CanUSeeIT

^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^ a thousand times over!!!

I guess the new announcement about Lists helps explain why all of the feedback given about the Search Map has been ignored. What's the point of having the community give you feedback if you release a 1.0 and then go off and start something else that nobody asked for? I'm not saying that the changes in Lists aren't good, but please, fix the problems you already have first.

Since the silence from HQ is deafening, we are left to speculate - so here's my speculation. The current Mystery at the Museum promotion requires filtering features that would've been difficult to implement on the "Browse Map", hence the "Search Map". Clearly it seemed like a good idea when the promotion was being designed, but this tool simply isn't well considered for most other purposes. I live in hope that after the promotion is over, HQ will be able to go back and pay attention to this (I'm scratching my head trying to think of a polite adjective) "feature", and acknowledge that it was a mistake. Again, I'm speculating that the promotion is part of the decision to leave this unfixed, but with no other information offered, speculation is what we're left with.

Seriously, has this even been tested? iPad and iPhone, all the latest updates applied.

We went through the same thing a few years ago when the "Official Geocaching App" didn't have the ability to download offline lists of caches or maps. Expecting an always-online connection may make sense in Seattle where the developers work, but it doesn't work out in the places where the adventures are. I'm surprised this oversight has been repeated.

The lack of this feature made the Labcaches useless at the ASP Geobash this past weekend. It was frustrating to lose this traditional aspect of the weekend. I understand the desire to prevent "cheating", but this change only served to disappoint the people who were trying to play the game properly.

This really isn't just an issue of "I don't like change" - this map simply does not work in too many scenarios... Considering the drive that HQ has been demonstrating in trying to "appify" the website, I looked at if from my shiney, modern, up-to-date iPhone... Starting from the cache page of a cache I found this weekend, as usual, I want to see it on a map. So I click on the "View Larger Map" link (because, frankly that little map usually doesn't show enough of the surrounding area to let me get my bearings)... Do I see a "map"? No. I see another version of the page I was just on. (Now, I do know that I'm actually on the new "Search Map" page, but because of the size of the screen and Responsive Design I'm only seeing the side panel.) Not only do I not see the map, I don't see any button that looks like it'll take me to the map. I have to guess that the button that looks like a "back button" will take me to the map. Ok, I guessed and tapped the button, and look! A Map! ... with no caches on it. Yeah. This isn't helpful.

I brought this up before the launch was final, and nothing has changed for the better. Not only is this design almost universally disliked, it very often doesn’t work correctly. See that little clump of caches in the top left? They are all supposed to be in that park at the bottom of the screen. The part that has an actual map. All I did the get this was scroll around and zoom out. Doesn’t seem like a particularly difficult test case.

I'm not sure what your point is. The app won't work there. So lab caches aren't going to work anymore. One of the traditional activities that people have enjoyed at this event is being broken.

ASP Geobash (GC7NM2W) - a long-standing Mega, in a location that has never had good cell service, and has had lab caches each year. The organizers have handed out paper forms for you to record your finds, then you'd have a week to log them online when you get home. This year I expect the lab caches are going to be a mess.

Maybe fix the problems first? None of the caches in this view are in the correct place.

This screenshot happens to be from my iPad. But it'll do the same thing on any device if you're crazy enough to try to scroll around, resize, or change the map layer. That's especially fun, when you're zoomed-in on an area and want to switch to the satellite view to see if the cache is in a tree, and suddenly the zoom is reset so you're looking at most of the state. My point is that there clearly has been little to no testing done. These problems are consistent and repeatable. And to release a low-quality feature like this to your users demonstrates a lack of respect to them.

I've done that. Many times. Sometimes it "sticks" for a few days, sometimes it doesn't do anything.

I never signed up to be a beta tester on the website, but more and more it feels like I’m forced into playing with half-baked features the developers start, then abandon. The “updated” logging is one example, where we lost the ability to use formatting, or write a NM log, and no improvement was ever made. But, golly, now it looks more the app. But this new map is just a joke. See those tiny tiny dots in Lake Ontario? I know, you have to look hard. Yeah, that’s not where the caches are. None of the dots on that map are in the right place. The MOST BASIC function of a map is to show where things are. Until these new “features” can do even the most basic things properly, they should not be deployed to a production system. Please stop making your users part of your experiments unless they agree to do so.

Yup, and you've just given a perfect example of why I don't want my logs rated, judged, scored, assessed, commented on, or anything of the sort. Because a feature like that will inevitably turn into a discussion forum. And I really don't need my thoughts on a cache quoted and commented on LINE BY LINE!!! Not everything needs to be commented on.

Favorite points are for caches, not logs. Different things, different purpose. Logs and favorite points are the "feedback mechanism" for caches. This would be a feedback mechanism on logs, therefore feedback on feedback. What's next, scoring the favorite points?

... the post you replied to was: I stand by my original point. Logs are intended to be a communication between the finder and the CO & future finders regarding the experience of finding the cache. I never want to write a log with the thought in the back of my mind that this communication will be judged in any way.

It absolutely is judgment. Even if you decide to say something is positive, you are making a judgment. And then Logs become like Forum posts. They are different things, and should remain so.

I'm going to give this one a big thumbs down. When I write a log, it's about what I thought about the cache, the find, the experience. My thoughts. No matter whether the ratings are positive or negative, I don't want my logs being judged. That's what this is. Judging.

Let's wait and see. It's only been about a week, and I wouldn't expect any sort of daily or even weekly releases. I'm not hoping for more releases. I'm hoping for it to be pulled down. It has become clear that this is Beta testing. And we didn't sign up to be beta testers. The original page should be reverted to being the default, and move this version into a test area, where it won't cause anymore frustration for the users who never chose to be part of this failing experiment. Then the Devs can continue to bang on it if they choose, until it actually manages to work they way users want it to. But it seems pretty obvious that the smarter thing to do is to step back to the beginning and ask themselves "Why do we still think this is a Good Thing to do when our community clearly disagrees?" Answer that question first, then share your answer with the community. Then start over.

It seems as though they aren't listening to their customers' feedback at all.. As much as that's a popular opinion currently, it's simply not true. It may feel like it based on the intensity of desire to see certain changes and updates, but GS most certainly has listened to many comments and criticisms. Maybe not necessarily what many want to be heard more, but it's not fair nor beneficial to make blanket exaggerated criticisms. Be fair, for the sake of all of us and our hopes for reasonable discourse and their addressing of our concerns If they are listening, they must surely have seen the many requests for clarification on whether the removed functionality (multiple photos, captions, informative NM/NA logs, encryption, etc.) is intentional or just hasn't been implemented yet. Keeping us in suspense like this on matters fundamental to our ongoing enjoyment of the game is cruel. I don't know if I'd use the word "cruel", but it is certainly an awful way to handle Customer Service.

Sorry, but blaming this on "old code" doesn't hold water. Code is written to create features. Features can be recreated with different, newer, better code. What has been delivered is different and missing features. For some unimaginable reason you have chosen to completely change a set of features that worked well, in the name of "fixing old code". Come on. Admit to yourselves that this didn't work. Pull this feature. Put it back the way it was, LISTEN to your USERS! Then come back and try it again.

I have a growing list of pending Drafts that won't be logged for a while. Sorry CO's. Yes, I had a lot of fun finding your caches, and I really do appreciate you hiding them. But you won't be hearing about it for a while, not until I'm able to complete these logs in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm being punished.

It seems telling to me that Lackys have been responding on this thread to issues that could be considered "technical" in nature (page load times, date format settings bugs, mistakes in release notes, etc.) Those are tactical issues, and easy for an "engineer type" to address (I know, I am one of those) But there are no responses to the "why" comments. Why is this being done? The overwhelming response from the community is that we don't like it, and if you think you can just write that off as "yeah, well, people don't like change", then I can tell you that is completely wrong. Users want improvement. And this is not improvement. And we see no good reason why it's being done.

Groundspeak, you need to listen to this. We did not volunteer to be beta (or alpha) testers. This update needs to rolled back from production. If I had imposed a change like this to my users, I'd be looking for a job right now.