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Here's an unpopular point of view. "One and Done", "Weekend Cachers"; whatever you call them. People who download the app and go out without knowing or caring what they're doing. We talk about them here in the fora all the time. This doesn't make them necessarily bad, just uninformed or uncaring. People tend to see what's in front of them as "it". The App can say "Go to the Website" on every screen, but the average person;e tendency is to say "Well, I'm here in the app, playing the game," so they won't. ---------- If you have to balance the 'business needs' of GS as a money-making entity against our needs of protecting the hobby against people on a joy ride through random things to do, I'll pick protectionism every time. This ISN'T Angry Birds or Candy Crush as someone alluded to above. At it's core this is a manually constructed, human effort hobby that exists in the physical world. It doesn't matter how many people have access to the top level of Angry Birds (if there is such a thing) because NOTHING is at stake except profit from app-sales. In Geocaching, what's at stake is the physical effort, time, expense and materiel that goes into the creation and maintenance of the playing pieces in the REAL WORLD, otherwise known as geocaches. Yes, you can play for free forever. You can even HIDE caches for free! That's a wonderful, respectable operating foundation of the company. But, it's SOOOOOO easy to ruin a geocache, even if you have no malice. Even if you have respect. Take stuff home, leave it exposed, log spoilers, relocate to make it easier, throwdowns.... We get all that from PAYING players who presumably should have a higher chance of knowing better! To allow access to all but the most elementary game pieces for players with NO skin in the game is irresponsible and abusive to cache owners. I WISH there was a way to give cachers more perspective and education. I WISH human nature didn't tend toward ONLY self-fulfillment. I WISH that there was a way to immediately get across the concept that the COMPANY didn't hide this stuff; your fellow PLAYERS did, and maybe people wouldn't treat caches like they do public facilities. So, no, the unlockable features of the app should be a reward for actually joining; investing in the hobby. Basic membering which involves using the website may not be the most efficient way to play, but think of it as a toll road. You can take the smaller roads for free, or you can 'join' and get a smoother, faster ride. With reststops and bathrooms. But, it's said, how can people really tell if they want to join unless they can play? Well, I think caching is something that will grab you if you're the right type. Want to try 'higher' stuff? Get yourself a one-month inexpensive membership (or whatever it is). Put SOMETHING personal into the game to be granted access to the shared property of cache owners. Otherwise, there are LOTS of "Angry Birds" games to play. The unpopular part of this? I suppose I'm all for a 'smaller', well-played game. "After all, Bill," my Dad would say. "If everybody does it, then EVERYBODY would do it."

Re: cerberus1 wrote: "You're saying the Geocaching Regional Policies Wiki isn't good enough ?" Yes. I am saying that. The Wiki is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far nor cover a very large percentage of current cache placements. Let me define the issue as narrowly as possible. The goal is to have good caches placed in interesting area with the permission of the landowner. The guidelines require that anyone placing a geocache get landowner permission. Let's assume for the sake of argument that this is actually a requirement that The Reviewer follows. Let's say I want to place a geocache where one has never been before. I need to get permission. It's up to me. I accept that. I figure out who to call, get permission, place the cache. No problem. It's something I've done many times in several different states. In my expirience permission, is either flatly denied without explanation, or granted after some process is followed. Now lets say I want to place a cache where one or more caches have previously been placed. Supposedly whoever placed thse caches, got permission, and passed that information on to the Reviewer. It's a very simple matter for The Reviewer to look up that information and supply it upon request. In the discussion above it was stated that if a landowner objected The Reviewer would relay the information to the landowner about who gave permission, so why not relay the same information upon request to a cacher who requests it? It is still up to the cacher to make the call, get permission, or if the "things have changed" figure out who to contact. Not a big deal to supply some possibly helpful information upon request, is it? For caches placed "where caches have been before" there are really only two reasons for The Reviewer not to answer "Who have other people contacted to get permission?": 1, The Reviewer has the information but chooses not to share it. 2, The Reviewer does not have the information because it was not previously provided. This is an instance where the person enforcing the Rules could be helpful to the person attempting to follow the rules. Why not be helpful? If someone asked me "who did you talk to toget permission" I would be happy to pass it on. Why aren't Reviewers willing to do so upon request?

That's fair enough, but some people talk as though it's the only way, and the website is redundant. Personally when I started geocaching, I found my first 180 caches without a GPS or a phone, and I could only see some caches, and had no idea other caches even existed. I LOVED that, as when I finally became a member all these other caches appeared near where I lived. Rather than get upset I couldn't see them, I was thrilled I hadn't been able to see them, as now I had a whole lot more local caches to find. It was like a birthday present for me. Also, not having a GPS or phone for my first 180 caches, taught me to look for other clues when searching, such as moved pebbles, broken twigs and bent grass.

If you're looking at just putting a bit of metal with the code, or the code and a small amount of text such as the TB name then you could look into letter stamps for metal which come in a variety of sizes and styles. Many hardware stores carry the heavy duty ones that will work on steel, some craft stores carry light duty (read: cheaper) ones that will work on aluminium or thin stainless steel. If you get friendly with some local engineering or engraving place, you might be able to talk them into laser engraving some metal tags for you on some scrap metal for only a few dollars. I haven't had any TB's go missing (yet), not sure how much a difference it makes that I've only sent out proxies. But I've only sent out a few and none have been out long.

Thank you, GeoGern, for the information. Here's your answer to the random question, Wumpus: Suppose you want to make a random number. Here's how to do it: Define a variable in the builder and call it whatever you want. I will call it "Random" for this example. Next, define whatever event you want that will be dependent upon the random number. For purposes of this example, I will keep it simple. This step will show you how to create a character who will give you a random number every time you talk to him/her. The character will then tell you if the number is low (<50) or high (>=50 to keep it simple). To create the character outlined above, to the following: Select "Characters", click "Add", and give the character a name. Next, look at the bottom right-hand corner under "Commands". Create one called "Talk". After that, click the "Events" tab and you will see "When talk occurs". Select it and click "New". -- I originally typed this post to display two message boxes, one to show the random number and one to tell if it is a higher or lower number. However, showing two message boxes one after another does not work well. It'll show the boxes, but the first will give way to the next without requiring user input. Instead, we'll create one message box to display and it will say the number AND if it is a higher or lower number. -- Let's first begin with defining PART of the message where the character tells you the number: -- Add an if-then-else block. In step one, select "Compare an Object" yadda-yadda-yadda. For each of the three arguments, in this order, specify the following: the Random variable, "Greater than or equal to", and the value 50. The line should now read "If Random Greater Than or Equal To 50". Click "OK". --We're back to the programming block screen. Highlight your if statement and click "Add an action". This is what happens if Random is greater than or equal to 50. Select "Show a message to the player" and make the message say " is a higher number" (space included). Now, create another message to the user that will say " is a lower number". Don't forget to highlight "else" before you click "Add an Action". Now, we're going to edit the code directly. Hacking time! Click "OK" until you're back to the main screen. Save your cartridge. You don't have to close it. Open your .lua cartridge file in Notepad. First, type the following line at the top of the file: requires "math" WARNING: You will have to insert the above statement manually after EVERY TIME you save your cartridge. It keeps losing that statement, which was the cause of my confusion. Odd, but it happens. Now, do a search for the string " is a higher number"--what you typed for the character to say to you. You will see the following: Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=[[ is a higher number.]],} Remember that variable you defined to hold the random number? Change the statement likewise to mimic the following: Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=Random .. [[ is a higher number.]],} In Lua, apparently, ".." is the equivalent to "&" in VB and "+" in C#. String concatenation. Do the same thing for the lower number. Look at your "if" statement and be sure it reads like mine. I didn't have an operator in mine and had to edit it: if Random >= 50 then And, now, the last step. Include the following code above "if" statement. This is what assigns the random number. The first digit is the lower bound and the second the upper bound of your random number. Both numbers are inclusive: it will return a 0 or 100 within the random number set. Feel free to use other variables if you'd like. Random = math.random(0,100) Save the file and reload it into the Wherigo Builder application, compile it to your machine, and run it in the emulator. Here's my test code. There are other things in it, but pay attention to the code under the function "function zcharacterRandomGuy:OnTalk()". Copy this to a new text file and name it "test3.lua". Using my file, which has a lot of other test junk in it, move the player's position to the closest zone, right off the road. You'll see a character listed called "Random Guy". Talk to the character multiple times to see different random numbers. From this example, you should now understand how to insert a random number into the code. If you have any other questions, it seems the Groundspeak crew are very eager to answer them. Compliments to them for treating us, the innovator market group, well. I'll be hanging out around here and will perhaps come out with a test open source cartridge for people to learn from it. Seems like I have another programming project other than the Statbar Modifier to work on. ================================================= ================================================= require "Wherigo" require "math" ZonePoint = Wherigo.ZonePoint Distance = Wherigo.Distance Player = Wherigo.Player -- #Author Directives Go Here# -- -- #End Author Directives# -- cartTest3 = Wherigo.ZCartridge() -- MessageBox Callback Functions Table used by the Builder -- cartTest3.MsgBoxCBFuncs = {} -- Cartridge Info -- cartTest3.Id="c183a2f5-6ec4-45c0-b164-6af81985f473" cartTest3.Name="Test 3" cartTest3.Description=[[A time trial along the trail]] cartTest3.Visible=true cartTest3.Activity="Puzzle" cartTest3.StartingLocationDescription=[[]] cartTest3.StartingLocation = ZonePoint(36.1423999945323,-79.8561833063761,0) cartTest3.Version=".01" cartTest3.Company="Ranger Fox Adventures, Ltd." cartTest3.Author="Ranger Fox" cartTest3.BuilderVersion="2.0.4704.3539" cartTest3.CreateDate="1/4/2008 3:43:54 PM" cartTest3.PublishDate="1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM" cartTest3.UpdateDate="1/4/2008 4:53:37 PM" cartTest3.LastPlayedDate="1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM" cartTest3.TargetDevice="PocketPC" cartTest3.TargetDeviceVersion="0" cartTest3.StateId="1" cartTest3.CountryId="2" cartTest3.Complete=false cartTest3.UseLogging=false -- Zones -- zoneParkingarea = Wherigo.Zone(cartTest3) zoneParkingarea.Id="52fa9078-04ca-4e40-8607-2c6d88cd3fba" zoneParkingarea.Name="Parking area" zoneParkingarea.Description=[[Park here]] zoneParkingarea.Visible=true zoneParkingarea.DistanceRange = Distance(-1, "feet") zoneParkingarea.ShowObjects="OnEnter" zoneParkingarea.ProximityRange = Distance(100, "feet") zoneParkingarea.AllowSetPositionTo=false zoneParkingarea.Active=true zoneParkingarea.Points = { ZonePoint(36.14225,-79.85592,0), ZonePoint(36.14243,-79.8558,0), ZonePoint(36.14272,-79.85629,0), ZonePoint(36.14259,-79.85649,0) } zoneParkingarea.OriginalPoint = ZonePoint(36.1422499974569,-79.8559166590373,0) zoneParkingarea.DistanceRangeUOM = "Feet" zoneParkingarea.ProximityRangeUOM = "Feet" zoneParkingarea.OutOfRangeName = "" zoneParkingarea.InRangeName = "" zonePlankbridge = Wherigo.Zone(cartTest3) zonePlankbridge.Id="2373f3e4-0eb3-4849-9450-db9c5f317962" zonePlankbridge.Name="Plank bridge" zonePlankbridge.Description=[[]] zonePlankbridge.Visible=false zonePlankbridge.DistanceRange = Distance(-1, "feet") zonePlankbridge.ShowObjects="OnEnter" zonePlankbridge.ProximityRange = Distance(10, "feet") zonePlankbridge.AllowSetPositionTo=false zonePlankbridge.Active=false zonePlankbridge.Points = { ZonePoint(36.14279,-79.8563,0), ZonePoint(36.14307,-79.85607,0), ZonePoint(36.14323,-79.85622,0), ZonePoint(36.14298,-79.85649,0) } zonePlankbridge.OriginalPoint = ZonePoint(36.1427833398183,-79.8562999725342,0) zonePlankbridge.DistanceRangeUOM = "Feet" zonePlankbridge.ProximityRangeUOM = "Feet" zonePlankbridge.OutOfRangeName = "" zonePlankbridge.InRangeName = "" zoneRailroadSign = Wherigo.Zone(cartTest3) zoneRailroadSign.Id="7cbfc5d9-094b-4cd6-a4ef-17a1bcbdf798" zoneRailroadSign.Name="Railroad Sign" zoneRailroadSign.Description=[[]] zoneRailroadSign.Visible=false zoneRailroadSign.DistanceRange = Distance(-1, "feet") zoneRailroadSign.ShowObjects="OnEnter" zoneRailroadSign.ProximityRange = Distance(10, "feet") zoneRailroadSign.AllowSetPositionTo=false zoneRailroadSign.Active=false zoneRailroadSign.Points = { ZonePoint(36.15314,-79.855,0), ZonePoint(36.15305,-79.85531,0), ZonePoint(36.1533,-79.8555,0), ZonePoint(36.15349,-79.85524,0) } zoneRailroadSign.OriginalPoint = ZonePoint(36.1531333287557,-79.8549999872843,0) zoneRailroadSign.DistanceRangeUOM = "Feet" zoneRailroadSign.ProximityRangeUOM = "Feet" zoneRailroadSign.OutOfRangeName = "" zoneRailroadSign.InRangeName = "" zoneAquifinaArea = Wherigo.Zone(cartTest3) zoneAquifinaArea.Id="94701d65-d574-44ff-a8a4-d45dd5e48944" zoneAquifinaArea.Name="Aquifina Area" zoneAquifinaArea.Description=[[]] zoneAquifinaArea.Visible=false zoneAquifinaArea.DistanceRange = Distance(-1, "feet") zoneAquifinaArea.ShowObjects="OnEnter" zoneAquifinaArea.ProximityRange = Distance(10, "feet") zoneAquifinaArea.AllowSetPositionTo=false zoneAquifinaArea.Active=false zoneAquifinaArea.Points = { ZonePoint(36.15193,-79.85451,0), ZonePoint(36.15215,-79.85462,0), ZonePoint(36.15208,-79.85485,0), ZonePoint(36.1518,-79.85459,0) } zoneAquifinaArea.OriginalPoint = ZonePoint(36.1519333362579,-79.8545166651408,0) zoneAquifinaArea.DistanceRangeUOM = "Feet" zoneAquifinaArea.ProximityRangeUOM = "Feet" zoneAquifinaArea.OutOfRangeName = "" zoneAquifinaArea.InRangeName = "" -- Characters -- zcharacterRandomGuy = Wherigo.ZCharacter{Cartridge=cartTest3, Container=zoneParkingarea} zcharacterRandomGuy.Id="525cc893-ac19-4e1c-9bba-e87031422b94" zcharacterRandomGuy.Name="Random Guy" zcharacterRandomGuy.Description=[[]] zcharacterRandomGuy.Visible=true zcharacterRandomGuy.Gender="Male" zcharacterRandomGuy.Type="NPC" zcharacterRandomGuy.ObjectLocation = ZonePoint(36.1424918494855,-79.8561522764714,360) zcharacterRandomGuy.Commands = { Talk = Wherigo.ZCommand{Text="Talk", CmdWith=false, Enabled=true, EmptyTargetListText="Nothing available"}, } zcharacterRandomGuy.Commands.Talk.Custom = true zcharacterRandomGuy.Commands.Talk.Id="03330ea2-27d2-4242-92b2-33122efaee47" zcharacterRandomGuy.Commands.Talk.WorksWithAll = true -- Items -- zitemRandom = Wherigo.ZItem(cartTest3) zitemRandom.Id="5ac3fd70-474b-497d-b8d1-aa84678f6ba5" zitemRandom.Name="Random" zitemRandom.Description=[[]] zitemRandom.Visible=false zitemRandom.ObjectLocation = Wherigo.INVALID_ZONEPOINT zitemRandom.Locked = false zitemRandom.Opened = false zitemRandom.Commands = { GetRandom = Wherigo.ZCommand{Text="GetRandom", CmdWith=false, Enabled=true, EmptyTargetListText="Nothing available"}, } zitemRandom.Commands.GetRandom.Custom = true zitemRandom.Commands.GetRandom.Id="9d38f63f-760f-4fad-baeb-2a3e19ef9857" zitemRandom.Commands.GetRandom.WorksWithAll = true -- Tasks -- ztaskFindtheparkingarea = Wherigo.ZTask(cartTest3) ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Id="4259783b-c0c6-492b-9690-96456bd8bec9" ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Name="Find the parking area" ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Description=[[]] ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Visible=true ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Active=true ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Complete=false ztaskFindtheparkingarea.CorrectState = "None" ztaskFindrailroad = Wherigo.ZTask(cartTest3) ztaskFindrailroad.Id="a12be009-b3fe-40f4-9459-980b244dec34" ztaskFindrailroad.Name="Find railroad" ztaskFindrailroad.Description=[[]] ztaskFindrailroad.Visible=false ztaskFindrailroad.Active=false ztaskFindrailroad.Complete=false ztaskFindrailroad.CorrectState = "None" ztaskFindAquifinaarea = Wherigo.ZTask(cartTest3) ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Id="58653b15-4628-4d77-a6ae-f3a95420f32c" ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Name="Find Aquifina area" ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Description=[[]] ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Visible=false ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Active=false ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Complete=false ztaskFindAquifinaarea.CorrectState = "None" ztaskGettotheplankbridge = Wherigo.ZTask(cartTest3) ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Id="59095708-f9e8-466e-8ef5-0cb5f689ac34" ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Name="Get to the plank bridge" ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Description=[[]] ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Visible=false ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Active=false ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Complete=false ztaskGettotheplankbridge.CorrectState = "None" -- Cartridge Variables -- Random = 0 TimerExpired = false cartTest3.ZVariables = {Random = 0, TimerExpired = false} -- Builder Variables (to be read by the builder only) -- buildervar = {} buildervar.Random = {} buildervar.Random.Id ="763ea73a-b54f-4ac2-bf1c-a5d230b4f292" buildervar.Random.Name = "Random" buildervar.Random.Type = "Number" buildervar.Random.Data=[[0]] buildervar.Random.Description=[[]] buildervar.TimerExpired = {} buildervar.TimerExpired.Id ="0dfd5fe7-7c9d-4d09-b9b4-9a6fd9e61da3" buildervar.TimerExpired.Name = "Timer Expired" buildervar.TimerExpired.Type = "Flag" buildervar.TimerExpired.Data=[[False]] buildervar.TimerExpired.Description=[[]] -- ZTimers -- ztimerStopwatch = Wherigo.ZTimer(cartTest3) ztimerStopwatch.Id="2d6873df-7ed9-4608-88d7-4768c6b35ac4" ztimerStopwatch.Name="Stopwatch" ztimerStopwatch.Description=[[]] ztimerStopwatch.Visible=true ztimerStopwatch.Duration=600 ztimerStopwatch.Type="Countdown" -- Inputs -- -- -- Events/Conditions/Actions -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------Builder Generated functions, Do not Edit, this will be overwritten------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- function zoneParkingarea:OnEnter() -- #GroupDescription=Enter the parking area -- -- #Comment=Enter the parking area Comment -- ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Complete = true Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=[[You found the parking area. Now, go to the railroad sign.]],} zoneRailroadSign.Active = true ztaskFindrailroad.Active = true zoneRailroadSign.Visible = true ztaskFindrailroad.Visible = true zoneRailroadSign.Visible = true Random = math.random(0,100) end function zoneRailroadSign:OnEnter() -- #GroupDescription=Player enters the railroad zone -- -- #Comment=Player enters the railroad zone Comment -- Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=[[Good. You found the railroad sign. Now, find the Aquifina rest stop.]],} ztaskFindrailroad.Complete = true ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Active = true zoneAquifinaArea.Active = true zoneAquifinaArea.Visible = true ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Visible = true end function zoneAquifinaArea:OnEnter() -- #GroupDescription=Enter the Aquifina area -- -- #Comment=Enter the Aquifina area Comment -- ztaskFindAquifinaarea.Complete = true zonePlankbridge.Active = true zonePlankbridge.Visible = true ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Visible = true ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Active = true Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=[[Great! Now, it's a time attack to the plank bridge. You have ten minutes.]],} end function zoneAquifinaArea:OnExit() -- #GroupDescription=Exit the Aquifina zone -- -- #Comment=Exit the Aquifina zone Comment -- ztimerStopwatch:Start() zoneAquifinaArea.Active = false zoneAquifinaArea.Visible = false end function ztimerStopwatch:OnTick() -- #GroupDescription=Timer expires -- -- #Comment=Timer expires Comment -- TimerExpired = true Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=[[Too late!]],} ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Complete = false end function zonePlankbridge:OnEnter() -- #GroupDescription=Enter the plank bridge -- -- #Comment=Enter the plank bridge Comment -- if ztimerStopwatch.Duration > 0 then Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=[[Great! Good job.]],} ztaskGettotheplankbridge.Complete = true end end function cartTest3:OnStart() -- #GroupDescription=Start cartridge -- -- #Comment=Start cartridge Comment -- zoneParkingarea.Active = true zoneParkingarea.Visible = true ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Active = true ztaskFindtheparkingarea.Visible = true end function zoneRailroadSign:OnExit() -- #GroupDescription=Exit railroad sign - hide the railroad stuff -- -- #Comment=Exit railroad sign - hide the railroad stuff Comment -- zoneRailroadSign.Visible = false zoneRailroadSign.Active = false end function zitemRandom:OnGetRandom() -- #GroupDescription=Get random number -- -- #Comment=Get random number Comment -- Random = math.random(0,100) end function zcharacterRandomGuy:OnTalk() -- #GroupDescription=Talk to random guy -- -- #Comment=Talk to random guy Comment -- Random = math.random(0,100) if Random >= 50 then Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=Random .. [[ is a higher number.]],} else Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=Random .. [[ is a lower number.]],} end end ------End Builder Generated functions, Do not Edit, this will be overwritten------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------Builder Generated callbacks, Do not Edit, this will be overwritten------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --#LASTCALLBACKKEY=0#-- ------End Builder Generated callbacks, Do not Edit, this will be overwritten------ -- #Author Functions Go Here# -- -- #End Author Functions# -- -- Nothing after this line -- return cartTest3

Hi all, today I had a rather frustrating experience with Adventure Labs. After more or less ignoring the cache-type completely, I tried one next to my homezone called Rothsee. Went to the first station, entered the answer... wrong. Again... wrong. Verified the correctness with some friends who already did it. Right answer, no typos... wrong. Thing is, while we in fact are in Germany, my iPhone runs English. So we pulled my wife's iPhone (running German), installed the app, logged in, provided the exact same answer... correct. So while we were able to complete the cache, I still wonder if there is a problem with the internationalization of either that particular lab or the app itself. Answers should the unique b/c e.g. the solution on a plate is always the same word (in this case the name of the manufacturer), no matter the nationality of the player, or clearly state "provide the translated version of the word." What should not happen is that the app fails with particular language settings. What does a tourist do, if he can't easily switch his entire phone to German? If there are any developers of that app listening in here... we need to talk. #Carsti

Thanks! I finally found it. The blog entry was posted way back in November and isn't in any of the categorized lists, so it took me a while to track it down. No reason for you to apologize, but you might want to see about the souvenir description giving some slight hint about what the souvenir is actually granted for. With every other similar souvenir I looked at, the description always ends with "You earned this souvenir by...". It's as if Last 2020 was done by "the new guy" who didn't realize there was a defined formula they were supposed to follow. (I'm not complaining, mind you, I just think it's funny, especially because thread came up at just the right time for me to even look at the souvenir.) I did find the newer 2020 Geocaching HQ souvenir moments blog entry which doesn't mention Last 2020 but does talk about the traditional 12/31 and 1/1 souvenirs. I assume the person writing that newer article hadn't heard that the one day souvenirs have been replaced by these week long versions this year.

First, I agree with RuideAlmeida: if you want to be strict, that's fine, but in order to reject the find, you really need to know for sure whether they signed the log, so physically check it. If you want to let it slide, that's OK, too. To avoid the problem cerberus1 mentions, when you check the physical log, that counts as owner maintenance, so post an OM and mention the missing signature and admit you've giving this one person some slack, but no one else should expect any. (It doesn't matter whether that's true or not. ) In my opinion, what you do or don't do about it as a CO are somewhat secondary to the question of how to teach the seeker about multicaches in case they really don't know about them. Whatever you do with their log, they'll likely never notice or won't understand. To help them learn, don't worry about being a CO: you're just another friendly cacher. I agree the message center is probably out, but they'll notice an email if their address is set right. (If it isn't, then there's nothing you can do unless you meet them in person sometime.) So I tend to send email with enough information to make them realize how multis work if they don't know without flat out accusing of them of not knowing what a multi is in case they do. The most important thing is to think of it more like you're explaining what a double IPA is to your drinking buddy and forget anything about the original owner/seeker, somewhat antagonistic dynamic in which they technically did something wrong that you have to prevent or correct. Imagine you noticed this in a log for someone else's cache so when you're dealing with the newbie, there's no need to talk about whether you'll reject his find.

I'm planning a trip and would like todo a pocket querrie. Or what ever it is called. I can't do it. Geocahing does not respond to any of my Messages. Can anyone help me with it. I'm new to using a phone. I'm back to caching after some years. I got the premium membership yet wondering why I wasted the time .. Is there a class on this. Is there a place where I can talk to a person? Is there someone who can talk to me like a three year old without a phone.. I don't understand the lingo..of the phone.. pinch, blahhhh.. Isthere anyone near who can help me/ I'm going to quit due to no events...no where to learn no emails answered .. I'm aggravated as hell. I'mplanning a month in advance and I can't get anyone to show me the ropes.. I probalby won't even be able to find this page again. Been asking for a week and now have three weeks until schedule departure. Does anyone have the time , energy to help me.. I never knew I have to be an expert on the laptop and phone to play a game that is outdorors.. smh. I'll have to find something else.. I'm so tired of it.

Here in Australia we also have events for the following: May 4th - Star Wars Day September 19th - International Talk Like a Pirate Day November 14th March 14th - PI Day June - World Wide Flash Mob December 23rd - Festivus

Now that you've had the DriveAssist 51 for awhile, what do you think? I just dropped by DriveAssist 50 (which we loved) and totalled it. I tried to order another, and they sent me the 51. I'm not really sure what the difference is. I've heard talk about having to use a smartphone app while driving, which I'd rather not do. I used to upload caching routes from GSAK or Cachetur thru TripPlanner.

No, I believe I am reading exactly what they wrote in the blog post - you're inferring something more positive from it. And that's fine... Seems you selectively disincluded the following point I made: And there has been plenty of talk about 'mundane', 'run of the mill' geocaches proliferating in various places of the community, so they're not pulling this 'archive' idea out of thin air. I'd wager this advice is based on general community feedback. Some people are labeling this advice to consider archival a negative thing. Clearly that opinion is contested. I'm not inferring something positive, I'm saying there's no need to infer something negative. It is what it is. And since clearly the rest of the intent is to encourage more positive geocache hides, why would one infer that considering archival of a cache the cache owner feels is worth archiving, a bad thing? Unless you consider merely asking a cache owner to consider archival for any reason (let along reasons generally to be considered good things) a bad thing? How am I dismissing opinions? You're entitled to them. We all are. But yes, let's start going meta in this disagreement and try to discredit the other person's position by saying they're discrediting yours. Disagreeing is not dismissing. Probably because of a lot of community discussion and complaints and feedback about the proliferation of mundane geocaches, powertrails, lack of maintenance, lack of creativity, etc etc... Again, it's nice seeing your stats. But it doesn't apply everywhere. And not everyone likes the same cache styles or hides. So, if I enjoy mundane caches, does that mean they should be protected against archival because they "can" be enjoyed? The intent to encourage cache owners to consider things that indicate a geocache may be more widely providing a positive experience. If a good cache gets archived because the cache owner decides it's time, sure, if I found it before I might sad because I may know some other people who'd enjoy it like I did. But it's that's CO's choice, their decision. I can only hope that perhaps they're thinking of another good idea for a cache. HQ wants to encourage that. Let them. They're not telling people to archive caches. They're implying, rightly I would say, that favourite points and regular (which is a relative term) finding of a cache is a good sign it's a positive experience. I would not expect a 3 day wilderness camping excursion cache to expect 15 finds a day to be 'regular'. Likewise, I wouldn't simply look at FPs to determine quality, but the tone of the logs that are posted. So if I were the cache owner I wouldn't archive that 3 day camping trip cache solely because it's found twice a year and has 2 FPs out of 15 finds, especially if all the logs are praising the experience. There, I've now considered the suggested indicators of a good cache and chosen not to archive. That's all it takes.

This has come up before. Encouraging a positive isn't discouraging everything else. You have to infer that everything else is a negative. They are encouraging people to create quality geocache listings. And there has been plenty of talk about 'mundane', 'run of the mill' geocaches proliferating in various places of the community, so they're not pulling this 'archive' idea out of thin air. I'd wager this advice is based on general community feedback. They didn't say no one like mundane caches. They simply asked cache owners to consider their geocache hides more carefully and aim towards quality hides. Again, I never said the wording was the best, but I never got from them that people should archive all their caches that don't get FPs or are found rarely. Seems like the people who are inferring that are more likely the ones who are or have been critical of HQ's leanings for a while - ie, have a bias already. If someone wants to hide geocaches, and they infer that they should archive their FP-less, lonely geocaches regardless of any other factors, most likely they will hide new ones, and having already 'heeded' the advice, they'll probably aim better with that mentality in mind. Or, they may keep those old hides without archiving them and just start placing more towards that mentality. Who knows how people will interpret the advice. But the fact is, the advice is entirely towards geocaches that are attempts at being more "FP worthy" (generally excellent advice) and more likely to be attractive to more geocachers to find (also generally excellent advice). And all of those concepts may be regionally interpreted; there are no objective standards or thresholds or universal definitions provided, which means one must interpret it for one's area, and consider providing geocaches that people will enjoy - whatever that may mean.

If you want to tell someone you liked their log, email works... We do that all the time. +1 - if your intent is for the CO to show appreciation to the writer of a log, a message or email will do that. It's happened to me (CO messages me with thanks for a helpful log or glad that I enjoyed their cache, etc.) and I, as a CO, have also contacted finders when I liked their write up. It's a bonus when you meet each other at an event, and can talk about each others' caches in person (which hasn't happened in a loooooong time, and I miss the interaction). Back on topic - a personal note is more direct if you want to show appreciation to the finder who wrote the log. Unless I go back to visit a previous find and read other logs, I'd have no way of knowing if the CO marked my log for "appreciation".

We kinda understand except for this jumping through hoops thing... We never knew of a "wiki" until entering the forums. Never called or emailed anyone, instead heading personally to township buildings, county offices, and the like to find out who to talk to. - One cache had the other 2/3rds attend months of township meetings before they could "fit her in" to discuss it (no parks director). We found that a plus with standing in front of a parks director is it keeps the "paper shuffling/passing the buck" at bay too. The "wiki" is only reference. It says on their page "This site may not be a complete or accurate list of land policies.", and, "if no policies for the area you’re looking for are listed, that doesn't mean no policies exist. You must still obtain permission to place your geocache from the landowner or land manager..." - We've asked for permission since starting, and never considered it "jumping through hoops", but respect to the landowner. On the page (to the right) it does say, "If you have an update, email the community reviewer(s) listed." Why not be proactive and offer known areas to your Reviewers to get things rolling?

I would hope that number of finds or "popularity" doesn't become a measure of cache quality. The ones that get the most finds are the urban P&G micros in tourist hotspots, whereas the ones that get the fewest finds tend to be the more challenging and, for me at least, rewarding ones. Sure, that's what we'd hope, but that wouldn't be the reality of the situation. Popularity can only mean quantity of activity -- given the measures we have, how else can it be determined? Favourite points are just as subjective, find count is only a measure of activity, there's no universal quality rating system. "Popular" right now means that the caches found the most tend to be the ones that most people enjoy (not that I agree with that in the slightest). 'Awesome' caches (which is also subjective) that get few visits will be drowned out by the quantity of caches that people BOTH place and find. What we should hope is that HQ realizes that quantity cannot be considered the sole indicator of popularity. The only other way really is by listening to buzz. What do people talk about the most? Or wish they could do the most? There's no metric for that. But that aspect tends to put everything on an even playing field. LPCs may be super populous, but how much buzz is there about LPCs? Consider that general sentiment with all the talk about bucket list caches, which by comparison are found only a fraction of the time and you can count on your fingers relatively speaking. I'd argue there's a whole lot more buzz and excitement about such caches despite being far fewer and rarely found by comparison. But again, there's no metric for that. So, the only measure of popularity is by what people place the most and find the most. Activity will determine what the landscape of geocaches will look like in the short and long term, varied somewhat by region and local community makeup. It's the promotional strategies of geocaching that can only help to retain that feel of what "quality geocaching" looks like (not just 'geocache quality'), by catering to the social buzz, the word on the street -- not merely statistical data.

I'm not sure in which category I should put this in. There is a Jewish cemetery in my neighbourhood. It was used from 1904 to 1941. There are no funerals here since ca. 1945. It is not abandoned, because there is a person taking care of the whole old complex. So it's not fitting in "abandoned cemeteries" You can see some part of the cemetery, because of the low situated wall. But it's also not open to public. You can't enter there just like that, you would have to talk to the keeper. So i don't really think it fits into "cemeteries worldwide". There are some graves with no names, but many of them are visible, so it's not exactly "graves of the unknown". I can't fit it in any category so it would meet the standards of it, but this is an important place on the map of my small city. What do you think?

I have read (much of) the above and cannot help thinking about a sport you do not talk about here: strolling. Not a sport, you say? Indeed it has no element of competition, you do not get any points added to whatever, heck you don't even have the effort that is associated with trekking/hiking. You only walk to a place, maybe to another place, then in the end you return. That's it. Lots of people do it, only: they are not geocachers. The latter kind of animal seems to be motivated by a treat, a reward at the end of the effort. I don't know how many geocachers are aware of Groundspeak's proprietary version of strolling, but there can't be many, as GS decided to leave out of the new dashboard the link that has been present in the old one for as long as I can remember. My guess is that hardly anybody clicked it to go visit the Waymarking.com website in the last so many years. Like AL, Waymarking has a separate website and isn't really connected to geocaching. And of course the animals don't get a treat to lure them there. As I see it, AL is the new flavour of strolling and this time, GS decided to include the reward. That's how I interpret the fact that you can increase your counter really fast with it. For the record: I don't particularly like AL, but I don't fulminate against it, I just choose to ignore it. Those who like AL should go strolling. Live and let live.

To cerberus1: Re: "Are you referring to the "frisbee rule", where people assume that if other hobbies are allowed, this hobby "must be" allowed too ? We took months at meetings until a township would talk to us about this hobby (asking for permission...), and were very restricted on what they'd allow. Within weeks people who never bothered to ask placed caches there too. Some in sensitive areas we were told to stay away from. - We knew they never bothered because the park told us to take our carp and leave, and they don't allow caching there now." I hadn't heard of the "frisbee rule" but understand what you mean. I'm actually refering to land use that is open to other hobbies such as hunting, fishing, and hiking which I consider equivilent to geocaching as they involve walking on the land while minimally disturbing it. What you point out about getting permission and then having others not bother is the inverse of my point (other's didn't get [permission but I was required to) but it makes my point rather nicely: Since a cache can't be placed without "The Reviewer" giving the "OK", that fact that you took the trouble to do so, and noted it, meant The Reviewer was aware of the land policy and who to contact yet they did not inform other cachers, nor follow the policy of the landowner which was known to them. To me this is the same issue: if The Reviewer is aware of a landowners policy then they should share that information. The fact that contact people change all the time makes no difference. They would supply what information they have and if it turned out to be dated, they could update it with the new info. Sharing information on which office to contact even if who is changeable is an improvement over not sharing. edexter

I came here to see if there was talk about it. My DNF drafts show up as finds. As there is already a thread, I don't have to create a new one or try to recreate, lots of others see it also.

I'm curious if anyone knows of any gadget caches in Ireland. Search by field puzzle attribute turned up a few, but I know that not everyone is exceptionally diligent on their attributes and I'm sure many caches were placed before their introduction, and they do seem to be mostly visual puzzles rather than the more physical gadget caches I've seen discussed elsewhere. I see a lot of US cachers talk about these types of caches, and I do think they look very intriguing and engaging - are there any around? Or do I need to start planning some post-pandemic trips abroad?

Anything you're not sure of, feel free to ask. You may get more appropriate and / or faster replies if you join a local group on Facebook or other social media. Though I'm sure your Brother would love to go out on a caching trip with you now that you're interested and would probably talk your ear off with advice and hints if you don't live near each other. Welcome!

You might be a Social Butterfly if... You walk the walk and talk the talk—as in you like to go to events! You are fully immersed in the geocaching community and Event Caches are totally your thing. You love meeting all of your fellow geocachers and have a knack for helping newbies fall in love with the game! To earn the Social Butterfly souvenir, earn 70 points individually on your Friend League starting October 29 at noon UTC through December 3 at noon UTC. This month earn higher points for attending Event Caches! https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2018/10/you-might-be-a-social-butterfly-if/?newsletter=PM

Sent my info to Laval K-9: Nov. 17Name received from Laval K-9:Sent my gift:My gift arrived at destination:I received a gift: I heard about this in The Geocaching Podcast and then on Geocache Talk podcast. It sounds fun for a first timer. Looking forward to the excitement.

What is official then? Because nothing is Official then, you can log a find even you haven´t found it. You can place a cache and say you find it. You can co with the CO and say you found it. Because, even tho a cache as been archived by Groundspeak you can still log a found (in caches not locked). Hoooooo...but wait, why would Groundspeak lock a cache if it is still part of the game? Why did Groundspeak locked almost all virtual caches that are archived? I don't know if answering is a feeding, or actually helpful... Here goes, and the reply will tell me everything I need to know: The game of geocaching has been loosely adopted by Groundspeak Inc. and a listing service was created at Geocaching.com back in the year 2000. The game of geocaching (lower "g") was started after GPS Selective Availability was turned off, allowing consumer-level GPS units to have a huge improvement in accuracy. Some people started to talk about how accurate their GPS units would become, and a fun test, of sorts, was created. Dave Ulmer decided to place a container in the woods outside of Portland, Oregon, post the coordinates for the container online, and invited others to look for it. A great success! Someone found it, and proved that accuracy was better, and a game could be played where people hide containers and have people find them. Wahoo! Caches started out with containers, logbooks (not unlike a summit register), and some fun items to trade. The game most certainly had races to see who could get there first, and still does to this day. When geocaching was "formalized" and listing services hosted by Groundspeak, there were, and continue to be, other sites hosting geocache locations online for people to seek. Geocaching became Geocaching (as in Geocaching.com, big "G"), and the Geocaching.com site became the most visited and comprehensive hosting service for the game. Cache types were developed, and guidelines were hammered out on these very forums for the first handful of years. (You can still search here for some of the old, very relevant discussions about cache types, log types, use of logs, etc. Very interesting stuff, and fun to read. History is good to know when taking on this game and how it is played on this website.) The guidelines for the game hosted by Geocaching.com were "published" online, and are updated here and there still to this day. The main tennent for the game is still the same: Hide a cache, record its coordinates, publish it online, someone seeks it, finds it, signs the logbook, and then logs their find online to talk about their experience. When the game was "new", many people took the time to talk about the hike, the scenery, the cache, the fun they had seeking, and more. As the game grew, people had fun placing fun prizes for people to trade--and some also started to place items for the first person there to keep for themselves as a special prize for finding what was, at that time, a new and exciting test of emerging gameplay technology. It may have been a gift card, a small piece of art, an unactivated trackable item, etc. The guidelines remain essentially the same, yet one thing has never been entered into the guidelines on Geocaching.com/Groundspeak's sites: "First-to-find" guidelines. That side-game developed out of the funloving and creative minds of people playing the game and paying it forward with their generosity. As more and more people came to the game, the race was on within moments of publication, and many had fun challenging others to "beat them to it if they could". As with any side-bet or lighthearted competition, there are variations on ability, skill, and involvement. Some took it very seriously, others dabbled in it, and others just didn't care. Those same camps exist today, 14 years later. The guidelines as posted for guiding the gameplay and publication of Geocaches on Geocaching.com are "official". They are the way we all agree to play the game when we sign up for an account, or click the "I have read the..." checkboxes when we publish caches. If we ignore the guidelines, logs are deleted, caches are not published, listings are archived, and more. That much is enforcable on this website, and for all listings and accounts under the Geocaching.com/Groundspeak umbrella. Because this game is rooted in 14 years of history, there are certain ways the game is played. Owners are able to delete logs--liek if the logbook is not signed. So if you decide that actually finding a cache or not signing a log is ok because you think the guidelines and owner responsibilities are not "official", then you are up for a surprise when your logs are deleted, and you suddenly find yourself on the outs with the Geocaching.com community for repeatedly logging armchair or 'bogus' logs. Essentially, this is herd mentality. If you don't follow the guidelines that have been created and managed (mostly) by the community input, you won't find yourself enjoying playing the game here at Geocaching.com, or others enjoying that you're playing in their community. That's because deleting improper logs is the responsibility of listing owners, and is backed by "common practice" over the last 14 years of how this game is played. That is what separates "FTF" from bogus logs and archived caches. Geocaching.com does not own the listings or geocaches themselves, but they do have the right to archive listings that no longer meet the guidelines or cache types hosted by this site. If an owner no longer manages their listing--as is set out in the Terms of Use and Guidelines--then their caches can and will be archived. That is why Virtuals are now archived--the owners are no longer managing the listing, the cache type is no longer publishable, and users can--and have--abused the logging of these caches because they are fully aware that an owner will not delete their bogus log. The same goes for archived caches; however an active owner will delete a bogus log of their archived cache if they decide to do so. Groundspeak can also lock any archived cache as requested or seen fit according to the terms of use. Geocaching.com is both of those things. A place that hosts record of the Geocaches you have found, and a host of the listings that are published if they meet guidelines for listing and existence posted by Geocaching.com and Groundspeak. Play by the "rules", or play elsewhere. As there is no guideline outlining when someone can or cannot claim a "FTF", it is not an official Geocaching.com activity. They may talk about it on the blog or in videos, but that's just because it has been a part of the Geocaching lexicon for years. They can talk all they want, but they don't run the FTF show. That side-game is, as we've said, played differently by different people. So long as you're playing the game here at Geocaching.com, you have be be ready to be ok that others play that side-game differently than you do. Sharks and Jets, man. I do think that it is you that doesn't "get it". Either that or you're trolling us. Your replies will tell us that answer, I think. There are no "purists" or "puritans" of the FTF game, because anyone can claim that they way they play that side-game is the "way" it should be played. True "FTF" puritanical idealism would stay at the root of the phrase: "First to find". If you found it first, it doesn't matter if it was before or after publication. Once that cache is hidden, it can be found by anyone. And if nobody else but the hider has been to that site and found the cache yet, they are first. Now, if your gang of Sharks says that FTF only happens after publication, that's great. Just know that there are Jets out there that think a FTF can happen before publication. And then there's other gangs out there who dance differently than those two gangs...because there is no "official" way to play this side game. Why does my post say NeverSummer?