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or and I can prove it.) My very first hunt with two of my kids was a complete failure. The terrain was worse than we were led to expect and we never did find the cache. The reason: Cacher left the wrong coordinates (confirmed and corrected by cacher.) Talk about leaving a bad taste in your mouth! Yeah, the cacher may get a reading, but what if his accuracy is really low because of a lack of acquisitions. I'd even check my coordinates against a topo map to make sure they were correct.

I got through on the first call. Time on hold less than 10 min. In fact I had another call come in for me on another line and put them on hold(thinking it would be a long time as I've heard talk of) and when I came back HE was waiting for me. They were very nice and did not hesitate to say send it in. They also said send in the ext. ant. And gave me their FED-EX shippers #. I called 8:00 am their time on Tuesday. And another trick I use when its hard to get through is............ When it says press 1 for???? Don't press any key. This way it sends you through right away like someone with a rotary dial. Try it it works most times.

I'm a 40 year old mother of 4. For the past year or so I've been looking for an activity that my entire family can do together. It's not easy to find something that fits that need for ages ranging from 8 to 45. When I first read about geocaching, it sounded like a neat idea, but I didn't realize how much my kids would enjoy it. Now we spend 1 or 2 weekends a month hunting caches in our area. We have been to parks that we have always heard about, or driven by, but never had a "reason" to stop and see. We've found a real great playground in Walton, KY (Picnic in the park cache), learned a lot about the first settlers in our area (Pioneers Honor cache), and discovered an amazing view of our city from Devou Park in KY (Cinti Vista cache). This past week while on vacation in KY we actually saw a bald eagle at Cave Run Lake because we were out hiking for a cache (Daniel Boone #2). And if it hadn't been for looking for the cache we would never have been on the trail, much less stopped at the lake. My kids have learned to hike responsibly (we "cache in and trash out"), seen numerous animals (deer, turtle, fox, etc), and this is one family activity, that while being good for us, they actually enjoy. An added benefit is that I've found that on those hikes we actually spend a lot of time talking to each other. I've learned a lot about whats really going on at school, with friends, etc since we started geocaching. Also this is a sport where skill level doesn't have anything to do with age. Often the kids figure out where the cache is before the adults do. We've also placed some caches, and the kids have learned quite a bit about responsiblity with checking on them, replacing worn out or soaked logs, cameras that have been used up, etc. We talk about where to place our caches so that there is minimal impact to the environment, and will periodically move our caches if it looks like a trail is being worn to them. I'd like to think that if we go at this responsibly the BLM will see this for what it is - a wholesome family activity that gets people to enjoy (often) less well know portions of our public park system. I sure know I'm not sure what we'd be able to replace this with if we couln't do it anymore.

You've been trying to get on Car Talk for years, and the closest you've gotten is this week, when you very well might get on the show (find out tomorrow). What is my question? My tires are just about due for a replacement, and I need to know what kind to buy, since I've been driving all over the place since I've picked up this new hobby called geocaching. [This message has been edited by ClayJar (edited 07 August 2001).]

You've been trying to get on Car Talk for years, and the closest you've gotten is this week, when you very well might get on the show (find out tomorrow). What is my question? My tires are just about due for a replacement, and I need to know what kind to buy, since I've been driving all over the place since I've picked up this new hobby called geocaching. [This message has been edited by ClayJar (edited 07 August 2001).]

In the easygps preferences, make sure that you have the GPS type set to the correct model for your GPSR. Also, the fact that you can see NMEA data in hyperterminal means that the receive data and ground wires in your home made cable are okay, but it doesn't prove that transmit data works. I also have a home made cable, and it sometimes gives me problems. Every time I start to use easygps with that cable, the first step I take after starting the program is to click on GPS Version info which is under the GPS menu. This option talks to the GPSR and asks it to transmit back its make, model, and software version number. If this step works, then I know for a fact that the GPSR and easygps can talk to each other. WHen it doesn't work, I know my cable needs reseating...

Don't know about the Boy Scouts, but the Girl Scouts have a badge called "Finding Your Way". When my troop earned it this June we added in how to use a GPS after we finished up the compass work. After we had that down we went out and located a cache, and then placed our own. From my perspective, as a leader, while the badge work taught them some really good skills (map reading & compass work), the geocaching made it really fun - and they now had to use the map reading and compass work in addition to the GPS. On top of it all they've really enjoyed following their cache ("East of the Fork and West of the Spoon") this summer. It's made for lots of talk.

I'm trying to figure out why these topics are 95% thoughtful discourse and 5% generalization and namecalling. If I spit in your face would you want to talk to me? Or compromise? Come on. to: bbnot2busy I prefer to keep the toys in the caches. That's what a geocache is and should be. I don't think it's the size of the cache that is the issue but the existence of one. to: navdog Not sure what a permit would mean. That's what compromises are all about. I would expect optimally would be to speak with a land manager to find out the "safe areas" and hide them there. Jeremy

quote:Originally posted by mav:...when you use a MOMS Club event to teach all your friend how to read a GPS so they can convince their husbands to try it! ...when you wish they gave extra bonus ratings to caching with a 27 pound baby on your back and a 2.5 year old toddler in tow ;-) (Just remember my 2's & 3's are YOUR 3's & 4's heehee!) mav Stop talking about me! I did just that at the last meeting of my MOMS club playgroup and am thinking of selecting a geocaching walk in the local park (where we plan to plant a cache soon) for one of the future playgroup days that is my pick! You know, I fully expected hubby to chat with some of the other dads at or Summer Bash this past Saturday and talk GeoCaching up, but instead he listened in on an aviation discussion! Will be inviting one of the playgroup families along for a hunt soon anyway because I was sure it was right up her alley, and when I told her about it her eyes just lit up! And in my case, it's the 2-year-old that's 27 pounds, and the second won't be born for several months yet! The toddler loves to go "treasure hunting!" T-storm [This message has been edited by T-storm (edited 06 August 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by mav:...when you use a MOMS Club event to teach all your friend how to read a GPS so they can convince their husbands to try it! ...when you wish they gave extra bonus ratings to caching with a 27 pound baby on your back and a 2.5 year old toddler in tow ;-) (Just remember my 2's & 3's are YOUR 3's & 4's heehee!) mav Stop talking about me! I did just that at the last meeting of my MOMS club playgroup and am thinking of selecting a geocaching walk in the local park (where we plan to plant a cache soon) for one of the future playgroup days that is my pick! You know, I fully expected hubby to chat with some of the other dads at or Summer Bash this past Saturday and talk GeoCaching up, but instead he listened in on an aviation discussion! Will be inviting one of the playgroup families along for a hunt soon anyway because I was sure it was right up her alley, and when I told her about it her eyes just lit up! And in my case, it's the 2-year-old that's 27 pounds, and the second won't be born for several months yet! The toddler loves to go "treasure hunting!" T-storm [This message has been edited by T-storm (edited 06 August 2001).]

Come on guys, you're getting too specific on me here The example I presented was just that, an example. If it is such a unique example, tell me that and I'll find something else to talk about. I just figured that maybe this was an issue that other folks had run into and I was trying to offer a possible solution. I'd be surprised if any of you experienced seekers haven't run into caches rated the same that had very different time requirements.

Come on guys, you're getting too specific on me here The example I presented was just that, an example. If it is such a unique example, tell me that and I'll find something else to talk about. I just figured that maybe this was an issue that other folks had run into and I was trying to offer a possible solution. I'd be surprised if any of you experienced seekers haven't run into caches rated the same that had very different time requirements.

There are the varied types that you talk about, just not as common. Hide it and they'll come to find it!

All this fancy talk and quoting studies... I read the reports and learned some things that I wouldn't have known before, but none of it is really necessary. What I mean is this. The question a conscientious cache placer should really ask is: "Did I make a reasonable effort to ensure that my coordinates are accurate enough for the average geocacher to find my cache?" In my mind, this means: 1. Make sure that you have good satellite geometry. You want at least 4 satellites locked in. You want those satellites to be dispersed across the sky, not all directly above you. If you don't have good geometry, you should try another day. If that isn't an option, make a descriptive hint and state in the description that you are concerned about the coordinates. 2. Take several readings. Stand over the cache for a few minutes then record the coordinates. Walk away from the cache. I think 100-150' should do fine. Walk back to the cache. Stand over the cache for a few minutes then record the coordinates. Repeat a few times. 3. Arrive at a median value or an average. In the case of a median value, try Jeremy's "Shotgun" method. For an average, just average the coordinates. 4. Test your coordinates. Come back on another day and act like a geocacher. Enter your coordinates as a waypoint and see how close you can get to it. This is what I would call "Quality control". 5. Monitor your cache. Keep an eye on the logs. If the coordinates aren't good, you'll see it in the logs. Other cachers will occasionally post what they feel the best coordinates are. [Out, out dadgum typos!] [This message has been edited by PharoaH (edited 06 August 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by Markwell:OK - now that we've done all the esoteric talk and discussed various theories and empirical results, what would either Kerry or Brokenwing have done with the seven different readings I received when I placed that cache? Still haven't posted it. Markwell, it's sort of a difficult question to answer not knowing under what conditions and what the situation actually looked like at the time. Basically (as I see it) jotting down or averaging a few readings over a short period of time hasn't given the system time to change any of its characterics. If it's a really bad location then it's certainly going to be better to have a few readings but spaced over a longer time peiod. The situation this afternoon could be entirely different (for better or worse) than say what it was this morning. 2 periods doesn't have much of a chance in deciding which group is right or wrong. 3 could help but of course the more the better based on simply stats. If using a handheld generally always best to face the equator, no satellites 40-45 degees either side of the poles up to about 45 degrees. Cheers, Kerry.

Thanks... But I was realizing - these could be fields in the hide a geocache form - for permission, who did you talk to, phone number, did you have to explain the process or were they aware of it, did you get it in writing, do they want requests written, faxed, mailed, what was the fax or address, and one that irks me: what is your confidence level that this person really has the authority to make the decision! Being extremely jaded to government, there is someone else waiting in the wings wanting to show their political / beaurocratic muscle to say no. knowing that person's confidence level was low might spawn someone else to look elsewhere for permission and see if it winds back at the first person. Either way, more effort than I feel we should have to go through to use a public park... but that is the bloat in gov't. Thanks for the efforts and yeah, unfortunately, it seems like this is very much needed.

If someone is interested in Caching at Smithville Lake, I have a contact there. We are the dive team for Clay CO. Parks and they run the lake. I would be happy to talk to the Director about just telling the gate people that they are caching. Let me know. I will check it out. Ryan

quote:Originally posted by Markwell:OK - now that we've done all the esoteric talk and discussed various theories and empirical results, what would either Kerry or Brokenwing have done with the seven different readings I received when I placed that cache? Still haven't posted it. I think you do exactly as you listed in your first post. It is certainly acceptable to throw out any outliers and average the remaining coordinates. Alternately, just average them all. That is the beauty of averaging. Either way, your going to be pretty close. Jeremy's method also works well, and can be pretty accurate. The concept is the same, it discounts any wild readings. Thanks, brokenwing ---- Eschew obfuscation!

Well? You know, where people subscribe to a list and all post to it-- and everyone gets a copy of what others spout on about. Usually it's a bit less public than a website forum is-- and it might be a place for people to vent a bit more privately on issues they have. I belong to a mailing list which has about 70-100 subscribers-- we all talk about old Silver Age comic books! Good fun, but private. It's a nice balance to the public forums out on the web like this one. But I have no idea how to start one up.

OK - now that we've done all the esoteric talk and discussed various theories and empirical results, what would either Kerry or Brokenwing have done with the seven different readings I received when I placed that cache? Still haven't posted it.

Anyone in the greater Orlando area intersted in getting together to talk shop, find/place caches, disucss GPS units. Once a month or so at a local resteraunt. ------------------

Oooooh, goodie! I've got some new people lined up to go geocaching and hiking with me. Myself and another Louisiana cacher or two are discussing LAGG-1 for sometime late August or more likely September, so if anyone wants to put their two cents in, post away. (I'm hoping to try the really cool sounding cache SW of Alex this weekend... and it's only about 1.3 miles from an as-of-yet unvisted confluence, IIRC... I hope I can talk J^2 into trying that, too.) [This message has been edited by ClayJar (edited 02 August 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by mfratto:and just for the record, this "sport" reeks of commericalism -- think of the money that goes into doing it. this is not a money-free sport -- at the very least, you need two (gps and computer) and possible three (car/truck) and maybe more very expensive pieces of equiptment to "play." Then there is buying all the fun stuff, shirts, hats, etc. And there is nothing wrong with it, but there isn't much these days that isn't commercial -- unless you mean a walk through with woods -- with no gps, no cache, and no other "goodies." For some of us, when we talk about "commercialism" in this forum we don't mean the money we spend to PLAY the sport. we are talking about the caches that are commercial. Big difference. By your definition, everything about our lives is commercial. That's not what we mean.

quote:Originally posted by mfratto:and just for the record, this "sport" reeks of commericalism -- think of the money that goes into doing it. this is not a money-free sport -- at the very least, you need two (gps and computer) and possible three (car/truck) and maybe more very expensive pieces of equiptment to "play." Then there is buying all the fun stuff, shirts, hats, etc. And there is nothing wrong with it, but there isn't much these days that isn't commercial -- unless you mean a walk through with woods -- with no gps, no cache, and no other "goodies." For some of us, when we talk about "commercialism" in this forum we don't mean the money we spend to PLAY the sport. we are talking about the caches that are commercial. Big difference. By your definition, everything about our lives is commercial. That's not what we mean.

I should also add here that my first cache has been found by the park rangers... From what I'm told they signed the log book and replaced the cache. I would like to talk to them about it and I certainly will when I get back there (3 1/2 hours away).. I am somewhat embarrassed that I did not ask for permission prior but feel it would be best to admit my haste and thank them for their acceptance. In general it's so hard to get addresses and phone numbers of contact people though. I have tried emailing the state parks service and they refered me to another webpage that looped me back to them. Ttepee