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I had the bizarre experience yesterday of having a cache removed by state park authorities as I was going to get it. They passed me on the way in and further down the trail I saw them go into the woods looking around the area the GPS was pointing me to. As I got within a couple hundred feet I saw them leaving the other way (it was a loop trail) with the cache. I made my way back around to the car realizing I had a big geocaching.com static cling sign on the back window. I decided to go to the park office to see what was going on. I got to the office and had a long talk with the site manager (I think. He was high level.) and a conservation police officer. 1. They were not happy that someone had placed the cache on park property without their knowledge or permission. They had several legitimate concerns, including many that we have discussed in relation to federal land. What a weirdo might put in the cache, injuries to people searching for caches in off trail areas, various concerns related to Sept. 11 and increased security worries since then, the issue of abandoned property, non-geocachers finding them leading to bomb squad calls, etc. 2. They did not object to geocaching in general, just the way it had been done there. We went over several ideas such as virtual caches, caches where a marker is hidden that directs you to the park office for the container, and clear containers that are hidden with the permission of park officials. They seemed quite receptive to these ideas. 3. It sounded like news of this was heading to the state-wide level so many caches are now in danger of being removed without notice. Most caches in this state are on state property. (State parks, forests, fish and wildlife areas, etc.) I would strongly suggest that you get in touch with whoever runs the land that your cache is on if you did not get permission when you placed your cache. If you don't want to do that, you should consider archiving and picking up your cache before someone confiscates it for you. 4. If we go at this the wrong way, we could easily end up like North Carolina, with geocaching banned in state parks. This would certainly not help our attempts to use federal lands either. If we go at this the right way, we make the job of state parks easier, give ourselves a good name (especially if we are caught picking up trash), and help our case with federal lands. We will lose badly if we try to go head to head with the state. 5. I told them I would spread the word. I hope you will help me with this. You must get permission to hide on any state property. Do NOT assume that it is OK because other people have hidden caches there. Get permission for every cache! 6. Let's keep level heads here. Nothing good will happen if we start bi**hing and moaning at the parks, park system, or park employees. Keep discussions and actions constructive. 7. They have found the website. There is no way to sneak around them so don't try. They will probably be quite stunned when they see just how many there are. rdw [This message has been edited by rdwatson78 (edited 16 October 2001).]

I had the bizarre experience yesterday of having a cache removed by state park authorities as I was going to get it. They passed me on the way in and further down the trail I saw them go into the woods looking around the area the GPS was pointing me to. As I got within a couple hundred feet I saw them leaving the other way (it was a loop trail) with the cache. I made my way back around to the car realizing I had a big geocaching.com static cling sign on the back window. I decided to go to the park office to see what was going on. I got to the office and had a long talk with the site manager (I think. He was high level.) and a conservation police officer. 1. They were not happy that someone had placed the cache on park property without their knowledge or permission. They had several legitimate concerns, including many that we have discussed in relation to federal land. What a weirdo might put in the cache, injuries to people searching for caches in off trail areas, various concerns related to Sept. 11 and increased security worries since then, the issue of abandoned property, non-geocachers finding them leading to bomb squad calls, etc. 2. They did not object to geocaching in general, just the way it had been done there. We went over several ideas such as virtual caches, caches where a marker is hidden that directs you to the park office for the container, and clear containers that are hidden with the permission of park officials. They seemed quite receptive to these ideas. 3. It sounded like news of this was heading to the state-wide level so many caches are now in danger of being removed without notice. Most caches in this state are on state property. (State parks, forests, fish and wildlife areas, etc.) I would strongly suggest that you get in touch with whoever runs the land that your cache is on if you did not get permission when you placed your cache. If you don't want to do that, you should consider archiving and picking up your cache before someone confiscates it for you. 4. If we go at this the wrong way, we could easily end up like North Carolina, with geocaching banned in state parks. This would certainly not help our attempts to use federal lands either. If we go at this the right way, we make the job of state parks easier, give ourselves a good name (especially if we are caught picking up trash), and help our case with federal lands. We will lose badly if we try to go head to head with the state. 5. I told them I would spread the word. I hope you will help me with this. You must get permission to hide on any state property. Do NOT assume that it is OK because other people have hidden caches there. Get permission for every cache! 6. Let's keep level heads here. Nothing good will happen if we start bi**hing and moaning at the parks, park system, or park employees. Keep discussions and actions constructive. 7. They have found the website. There is no way to sneak around them so don't try. They will probably be quite stunned when they see just how many there are. rdw [This message has been edited by rdwatson78 (edited 16 October 2001).]

Not in my town! Here in Syracuse, NY, we just had a big article published in the newspaper, complete with sidebar story on the GPS system, and color photos. The number of automatated emails I get from cache logs being submitted for my caches has jumped, and the number of new players logging caches all over this area has jumped up as well. A little bit of good press has a noticeable impact. You have to remember, there are lots of people who own GPS units, but who haven't found anything fun to do with them yet. They use them as a tool for travel, hunting, fishing, boating, etc., but not to have fun, especially with their kids. If your local newspaper hasn't yet covered geocaching, go talk to them, and offer your assistance for background information and a free lesson. I even went so far as to lend an eTrek GPS to the writer, so he could try geocaching with his boys -- that was after he first got a private lesson with three local players. It may not be easy to get the newspapers attention, but if you call ahead for an appointment, and take along copies of the stories linked from geocaching.com's homepage in the "Geocaching in the News" section, ought to pay attetion to that! Anton [This message has been edited by Anton (edited 16 October 2001).]

I always seem to chime in when there is an enviromental point to be made, not that I am a fanatic. But keeping cache container sizes to a minimum may help in the perception of the sport by cetain agencies and individuals. Asking a Park representitive about placing a cache with a five gallon bucket in your hand or a small microcache container may make a difference in their response. Here is an example of a microcache I visited last week that still has a trading theme but is very simple and clever. Tiny by Technician Also, there was some talk about having a "Featured caches of the month" in an earlier thread. Having a cache like this and other unique caching ideas featured would benefit other cachers in different areas who might want to do something similar or like the idea or percption of a low impact cache. [This message has been edited by navdog (edited 15 October 2001).]

I think you have teken the correct first step - talk to them about it. You could merge into a large barrel of monkeys, what could be more fun? :^) Or you could arrange to make your calling cards slightly different - you use only blue for example and they use only red ones. Or you could switch to bananas to feed their monkeys. It could be kind of a competition/game inside the game to get to caches first.

Although I use (and love) the geocache rating system, I am not sure if I should change the answer to one of my terrain questions. As is, the cache is rated a 4 because it doesn't *require* specialized equipment. The easiest route to the area will be over the back of a ridge and down the other side onto the top of some large rock formations. There are many small trails leading down/around through the rocks. I am NOT a rock climber; however, due to a good many leaves and pine needles which is making some places a little tricky, I stopped by the local outdoor store to talk to them. I told them what I was doing and where I was doing it, explained I was not a climber and didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars on gear, but wanted to be safe in what I was doing. They recommended a rope and told me how to use it properly without any harness or hardware. I am going to follow their recommendations for my own safety, even though it would be *possible* without doing so. Should I go ahead and consider this as *requiring* specialized equipment lest some bonehead go out and scramble to his death? I am leaning towards this as I think it is better to rate a cache on the higher side if there is any question. Just wanted to get some other opinions. ------------------ Greg N39°54.705' W077°33.137' My geocaching page [This message has been edited by gnbrotz (edited 16 October 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by supertech: First - I am not going to participate in a platform war. Well said. I'm all for comparing receivers, but in the end it all boils down to preferences and opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own. (I have Garminite friends, and apparently they have at least one Magellanite friend, since they still talk to me. )

quote:Originally posted by supertech: First - I am not going to participate in a platform war. Well said. I'm all for comparing receivers, but in the end it all boils down to preferences and opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own. (I have Garminite friends, and apparently they have at least one Magellanite friend, since they still talk to me. )

I used to prefer mapquest until I found mapsonus.com Talk about KOOL!!! nice maps, better searches PLUS you can set it to show LONG/LAT 'on click'

I used to prefer mapquest until I found mapsonus.com Talk about KOOL!!! nice maps, better searches PLUS you can set it to show LONG/LAT 'on click'

quote:Originally posted by mrgigabyte:I am expecting my first order to arrive any day now. Did you order through the web site or did you talk to him directly? I've sent a few emails but didn't get any response... :-( Gilles

Here's a thought... a minicache attached by a magnet or velcro, under the shelf of one of those drive-up pay phones you see in Interstate highway rest stops! Talk about TERRAIN = 0.01! ------------------ Interested in Geocaching in the state of Georgia? Visit the Georgia Geocachers Association at http://gageocaching.tripod.com

quote:Originally posted by ClayJar:... when science types talk about accuracy, they are generally talking about averages. Well, only if they state it as the average accuracy. Accuracy is really how close something is to the actual thing (coordinate, voltage, or bulls eye). In the case of the archer ClayJar mentioned, his average accuracy might mathematically add up to zero but his shooting is terrible. (This is another example where averages really are not all that good). The root-mean-square of the accuracy would really be a better measurement of the archer's shooting. As for logscaler asking about measurements at different times, I would think the satellite positions would be rather random at the same time of any day. So a measurement at 8 AM one day might use a different mix of satellites than a measurement at 8 AM another day. Lou C

LOL - tell me about rain - just got back from a night-time visit to "Border Crossing" - talk about dark & wet - if it was any darker it'd be darker than pitch black, and any wetter and it'd be under water

Geeshhh! I wonder if he would go back periodically to check the status of his 600+ "doggie doo" waypoints. What waypoint symbol would you use? Did he use a "log" book? About the only good thing would be knowing where not to step. Maybe Jeremy could talk to the guy and have him do a demonstration at our annual geocaching convention. Could you imagine being on that jury, just think of the fun, video! probably some kind of powerpoint presentation, not a dry eye in the court room. [This message has been edited by Fotogg (edited 07 October 2001).]

Interesting, Kerry. So let me see if I understand this. "Repeatable accuracy" is basically the overall precision of the entire Global Positioning System (taking into consideration various receivers at various times under various possible conditions), while "precision" would generally be applied to a single GPS receiver taking multiple measurements of a certain location? (As for Lou C's question about high accuracy and low precision, when science types talk about accuracy, they are generally talking about averages. For an example of low precision but high accuracy, there's the joke about a scientist practicing his archery: His first shot just hit the top of the target. He corrected for his second shot, but it hit right of the bull's eye, and his third hit on the left. He pulled back and let the fourth arrow fly, and as it just hit the bottom of the target, he jumped in the air and ecstatically shouted, "Wow! A Bull's eye!")

You want to talk confused? I've had my Magellan Tracker for almost a year now, and I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "just enough knowledge to make me dangerous..." My question would be, I want to set a pre-set course...look at a map and say..this is where I want to be..set the coordinates..and get there (without having to go thru the swamp btw.. ) I can dowload from easygps. But it won't let me download from hunt 'n map.

You want to talk confused? I've had my Magellan Tracker for almost a year now, and I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "just enough knowledge to make me dangerous..." My question would be, I want to set a pre-set course...look at a map and say..this is where I want to be..set the coordinates..and get there (without having to go thru the swamp btw.. ) I can dowload from easygps. But it won't let me download from hunt 'n map.

I agree, re: opening homes, etc. Last June I posted here that I would be doing a "Super Cache Hunt" and invited any who wanted to come along to do so. I had three join me, one of whom was a newer cacher. We have had a few great experiences together, and I look forward to more. There is always the chance of getting a "wierdo" that you may not particularly choose as a "friend" but my experience so far has been that everyone is nice, decent, and considerate. I think I could put up with anyone I have met through caching for a day and a night. And there are so many things to talk about. I have had several cachers in my home for various reasons, and gone camping with them, and had cookouts with them, and without exception they have all been delightful to meet. I find that typically when you get two cachers together, neither of them will shut up until they both fall asleep, which is a long time coming, also. Strange thing, this hobby.

I agree, re: opening homes, etc. Last June I posted here that I would be doing a "Super Cache Hunt" and invited any who wanted to come along to do so. I had three join me, one of whom was a newer cacher. We have had a few great experiences together, and I look forward to more. There is always the chance of getting a "wierdo" that you may not particularly choose as a "friend" but my experience so far has been that everyone is nice, decent, and considerate. I think I could put up with anyone I have met through caching for a day and a night. And there are so many things to talk about. I have had several cachers in my home for various reasons, and gone camping with them, and had cookouts with them, and without exception they have all been delightful to meet. I find that typically when you get two cachers together, neither of them will shut up until they both fall asleep, which is a long time coming, also. Strange thing, this hobby.

Sounds interesting! I can't be there, but I hope some geocachers turn out and talk it up with some of the TPWD folks. Nothing like making good contacts. And from efforts to get rules and laws in place that allow for and protect pet ferrets, I can tell you there's nothing like having a written rule or policy from the state office of a department and contacts in the department willing to reiterate such rules to smooth things at the local level. I hope this is a good indicator in getting our sport/hobby/activity smiled upon by the Texas parks system! T-storm

quote:Originally posted by martinp13:If I take a random item from one cache, and put it in the next cache I find, do I get an extra point for the "hitchhiker"? I sure HOPE not, cuz that's plain silly. Be sure to read ALL THE WAY down this post. The last paragraph is crucial... I think I can speak for arffer 'cause he and I have talked in the past, and he doesn't really want to change your minds anymore (not that I would be much more successful). First, what you call hitchhiking caches, I call traveling caches (just a difference in names). "Hitchhikers" have been specifically listed as the little doo-dads that go cache to cache. Of course there's a difference. Likewise, there's a definite difference between taking a random item from a cache and moving it into another cache, and a moving a purposeful hitchhiker. I spent a lot of time and effort coming up with my hitchhiker, which was based on the Mars Rover (which you'll note has an original release date of 5/16/2001 long before ANY talk of travel bugs). If arffer wants to have his people get "bonus credit" for serendipitously finding a hitchhiker, what's the harm? It's like extra credit points. Some people take great time and effort in the thought of transporting these trinkets (for example, look at the photos from Scooby Doo uploaded by photojon and ibnekid). So far the biggest nay-sayers to awarding found points for hitchhikers have used the argument that "points don't matter." If points don't matter, why not err on the part of generosity and give people credit for moving a hitchhiker, especially if they go to all the effort that some people do? Now - and here's the important part - I couldn't care less about awarding points for finding a hitchhiker. Because I truly don't care about my points or anyone else's. I built my Scooby Doo page because I wanted some way to track the travels. If enough of the promised features come to fruition, I'll probably archive the original Scooby page in favor of the travel bug version, but until then I'll probably double update. (Edited for formatting issues) [This message has been edited by Markwell (edited 04 October 2001).]

OK here goes,,,,I know rateing bad bad! But unless you put a numerical value on things it makes it tough for a computer. Soooooo, just don't show the results to anyone. Keep the point totals quiet. (Well I guess when J. travels he will still be able to see who is #1) Create a few catagories. Senic, Creative, Fun, Workout. Rate these one-five. Don't show anyone the results. Top ten caches in the State in each catagory get a little icon on the cache page letting people know. (must have x number of finds to get a rating?) Now we get to talk about what kind of icons.

Ditto all others. My experience has been that Mapping is extremely useful. It allows me to take just my GPS and my PDA, with all the cache listings in it, and have basically everything I need. Without mapping, you will need to carry road maps and such, which can get quite cumbersome. You will also have to spend considerable time figuring out where you are on all those maps. Also, I might suggest a GPS that supports NMEA, as most mapping software requires that in order to "talk" to a laptop. I use a laptop with TopoUSA 3.0 on my longer hunts, and my GPS, a Map330 (Magellan) works splendidly.

hat have no reception at all where they are hidden). With averaging, you can get a really good jumping-off point for the dead-reckoning (or triangulation) part. Working around the existing auto-averaging is as easy as giving a nice wave. It'd be nice if they'd hurry up and put a setting in there, but it doesn't kill you as is. Being able to average waypoints you want to be precise is a strong plus. (I'm waiting to see whether Thales has included a setting for auto-av in the Meridians... If they haven't, I'm going to have to have a talk with those guys. )