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Well, there's Cindy, a TB made from a cinder block, but we don't talk about her weight. There's also "Barry", a 3 foot long piece of railroad track.

The first hands-on videos, the Garmin press videos and the Garmin news mail only talk about GPS and glonass.

Thanks Jeff in Pa!! I was just reading all the posts and was thinking to myself of what I would have liked to have seen about a product, before making that substantial purchase. As for your question of what I don't like about the 530HCx, here it goes..... 1. Software Had two or three more software hick-ups. Had to disable and re-enable the radio to get audio to come back once and had my maps go nuts putting me off in ten-buck-two with chucks of the maps missing. A reboot (off and then on again) solved the problem, but I don't think that kinda stuff should happen. Granted, this is a very sophisticated piece of equipment and the more complicated anything is the more chance of problems with it, so I guess it's a trade off. I've only had about 5 software problems in 2 weeks of solid everyday use and not all required a reboot to fix the problem, plus I click the thumb stick a bit much sometimes. Also, again no data loss. 2. Push-to-Talk button and earbuds The push-to-talk button could give you a little more of a "click" feel so you know it's pressed down properly. The way it is you end up pressing on it too hard without realizing it. I've been using the earbud with push-to-talk button on it and that one clicks correctly. Also, the space just outside the connector the the headset/earbud is shaped so that the earbuds that I have for my 2 watt Motorola 7400 GMRS talkies won't fit. It's the exact same plug and exact same mic with push-to-talk button, but the connector on the Motorola earbud is fatter and won't snuggly fit in all the way, even though the connector itself is the same. Minor annoyance, but caused me to purchase the Garmin brand earbuds. 3. Antennas I don't know what you could do with them, but I would like to have the antennas be more ridged. It seems to me that if you are going to have a permanently affixed antenna it shouldn't bend and should as tough as you could get them. I could be wrong and I'm not a RF (Radio Frequency) Engineer either. That's about it for my problems with them and most of these I have noticed in my second week of use. I'm still thoroughly pleased with my purchase and plan to get some more! Maaan, testing the max radio distance was the first thing I wanted to do from the time I ordered it. I'm still doing it, getting a feel for different environments. From my bathroom, in my house, with the door closed, near the bathtub, I can talk a car coming into town almost 2 miles away. That is through lots of buildings and my town isn't two miles all the way across it, so it works out pretty good for me. And for clarification, I was NOT taking a bath and both the car and myself were at the same elevation. 1. No I haven't had any experience with interoperability between the models. Although, for the kiddos in the family I'm considering getting the 130 because it still has the voice scramble feature and compass/weather/etc. and I don't have to worry about the kids with a $350 piece of equipment. Although, they ARE supposed to be rugged and the anything below a 520 is just 1 watt transmit power, the kiddos have these things so we can keep track of them, why would I want to limit the range of tracking? So I'm still torn on what to do there. 2. Unless you are a young female, all my family has already been paired up, sorry. Honestly, even if you were a young female, I wouldn't want to put you through the grief being with any of my brother-in-laws, so there you have it. Sorry it took so long to reply to you guys, I forgot about my post and just today decided to check and see if anyone saw it. I'm glad I could help, thanks for the praise everyone.

If it is a right of way easement, then the land still belongs to the landowner, the government just has the legal right to build and maintain a road there, and people have the right to drive on it. So you'd ask the landowner then. Sometimes the property might actually change hands, though. For interstate highways, it's normally not just an easement, the government takes title to the land through eminent domain. So if you wanted to put a cache in, say, a rest area, In those cases, the state department of transportation might need to give permission. It may be worth it to reach out to some of the local cache owners to get a feel for what they had to do. One last note - the caching guidelines talk about "adequate" permission, not explicit. So if a county has an open geocaching policy on park land, you don't need to ask, just make sure your cache follows whatever rules the county put out there.

You say you heard voices but then you found out it was just the wind? How?! How can you be so shore? It still could be real voices right? Though I do have an idea that if you make a certain object and have wind blowing through it sort of like the voice box in are throat that makes us talk that it can make talking noises. Way out there huh. But if you think about what makes us talk. I think you can create a similar thing where you have an o next with air blowing through it that will make voice sounds. We basically blow out air when we talk so I think if you can make a certain object with wind blowing through it a certain way you can make voice sounds. I have probably lost you already haven't I? Well thanks for sharing and maybe it really was some ghosts but also it could be that when the wind blows in a certain way or objects we can sometimes here strange voices. I am just wondering how you can say it was the wind? That's all.

Hi RaeRobyn, you could create an event in your area to meet up with other local cachers and talk to them directly. I was thinking of doing this. I went to school in Gloucester which isn’t relevant to your question but partly why I posted a reply!

Before you storm off, I want to help you out here. Sidewalks and boulevards have different ownership based on the municipality and laws therein. What that means is, there is a chance that the sidewalk and boulevard might belong to a homeowner. Being able to know whether or not it is private property is a key part of cache placement. This is a prime example of why the adult who supervises minors in the game should also know the guidelines for placement and help the minors they supervise understand them. Take some time to think about the bigger issue here, Chris. It isn't personal when it comes down to it. You need to understand that you might not understand the game as well as you hoped you did. Take this feedback with a grain of salt. If you're getting frustrated about the game or forums, you should talk to you parents about it. so how can you tell if someones owns the sidewalk or not? or if a person owns the boulevard which i interpret as the road. for me at least i talk worse then i do type. when i talk i always stutter alot. but in writing sometimes certain phrases don't make sense so i will word it a different way. to me how i write makes sense. i have some disabilities where i don't understand phrases as i should. like they don't make sense. also in addition i guess i don't process imformation as well so i have a hard time talking and writing. this might be why my writing does not make sense sometimes.

Can you talk to the cache owner again? Since they know it's not there anymore, if they'd archive it, that would save you a lot of steps.

First, the coin design: This could be the first Esperanto Geocoin (though maybe not; ernie is working on one too). I'd like to find out whether there's enough of an interest to support making this (and I'll also be asking non-geocaching Esperanto enthusiasts if they're interested). Also, please note that I'm still seeking approval from lernu.net (a really great site for Esperanto students) and haven't shopped it by Groundspeak yet, either. I'm just at the stage of gauging interest. To that end, though, I'm asking for pre-reservation reservations (in other words, really tentative reservations) for this coin. There is no guarantee that it'll be made, but if it is, you'll be on the reserved list. The regular edition would be gold (with green enamels). There may also be a copper plating as well as a satin silver plating. The price will probably be between $8.50 and $9.50 -- though that is a totally rough estimate, since I haven't gotten mint quotes yet (and am still discussing with a particular vendor whether the coin will actually be made at all). If you're interested, please shoot me an email (kat at-sign grafikato dot com) with the subject line of "Esperanto Geocoin" and let me know: 1 - How many 2 - What plating(s) (If you don't specify plating, I'll assume gold) I will make sure you get regular updates as to its progress -- whether there's enough interest, approval for the art, etc. Translations: the front says "trackable at geocaching.com" (in Esperanto). The back says: "geocaching together without sticking to The Script" (in so many words) on the top, "Let's go geocaching" in the middle, and "easily, naturally, equally" along the bottom. (The actual wording may change a little to correct grammar; I'm not really a terrific Esperantist.) The green star is a major element for the Esperanto movement, and I've included some Victorian-style ornament to harken to the Esperanto movement's birth in the late 1800s. Most of this detail is done in various levels of recessed metal under IHE translucent greens (the coin will be all 2D and 1.75" in diameter). Now, a little more about the background for the coin and its design (sorry, it's going to be a minor novel here): If you haven't heard of it, Esperanto is an artificial, auxiliary language created in the late 1800s. It has 16 rules of grammar and is amazingly easy to learn. The idea behind Esperanto was that it would not supplant a person's national language, but rather be a language you could pull out of your pocket if you wanted to talk with someone whose language you didn't speak (and who didn't speak yours). It was (and still is) promoted as an alternative to designating a national language as a primary language, because there's a lot of emotion attached to national languages (as well as a lot of cultural, historical, and ideological baggage that people might object to). I like the idea of this a lot. It also helps me out because, again, I'm undisciplined (read: lazy). I would rather learn ONE language than have to learn several. National languages are difficult! The main thing I encounter, when I talk about Esperanto, is something along the lines of this (usually said in a snotty tone): "but we already HAVE an international language -- it's called 'ENGLISH'." And this is true, to a point. English is the international language of commerce. If you want to get business done in an international sense, it behooves you to know English. And if you want to travel around the world, you'll be able to get by in English. But that's it: "get by". Because the international language isn't fluent English, it's what I like to call "English by The Script". There are Scripts that people know: "How to Book Someone a Hotel Room". "How to Sell an Airplane Ticket". "How to Tell Someone How Much He/She Owes You and How to Present Change". International travelers should recognize this: it's relatively easy to get around using English as long as, essentially, you're limiting your conversation to the buying of goods & services (and if you have a problem that is a very common problem). If you're trying to handle something that is not in The Script, though, you're in trouble. Have an uncommon problem? Trying to pay for the tickets in a nonstandard way? Trying to find someplace cool off the beaten path? Get ready for frustration. And forget trying to talk about anything meaningful, such as someone's favorite art or music (and why), the history of the place you're in (unless it's part of the guide's Script, of course), or favorite places to go caching, or anything like that. Totally forget it. English is a really difficult language to learn -- it's hard enough to learn The Script. So that's why I like Esperanto. You can get fluent in it extremely quickly. I've been able to have decent and interesting correspondence with people from France, Czechoslovakia and Russia without having to know French, Czech, or Russian (or having to puzzle through possibly tortured English). I think that it's a good idea, though I don't think that it will ever really take off unless it gets its hooks into the mechanism of commerce. In general, people won't take the time unless they have to -- I'm talking here about a broad, world-wide use of Esperanto, mind you. There actually is quite a following, enough to support large Associations and conferences and courses the world over*, and to support the "Pasporto Servo" (in which Esperantists will put you up in their house for free while you're traveling, just to have the opportunity to talk with you). *French Esperantists actually have an honest-to-goodness castle. I've always wanted to do an Esperanto Geocoin, and I'd like to support lernu.net (any profit I personally make will go straight to lernu.net) -- it's one of the best Esperanto sites out there. At the same time, while I want the coin to promote Esperanto and be in Esperanto, I want it to be about geocaching, too. I think that Esperanto could be pretty useful to geocachers, especially those wanting to strike out in other countries and hang out with local geocachers whose national language they don't know, or whose command of English is not so hot. Because it's just incredibly frustrating to have to focus on the process of communication rather than simply worrying about what you're communicating. Thanks for putting up with that lengthy screed, and I hope you enjoy the coin! If you'd like one, please do let me know!

Same here. I receive and send on average five emails a day in this hobby. Most are people who don't/won't enter the forums. All my other communication is by email as well. People talk to me on the phone too.

As I understand it, the guideline is that cachers shouldn't have to enter the business and interact or purchase. Just entering a business itself can be okay, especially if the business is one (ie, grocery store) where people can enter and walk around without interacting with employees. This is different from a business (ie, restaurant) where people can't just walk around without some employee interaction. No, the guideline states that cachers shouldn't have to enter the business, interact, and/or purchase. That's a big difference. From Groundspeak's commercial guidelines: Another example of where the serial comma creates ambiguity. Note, the actual guideline does not have a comma after "interact". The portion before the comma could be read as a separate phase in a sequence of events, and the portion after the comma to be a subsequent phase. Imagine a movie theater said "Customer can't enter the theater, talk on their cell phones and/or play music." The items are sequential. Such a sentence means that customers can't enter the theater and then talk on phones and/or play music. The sentence doesn't mean that customers can't enter the theater. The same sentence can be interpreted multiple ways, as is apparent from this thread. My reading of the guideline aligns with what's been noted in a couple other posts (quoted below):

Maybe you are right. I encountered these two phrases in some kind of a corporate talk and they were used interchangeably there.

The bit I've highlighted in red is probably what scares me most about this cache quality push, not so much for my own hides which I visit fairly regularly anyway just for my own satisfaction that all's well (and because I put them in places I like to visit), but for some of the excellent ones I've enjoyed over the years that are well-made, well-concealed from muggles and simply don't need regular maintenance. A nano in a busy city might need its log scroll and/or seal replaced every few months, but the same isn't true of a remotely-placed rugged cache with a proper logbook that might only get a couple of visits a year. To fill in a dull evening last week (and to avoid all the endless political talk about our Federal election), I went through the hundred caches I've given FPs to. Of those, 9 have been archived, 23 have had some maintenance done during their life, but the other 68 as best I could tell have never had any maintenance at all (no NMs logged and the only OMs just said everything's fine). They're still the original container with its original logbook and are still in great condition. These aren't just all new caches either; of the ones that haven't been archived, 41 are more than 5 years old and 9 of those are more than 10 years old. The oldest was placed in 2001 and, after being replaced in 2002 following a fire, hasn't had or needed any attention since. A good container in a hiding place protecting it from the elements and muggles will last pretty much indefinitely without any owner attention, so it really doesn't matter whether the owner is responsible and still active or not, the cache remains there to be enjoyed by generations of cachers to come. I'd hate to see any well-intentioned enforcement of regular maintenance designed to rid the world of decrepit micros result in the loss of many of these fine caches either because their owners have left the game or are unwilling to put in the often substantial effort needed to visit them regularly when there's no need to.

But what if I really really need to talk to you? Just kidding. It would be nice if there was an Ignore All Messages option.

I like it. Until I don't get drawn and then I will talk mad trash about everyone who got one! ;) Actually, the nice thing about 2.0 is that won't be the case. I will know I didn't randomly get drawn and there isn't anything you can do about it. However, I would like to see this applied to webcam caches. People with over 25 webcam caches and who opt in get drawn to make a new list of webcam caches. I would love that...because I have found over 25 webcam caches! However, that took a lot of miles and work. It was not easy. I love webcam caches!

Yeah that is really frustrating. :-( I am not 100% certain I will be at GW yet, but if I am I will for sure look for you again. If you want I could be a wing man if you want to talk to them.

I updated the WF site to use Groundspeak's new API. Let me know if anyone experiences any issues. Here's something funny: I was asked if I wanted to list Kit (and perhaps the WF site) in the list of API partners. Uhh... Groundspeak, not unless you want to thoroughly confuse the mess out of the community, listing third-party Wherigo services as a partner on one hand and reviewers saying you can't talk about it on the other. That might not be the best of ideas until you lift the reviewer ban.

I was inspired once again to come here to the forums to discuss maps after attempting to plan a hike for this weekend. To find new caches I need to hike in unknown areas. If I were doing a small area city cache adventure then the current maps might suffice. To find new caching trails in many miles of mountains, I need a big view of the available caches. I find trails by looking for cache trails. It is very frustrating to keep having to reload the caches. My internet connection can get bogged down and what is supposed to be a few fun moments of searching for new cache trails turns into a long frustrating exercise in testing my internet speed. I end up thinking about quitting caching and stop my search early. I suspect new cachers who use their phones may not care about the new map differences. But it's the old cachers who find a lot of caches who are the ones who pay to keep the electricity on at Groundspeak Headquarters, so I would hope that they will pay attention to how many people are reporting in on this. Pay attention to what exactly people are complaining about, and who is not happy. I am considering writing an old fashion letter, this issue is so important to me, since it doesn't seem to draw any attention to talk about it on the forums. Anyone else who wants to join me on this: Groundspeak Headquarters 837 N 34th St #300, Seattle, WA 98103

I can't listen to the Geocaching podcasts or the advertised "10 Best Geocaching Songs" while I'm using the app to geocache? That's crazy talk! What's the point of a Geocaching Mix tape if I can't listen to it while I look for geocaches? https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2018/03/the-top-10-best-geocaching-songs/

Thank you for your quick reply. I disabled the Cachetur Assistant and that did produce the desired results on the map. Now to talk with Thomfre.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change. Why is that so hard for you to understand. Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying. Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows. What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple. Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now.

I don't see why the event wouldn't be published, if geocachers can attend and at least talk about geocaching; that's sufficient to be geocaching-themed. But the souvenir, yeah, almost certainly wouldn't get one. The Geocaching In Space promo a few years back was because of the ISS geocache and TB travels, so there was reason to hold official events and provide a souvenir.

Why do you care if the reviewer picks up on it? The CO's the one that can easily fix these things. Talk to him, not to the cops.

That only works if I'm browsing around my home coordinates. 9 times out of 10, I'm browsing the area around some cache I'm looking at. I used to be able to do this from the cache description. You're suggesting that instead of open the map around my home area and scroll it how ever many miles away to look at the area I'm interested in? That or install a hack to correct GS's mistake? I mean, thanks for the advice and all, but it would be easier if the system just did what we all want. Just to remind everyone, there's an "old search map" that I rarely found myself looking at and have no particular feelings about whether it was better or worse than the new search map. There's also the browse map, which hasn't changed (much). The button you talk about takes you to the browse map, not the old search map. Although the new search map replaced the old search map as part of the recent release, the much more sweeping change that I think most if not all of us are complaining about was changing all the pointers to the browse map so they now point to the search map. Interesting point about "Browse Geocaches" being unintuitive. I hadn't thought of that because I've been reading the forums where "browse map" has become a common term to distinguish the two maps. But now that you mention it, "browse geocaches" makes no sense to someone looking at the maps because maps are inherently used to browse. "End Search" might make more sense, although only if the user got to the map by starting a search.

The material below is reproduced from the geocaching discussion forum, and it should be reviewed by every benchmark hunter. What we do as a hobby is enjoyable and has value to the community. We need to be on our "best behavior" at all times so we don't ruin a good thing. Be polite when speaking with landowners and other persons whom you encounter during a hunt. Respect property. Honor DO NOT TRESPASS signs and chain-link fences. If the mark is in a cemetery and is recessed eight inches, perhaps you should let that one go, rather than being seen digging near a grave. Moreover, given the attention to unflattering photos of cache hobbists romping on private property, it might be a good idea if we eliminated the cartoon characters from our benchmark photos. They're cute, I admit. But this could give the wrong impression if we ever had to defend our hobby, as the geocachers in South Carolina are having to do. Likewise, we should watch what we type in the captions. In the original thread, you'll see a reference to "The Money Shot" [a term from the pornographic movie industry] which was picked up on a cache photo by that hobby's enemies. The identical wording recently found its way into the benchmark gallery. -Paul- Pasted Material Follows: I was at the meeting yesterday. The Special Laws Subcommittee meeting was scheduled to last an hour, and topic H. 3777 which seeks to restrict Geocaching was the third item on the agenda. The subcommittee has 5 members, there were 6 Geocachers in the room a half hour before the meeting. Our intention was to give the subcommittee introduction to Geocaching. We were prepared to demystify it, to talk about what it was and who was doing. We knew of six South Carolina Policement who were Geocachers, a firefighter, three paramedics, a retired missionary, an active minister, the General Manager of a hotel. More importantly, we knew the occupations of Geocachers in the districts represented by the sub committee members, and we were prepared to show Geocachers as a responsible group of citizens who could be trusted with the sensitive areas within the state. We were lined up to talk about CITO, and we had pictures from past projects as well as the calendar of future events. We were pysched. Ten minutes before the meeting, the sponsor of the legislation enters the meeting room and she sets up material for her presentation. In addition to lots of printed material, she sets of two large poster boards on an easel at the front of the room. These poster boards are covered with text from log entries from finders who were logging cemetery caches, as well photographs they had taken while within the cemetery. They had done their research well, and they were displaying the worst of the worst. (I'm working with the Representative to identify every picture and every log entry, and rest assured that I will post them all here once they have been identified. In the meantime, I will have to describe what was displayed.) There were photographs of groups of people out night-caching, posing for a group photograph as they leaned against old grave markers. There were photographs of caches that had been found, temporarily resting atop prominent gravestones so that a picture could be taken. There were several pictures of people lying on the ground right next to markers, and getting their pictures taken so that their smiling face, the marker and their GPS were all visible. There were log entries too, some of these said things like: "There was a freshly dug grave but no one was in it yet, this was so cool." "It was great fun spooky fun to be out at night in the graveyard." There were many more pictures and logs as well, and over and over they underscored the "game" aspect of this pasttime, and they showed the worst practices engaged in while cache hunting in grave yards. These images and logs, which had been freely provided by Geocachers in their own log entries, were incredibly damning evidence. They were appalling, and not one of us there could take a stand and defend those practices. Needless to say, for those of us who were there our tactics changed at this point. We could have talked until we were blue in the face about the educational value of geocaching. That was not going to be disputed. We could have talked about the benefits of CITO. That was not going to be disputed. They were going to talk about disrespect in cemeteries, and they had evidence provided by Geocachers to do so. It was also apparent as the meeting time approached that the meeting was filling up, and I was not recognizing additional Geocachers coming in. The other legislative items on the agenda were discussed first, and about twenty five minutes went by before the Geocaching Bill came up for discussion. The sponsor of the legislation got up and introduced her bill. She talked about how Geocaching started, even referring to the Clinton Administrations actions regarding Select Availability which led to the production of accurate civilian hand held GPS units. She spoke of the general cache hiding and seeking process, and then she told of the assault by geocachers into the cemeteries in her county. Background- At one point in time there had been a series of cemetery themed multi caches in the Beaufort county area. The owner had done careful research to make sure that all of his chosen locations were in public cemeteries, and he had been very responsive to any complaints found in logs about neighbors & residents who didn't want the visitors in their cemetery. Despite the careful planning and the historical nature of these caches, the influx of primarily white geocaching visitors into these rural historical primarily black cemeteries was noticed, and as some of the cemeteries experienced vandalism or even digging and looting, the local residents became increasingly uneasy with the visitors, many of whom seemed more interested game-playing than in the history of the area. During her introduction of the topic, she read aloud a handful of logs by people who had found these (and other) cemetery caches. After she spoke, the next speaker was the State Archaelogist for South Carolina. This gentleman spoke of the impact on Geocaching in sensitive historical and archaeological sites within the states. He had a list of caches which were on or near sensitive sites, and for over a year he had tried to make contact and had not found anyone who was responsive to his issues. So, it's ten minutes into the discussion of the of this legislation, and here's where we stand: 1. We have pictures of incriminating behavior taken by Geocachers themselves within cemeteries. 2. We have log entries read aloud which show that romping around in cemeteries at night is fun (as opposed to educational and of historical value), and it's even more fun if that was find number 8 of 10 at night. 3. We have the state archaeologist talk about his attempts to contact someone to talk with, and futile that experience has been for him. The next speaker for the state makes similar comments and makes the point that since it is has not been easy to contact us and since this behavior has gone on for a while, the time for Geocaching to police its own behavior has come to an end, and the state must take action to protect its own sensitive areas, and this includes cemeteries, archaeological sites and historic sites. And these last two speakers were impassioned. They were folks who had obviously had frustrated by what they perceived as out of control rogue behavior, and they spoke with a force that had built up over time. Someone for our side spoke next. We had a copy of a letter written by the Geocacher who had created the original Beaufort county cemetery series. In the letter, he explained on how he choose these sites based upon their public access locations and their historical value, and that he never had intended the series to be disrepectful in any way. His letter contained logs from Geocachers who had encountered local residents during their cache hunts, and in all cases but one the contact between Geocachers and local residents was friendly. The letter ended with an apology for any tension that might have been caused by the placement of these caches. Our speaker acknowledged the damning photographs and condemned the actions of those who appeared in them. He thanked the committee for allowing him to speak and took his seat. The next two persons to speak where from Beaufort county or nearby areas. They were caretakers of cemeteries and other historic sites in the area, and they spoke out in support of this Bill. There was time for one more speaker, and I spoke. I stated that I had prepared remarks last night and I was fully prepared to talk about the educational benefits of Geocaching and to even mention the responsible Geocachers across the state, but instead I wanted to acknowledge how ugly and indefensible those pictures were. I talked about the Geocachers in the state, the retired missionary and other clergymen, the policemen, the firefighters and paramedics and others. And I said that all these folks would be as appalled to see this evidence as I was. I thanked the chairman for letting me speak, and I took my seat. The chairman then spoke and acknowledged that since there were so many visitors who had not spoken, that this topic would be continued next week, and it would be the first item on the agenda. For what it's worth, they had 8 more folks who could have spoken, we had 2 more who were prepared to speak. I've tried to record these observations as accurately as possible without spinning. We were definitely caught off guard by how organized the supporters of this legislation were, as well as being caught off guard by all the evidence that we gave them freely through the website. The frustration in their voices seemed genuine. Given the evidence presented to us and the mood of the room, yesterday was not the time or place deliver the positions that we had intended. It was better yesterday to acknowledge how embarrassing the evidence was, and to pledge to work to stop that behavior. I've typed parts of this hurriedly because I'm running late for an evening engagement. If I've been unclear, please let me know and I'll try and clarify. I plan on being at the second meeting next week, and I hope that we will be able to act from a stronger position at time. I will post the entire poster boards as they are made available to me, as quickly as possible. They are absolutely 100% right about this based on the evidence they have been able to present. How apalling! It only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. These cachers should be banned from caching. I'm sorry but that is the way I feel. There is a certain amount of decency and respect that we should have for all aspects of life or death. This has turned from just a game to something better with CITO and the education the "game" provides with it's historical aspects. It's time for the good to reign in the bad. I strongly push the point of banning any cacher that is resposible for such wreckless irresponsible activity. This discussion is ongoing in the GEOCACHING forum. Read the original 28-page thread at: South Carolina Proposed Legislation