Reviewers to be sure that those Reviewers have the tools they need to make a decision about geocaching on certain lands. The assumption all too often becomes, "If I don't know about a policy, there must be no reason stopping a cache publication...", when in fact the opposite is true. And I'll admit that it is very confusing to know which USFWS Refuges allow geocaches and which do not. Some do! (But they have geocaching addressed in their Refuge CCP as a compatible use, and also likely have a local Friends group, staff member(s), or other volunteers who help monitor and maintain the listings...) The bottom line is that Reviewers have a lot to pay attention to, and they really need to know--specifically for USFWS and other DOI agencies--who "permission" must be granted by for a geocache placement. Local geocaching organizations can also be proactive by approaching their local USFWS Refuges and asking about a Special Use Permit, or if Geocaching could be found as a compatible use under the CCP for that specific station. The Refuge Manager or Project Lead for that station makes that call about whether or not a geocache or geocache event is something that can happen there. The overall stance on geocaching for the USFWS is that it is not a compatible use: But, do Reviewers ask geocachers for the Special Use Permit from the Refuge if that cacher says, "I have permission from the Refuge to place this geocache"? I'd guess that most do not. That geocacher could have received "permission" from someone who is not at all aware of the CFR, CCP, or other issues regarding geocache placement. The person geocachers must talk to is the Refuge Manager, but I'll guess that the Reviewer isn't going to know or check most of the time when they are told via a cache submission that the cache placer "has permission". This goes the same for HOAs, city, county, borough, regional, state, and other federal land managers. Do geocachers know who to ask for permission on the ladder for each land manager? Likely not. Do Reviewers? Likely not. But this doesn't change the fact that we play a really abstract, covert, small-potatoes game that really doesn't register as a priority for most land managers until they realize there is a trespass or property damage issue. And, as geocachers, we shouldn't ever think that we can place a cache somewhere and let it go "until there's an issue". That's backwards. And wrong. And in most cases illegal. Sorry, but not buying into the argument that failed training of policies relevant to performing ones job is not the issue here, and that under some perverse leap of logic that Reviewers and Grounspeak are somehow to blame. Truly unbelievable! To blame? Not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that we are playing a game that is not even on 99% of Refuge Manager's radars. To them it is a new issue which isn't even a consideration for a compatible activity or use for the lands they manage. To that end, without we the players of our obscure game taking the time to be thorough and working to obtain proper, elevated permissions, we're set up for failure. It isn't in the job description of the visitor center docent or seasonal Park Ranger (this isn't a gun-toting, Law Enforcement Officer Park Ranger, mind you. Those are altogether different, and would be more familiar with CFR and other legal/regulatory processes for something like geocaching...but still aren't the right person to get permission from!) to know what geocaching is, or what the policies are for geocaching. It is their job to know how to interpret the resource, how to help people engage in the education and outreach of the site, etc. Those types of public engagement folks are not going to be well-versed or even knowledgeable at any level (especially in their job requirements or description) about who or how to grant or deny permission for geocaching. And some of them may know or be trained to say, 'I'll have to direct you to our Project Leader...", but others may hear the idea for what geocaching is from a geocacher and think it sounds harmless enough. That employee might not know that something as 'harmless' as a geocache actually needs to be approved at high levels. That employee may only be a low-level public contact person with a patch and name badge, but to the geocacher suffices as "an employee told me it was fine..." (See the example of Target cashier versus asking the actual Store Manager for a serious inquiry.) This also has more applications than just the USFWS and Department of Interior (DOI--includes USFWS, National Park Service, and Bureau of Land Management, e.g.) examples I have given. The bottom line is that we have the onus to get permission from the appropriate levels of land management, and that Reviewers should also be acutely aware--as Maingray states above they are in his experience--of the levels of permission one must obtain from an neighborhood HOA, city, borough, county, state, or federal land manager. I can tell you that seasonal, temporary workers at a visitor center desk (let alone volunteers) really don't have a firm grasp of the policies and requirements to give permission for playing this abstract, obscure game. Depending on how the geocacher presents the question, it would be very, very easy for a seasonal Park Ranger to think that it is harmless enough. Even then, there are cases where employees may not be familiar enough with the management policies, regulations, and laws which would apply to allowing a geocache on their lands. So yes, I'll give you the fact that all employees of any business, nonprofit, or agency should know the protocols for land or property use. But you can't train and expect that they will apply their lesson learned when approached by a geocacher asking about an obscure game who might not be honest or forthright with how they describe the process. You get a naiive person or someone who isn't clear on protocols, and suddenly we have a problem. Again, the onus is on all of us to get permission at the proper levels for cache placements. And I'm telling you to tell your friends that this means a Special Use Permit or Compatible Use ruling against an existing CCP for all USFWS, many NPS, and some BLM lands from the Manager or Project Leader for the site they have in mind--not a Park Ranger, Biologist, or Visitor Center worker.

My first thought is it sounds like a training issue. If the Land Manager doesn't have the time or inclination to properly train their seasonal staff on their responsibilities, then maybe the seasonal workers shouldn't be put in a situation where this sort of thing might happen. The alternative is to have a clear policy on geocaching posted on the website for the area, or in public areas. Doesn't leave much room for guessing if there's adequate communication. For Federal agencies (as far as I can tell), there is really nothing to "train" on for geocaching. Other than at specific stations (offices, parks, refuges, etc.), there isn't any talk at the top about geocaching as a priority, so it isn't a "training issue" at all. It all depends on how it is presented to the person they are talking to. How is the cacher presenting their case to the person they are talking to? Are they being forthright and clear about what they are asking? Are they casually leaving out details about what geocaching is? You see, it is all about how it is presented for how someone will respond. Generally people have not asked at all at my specific station if they can hide caches--they've just assumed they can because it is "public land". However, I then had to go back and sweep up caches published on Refuge lands across Alaska with the help of our current, local Reviewer. Now the Reviewer knows exactly what needs to be in place for permission at USFWS lands in Alaska (and elsewhere in the country), and also has access to the most current overlays of federal properties including USFWS Refuges. Does every Reviewer have that information? No. Should they? Yes! Groundspeak should really work with Reviewers to be sure that those Reviewers have the tools they need to make a decision about geocaching on certain lands. The assumption all too often becomes, "If I don't know about a policy, there must be no reason stopping a cache publication...", when in fact the opposite is true. And I'll admit that it is very confusing to know which USFWS Refuges allow geocaches and which do not. Some do! (But they have geocaching addressed in their Refuge CCP as a compatible use, and also likely have a local Friends group, staff member(s), or other volunteers who help monitor and maintain the listings...) The bottom line is that Reviewers have a lot to pay attention to, and they really need to know--specifically for USFWS and other DOI agencies--who "permission" must be granted by for a geocache placement. Local geocaching organizations can also be proactive by approaching their local USFWS Refuges and asking about a Special Use Permit, or if Geocaching could be found as a compatible use under the CCP for that specific station. The Refuge Manager or Project Lead for that station makes that call about whether or not a geocache or geocache event is something that can happen there. The overall stance on geocaching for the USFWS is that it is not a compatible use: But, do Reviewers ask geocachers for the Special Use Permit from the Refuge if that cacher says, "I have permission from the Refuge to place this geocache"? I'd guess that most do not. That geocacher could have received "permission" from someone who is not at all aware of the CFR, CCP, or other issues regarding geocache placement. The person geocachers must talk to is the Refuge Manager, but I'll guess that the Reviewer isn't going to know or check most of the time when they are told via a cache submission that the cache placer "has permission". This goes the same for HOAs, city, county, borough, regional, state, and other federal land managers. Do geocachers know who to ask for permission on the ladder for each land manager? Likely not. Do Reviewers? Likely not. But this doesn't change the fact that we play a really abstract, covert, small-potatoes game that really doesn't register as a priority for most land managers until they realize there is a trespass or property damage issue. And, as geocachers, we shouldn't ever think that we can place a cache somewhere and let it go "until there's an issue". That's backwards. And wrong. And in most cases illegal. Sorry, but not buying into the argument that failed training of policies relevant to performing ones job is not the issue here, and that under some perverse leap of logic that Reviewers and Grounspeak are somehow to blame. Truly unbelievable!

My first thought is it sounds like a training issue. If the Land Manager doesn't have the time or inclination to properly train their seasonal staff on their responsibilities, then maybe the seasonal workers shouldn't be put in a situation where this sort of thing might happen. The alternative is to have a clear policy on geocaching posted on the website for the area, or in public areas. Doesn't leave much room for guessing if there's adequate communication. For Federal agencies (as far as I can tell), there is really nothing to "train" on for geocaching. Other than at specific stations (offices, parks, refuges, etc.), there isn't any talk at the top about geocaching as a priority, so it isn't a "training issue" at all. It all depends on how it is presented to the person they are talking to. How is the cacher presenting their case to the person they are talking to? Are they being forthright and clear about what they are asking? Are they casually leaving out details about what geocaching is? You see, it is all about how it is presented for how someone will respond. Generally people have not asked at all at my specific station if they can hide caches--they've just assumed they can because it is "public land". However, I then had to go back and sweep up caches published on Refuge lands across Alaska with the help of our current, local Reviewer. Now the Reviewer knows exactly what needs to be in place for permission at USFWS lands in Alaska (and elsewhere in the country), and also has access to the most current overlays of federal properties including USFWS Refuges. Does every Reviewer have that information? No. Should they? Yes! Groundspeak should really work with Reviewers to be sure that those Reviewers have the tools they need to make a decision about geocaching on certain lands. The assumption all too often becomes, "If I don't know about a policy, there must be no reason stopping a cache publication...", when in fact the opposite is true. And I'll admit that it is very confusing to know which USFWS Refuges allow geocaches and which do not. Some do! (But they have geocaching addressed in their Refuge CCP as a compatible use, and also likely have a local Friends group, staff member(s), or other volunteers who help monitor and maintain the listings...) The bottom line is that Reviewers have a lot to pay attention to, and they really need to know--specifically for USFWS and other DOI agencies--who "permission" must be granted by for a geocache placement. Local geocaching organizations can also be proactive by approaching their local USFWS Refuges and asking about a Special Use Permit, or if Geocaching could be found as a compatible use under the CCP for that specific station. The Refuge Manager or Project Lead for that station makes that call about whether or not a geocache or geocache event is something that can happen there. The overall stance on geocaching for the USFWS is that it is not a compatible use: But, do Reviewers ask geocachers for the Special Use Permit from the Refuge if that cacher says, "I have permission from the Refuge to place this geocache"? I'd guess that most do not. That geocacher could have received "permission" from someone who is not at all aware of the CFR, CCP, or other issues regarding geocache placement. The person geocachers must talk to is the Refuge Manager, but I'll guess that the Reviewer isn't going to know or check most of the time when they are told via a cache submission that the cache placer "has permission". This goes the same for HOAs, city, county, borough, regional, state, and other federal land managers. Do geocachers know who to ask for permission on the ladder for each land manager? Likely not. Do Reviewers? Likely not. But this doesn't change the fact that we play a really abstract, covert, small-potatoes game that really doesn't register as a priority for most land managers until they realize there is a trespass or property damage issue. And, as geocachers, we shouldn't ever think that we can place a cache somewhere and let it go "until there's an issue". That's backwards. And wrong. And in most cases illegal.

We'll discuss it with the CO of the ISS cache after you talk an astronaut into bringing the ISS cache back for you to sign, then go back up to the ISS to return it. If I were the CO, I'd be amused by you chutzpah...and your connections. But, to be more practical, I agree that there's a line: at some point, you aren't at GZ, so you can't be said to be using a tool to get the cache by sending someone else to bring it to you. The case we're talking about is where I'm in the same place whether I use a 20' grabber or send my son up the tree to get the cache for me. To me, there's no interesting difference.

My biggest peeve is throwdowns (why do the people after me get to log a find just because they replaced a container that may or may not have been missing?), but since this has been mentioned many times, I will talk about this guy in St. Louis who either takes the logs, or the containers themselves. He even notes it in his logs. "Easy find. Took log." People who come after note that the log is gone, and sometimes there's only DNFs after he logs an "Easy find." Granted, he's sort of new, so maybe he doesn't understand that you're not supposed to actually take the cache or log, but wow, it's annoying.

I see at the top there is a link that says "talk Geocaching in:" listed by links to various states... but when I click on Indiana, it takes me to a new page that doesn't have a discussion forum. Is this expected? Or are there cache forums for state/region? Trying to reach out to the people in our area.

We have regional forums (you're in Midwest...), and they're very slow as it is. By state you'd hear crickets just leaving recordings of their chirping. - Last post before yours was September. Some regions see more... Definitely not faceboook, where most seem to talk today. If me, I'd click on your state in the regional forums, and look for an event nearby to attend (and ask there about local cache groups). I click on my state for events near me, and new caches that are outta my area for notifications.