Sileny Jizda

We've got one near us that I feel is commercial but they approved it so who am I to complain? The cache is full of business brochures and the like. A recent article in our local paper about the business placing the cache said they thought it was a great way to market to a younger crowd to get them interested in the business as well. If that isn't outright admitting the cache was placed for a commercial venture or gain I don't know what is. It's still active, we found it after two go's at it, and the reviewer seems to let it float. Who am I to argue the rules. They are the ones that don't get paid to approve or deny them.

I think it depends on the airport, location, and size, and permission. We have (GC1FX4H) Come Fly With Us located just up the road from us and it is located near the airport office. According to the notes they know it's there and gave explicit permission for its placement. The airport isn't a large one either.

Shortcut May Cost Geocachers (Link) Post your thoughts or stories.

Challenging caches are fun for both the hider and the cacher that likes to look for that type. Phone a friend networks for the sake of numbers really take the joy out of it. I can see where the owner would be upset.

Wow! Really? Unwritten hoops and guessing games? And you'll abandon your membership over one incident? But, I 'll bet you will still use their site for free. And come in their forum to criticize them, for free. This thread has been long and heated but in the end it's all about very little. Someone did something controversial, lots of us discussed it, no resolution an be had and the thing is slowly winding down. Happens from time to time in any forum. But hoops and guessing games? I've been in the game for a little while, found a few caches, hidden some, but never had to jump through a hoop or play a guessing game. Quit 'em if you want, but please find a legitimate excuse. Sign me Kool-aid drinker It's free to use. I don't have to support them with my hard earned money though. In regards to hoops yes they exist. In regards to unwritten rules yes they exist. I joined this hobby to have fun not play "read GroundSpeaks mind" games. My reasons for no longer supporting them monitarily are mine and good enough for me. As has been pointed out this has not been an isolated incident as you and a few others would like people to believe. Another was brought up recently. How many others have happened that we have not heard about? I'm betting more. As for the hoops in our specific area myself and others have discussed it many times over the past year. People are getting tired of the unwritten policies and rules. I will not address them here because it isn't the place. Other than that like this situation it's pointless to even try. Like this one it is ignored, swept under the rug, or dismissed. My money is best spent elsewhere until they get the message. Like anything else though I'm sure it will be ignored as well.

We won't mention a few previous because it angers one of our friends, but we just saw them disable one yesterday. If it hadn't been found today, we have no idea where that was going... I think disabling questionable caches has been going on since the start of the game. Disabling is not archiving. The cache you're talking about has no bearing on this topic. Just like the first one. It was first archived with a note a bit similar to the cache in question. This DOES have bearing on thie discussion. How do you know that the next step wasn't archival? If that cache wasn't found, we have no idea the curse this cache was about to be taken down. RR, one BIG difference, the cache WAS reactivated. As for what MIGHT have happened, well, there is no way to tell. Perhaps the cache would have been archived. Then who knows, maybe the owner would have sent in a few photos, and taken his or her local reviewer to the cache and the reviewer would have kept it archived because it was just too hard to find. The Maybe Jeremy would have flown out in the Groundspeak Lear Jet, investigated the situation, held a "beer summit", re enabled the cache and caused and outbreak of world peace. You can't use what might have happened to bolster your argument, there is no way to prove "might have been's" I don't see it.......... the reviewer had concerns and acted appropriately. The cache was then found and all is well. I know I'd be pretty concerned if, after I had just checked and stated checking to make sure the cache was still there, the reviewer disabled my cache. Even if I didn't know anything about this thread, that would give me reason for concern. Why did the reviewer have concerns? Because of the inordinate amount of DNFs? That seems a first to me. What constitutes an inordinate amount? Why disable? Why didn't the reviewer simply email the owner asking about his concern? Seems this is a perfect reason for concern. You say the cache was found and all is good...what if the cache hadn't been found? You can't see the similarities? The situations are the same. Only the outcome was different due to it being found. An act of which only puts more egg on GS faces. It also points to a new unspoken, unwritten rule being enforced that we must use tea leaves and smoke to discern in placing a cache. As for the number of finds a cachet has giving him more credibility over another I call bunk. Anyone can get high numbers from multi-logging to park and grab runs. Numbers mean nothing when it comes to skill in this game. Let the kool-aid drinkers guzzle their brew. What is going on is obvious even without word from GS to verify. I have chosen to speak with my wallet at this point until this issue is either changed, clarified, or resolved. We will not be renewing our membership nor buying any of their product. We will let those that do not know about what is going on and encourage them to do the same as well. I'm tired of all the unwritten hoops and guessing games.

Keep those wagons circled guys. You're just proving our points for us. Easily I might add. At this point it sounds like several of you are quoting the same well worded memo despite the obvious holes.

You would be surprised how quickly people in positions of authority that pooch up something so visible and obvious do whatever is necessary to cover their backsides. People do it all the time. As has been pointed out more than once in this thread TPTB are just people capable of making mistakes. They are not flawless. Where the stuff hits the fan is in how they man up and deal with the situation and make good on it. Again, as has been pointed out. They do have the ability to archive at will without any real justification. After all they have the wall of 'privacy' to hide behind if they or their kindred make a mistake. I have caches that I can literally drive by at 55-65 mph and see if they are in place all the while a high count find cacher would spend a long time looking at the site for it and sometimes not finding it at all. The time it takes to check a cache is immaterial if the owner knows where to look. You logic is flawed and only throws another hoop for potential cache hiders to jump through. Now we have to make certain that a cache is found within an unspecified amount of time by someone. With your addition we now must guess as to the proper amount of time to be expected to check and verify a cache? All to Get real. It's a hobby that is meant to be fun not a hoop jumping contest. You don't have to read anything into those notes. It's there. Toe tapping around it doesn't make it any less so. God forbid there actually be a cache in existence that lives up to the rating that was given to it. I think that is why we have ignore features. That way you can make the hard ones go away without taking the fun away from folks that actually enjoy a challenge. Again, more unspoken rules and regs that we as cache hiders are left to try and guess or discern by reading tea leaves and incense. How long is long, how quick is quick. Even more fun when someone halfway across the country not even familiar with the area starts pushing buttons. That is something that is only fueling the frustration of some cachers. A lot of folks complain about all the film cans but all these unspoken rules I think contribute to them. I for one wouldn't want to put a ton of work into something unique and enjoyable only to have to jump through hoops that are not listed on the regs and listings page. It's primarily one of the reasons why many in my area have given up placing anything, myself included. Before you read into it that Keystone is an issue because of my location he isn't. I find him firm, fair and consistent. More than I and others can say about the other reviewers in our area. Will my opinion I just stated put a target on my back? Probably. But it has to be said. These guys are fallible individuals just like everyone else. The respect comes when if they make a mistake they man up to it, not stay silent. As for appeals, we all know how well those turn out in the end. Not very good most of the time. I joined this hobby as a stress relief as have others. In the past few years it's been anything but with unwritten rules, regs, guidelines or whatever politically correct phrase that is used now. So much so I've seen friends leave because of it. Reading these forums and seeing the real side of this thing I would have been much better off just downloading the waypoints searching them out and leaving it at that.

What I see here is someone on the side of pushing the button messed up and messed up big. For those that think the powers that be are infallible, perfect, and unbiased I could think of a few bridges for sale if your interested. In our area alone I know of several instances when caches are published with wording that other cachers in the area are not allowed to use. Invoking the 'privacy' policy only gives them a wall to stand behind away from answering any questions on the matter. I have no doubt the cache was there. We have hard caches here that have not been found or found very little. It doesn't mean they don't exist it only means I don't have the skill to locate them. This is something that should also be taken into consideration when archiving another cache so someone else can toss out another film can or button nano.

100% exactly right. Precise and to the point based on the information at hand. Unless new information comes along, I do not see any point in further comment. Actually the whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept only holds true in a criminal case. Totally irrelevant here, where there is no charge of a crime whatsoever. Just thought I'd mention that, since that statement has been bounced around here a bit now. Actually the statement is spot on. Groundspeak and the reviewers play the part of judge, jury and executioner every day. While they don't wear the robes and dole out judgments in grand halls they did indeed judge the cache owner as not having told the truth by their action of archival. With no evidence to the fact that the cache was indeed missing, never there, or no actual maintenance check the button was pushed. The stance they took was erroneous at the very least. It was not a one, two, three, or even four star rated hide. It was a five, indicating some measure of extreme difficulty that a great number of cachers would have difficulty locating it. A high number of finds is no indication at all of the skill a cacher may have in finding difficult caches. A mistake was made here and in my opinion it was not by the CO. He did what was requested of him. GS should buck up and admit a mistake was made either publicly or privately and make this thing right. By their inaction is only discourages other potential creative cache hiders for fear that if they make something too difficult it would be archived as well.

Funny how we've gone from innocent until proven guilty to guilty until proven innocent. Superfly checked on the cache as requested and reported back the cache was in place and intact. That is where it should have stopped. The reviewer overstepped in my opinion. Hard to find caches shouldn't have a shelf life. Otherwise the place is going to get kinda dull with LPC's and the like. I myself, prefer the challenge. If the person with their particulars in a knot that started this twist of events would have just placed the cache on their ignore list the rest of the folks that wanted to seek this one out would have been able to do so.

Has anyone used the micro SD version of these updated maps on the nuvi 350 and the 60Csx handheld with success. We're looking to update the nuvi maps but would love to be able to use it on the handheld 60Csx as well. I know the Garmin site shows it might be possible but we're looking for someone that has actually done it. Opinions?

We have several hidden like the one you mentioned. We used a cover the same color as the pole. The screws are shaved off and adhered to the plate. It even has has the waterproof seal on the back as well to further blend it in. They sit in a parking lot where we get upwards of tens of thousands of muggles in a month. It's Amish Country and the tourists are thick. Knock on wood I have yet to have had either muggled. At one point the places of business even stuck an advertisement sign on the pole right above it. Never even noticed it.

Don't expect any tears from me. I've lost count how many times clowns with cell phones with the thought that their phone business is more important than the business of driving a car is more important. In 95% of the cases where I've had to take evasive action on the road it was due to some knothead texting or talking on a danged phone. Makes me wish they had cell phone jammers installed in cars to block the things from use while the car is in gear.

We got a really odd combo in the mail today. We got the antique copper with the magenta instead of the black but we also got two silver with the weird green color as well. We only ordered the two copper with black handles.... Looks like it's gonna get stranger yet....

Per the user manual.... Interesting since it is supposed to 'family friendly.' Take the fam out for a 5/5 anyone? Here JR. Happy Birthday.... now go find these things. Make sure if you find a rock wall you pull emm out they may be hidden in there. This is the “Find Difficulty” rating; it tells you how hard it will be find this geocache. It is out of “5” with 5 being the hardest. This is the arrow pointing in the direction of the geocache. If you are not walking, this arrow will not be available. This is the closeness order of the geocache. In this example, the currently selected geocaching is the “1st” closest to your location. If the geocache was the 2nd closest, this would be a 2. And this is the size of the cache. Ranging between 1 and 4 with a 1 being a very small “micro‐cache” which could be as small as your thumbnail and a 4 being as big as a bucket! This is the “Terrain Difficulty” rating. Out of “5” with 5 being the hardest, this gives you an indication of the type of terrain you need to cover to get to the geocache. Hunting Geocaches Finding geocaches can be tricky. But it’s half the fun! The GPS receiver, in this case, your Geomate.jr will only get you close to the location of the geocache. By close, we mean something like 10 feet or so. The rest is up to you! You need to look around and find the hidden geocache. They can be hidden almost anywhere! Common hiding places and tricks include: • In or behind bushes • Inside or under logs • Magnetically attached to the back of street signs • Underneath park benches • Between rocks or small caves • In gaps in rock walls ***Gee How many debates has this one spurred? So you have to look hard and don’t give up too easily. Keep in mind that there is a chance that the geocache that you are looking for just may not be there anymore. It doesn’t happen often, but they can disappear.

That may be the funniest thing I have read in a while! What if they don't? As it appears I'm not the only one that is upset about this I doubt that I would be the only one that would make choices that would affect this product. Go ahead and dismiss it or us but when the closest cache is several counties away it does take away from the convenience aspect of the device. Regardless of how large a business gets it should remember the people that got it where it is. When they don't and get greedy people start walking. No one ever thought Firefox would put so much as a dent in IE's browser use but it has. So much that Microsoft has taken notice. Get enough people mad about this, and the potential is there, don't be shocked when you start seeing caches pulled by the owners or Premium Members versions increasing. Provided they are not hocking the coords for the PM caches. True one person will not make a hill of beans but keep pushing and enough people will go elsewhere to make a difference. I know I for one have grown tired of the one shot wonders walking off with entire caches (got an email from a finder about what to do with it once they got it home), travel items and such. We all take the chance when we put something out but Groundspeak is opening the floodgates to people that don't make any real investment or investigation into what the hobby is about. They are dumbing it down to nothing more than hide and seek. You may sleep at night looking forward to unnecessary maintenance trips but I sure as toothpicks do not.

Several things I am considering at the moment. Listen up Groundspeak. 1) Refraining from placing any new caches at all until I have more information on this device and what it uses for its filters. 2) Anticipating listing all future caches as Premium Members Only. 3) Archiving, moving, increasing the difficulty and relisting all existing caches I own (I paid for them, you only list them) and make them Premium Members Only. 4) Do all the above until the 'ohhhh ahhh' factor of this 'toy' has waned and yanked from the market. Yes we all take a chance when we release trackables. Even though I pay for fire insurance I don't let the kids build campfires in the living room either. You can put all the disclaimers in the world on this unit, its data, and whatnot. The fact remains all it takes is one good lawyer to ruin everyone's day and lives. I don't want to take that chance. From my observations the bad certainly outweighs the good in this device. As for PMOing any existing caches I have I could give a rip about the geomate device users convenience in logging the find. The 'its for the children' justification isn't going to float with me this time around.

The USPS shipment tracking bit is almost as reliable as Christmas mail. Every box I've had shipped through them with tracking came up empty. I don't even bother looking at theirs anymore.

Thanks guys, I knew we could a get a quick answer here ;D

We found this on a container check today and have no idea what it is. It isn't listed in the cache and the tracking code if it is one at all comes up empty.

I've found that it has almost got to the point where the only thing you can say is.. "There is a cache at this location." I know it frustrates a lot as well.

People will move other hitchhikers. Just not as often as a gc travelbug. We move any that we find as there really are not that many other tracking sites. The upside to your own is that depending on what you do it can cost less and be easier to replace the gc travelbug.

Just don't store a rare earth magnet in each front pocket and you'll be okay. If you do you might have a few problems later on.

I see them both fine. No problems from me at all.