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You could always log a Note with the intention of logging a legitimate Find after signing the Log. Hard to see how HQ would have an issue with a generic Note. Since my experience informs me that HQ usually only gets wind of these things when another User complains, maybe you should invite the person/people in your area that appear to have an issue with this practice to a video chat to talk it over and find some sort of solution. Zoom Happy Hours are becoming quite the thing in my area.

I disabled my cache last week, when I was surprised to see someone had visited it. This is NOT essential activity. Clearly everyone should err on the side of caution and not talk about what is "most likely" while having zero experience in epidemiology. Just stop this reckless behaviour, which is now criminal, at least in the UK. Personally I think it's poor that geocaching.com haven't just turned off the data feed.

If 10 DNFs isn't enough for a CO to self-check the cache, then it should be archived, unless it's a high D cache, in which case the NRA wouldn't really be appropriate either. The first step should be a NM to notify the CO that something might be wrong, not jump immediately to a reviewer with a suggested NRA. If no action is forthcoming from the CO, the next step is the NA. There's no need for a separate NRA log in this example because a mechanism exists and should work as it is supposed to but cachers don't want to file the correct logs to get this addressed. In this example you've provided (and assuming the NRA was in place), does that mean you would bypass the NM log (and suggest others do as well) and go directly to a NRA to initiate reviewer action on this cache? If so, then what does that say about the NM log? You've essentially rendered it irrelevant. Also, if the CO doesn't respond to this reviewer action, then the cache is archived. Basically you're asking for the reviewer to disable a cache that has no NM log (because a 10 consecutive DNF cache probably needs a CO check), see if the CO responds, and then archive the cache when they don't. And that's somehow a different process and result than the current NA log we have available now because the implication of the terminology is better and not used out of context? I'm all for changing the name of the log but I honestly can't think of how the process and possible results would differ from how they currently stand or do anything to address the issue of not using the proper logs for needed maintenance and/or reviewer action. I did and there's very little that addresses examples, only most people agreeing with the suggestion of a name change of the NA log to the NRA log. I suggested they keep both (in my initial reply) because there are some cases where immediate action/archival is needed (cache on private property without permission, for example) vs. just the normal progression of an unmaintained cache from NM to NRA. NRA makes much more sense because it applies across the board to every situation but since that hasn't happened, the NA is what we have so that's what we have to use. I still don't think there are any examples that would make sense for a community member to forego the NM log and proceed directly to a NRA log. Most examples (like the 10 consecutive DNFs) should be just as adequately addressed using what we have in place (NM then NA). The problem is that the community is hesitant to use them or refuses to use them. The NRA isn't needed if people file the correct logs and use the established process. The NRA apparently is needed when people choose not to file the correct logs and not use the established process. Creating or renaming a log that asks for reviewer action doesn't address the problem of people not using the correct log types. It doesn't change the process already in place, although if you're going to bypass the needed NM log (in the example you provide) to file the NRA log, then it completely changes the process and renders the NM log irrelevant. It only clarifies the implication of the log being used. This does nothing to address the root of the problem. It's because the community hasn't been "educated" or properly "refreshed" in their proper use. Now that the CHS and reviewers are apparently pro-actively seeking out caches like this particular example, the community doesn't feel like it's a needed action on our parts, despite the fact that it is. Some of it is related to the actions of GS, some of it is related to COs' reactions to NM/NA logs, and some of it is related to the community's hesitancy in their use. All this talk between Bruce and I about NA/NRA is completely irrelevant if the community just follows the protocols laid out for us and files the NM/NA logs and COs get over themselves and realize that it's not some personal attack but instead a plea for them to maintain their cache. They fail to maintain it and it's off the books, as it should be. Like Bruce, I wouldn't have taken action like you did but I would be just as frustrated at the lack of action by the community prior to you. I might have contacted the CO and/or written a note on the cache page but like some (but not others) I prefer to have firsthand knowledge and visit a cache before filing a NM log. I have no issues with following up later (I typically wait 4 weeks/30 days), if no action is taken by the CO, with a NA log. If I didn't file the NM log, I won't file a NA log because I'd prefer to have visited the cache to feel confident in my choice. I'm sure dprovan doesn't feel like that's needed but if a reviewer is going to take action (or is summoned to take action), then I believe they need as much firsthand information as they can get to help make their decision, not someone else acting, in essence, as a reviewer from afar. I don't think it's wrong what they do, although I'd not endorse their actions; I feel it's wrong for me based on how I choose to participate.

Well, that and the Court ordred Gag order, in place untill the trial is over prevents it anyway. That trial is both a circus and a nightmare, and I must admit that I -- who does not normally watch much TV -- am glued to the TV set almost every day, watching that progress of that federal trial on the cable channel. I cannot say any more here at this time, because I too was named in the gag order issued by the courts. i heard that PLATINUM MEMBERS are allowed to talk to the press about the trial. the down side is that they can only talk to Star Jones. Titanium Members get to talk to Geraldo. But the Black members don't have to talk to anyone if they don't want to. And it they do want to talk, they can talk to anyone they choose. My fantasy does not include Keystone, but I'd like to 'talk' to Brooke Burke.

As a RN, I can talk about 16 hour shifts all the time. We get that. It sucks, but its our reality, COVID-19 or not. Also consider, this is not a one size fits all situation. Our policies and protocols within the hospital change several times each day. Yesterday evening we separated a brand new baby from its PUI mother five minutes after birth. Today, we would not do that; they would stay together and mom would wear a mask while breastfeeding. I am 20 miles north of the first Washington state COVID-19 case in Snohomish County and 50 miles north of Seattle. I'm not being negligent. I'm avoiding stores, crowded areas, my nursing conferences have been cancelled, practicing social distancing, etc. I'm following the recommended guidelines AND caring for patients with inadequate PPE, not nearly enough supplies, etc. However, the fresh air part is recommended by State of Emergency declared by the Skagit County Health Department that recommends people getting outside. It's also recommended that kids spend two hours playing outdoors. People who are sick should self-isolate except to seek medical care. People at higher risk of severe illness should self-isolate now. This includes physical isolation from non-household family members, including grandchildren. People at higher risk include people over 60 years of age; people with underlying health conditions including heart disease, lung disease or diabetes; people with weakened immune systems; and pregnant women. Everyoneshould limit activity outside the home to essential activities only. However, outdoor activities such as walking, running, biking, and hiking are encouraged. If you go with another person, maintain 6 feet of distance. So, to answer your question, CITOs ARE good for you, if you are healthy.

I'd argue with your cause and effect order. In my area, at least, NAs were common until reviewers started taking action based on DNFs, and only then did people stop posting NAs. If it bothers you to search for something that isn't there, then geocaching isn't the game for you. There's always a first person to search for a cache that has gone missing. Nothing can change that, and I think it's detrimental to the game to pretend otherwise. From what I've seen, the reluctance to log DNFs is entirely cultural. All the serious geocachers in my area log DNFs when they can't find the cache. I've never noticed the casual geocachers being very shy about it, either, although I'm sure there are some that don't, and that doesn't really concern me. To be honest, I'm always a little puzzled when people from other places talk about it being common for people to not file their DNFs. Even with the reviewers swooping down on caches with a couple DNFs, everyone still seems it's more important to tell everyone else that they couldn't find it and not worry about how the reviewers will react. It's kinda sad you think there are people that can't laugh at themselves when their DNF comes between two easy find logs. If you think you know someone like that, you should definitely remind them that they're geocaching so they can enjoy themselves, not so they can compare themselves to other people. Failure is an every day occurrence in geocaching, so if someone finds it embarrassing, they're not going to have much fun in this game.

It seems you mean, if everyone used NAs as you would deem proper--which is rarely, and only when someone won't prop up or throw down a cache. This is ridiculous. I think everyone should use NAs as they deem proper. If I disagree with their use, we can talk about it, but it's not up to me to dictate what they do. Anyway, let's not talk about my personal foibles. I was responding to someone else that positing a correct way to use NAs. I took "correct" in the way that I would mean it, which is, "When you think the cache needs to be archived", but now that you bring it up, they may have meant, "When I think the cache needs to be archived".

Yep, absoulutely agree. Completely agree as well, but I think it misses the point of this thread, which is to talk about our *feelings* on the subject, and not based on any actual facts. So let's get back on topic and talk about how we feel about this new tool Light blue touchpaper. Stand well back

Yep, absoulutely agree. Completely agree as well, but I think it misses the point of this thread, which is to talk about our *feelings* on the subject, and not based on any actual facts. So let's get back on topic and talk about how we feel about this new tool

I'd suggest archiving the event after a few weeks or when everyone has logged they have attended. I believe this is automatically done by the site these days after a certain period of time elapses. Also, if your event is held at a park or other such venue, I'd strongly suggest making sure the site be cleaned and trash deposited in appropriate receptacles. Make sure all travel bugs have been picked up from tables. As for things to do after an event, you could stay and talk to people, find some caches, look for waymarks, place a cache, play a Wherigo cartridge, go for a hike, do chores, do other satisfying and filling activities, or put in more unpaid overtime at your job. Whatever you decide to do, make it worth your time. You only have one life, so live it.

Hi all, This is a little bit rant and a little bit call for help to see if anyone has any suggestions on improving iPhone compatibility. I developed my first cartridge in Earwigo. I had some problems initially with Garmin devices, but they were somewhat consistent and I was able to iron them out. iPhone players had tons of problems, though. I had 6 zones where a user could "Dig" with a shovel object, which, after 1-3 digging attempts would make an item appear in that zone. For iPhone users items wouldn't appear after digging, but they would get the message indicating they had already completed digging there. If they closed and restarted the cartridge, it would show up, but then a timed event would always fire causing their Flashlight item's Batteries to die, an event that should only trigger if the flashlight was left on for more than a specified time. I did a complete re-write of that section and it helped, but only slightly. Then, I imported it into Urwigo and rewrote all of the offending sections from scratch, using only Urwigo-implemented commands and no custom Lua code. It helped a little, but now gives messages about items turning up in the wrong zone. This is odd, because all of these dialogs have IF Zone X CONTAINS Player statements that should only make a dialog appear in a specific zone, and the zones are not at all close enough for the device to be confused about location. For my second cartridge, I wrote it from start to finish in Urwigo. It tests completely fine on Emulator, Android, and Garmin Oregon 450, and the iPhone we tested with. The FTF players had an iPhone4S and played through fine. STF was an Android, and had a crash at the end of the cartridge (not sure yet if cartridge/app/or phone crash) but was otherwise able to play through fine. Then, other players with different iOS devices, iPad 2, iPod touch with external GPS, and another iPhone (unsure of version) had issues. The first two go to the third zone where you have to talk to a character to continue, but hitting the 'Talk' command just took them back to the main cartridge screen, not even back to the character. The other person got stuck on 'Take'ing a ladder item. You see the ladder before you can take it, and after you talk to a character the first time, a hidden True/False variable is set to true indicating the player can take the ladder. Later, you have to use the ladder but remember to take it again. Now, the ONLY time this variable is touched is the first time you talk to the character, but somehow, either the variable was changed, or the IF condition to take the ladder was not evaluating properly and he was getting the dialog box if you try to take the ladder before you talked to the character. This doesn't make any sense as this should never, ever happen if you can take the ladder the first time (which he did.) I added an OnExit command for that zone to reset the variable to true there and hopefully that will work for him, but it makes no sense at all. I'm working on splitting up some commands with a lot of IF/ELSE conditions into more item commands by moving what was in an IF condition into its own command and activating/deactivating commands instead, but I'm concerned it will be a lot of work for naught, plus I have no idea why the ladder thing occurred. Any tips or suggestions? Thanks, George

Do you mean the GIFs are in view but they don't animate? Do you have an example? You have a ton of puzzle caches, and here's one of them with animated GIFS embedded in the page and hosted on Geocaching.com, and they are animating. If you have GIFs hosted on Geocaching.com and they aren't loading properly anymore, you may have to instead host them elsewhere. If the files are especially huge, you also need a suitable server and cache page visitors who have a fast connection or patience. The thread you linked to had a "9.1 MB GIF", and it's been 3 months without publication of that cache. If it's not part of the puzzle, it could be a static JPG and exist on the page just fine. Or it can be any kind of linked file that users are likely to be able to run. I've found that I can't talk people out of a way-cool (and ill-advised) "animated GIF idea", so I tend to just post what one may try, and watch them crash and burn .

There was an alternate Wherigo player for iOS, but you can't talk about it since it directly "competes" with Groundspeak's app. Fun with guidelines...

And yet they have repeatedly made business decisions that indicate otherwise. No, many players have repeatedly shown that they are unable or unwilling to take care and maintain cache quality, or cache owners have repeatedly shown that they don't care about their cache's quality. That is not Groundspeak. Please show Goundspeak's business decisions encourage "soggy film pots behind signs" in exchange for profits. Their community communications clearly advocate quality, fun, adventure, respect, community. How that plays out is entirely up to the player. Not Groundspeak. "Their community communications clearly advocate quality, fun, adventure, respect, community." Please explain how their implementation of mobile geocaching apps promotes "quality, fun, adventure, respect, community." I repeat: it's very easy to SAY anything. Their actions - the actual design of the site and the apps - speaks far louder. The touchy-feely email newsletters and blogs are meaningless when they don't even bother getting new users to confirm emails. Yep, my local council talks about how the teams who collect the rubbish and recycling are encouraged to clear up after themselves and put containers back where they found them. It doesn't mean I don't regularly need to complain that they left the place a mess and my recycling box went missing, again. The words talk a good game about how to be a responsible member of the caching community. The actions say something else, letting people with a track record of non-maintenance continue to publish new caches and allowing people to register without ever visiting the site and without ever providing an email address. The words talk of quality, fun, adventure. When so many film pots behind signs are published it's hard to see how the reality ties up with the talk. So when faced with a conflict between words and actions, I'll look at the actions. I'd have a real issue if they started grilling me about the nature of the container and approving/disapproving it based on that. It would add work, add a lot to time to the review process with probably at least one or two back-and-forth communications and would generally tick a lot of folks off. Some containers that are crappy in one place or environment may be the perfect choice in a totally different environment. I suspect Groundspeak is pretty hands-off for this reason. Best they can do is make suggestions and give examples...like they do in various parts of the GC site (for example).

And yet they have repeatedly made business decisions that indicate otherwise. No, many players have repeatedly shown that they are unable or unwilling to take care and maintain cache quality, or cache owners have repeatedly shown that they don't care about their cache's quality. That is not Groundspeak. Please show Goundspeak's business decisions encourage "soggy film pots behind signs" in exchange for profits. Their community communications clearly advocate quality, fun, adventure, respect, community. How that plays out is entirely up to the player. Not Groundspeak. "Their community communications clearly advocate quality, fun, adventure, respect, community." Please explain how their implementation of mobile geocaching apps promotes "quality, fun, adventure, respect, community." I repeat: it's very easy to SAY anything. Their actions - the actual design of the site and the apps - speaks far louder. The touchy-feely email newsletters and blogs are meaningless when they don't even bother getting new users to confirm emails. Yep, my local council talks about how the teams who collect the rubbish and recycling are encouraged to clear up after themselves and put containers back where they found them. It doesn't mean I don't regularly need to complain that they left the place a mess and my recycling box went missing, again. The words talk a good game about how to be a responsible member of the caching community. The actions say something else, letting people with a track record of non-maintenance continue to publish new caches and allowing people to register without ever visiting the site and without ever providing an email address. The words talk of quality, fun, adventure. When so many film pots behind signs are published it's hard to see how the reality ties up with the talk. So when faced with a conflict between words and actions, I'll look at the actions.

This was posted to the OSM list. Please track these users down - their is a link for the whole list - check if your name is on it? I see besem is on the most wanted list - I am guessing it is the same besem we know from geocaching. I have already sent him a pm but if you are in contact with him ask him to check out his OSM profile (if it is the same besem!) Thanks trev Talk-ZA, It hasn't been discussed here, but as some of you know OpenStreetMap is changing from the CC BY-SA license to the Open Database License (ODbL) starting on Sunday. Contributors who signed up before 12th May 2010 need to agree otherwise the project will be unable to use their contributors and their contributions will be removed from the map next week. Contributors who signed after 12th May 2010 have already agreed while signing up. ;-) South Africa has very good acceptance rates of over 98% for the map data. BUT! We need to track down the last few users and ask them to Agree to the new license by logging-in and clicking agree (or decline if they wish). Please help track down: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Jan%20de%20Jager - Jan de Jager - Johannesburg http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/EDWARD%20J - Northern Suburbs in Cape Town http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Carel%20Olivier - Port Elizabeth http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Gawie - Small bits all over SA http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/bhonermann - JHB http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kevnewman - JHB http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/PhilipK (Case Sensitive username) - JHB http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/besem - Pretoria The full list: http://odbl.poole.ch/south_africa_and_lesotho-20120213-20120328-poly.html ** Please check the list if you have multiple accounts ** If the user's email address has changed and they are unable to login/reset password please ask them to email webmaster@openstreetmap.org with details and we'll get it fixed up ASAP. At the moment we'd lose a few areas in north Cape Town and south Johannesburg / Soweto. See: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe&lon=25.06787&lat=-28.39720&zoom=6 Regards Grant _______________________________________________ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za

I prefer both. I use "Waze" to route me to a cache area (or to hunt for a parking place for individual caches), and it cannot be pre-loaded, so it works only in an online phone and fails miserably at times. So my toughest challenge is mitigating the problems when the phone Apps fail... preparing in case they fail... in case there's a bug this month that has broken some App function. I have an old Garmin Nuvi ready to route me home, just in case. So it's more like both, plus a backup. But I have a Garmin Oregon 750. The phone can talk to it. So that setup is fluid. It's one or the other or a combination of phone and GPS. The deciding factor is just how solid, or how borderline, or how gone, the data signal is. Which you don't always know in advance.

Wow. Thanks for that. All this talk about "5G" with every carrier, and the area I'd think would be most up on this would be silicon valley.

G'Day My Fellow Geocachers, How are you doing on this fine day? I’m DARKSIDEDAN aka Daniel from Canberra, Australia. I love discovering Geocaches, Trackable items and collecting Pathtags. I hope that you all enjoy Geocaching as much as I do. For me geocaching is a way of life. When I am not Geocaching, I am thinking of Geocaching. Here is a little information about me. I have been geocaching since 2015. At the time of this post I have over 6850 finds plus 340 hides. I am the creator of the “Duck Dip” Lab Cache that won 2nd Place for the Australian Capital Territory in the State Vs State - Battle of the Lab Caches at the OzGeoMuster - The Gong Mega 2019 in Wollongong, Australia (GC7N7ZC). Now let’s talk Pathtags. Currently I have over 8000 Pathtags in my collection plus about 500 Etagz. I currently have three of my own Pathtags (45762 / 46950 / 47696) with another one in the works. https://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=2a2a54fb-66e6-4b02-ad79-fae27aa04984

The issue to me is not whether or not it matters to you; I don't care about that. What puzzles me is why it is so important that to you everyone else knows and admires your stats. The FTF game would be great if people kept track for themselves; it would even be fine if there was a group that competed with each other in a private forum. It's the excessive bragging and taunting about stats in the logs for the caches and main geocaching forum that I find so obnoxious. Actually, let me re-phrase that: the bragging and taunting are obnoxious in cache logs; here in the forums they are mostly embarrassingly pitiable. The OP asked a question, quite frankly the response "who cares" I find ignorant and the comment "Just because others do doesn't mean it matters" I find very self centered. Some people are very competitive and that should be OK and just because you or others do not care about something I find putting those that do down obnoxious. What puzzles me is the need to reply to someones question with "who cares"! While the OP has every right to start threads like this one (barring word from Groundspeak to the contrary), the reaction you are seeing is not so much because of the obvious question, but because those of us that have been around for a while have learned that the OP will use any pretense to call attention to his FTF count, and some have grown weary of what they see as poorly camouflaged boasting. Regardless of who the OP is or what he has done both "who cares" and "Just because others do doesn't mean it matters" are insulting to not just the OP, but to others that may see the FTF game as a competition. You guys are calling out the OP but some are behaving much much worse, just my 2¢. On a side note, you'd better throw in your 2¢ worth soon as up here in Canada we won't have then around much longer. That's my quote. It doesn't matter. Not to me at least, and since this is a public forum, I'm entitled to post my opinion. So are you. So are tons of other people. I'm sorry you don't agree with my opinion. I stand by the opinion that it doesn't matter. If we're going to talk about what's insulting, let's talk about CO's who put out garbage containers in garbage locations and then leave them there: as garbage. Or we can talk about folks who show up in the forums and ask for a discussion, then throw a fit when an opinion that's different from theirs shows up for the party. Or we can talk about the people who drive like maniacs for a FTF, putting people in danger with their horrible road antics seeming inability to pay attention to anything but the film can that's so important. Shall I continue?

Pen doesn't work (empty, broken, lost in the woods). The rusty can won't open. The logbook is wet and I don't want to touch it. ... In each of the cases I have the cache in my hand and have successfully fulfilled the task given by the owner. Why do you have a problem with me not signing the log? Only because of the rules? (I don't talk about "seen it up in the tree and could not reach it" or "could not open the trick lock" or ....)

I'm trying to get a good long streak of consectutive days with finds going (currently at 51). As a freelance photographer one of the things I get to do is talk on cruise ships, which is fantastic for increasing the number of countries I have cached in but the 'sea days' do make it difficult to get a really big streak of consectutive days caching. I know there used to be such things as 'locationless' caches, but are there any caches left that could be legitimately logged on a day when I am in the middle of the ocean? I did wonder about 'banking' some earthcaches - visiting the locations, just photographing them in detail and then only answering the questions when I'm out at sea. But that feels like cheating. Thanks Ian.

If people are upset if I consider something as cheating, good, bad, etc (insert whatever you wish) I cannot change that. I'm not willing to change my opinion. It is definitely not Groundspeak who make rules for what I regard as whatever. My personal opinion is my opinion and does not contradict the wish for a respectful treatment of one another. Groundspeak is not even a authority on geocaching as a whole and even less on all aspects of life or my opinion. The situation would change if I acted against Groundspeak's rules (for geocaches and the forum) driven by my personal opinions, but that never has been the case. I wonder why you always talk about the guidelines of gc.com when it is pretty clear that what Team Microdot, myself and others have in mind is nothing the guidelines talk about. A last time: What I regard as cheating is not tied to geocaching and even less to a written rule set. An advanced geocaching site is neither something I'd be interested in nor would it change my opinion what I classify as cheating.

How do you know the other cacher's "better coordinates" are "spot on"? How could your coordinates be typically 80 feet off and you not know there's a problem until you hide a cache? Many GPSs have magnetic compass sensors which you can calibrate to see better compass directions. You don't calibrate coordinates. Can you get together with the other cacher and get some pointers? There seems to be a disconnect where you're having trouble with coordinates. Maybe entering them, or maybe with some setting that could be changed. I try to talk people out of the "Waypoint Averaging" thing. It's best used for specific purposes, and way beyond what is required for "geocaching". It requires a definite plan, a lot of time, and visits to the same spot in various weather conditions, times of day, and seasons. After all that work, all you get is an average of waypoints (go figure). Instead, walk to your chosen waypoint (the cache hiding spot), stand there for a while, take some snapshots (save some waypoints), walk a few yards away, return and see which snapshot is closest. Use those coordinates for the cache. Takes 10 minutes. When you return to place the container, check that selected snapshot again, and see if it's still fine. If so, submit the cache page.

I think it's OT, but I kinda agree, though I feel even having the find count on your profile doesn't mean much to many folks. By talk at events, all those graphs, badges, and animations added-on are wasted on most of us here. We remember there was a lengthy period where we'd time-out before all that carp finally loaded. They can look at your stats page if they're that interested (if not already "compared" to on a third-party site)... At a mega event once, before they even asked who I was (the cord was buggin' my neck...), a Lackey asked what my find count was. - So it's possible I guess that "points", no matter how they came by them (and we've seen some examples...) do matter to some.