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Ever noticed that GS collects VAT (although they don't disclose their VAT registration number ) on PM's of EU citizens? Same difference. As said before, it's because of the likes of FB that this law was made. Even people without accounts had their data collected without their knowledge, talk about scary. At least now rhere's a tool to fight this. Rest assured, one of the the first to experience GDPR will be "one of the big ones" (FB, Google,MS, Apple...)

Glad you found your way here. Let's talk some Geocaching.

I'm not religious about it, but generally if I'm really revisiting a cache (as opposed to just checking to see if it's still in place), I'll open it and sign the log again, yes. It doesn't take much to talk me out of it, though, like if it's hard to retrieve or has some delicate camo that I don't want to disturb.

Rhyming logs ... cool . I my home zone, there is the mystery cache GC522C5. It turned out to be very hard to solve, and it took almost 9 months until the FTF was logged. It's an all time record for a cache within ~100km from my home. 6 months after the publish, with no FTF in sight and the cache being _the_ talk on many events, I logged the following note. The cache title, "4 Gurken", is German for "4 cucumbers", in case someone actually reads it and wonders about the reference . ------------------------------------- Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody, alternate lyrics: Bohemian Mystery Is this a real cache? Or is it mockery? No-one can tell me, so it still is a mystery. Open your eyes, look up to the tree and see! There is a T5, should not be hard to get. because it's 4.5, no D5, not too high, not too low. Be the first to find it! Doesn't really matter to me, to me. Hooray! Just found a cache. Turned a stone and then I saw the box - just like so many more. Found it! It was such a fun, and now I'm gonna search another one. Caching, oooh! Such a thrill to make a find, today it's great and it will be tomorrow. Caching on, caching on, as if nothing really matters. Too bad, a mystery sends shivers down my spine, head is aching all the time. Help me, anybody, I've got to find the solution to the riddle I can't solve. Help me, oooh (be the first to find it) I just wanna log, I sometimes wish I'd really clicked on "Ignore" ... (* guitar solo *) I see 4 little green cucumbers on my screen, And a hint, and a hint! But what is the solution? Cucumbers are lazy, brain is going crazy, see?! The reviewer (the reviewer) The reviewer (the reviewer) The reviewer eahmschaugo The one who knows I'm out of mind now, nobody helps me! He's out of mind now, will someone help him out? Help him ignore all this dadgum mysteries! Easy come, easy find, will you tell me where? No, never! No, we will not tell you where (tell him where!) No, never! We will not tell you where (tell him where!) No, never! We will not tell you where (tell me where!) Will not tell you where (tell me where!) Never never tell you where. Never tell me where. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no! Oh the cucumber, the cucumber (oh cucumber, where are you?) An FTF is just out of reach for now for me, for me, for meeeeeeee!!!! So you think you can tease me and laugh in my face? So you think that there should be no FTF race? Oh, owner, can't do this to me, owner! Just gotta find out, just gotta find out where it is. Any other caches, Anyone can see, Any other caches, don't look just as haunting to me. (Be the first to find it.) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is - in other words - exactly what I said. The rest of your posting talks a lot about numbers. Numbers of waymarks in a category, numbers of officers. But you never talk about the subject of a category. Whether it is an interesting subject or not. To make it short: It seems that you prefer to have prevelant and global waymarks and I prefer to have interesting waymarks and don't care that much about the numbers. Fortunately we both are allowed to have our own opinions.

Well, please don't get me wrong, but I don't think that it is up to you (or anybody else) alone to decide what is "outstanding" for the entire planet. We are all people from different countries of different ages with different interests and so on. What you would call an outstanding category might bore me to death and vice versa. Don't get me wrong: I don't think that your opinion is wrong, I'm just trying to explain, that my opinion isn't completely wrong either. Now for the prevelance: The category "Ancient Traces and Roads" needed more than 10 years to collect 261 waymarks worldwide(!). If we had to decide TODAY, if this category should pass peer review, would you vote against it? I know that I wouldn't. Simply because there are people out there who would be enthusiastic to see them and this category would help them to get all the information needed to find them. Next example: "Glaciers", 12 years, 77 waymarks. Next: "Martello Towers", 10 years, 55 waymarks. And the list could be continued for a while. If all these categories would have failed in peer review, how boring would this hobby be? To get some facts I checked Wikipedia and found a list of all Romanesque buildings in Austria, which is a quite small country. I was very surprised to see that the list contains 136 buildings, 4 of which are in my hometown Wien. I know that we have one or two ancient roads, some glaciers and - as far as I know - not one Martello tower. But still all these categories would get a positive vote from me. Furthermore, if I could do what I wanted I would kick out the thousands of McDonalds Restaurant waymarks to make room for a few hundred Romanesque buildings, but that's a different story. The point (in my humble opinion) is: The prevelance criterion doesn't include a specific number, because it would be impossible to define one. Some things don't exist in large quantities, because only a few of them survived for hundreds or thousands of years or simply because there aren't endless volcanos on this planet. So, if we talk about buildings that are hundreds of years old, we have to accept that there are less than from younger periods.

Here is what was sent to my account by the above waymarker: "I don't expect this to help my cause but you are an officer in the Iowa Historic Markers category. WOW, talk about a category which is NOT GLOBAL. Shame on you! " I'm going to REALLY try to be diplomatic about this since you are obviously pissed off and not thinking clearly. I will tell you right off the bat, however, what you did is truly outside the boundaries of acceptable social norms - I guess it is to be expected in these days of computer anonymity. Act first, get called out on it, then apologize - pretty much par for the course in this day and age. First, I did not create the Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, or Oklahoma State Historical Marker categories that I officer, and, as a favor, became an officer to keep them alive. So, no, actually, I'll take your thanks and not your shame for doing that - I had NO control on whether or not those categories were created or not. If you look at the dates of creation of those categories, three were created at the time Waymarking was created and Oklahoma was created in 2008. For more of your information, Missouri Historical Markers was created by one of the early founders of Waymarking - the late GEO*Trailblazer1. I was more than honored when I was asked to take a spot as an officer in a group that he founded. I think I would try to get my facts straight before I went on an email blast, but that is just me... Second, I gave my HONEST opinion in both the forum and in the Peer Review - DEAL WITH IT AS AN ADULT!!!!! Everyone isn't going to like your category. I thought then, and I think now it is a niche category that is limited in both of those buildings that CAN be waymarked and WHERE they can be waymarked. You knew EXACTLY how my vote was going to be. If you didn't, go back up about halfway up this discussion - I said it would be a tough sell because of the limits of geography. Sorry, I didn't sugarcoat, I didn't lie, I didn't blow smoke up a certain orifice - I told you exactly how I was thinking then, and it was exactly how I voted in Peer Review. At least I had the guts to keep my comments public, I could have hidden them and as well as my name. It's crappy emails like you sent is the reason that the tickbox to keep comments hidden is there. I was at least trying to give you some feedback, obviously, not wanted UNLESS it was of the positive kind. Third, you actually got some very nice comments from some VERY well respected waymarkers in Peer Review. WHY, do you then feel the need to go ahead and slam other waymarkers like this? Are you really that insecure of the category passing that you feel the need to lash out at negative comments? If my actually very calm comments in the peer review section touched a nerve like that, just imagine the first time you deny a waymark? You will learn very quickly what "Shame on you!" REALLY means when you read what an angry waymarker writes. In conclusion, this is the second time this year someone from across the pond has felt the need to admonish me through a private email. This is a global hobby, not just one for either the European or North American areas. Seriously, and I really say this with the utmost respect, what you said in the forum and privately was totally uncalled for. You should have researched more about those State Historical Markers before you decided to put some of the Waymarking population on email blast. Seriously, you look really immature by slamming fellow waymarkers in the forum and in private emails. I'm not holding my breath for an apology, although one is certainly due me and the rest of the waymarkers you decided to go on full tilt. To the rest of the Waymarking population, I'm sorry you have to read the above diatribe from me. I guess I could just have bitten the bullet and taken the personal attack, however, our friend above has decided the measurement of certain body parts is in order. I guess from now on, we have to agree with EVERY category that comes down the pipe,

Thanks for the enjoyable read! Talk about epic road trip. There was a post awhile back that showed a route they took through Europe to get as many countries as possible.

Yep. I believe folks sometimes confuse faceboook with forums. Disagreeing with another once on a local caching site, they said, "you couldn't talk to me like that on faceboook, a mod would stop that" after I called bs on something said (I was where he mentioned, he wasn't...). I asked "what would be the purpose of a 'discussion' where everyone agrees with you ?".

Thanks for the enjoyable read! Talk about epic road trip.

A. Responding does not necessarily equate to "being nice". B. You can never control whether someone is "offended". Even a "nice" response could end up being read as a swipe at them or rude response. I'd rather let them get frustrated by no response than interact with someone who chooses not to put effort into a solve...or at least say they did. C. Not responding to lazy cachers takes precisely zero effort, so it already has an advantage over any interaction at all. and... D. I've actually been interacting with you about this, yet you still feel the need to talk about it and make me out to be some rude jerk. This is PRECISELY the sort of issue I'm talking about. By pursuing this discussion, you are actually, in a way, proving my point.

Meh...I don't feel like responding to every request for a hint on my puzzles. I don't feel like it's reasonable to expect me to always respond. I don't get offended when others don't respond to my own messages. All this talk about what is "reasonable" is...ummm...unreasonable?

Hi All. Brand new here (haven’t found a single cache yet), but the whole concept is so cool i am now after my first one. Tell me: is it addictive? :-p Anyway, I’m Brazilian but now living in Berkshire, UK. If anyone wants to talk that’s nearby, give me a shout!

You may be right. I'm trying to understand why someone would suggest that a CO would be better off placing a string of traditionals caches along a route, rather than make the same experience a single multi-cache. That was basically what someone suggested in another discussion thread, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I can see that, but I'd take the advice as the simple practical comment: very few will do 1000 stage multi, so do a 1000 traditionals, instead. It doesn't much matter why that is. Even what you quoted in the OP sounds like nothing more than "don't bother me with a multi", not "if you do a multi, I won't get as many smilies." What's struck me about the quality question is that in almost every response to the quality poll, people keep calling it "quality" when what they talk about is what they like. I appreciate this thread in this context, because I think what we're seeing is that the multi-trad vs. multicache discussion boils down to what people like and not at all about which has more quality. Specifically, some people like lots of simple, individual caches, so by what right do we say those caches don't have "quality"? Yet dissing power trails in just what way is a prevalent position in the quality discussion.

The case you made is that numbers are the only reason for people to pick multiple caches over a multicache. I argued against it. It doesn't really make sense for you to turn around and talk about the fact that you can imagine a situation where the numbers really would be the only difference. Although I like multicaches, my point was that many people (most people, actually) don't like multicaches, so you just strengthen my argument by making the multicache in your thought experiment devoid of anything that would make anyone at all want to do it. All the more reason for people to pick the traditionals instead. I'm not really sure I know what point you're trying to make, but I think the multicache doesn't support it. I think what you're trying to say is presented just as well with the thought experiment of 2 traditional out in the desert 100 miles apart vs. a string of 1000 traditionals strung out a tenth of a mile apart. I think you're trying to suggest that it's only an obsession with numbers that would make the 1000 cache string more popular. Would that be as valid a thought experiment to get to your point? There are people that do power trails. Some of them, I guess, do it just for the numbers, but I think most do it for the challenge. Yes, the mind numbing challenge. I've considered trying one for that reason, but haven't had a reason to be near one. Furthermore, even if you could prove that the only people that ever did power trails were people that had no interesting in geocaching beyond the find count, I'd still just say, "More power to them!" There's invalid about being motivated by numbers.

"What is the difference in their experiences?" Are you kidding? What's the similarity? It's like two different games. With traditionals, all you do is find the cache and sign the log. With a multi, you have to read the coordinates of the next stage, copy them into your GPSr, and then you have to figure out where the next stage is and how to get there. You don't know where you're going when you start, so you can't plan your route and you won't know where you're going to end up. The only similarity is that there's a container at each specific location. (We'll ignore the fact that multi stages don't have to be anything like cache containers.) I don't doubt there are a lot of people that skip multis because the same number of traditions will give them a higher count, but I think far more people skip multis because they think they're too much work and are unpredictable. And that's just 2 stage multis. Talk about a multi that takes a day, and only a very special group of people will do it. You can't tell me that the other 95% of cachers are all numbers hounds. It's just obviously not true. There's no doubt people often do the power trails because they think the stats are important, but I think that argument evaporates when you talk about about a day's worth of typical caches. 20, 30, even 100 finds doesn't make much of a difference in statistics considering what's impressive by today's standards. If someone picks 10 traditionals over a 10 stage multi, it's hard for me to imagine they're doing it for the stats. There have to be other reasons...and I think I've explained what they are. (For the record: I love multis and do any I run into. On the other hand, I've never done a power trail.)

It isn't really a "use at your own risk" kind of issue. It's really more of a "don't talk about these things on our foums" issue. For example, someone might want to discuss... the differences between an unauthorized smartphone app and other apps (Groundspeak's app and/or the authorized API partner apps). the latest location-based game that isn't geocaching. a new geocache listing site, and the new features it introduced, or the mistakes its making, or whatever. what geocache listing sites are best for cross-listing a cache (in addition to listing it at geocaching.com). what geocache listing sites are best for listing cache concepts that were not published on geocaching.com. the details of an upcoming geocaching trip that includes someone banned from Groundspeak's forums. There are any number of conversations that would not be allowed on Groundspeak's forums. Groundspeak is perfectly free to set such rules for their forums. But those rules may discourage local geocaching groups from using their forums.

The app was convenient, so it brought more new people in to try the hobby. It's no surprise the more new people mean more mistakes, but I think it's the number of new players, not the fact that many of them were using the app. Have you really seen much of that? It does happen, but only a few caches a year. And, man, talk about being discouraged: the newbies that get into it and drop a couple sub-par caches get bored really fast when people complain about bad placement and poor containers, so they rarely plant more than a couple such caches before giving up. Since I don't believe this happens often enough to worry about, I'm against "doing something about it" just in general, but the fact is that some of the best COs in my area started out this way then quickly learned from their mistakes. We'd have missed out on a lot of good caches if the process had discouraged them from trying because they'd fail. More new players, more problems makes sense. But, the ratio is different between the groups. Lets say we get 100 people that stumble upon the app and 100 stumbling upon an article in a magazine or newspaper. It stands to reason that more app users will make mistakes because they download and immediately try to play. At the same time, the article readers get more information right off the bat and thereby tend to make less mistakes. Mas38's statement is certainly what's happening in my area. The vast majority of new app owners only stay with us for a short time. New names pop up once or twice and then they're gone never to be heard from again. We are lucky though that they don't tend to place caches in the short time they're interested.

The app was convenient, so it brought more new people in to try the hobby. It's no surprise the more new people mean more mistakes, but I think it's the number of new players, not the fact that many of them were using the app. Have you really seen much of that? It does happen, but only a few caches a year. And, man, talk about being discouraged: the newbies that get into it and drop a couple sub-par caches get bored really fast when people complain about bad placement and poor containers, so they rarely plant more than a couple such caches before giving up. Since I don't believe this happens often enough to worry about, I'm against "doing something about it" just in general, but the fact is that some of the best COs in my area started out this way then quickly learned from their mistakes. We'd have missed out on a lot of good caches if the process had discouraged them from trying because they'd fail.

Placing caches in residential areas is always tricky. You'd have to get permission first of all. I don't know how easy it would be to get permission to place a cache in/on a street light. Municipalities would probably frown on people tinkering with their street light. I'm guessing that 99-100% of lamp post hides do not have permission. Asking the owner of the Little Free Library would be easier in the long run - they're already wanting people to come and rifle through that bookshelf, so they're probably going to be OK with people coming and looking for a cache there. But besides the permission angle, you have the neighbor angle. Are there houses nearby where people might get jittery if people start hanging out in the area, looking suspicious? If people start frequenting a street light by their side yard, will they think there's a new drug drop or something? Personally, although it sounds harder, I'd get permission from the LFL owner. If you don't want to knock on their door, try leaving a note in the library itself with an explanation and your email address. However, you've got to talk to people eventually. Bite the bullet and knock on the door.

My events are simple: Meet at a local homemade ice cream shop Stand around the parking lot and talk about geocaching To a muggle that might sound boring, but my one hour (scheduled) events often last two hours or even more. And I've gotten to know some really nice people! Sometimes a kid will attend with their parent(s) and get to meet a cache owner whose caches they really liked, and for them it's like meeting a celebrity. "I found your cache! It was so cool!"

Yep. Most of the time, geocachers sit around a table and talk. There is often a log book for people to sign. Sometimes there are name tags. There is usually a table where trackables are placed so people can discover or retrieve them. Sometimes there are organized activities, like games or raffles. An easy and fun ice-breaker game is "Geocacher Bingo", where you get a bingo card filled with various geocacher characteristics, and you have to get people who match those characteristics to write their names in the corresponding spaces. Examples include "owns an EarthCache" or "has found fewer than 100 caches" or "does not own a smartphone". Often there is food. Many events are held in restaurants or coffeehouses, or at patio seating outside such places. Some have been potlucks. There is a 24-hour donut shop that is sometimes used for midnight events (events that run from 12:00 to 12:30 AM, usually to be the first event on a day where a special Souvenir is available).

Although there has been talk about replacing the PQ system (I can suggest a design for that) there still needs to be a way to encapsulate geocache data so that it can be transferred from the site, other applications such as waypoint managers (GSAK, EasyGPS, Basecamp), and the devices we use for finding and hiding caches (smartphones or handheld GPS devices) and for the most part, that's a GPX file.

Maybe it's just here, but one of the reasons so many went to faceboook from local websites is because a bunch didn't want to really discuss things. New folks mostly, ask for the fifth time "If I only drive a nail in this one tree, would it be okay?" , then get pissed when they hear the same answer. They don't wanna hear no. One of the last threads on a local site to me, a member said, "you couldn't talk to me like that on faceboook..". I said what he was talking about never happened (I was there. He wasn't.), and that he just made that up. - But my reply was, "So how do you ever hold actual conversations if everyone's always agreeing with you?" . The few times I ask a friend to show me what's going on with the faceboook, it's someone says something (usually about themselves...), with a line of submissives agreeing afterwards. We've yet to see "discussions" on anything related to the hobby at events unless it's a rare Geocaching 101-type event. A further area, we used to see more talking about a competing site more than this one ... at an event from this site. - A "respected" cacher too no less... Another in the same area talked more about their stock options than the hobby. We left early on both. One of the reasons I rarely log events anymore. Guilt by association maybe... A few states now, I'm not gonna bs and say even most members give two figs about the guidelines. I ask questions, often from threads here, but usually just ignored unless a low showing. Stats, " how I got my numbers" (that "all about me" thing again...), stats, "give me a hint", "we're doing (pick a cache name) later, and anyone who'd like can tag along" and stats, seem the norm, along with games, prizes, sometimes a potluck. Did I mentions stats are discussed a lot?

I dunno about the rest of the crew, but I'm sitting here watching Twilight Zone (talk about your anachronisms) on my Waaay Back Machine and putting off writing up a few more Contributing Buildings. For just the third or fourth time in my life I'm doing a historic district in which I have all the contributing buildings. Keith