Stargazer22

<shortened the quotes to stop my eyes from spinning...> Thank you! You finally got it. I am hooked on caching enough to look for even the ones I think are lame. I suspect that I am not alone in this respect. For me, lame does not mean I will not search for it or filter it out, nor does it mean it causes me any angst or anxiety of any sort. It's just my personal rating for the cache. I am fully aware that others may derive supreme enjoyment from a cache I would define as lame. It's all good as long as we are all having fun!

I agree with this one completely. As a finder, I do not prefer to find a micro after solving a difficult puzzle. ... If I solve a puzzle and find a micro at the end, that one would fit my personally biased definition of "lame". You sound like you think that puzzle owners are tricking you into finding their micros. You know, there is a way to tell the size of the cache container before you even begin working on the puzzle, right? Just because they don't have the hangup about microcaches that you appear to, doesn't mean that they don't enjoy the game. Please don't put your words into my mouth. I never said anything about anyone "tricking" anyone into anything. That's all in your imagination. However, on that subject, many puzzle owners mark their puzzles as "unknown" on the size so you really can't tell in advance that it is a micro. Please don't insinuate that I have any "hangup"s about micros. You are mistaken. I search for micros all the time and don't attemp to filter them out. In fact, 2 weekends ago I did a 6+ mile hike that had 17 caches on the hike. 14 of them were micros. I knew it in advance and planned the weekend around those caches. I simply said that I think that a puzzle cache with a micro for a final fits my personal definition of lame. Someone who goes to all the trouble of working out a puzzle but can't be bothered to place anyting except a micro sounds to me like someone who is more into the puzzle than the cache. As a puzzle on a puzzlers website that may be fine, but as a cache on a geocacher's website, I find it to be lacking. There is an easy peasy method that would help you to avoid these micro-puzzles that cause you so much angst. <edited to fix the stargazer's messed up quotes> There you go putting words into my mouth again. Who said I had any angst? I have an opinion. Can I pretty please have your permission to state it without you putting your own spin to my comments?

I agree. There is a big difference between a DNF and a NM. Unfortunately sometimes newbies don't understand the correct useage of each, or they think that if they couldn't find it, then it must not be there. I don't have enough ego to believe that my searching skills are so perfected that I must be able to find everything out there. Not finding the cache is definitely a DNF. The only time NM should be used is if the cache is found and there is a problem with it. FYI, in the case of my ones that kept being eaten by bears, they seemed to have an attraction to the rubber ball I was putting in as swag for the kiddies. Maybe it was the texture or maybe it was the smell. I was very careful not to introduce any food odors of any kind, using all new containers, all new swag, and washing my hands before handling so as not to impart any food smells on them. They still got chewed to bits. Taking out the rubber balls helped a little, but I still wound up replacing some of the lock-and-locks with ammo cans in the long run. Good luck with your replacement!

I agree with this one completely. As a finder, I do not prefer to find a micro after solving a difficult puzzle. ... If I solve a puzzle and find a micro at the end, that one would fit my personally biased definition of "lame". You sound like you think that puzzle owners are tricking you into finding their micros. You know, there is a way to tell the size of teh cache container before you even begin working on the puzzle, right? Just because they don't have the hangup about microcaches that you appear to, doesn't mean that they don't enjoy the game. Please don't put your words into my mouth. I never said anything about anyone "tricking" anyone into anything. That's all in your imagination. However, on that subject, many puzzle owners mark their puzzles as "unknown" on the size so you really can't tell in advance that it is a micro. Please don't insinuate that I have any "hangup"s about micros. You are mistaken. I search for micros all the time and don't attemp to filter them out. In fact, 2 weekends ago I did a 6+ mile hike that had 17 caches on the hike. 14 of them were micros. I knew it in advance and planned the weekend around those caches. I simply said that I think that a puzzle cache with a micro for a final fits my personal definition of lame. Someone who goes to all the trouble of working out a puzzle but can't be bothered to place anyting except a micro sounds to me like someone who is more into the puzzle than the cache. As a puzzle on a puzzlers website that may be fine, but as a cache on a geocacher's website, I find it to be lacking.

You did just fine. Unfortunately you happened to run up against a touchy, and somewhat misinformed cache owner. A needs maintenance log is not a black mark against the cache owner. It is simply someone's opinion that the cache needs to be looked at to be sure it is OK to go for the next finder. Anyone that thinks that is a "black mark" against them doesn't understand the basics of being a cache owner. I had some caches that were quickly dispatched by bears after I hid them. Without NM logs, I would not have known that they became bear chew-toys and needed to be replaced.

You're right, it's not an exact science. You will only get so close and if you're within 30 feet, then you're good to go. I will say however, that not all GPS receivers are the same. I have an Etrex H version and a GPSMap 76. The arrow pointer for finding caches is more accurate and useable on the 76 than it is on the Etrex. Also, I have found that when we go on caching hiking trips, the odometer on the Etrex is useless. Whenever we are moving slowly (less than about 2 mph) sometimes the Etrex will think we are not moving, so there are many times on a slower walk that the mileage doesn't accumulate on the Etrex odometer. (I have updated the software for it more than once and it still does the same thing) At the end of our hike, if we typically go around 4+ miles, the 76 will be within a few tenths of a mile from the mileage I expeced to hike by plotting the route on Google Earth. The Etrex odometer may only show 2 to 3 miles total, being off by as much as 30 to 50 percent. Whenever we are searching and moving slowly, the Etrex arrow tends to bounce around a lot, while the 76 stays more solid. If we are moving at a good clip, both units seem similar, but anytime we are searching, we aren't usually moving fast enough to get good readings on the Etrex. It gets us to the area but the 76 helps us to pinpoint the find usually.

Good for you for going back, opening the container, and signing the log. I would have done the same. My standards for my own finds differ from what I would expect from others, though. Personally I won't log a cache online that doesn't have my name on the physical log. For me, getting my name on the log is the culmination of the hunt. Kind of like when a duck hunter puts the duck in the game bag. Showing up at the duck pond but not bagging any ducks does not put meat on the table. But I don't expect others to follow my standards.

There are lots of things that can contribute to my definition of a "lame" hide. Leaky containter, really bad coords, poor placement in an unispired area, a micro at the end of a diffcult puzzle or long hike. All these make a cache "lame" to me.

We spent around 6 hours on our first trip after one particularly difficult micro in the woods. Wound up making 4 trips total and put in somewhere around 14 or 15 hours finding it. The only reason we were willing to spend so much time on it was that it was the last one in a series and we wanted to finish the series.

I agree with this one completely. As a finder, I do not prefer to find a micro after solving a difficult puzzle. I think someone that believes a micro is a preferred final is one who doesn't want to work at maintaining a full sized cache and wants to make it easy on themselves as a hider. Essentially little or no maintenance required and maybe 20 seconds to find a spot to plunk down a film can or bison tube. As far as the statement made about solving puzzles, I have to disagree that there is more work in making the puzzle than solving it. I can make a puzzle in 5 minutes that will be almost impossible to solve. I would much prefer finding a full sized cache at the end of the journey. If I solve a puzzle and find a micro at the end, that one would fit my personally biased definition of "lame". Someone who puts lots of work into designing a clever and interesting puzzle then puts a micro out for the cache at the end sounds like someone who is into puzzles but not so much into geocaching to me.

It's amazing how crafty cachers can be. There isn't always just one way to solve a puzzle, and someone is bound to find a way that's different than what the owner intended. I found a cache series similar to what is described once without having to locate all the other caches. I was actually very glad the owner did it that way because one of the caches had been burnt up in a fire. Having found all the other caches in the series, I was left with 2 missing digits. Luckily, one of them was a largely significant digit and it could only be one number without putting the cache final miles away. The other was a least signigicant digit, so I had a possibility of 9 places it could have been. Two were eliminated as they either fell outside the area or in water. I looked in all the other 7 possible spots until I found the final. It was more work that way but at least possible. I have done other series like this a few times, and always enjoy this format. Have fun with your cache!

The fun level you experience while caching with others will obviously depend on who those others are, and what their idea of fun is in geocaching. It sounds like you need to find a new caching partner. I generally don't enjoy spending time with anyone who makes everything in life a competetion, especially when they feel they must "win" at everything, including watching TV. (How can you "win" or "lose" at watching TV?? I feel like most of the time I spend in front of the tube is a "loss". ) I have cached with lots of folks in our area and generally enjoy being with almost everyone I have met so far. Luckily I haven't run into someone who behaves as you have described your friend. My belief is that caching is supposed to be fun. If you are caching with someone who lowers your fun level you should evaluate whether you are having enough fun with them or not to continue. Don't let it put you off of caching with others. Just find some others that have the same idea of fun as you have. Not only can it be a lot of fun watching someone else try to find a cache, it can be educational as well. It can help as a hider of caches to watch how other people search for one.

I have some old finds going back to the middle of '07 that I always meant to go back and clean up by logging them. Maybe someday I will go back and clear out all the old ones I have found. Logging them religiously isn't my thing since I am not a big numbers hound. I would hate to be labeled a "cheater" in the public forums just because I have some old logs to catch up.

I think those rules seem entirely reasonable, and I live in Orlando. Please don't push the envelope just to push it. Hide within their guidelines and be happy that they are allowing caches in the park. If they get the idea that geocachers want to somehow circumvent their rules, they may just change them in the wrong direction and disallow caching in the park all together. That would be really easy for them and they wouldn't have to worry about people trying to use some kind of loophole to get around their completely reasonable hiding requirements.

This is a great example of why the site does not care about FTFs or track them. Way too much silliness over who "claims" what. You know that you found it first, does anyone else's opinion really matter?

Welcome to the fun! We have some great caches and great cachers around Orlando. You will find everything from micros in parking lots to ammo cans deep in the swamps. There are tons of great caches on the jeep trails in the Ocala National Forest north of Orlando. If you enjoy going out in your jeep (like I do), you can find some really fun jeep trails out there. I have 8 of them in some unique areas in that forest. The northernmost 3 or 4 of them really need a jeep for access. Have fun and maybe we will get to say hello at a local event. Jerry Stargazer22

I don't find it hypocritical at all. They are caches listed on the site. Why not feature one? You make a great case for archiving all virtuals. If you find it so hypocritical that they would feature one on the website, maybe they should all just go over to Waymarking.

Nothing wrong with using a stamp or sticker. No difference between slapping down your mark with a pen or with a sticker. Either way, you were at the cache and left your mark. What do I have to do, take 2 witnesses and a notary public with me to prove I signed the log?

Go with switches, not pots. Most volume control pots are not linear taper so simply setting one to the middle will not give you half of the total resistance. Most volume control pots are logarithmic taper and have a large amount of movement in the first portion of the adjustment as compared to the end of the adjustment. Also, any pots of higher value resistance may be affected by humidity and can drift with age. You could use some rotary switches and a simple logic chip so that only one combination of settings will light an LED. You could even go the fancy way and use a dual-colored LED that will be red until the right combination is reached, when it would go green. You'll need to address the method of powering this device at the cache site, though. Be sure to alert cachers on the cache page if they need to bring batteries to power the switching unit. Don't assume all cachers use AA batteries, although most do. If they need to use AAs to power the unit you should let them know to bring some in advance. Good luck on your cache!

So you placed caches and decided to list them on geocaching.com. You attempted to have them published after clicking on a statement that you read, understood, and agreed to the listing guidelines for this site. The reviewer asked you to clarify your listing because it didn't meet the specifications for listing here. So you complain about bureaucracy taking the fun out of caching. I can understand. I rarely have fun when I shoot myself in the foot. Your complaint is misplaced. Look in the mirror.

Riff, this sounds like a great idea! Next time you place a cache hip deep in the swamp, I'm gonna be looking for the entertainment table. If you could manage to bring a grill and make a couple of scorched hot dogs, I'll bring an imported adult beverage or two. Much better than hopping out to say "Boo!" at someone.

Don't feel bad. Some micros can be extremely difficult to find, even for experienced cachers. We found one that took us 3 trips out to the area and a combined 12 to 15 hours of searching for it before we located it. It was in plain sight the whole time. We looked for one back when we had about 300 finds and I was able to spot it fairly quickly. I cache with my wife SwampyGirl and was letting her continue to look for it. After about 5 more minutes searching, I started giving her "hot" and "cold" clues. This finally got her to the right spot. The micro was imbedded in an old palm tree root, lying in a bunch of pine trees. She figured out that the palm root didn't belong and picked it up to examine it. She took a good long look at it, turning it over and over in her hands. She was looking right at it. She put the root down and started to look elsewhere, so I gave her a "very cold". She looked at me as if I had lobsters coming out of my ears. She finally picked it back up and started looking at it again, turning it over in her hands again. As the cache would come into sight, I would say "you can see it now". She continued to turn it over so I said "you can't see it now". Even after all these detailed clues I was giving her, putting it right in her hands, and even having her look right at it, she just did not see it. I finally had to point it out to her. Once she saw it she said she didn't understandy why she didn't see it before. Sometimes we can look directly at something and not see it for what it is. Micros are often camoflaged directly to that effect. After you have seen more of them and know what to expect, it can make it easier. Many times the ones that are the hardest to find give you the greatest reward once you have found them. Have fun!

I usually give the details of my experience in my online log, unless there is a lot of room in the log book. Then I will sometimes put a few comments in there that are special comments for the cache hider. Those don't go in my online log. I know my comments in the log book in the cache will only be seen by the hider and the other finders of the cache, whereas my online comments will be seen by anyone looking at the cache page.

I'm one of those "idiots". You are describing a good portion of the caches I place. Why do I do it? To provide geocachers with entertainment and a bit of a challenge. Sure some of them are seldomly found but the people who do find them seem to enjoy them immensely judging from their logs. They are rewarded by being taken out of their comfort zone and finding cool spots that most people will never see. There are still some geocachers out there who enjoy coming home with bloody legs, mud caked boots and memories of a real adventure. If you don't enjoy an adventure and challenging terrain there are hundreds of thousands of caches out there in strip malls, on guard rails and in Home Depot parking lots. Have at 'em. I'm one of those "idiots", too. Only a 2 mile hike and a little 1000 foot bushwhack? That's just getting started! Thankfully we have lots of caches around here that provide this kind of challenge and more. Not only do I love these kinds of caches, my wife SwampyGirl loves them, too. Last year we went on a run with some other cachers that was a continuous 4-5 mile bushwhack through the roughest terrain you could imagine. The best visibility we had all day was about 100 feet in front of us. We emerged beaten, tired, and thoroughly exhausted, with giant smiles on our faces. We did another series of bushwhacking caches in a swamp shortly after a hurricane blew through here. The entire area was flooded and several of the caches were knee deep to waist deep in water. One of them was in the middle of a small pond that had changed to a much bigger pond after the hurricane, and was about 4 1/2 feet deep. It took us 2 days to find them because of all the water and slow going. Both these experiences were adventures that we still talk about and have fond memories of. This is only 2 stories out of maybe 30 like this that we have done. Once you do some caches like these, you start to realize that you are also getting some personal growth out of the accomplishment of the challenge. Kind of like those corporate character building experiences that are so extreme (and expensive!). Just because it's a cache you don't like, that does not make it a "bad" cache!

Actually, they don't have to be attached to anything metal. I have seen a couple of hides down here that were magnetic containers but not hidden on any metal items. Of course the hint is 'magnetic' which misleads searchers to look for ferrous items in the environment. They are usually placed where metal items are within 20 feet of GZ but they are not located on the metal item, despite being magnetic containers. I guess it's their way of misdirecting searchers to increase the difficulty. Starting out on 1/1 caches that are larger sized is going to be much easier for you. Check past logs to see that what you are searching for has been found recently. Good luck!