M 5

The guidelines are clear that you are supposed to sign the log, the only problem is that it is realistically uneforcable to make CO's follow the rules, since in this day an age, everyone thinks they know better and can follow the "play as they want" mantra. Lax rules (guidelines, whatever) and lax finder and hiders, just lead to a sloppier and sloppier hobby overall. Most of the issues have always been around, just getting worse. Not only by increased involvement, but I believe in greater percentages on top of it.

Give cachers penalty time for wrong coords. I'm only sort of joking

Cache hunters need to be respectful of the area they are hunting. Any cacher who doesn't is a detriment to the game. I absolutely know that there are bad cachers that will tear an area up. That is the cache hunters fault, not the hider. Another reason I have lost a lot of respect for the hobby. When I first started and began getting involved in events (donations) and gaining permission for hides, I would always tout the respectful nature of the hobby participants and how caching is good for an area. I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face now that I know better. You also said you would stomp the local flora into the ground. Great Job, you are an awesome ambassador for the game.

That you will inspect the stones, and then throw them away, tells me all I need to know about what type of cacher you are. Glad your not hunting in my area.

Then post a note instead of an attended. The new challenge guidelines stink!!! A challenge isn't a challenge, if you can just stumble into it in your normal caching. It limits my enjoyment not having challenge caches of that nature allowed anymore.

Not a good rule at all to me. I put fossilized shark teeth in caches and people love them. Some are sharp and I doubt a mom would like me to give it to a toddler, nor would I. Go ahead and do it. Seriously. That's exactly what we need. There are enough caches thought to be bombs, we might as well put weapons in them. Or why not drugs. A good guideline is; Would most people let a 7 year old buy it from a store? No? how about; can it hurt someone? or; Is it against guidelines? If you just want someone to agree with you, you're in the wrong place. Go ahead an do it, as in go ahead and put fossilized shark teeth in a cache? Ok, no problem, I do it all the time. As far as the pocket knives go, I think there are many who will agree with me, and already have. I let my 7 year old have a pocket knife, which he uses under supervision!!! and he doesn't wander around finding geocaches by himself either. I rather he knows how to respect it from me, than play with one that a neighbor kid has, which if MUCH more likely than finding one in a cache.

Not a good rule at all to me. I put fossilized shark teeth in caches and people love them. Some are sharp and I doubt a mom would like me to give it to a toddler, nor would I.

So a random unsupervised muggle kid, is at more risk for a pocket knife in a cache. Got it

Yeah, but that is just a guideline, right? This part kind of makes it sound like a "rule" ..... Oh, so that is one of the guidelines that is really a rule. Is that why they use "may" twice in that policy. OK On a serious note, while i was poking fun at one of my Groundspeak policy peeves, some of the "guidelines" are supposed to be more rules than guidelines. I do not like that "rule" and personally think that pocket knives are a great swag item, others have concerns and Groundspeak has chosen the cya approach I guess.

Yeah, but that is just a guideline, right?

See if you can use a steel cable in an ammo can to keep the casual pilferer from taking it. Use rubber washers to reseal any hole you drill and hopefully you can attatch it to the camera where the lanyard goes. Crimp the cable on both ends. Not fool proof, but will give it better chance

Does this sound responsible to anyone here? Just askin. How did being FTF factor into that story? Sounds like it was way after it was published, and I have a feeling that the next finders will show the same 4X4 trail mentality (not ftf mentality) to get to the cache Did you miss the parts about 2WD in a 4x4 park? Bald tires? Likely a very inexperienced driver? It's their luck they didn't get stuck because they would have probably been banned from the park for that. You must know nothing about 4X4 trails, sounds like fun. Banned for getting stuck, that is a good one. WOW!

Does this sound responsible to anyone here? Just askin. How did being FTF factor into that story? Sounds like it was way after it was published, and I have a feeling that the next finders will show the same 4X4 trail mentality (not ftf mentality) to get to the cache

I find the attitude of a vocal few on the forums about FTFs to be a very tiresome. I feel there are a lot more, and worse, bad practices than the FTF hunt. I will admit that I have seen a couple of occasions where the FTFers hacked me off some, but Id like the weigh the pros and cons Pros: Fun (for many) to get FTF honors Friendly competitionThis can be another subject, I know, but I have a ton of fun competing with my Geocaching friends on not just FTFs, but certain hides and stats Find the original hide as the CO intented No geotrail FTF prize occasionally Swag before deterioration (most of the time) Most likely time to meet other cachers (I have personally made some good friends this way) Pre spoiler logs Probably Dry Logbook Some caches/COs disappear really quick Lots of caches start out with TB/geocoins and the inventory is probably the most accurate it is going to be. Cons: Some cachers will break rules. This should have been addressed in the new queue process available for the reviewers that I have been proposing for years and if used correctly should bring this con down very low and quite frankly seems to be a major contributing factor in this case. I bet just as many, or more cachers will break the same rule in the future for this threads hides. Bickering over FTF honors from time to time. Not a big issue in my book. Beta testing coordinates. Got better after the second phase of iphones, but is still an issue. I'm sure I missed some on both sides, but this is all I thought up on the spur of the moment.

I don't carry them, but a nano log roller tool and tweezers if you are putting a kit together, with BASIC cache maint supplies. (baggies, golf pencil, spare log, paper towels, electrical tape) not containers!!!!!!

This will be our local group (TAG--Tulsa Area Geocachers) 10th annual as well. I didn't know this was the 10th official annual. I started in 2006, well after the CITO that year, but even though a lot (most) of the names have changed, I'm glad our group has kept it going. There are probably a bunch of groups that have had one every year, but I was surprised that our little (medium) sized town in Oklahoma was on board since the beginning. I can only think of two that are still active, but several of the founders around here were around within the last couple of years. Maybe we'll get them back at a later date.

i love bugs, but if I got spammed in the forums this way I'd toss your bug in the trash. You're going about this in the wrong way... I like how someone calling this spam and then stating they would throw the bug in the trash can actually tell the poster that they are going about it wrong. Awesome!!!

Most power trail logs are cut and paste. "helpful" thoughts should include possible negative results, thereby giving the CO realistic expectations and possible tactics to avoid some of the pitfalls. If the CO doesn't care about some of these, then great, but the warnings have been given and those power trail practices won't be a surprise.

Sounds like a littel confusion here to me. The old style powertrail was just caches on a trail close together. not necessarily 528 feet apart and not specifically the same hide or container. The new style powertrail is primarily micros, 528-600 feet apart that are PNG's with the same hide and containers. Just mentioning that you plan to put this on a multi-use trail will most likely negate the png, unless it parallels a road as well. So in my opinion, since you are taking out the aspect that appeals to most new style powertrail cachers, I would mix up the hides and containers and use appropriate spots. i.e. go ahead and start looking for the next good hiding area after 528, but don't force it in, if it takes 750, 1000, 1500 or whatever.

I would definitely sign the FTF section if I found it after you.

Care to give us a GC code to the offending cache?

All you can really do is look at: - size / difficulty / terrain rating (micro / D: 1-1.5 / T: 1-1.5 is often a code for caches that won't crease your dockers.) - look at an aireal photo of the area and if it's concrete, you are pretty safe from ticks or mud - notice that you are driving into the parking lot of a big box store All these things are hallmarks of park-n-grabs. It is not difficult to find these most places. By the way - there is really nothing wrong with the outdoors. It's nice out there! I understand though, that sometimes it is convenient to want to play, but not find yourself outfitted for it. ZACTLY! Today I was out in the woods and the beach and all over... but SOMEtimes I click "find nearby caches" and think "oh, this one will just be quick - it says 'cache & dash'... and then I'm dragged into a half mile hike for a micro hidden in a log that I gotta hop over a creek to get to"... and I come out thinking "that wasn't exactly a QUICK cache! And what would have been FUN if I had on jeans and sneaks is not soooooo much fun in pumps and slacks. Maybe we should have a "dress code" rating! I seriously have my doubts that there is an abundance of caches that are designated in the title or description as "cache and dash" and lead you into a half mile hike into the woods

Seems pretty clear to me that if it is archived, then it is archived and should not be logged.

I've had fun finding archived caches, that being said, I wouldn't log them as found. The only way I would, is when I found the cache while active and they archived it before I logged, and I was online logging within a few days of finding the cache. I think leaving geotrash is wrong as well, but that is a separate issue and these days can get complicated. It is much more likely to be moved and the owner couldn't find it, or was gone/removed and a throwdown was placed than it being listed at another site. There is not shortage of geolitter, it has always happened, just at a higher rate now as a product of more cachers and easier/cheaper ways to geocache.

There are no rules, only guidelines