topflitejr1
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Posts posted by topflitejr1
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I'm guessing that Deb has been "cruising" the GEOCAC site and when she comes across those recoveries that are well logged, she'll grab their pics and spot them on the NGS site. TillaMurphs, you made your GEOCAC recovery sound like it was a quick "Park and Grab"in this forum, but in reality, you wrote up a fairly detailed and concise log. Is Deb honoring us for that extra effort that some of us are putting forth?
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Uh oh, Looks like things might be getting a little out of hand.
Let me switch the topic a little and start by adding that I find both activities can also be a great way to relieve a little stress or frustration. If a project isn't going well, set it aside for the time being and work on something else for awhile. If possible, get out and do some geocaching or Benchmarking-it works for me. Yesterday, I was looking for some Marks in the local Mountains and couldn't find one that was easily found a couple years prior. Then I remembered that someone had placed a Geocache nearby. -
No Need to apologize HD. I enjoy pics of the New York Skyline. That one is a very good shot. It beats out Downtown Los Angeles anyday. Anyone have any shots of Downtown Minneapolis ( my personal favorite)? Wish I was into Benchmarking when I lived there.
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Fascinating stuff George!
A couple years ago we were visiting some acquaintances of ours in the foothills above us here in the Antelope Valley. After dinner and a few drinks, they started telling us that a few nights previous, they saw lights off in the near distance. They said that the lights were some secret covert Gov't ops and that their Headquarters was the building higher up on the hill (ok- maybe they were putting us on, but they never copped to it and they kept straight faces the entire time). Understand this- The Antelope Valley has been thought by some to be another Pensacola Fla. or Roswell NM type place. Anyway, I'm thinking now, what they might really have been observing, was a night op, first order Benchmark Survey.
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m&H, Klemmer and TB Mama, bill , Renegade-I think you've hit it right on the head. The thrill of the hunt, with a little history lesson thrown in. Put on your Sherlock Holmes hat, turn around, and hit the trail again- that's how I approach hunting for BM's. Renegade, do I sense a little philisophizing thrown in too? Thanks everyone...would love to hear more!
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Not much action on this Forum the past couple days. So, I thought I'd post a question for all you Benchmarkers. What differences have you noticed between the two? I consider myself a Benchmarker first and a Geocacher second. Like many of you, I started out Geocaching and discovered Benchmarking soon after. Ready...wait for it......Go!
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Testing...1,2,3
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Back in the 70's, my Dad chose a CB Handle that reflected his occupation and favorite hobby. He was a Navy Pilot and he loved to golf. Cleverly, he chose Topflite. Sharing his interest in airplanes (but not the golfing) and to carry on the tradition so-to-speak, I chose Topflitejr1.
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I'm getting it too. My guess is that it will go away soon, if not, there may be a problem that will have to be dealt with.
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I just finished logging my Saturday finds on GC, after trying all weekend. Looks like it's back up and running again.
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I bess not go binchmarkin round moonshine Kuntry, less they think Im a revenoor.
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TOF's, I just noticed the mileage on your GPSr. Is that "original" miles, or have you rolled it over more than once? Hope your not leasing it cause they'll hit you with some serious penalties when you turn it back in to the Dealer. Maybe you can do an Ad for Magellan and it could go something like this; "We've been through several vehicles over the years while Benchmarking/Geocaching, but We've only used one GPSr and it's a Magellan-nothing but the best for us!"
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... You check sidewalk curbs and culverts for the paintd "BM" and look for possible WP's and concrete Monuments and look at all Carsonite sticks for "Survey Marker" sticker even when you aren't hunting and just driving to and from work or whatever. I gotta stop this I might rear-end someone someday. BTW does anyone else try and read ALL Carsonite sticks, no matter what color they are, even though most Survey Marker sticks are Orange? I have finally learned to give up on anything colored Blue which means water line or meter.
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Walking after work yesterday (near and in Disneyland), I was having fits with my Delorme PN-20. Took way longer to lock up than usual, and EPE was poor all late afternoon / evening. Track looked like I was wandering all over the place (well, more than usual
). Checking emails this morning, found the reason:Darn sun! No harm done yestereday. Glad I wasn't trying to get accurate coords for something.
More info:
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/rt_plots/kp_3d.html
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/nav/gps.html
Klemmer quick summary: It's not the sunspots themselves, but Coronal Mass Ejections (CME) which may occur from sunspots, that tweak the heck out of the Earth's geomagnetic field. That interferes with GPS reception in several ways, over most of the dayside of the earth. There are other effects (particle disturbances to the ionosphere, etc), but at present those are only effecting the Northern US, Canada, and Alaska. So the northern folks get it double bad.
Get ready for more of this, as the sun gets lots more active in the next 3 years +
Don't depend on your GPS if you are out in the boonies. Hear me Wes? Have back-ups (paper map, compass, your own situational awareness while hiking, etc).
Anyone else have issues yesterday?
Yup, same thing here. I haven't been able to get better than 23 feet accuracy when typical has been 7 or 10 feet. It has also taken MUCH longer for my GPSr to lock on (Magellan Explorist 210) with clear 360 view on a high hill.
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topflitejr1 -
Yeah those PIDs were a bit confusing as to what they were. Usually a CORS PID says it's a CORS. I think the NGS also doesn't need recovery reports CORS stations. In a way, they are being recovered constantly.
For logging them on this site, I think taking a picture of what looks like its satellite antenna is sufficient, or even saying you saw the gadget or some part of it without providing a picture would be a sufficient log. I haven't logged one of these myself, but I would do it from a distance if I did. They look sensitive and expensive so I wouldn't want to get very close even if I could.
Black Dog Trackers, Wintertime, Klemmer&TBM and DaveD, I give you all a "10" for informative responses. I now have a greater understanding on CORS sites. Reminds me of the time I had my wife look for a BM for me at the school she works ( she is a school nurse at Lake LA School about 12 miles away). She said that there were no disks, just a funny looking instrument with a fence around it. Knowing that she knows very little about BMing, I drove out to see for myself, and only saw the "funny looking instrument" and no BM's. When you look it up on the GEOCAC website, it says "No PID's listed..." So I gave up on it until I came across a "funny looking Instrument" again at AB5060/61. Turns out there are a few more here in the Antelope Valley, which should make for good "drive-bys" and to add to my count. I won't bother wasting Debs time by reporting them to her. Thanks again everyone-Ken
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Around here, many are inside various local city or county maintenance yards, and so are not very accessible. Personally, I rarely log them. Certainly no need to do so in the NGS database. Their position is well known!
On GC.com, I suppose if you lay eyes on them, or better yet get a picture, a log is appropriate if you want.
So I guess that I was looking for the CORS site and not an actual disc then. Funny that there are two different PID's for the same site. Thanks for your help again and to Dave.
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I went to AB5060 and AB5061 , and found EV3853 LIME, an Earthquake Research Station (LIME II) and a Gravity Station (PBB20). I could not find any BM's for AB5060 or AB5061, but did see a green fiberglass box and a GPS looking device about 8 feet tall. It was a small half-dome mounted on four fixed legs (quadropod?). The coords on my GPSr were within 6 feet of the given adjusted coords. Is this a CORS site or BM that I am looking for?
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Thank you all for your excellent and informative responses. I like Prime Suspect's idea on leaving the laptop in the car and taking the hanheld into the field and I will hide the laptop when away from the vehicle. I usually can park close to the BM when using my 4X jeep anyway. I have also come across the Magellan Crossover, which seems to do everything I want. I'll have to look into it further. Any hands-on reviews out there? Thanks again all!
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I want to use my laptop for Benchmarking/Geocaching and as an Auto Navigator. is there a PCI card or other hardware and software that will allow me to do both?
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Legendary?????!!!!!
Yup! Legendary: well known; famous or renowned.
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From my experience, it can go various ways. Examples:
1) You may find the original, like this drill hole from 1899, never found before: FS1138
Klemmer tips his hat to the 2oldfarts, partners on that one. Two others similar ones are nearby.
or
2) A disk has replaced the original marker, the date is retained in the records, but not on the disk, like TZ1974
from 1862.
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3) A disk has replaced the original marker, the date is retained on the disk (check the picture & datasheet), but sometimes the records are a little messed up, like TZ2013. I think the datasheet should be monumented in 1860, but that's just me!
Regardless of how it shakes out, the really old ones sure are fun!
Wow! a response from the Legendary Klemmer & Teddy Bear Mamma and The Rockhounders both in the same day! (I'm not worthy!!) Thank you very much. I clearly have a much better understanding now on advanced Benchmarking or would Post-graduate Benchmarking be a better term? Yes, the older BM's can be much more challenging and can require more investigative work to find and decypher. You and the Rockhounders are awesome. Thanks again, and by the way, next time you pass through Page, give a little wave just West of the airport to my sister and her family (AZ Condors) as they are aspiring Geocachers/Benchmark hunters in need of a little Inspiration. P.S. notice that I didn't ask how you got onto San Clemente Island *wink*
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So, my second question is: If I recover a Disk with the original Monumented date stamped on it (with no RESET stamping), can I log it as Found using the original Monumented date?
The simple answer is yes, if the description says it is a disk. If there is no mention of the disk in the description, then you did not find the station.
Does the description say that the bottle was removed? Does it say the disk was set above the bottle? If not then the bottle may still be there.
Like some Triangulation stations with underground marks, it all depends on what the description says as to whether it is a reset or not. If the underground mark is intact, but the surface mark is reset, is the station a reset? Technically no since the underground mark is the actual station.
I'm referring to the official description on the benchmark page when i say description.
The Rockhounders come through again! Thanks for the reply. But to clarify your answer to my second question; If I were to find a Station monumented in 1887 with a glass bottle buried 20" underground and the Station was recovered in 1933 with the bottle remaining in place, but a disk stamped 1887 ( with no RESET) placed directly above the bottle at the surface *as he catches his breath, hoping no English teachers are reading his loooong sentence*, I can log the station as found as long as all the above is mentioned in the details. Correct? Thanks for your patience on this one.
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There's really two questions here:I have noticed that most pre-1900 BM's along the coast of California were Monumented by burying 1 or more glass bottles 6" to 3 ft underground. Question #1 is, How were these Stations used? Many of these "BM's" were later recovered and a Disk was placed directly above the bottle(s) and the original Monumented date was stamped on the Disk. So, my second question is: If I recover a Disk with the original Monumented date stamped on it (with no RESET stamping), can I log it as Found using the original Monumented date?
1) How were they supposed to use these markers? The markers in question were triangulation stations and they were buried (so I have read) to discourage locals from digging them out and taking them home. They were used by subsequent parties which followed careful directions and diagrams and dug and dug until they found the station. If they couldn't find it - it was lost. Later on they would put an underground AND a surface mark and dig up the underground mark ONLY if the surface mark was missing. Nowadays with GPS stations, they set ONLY a surface mark. Such is evolution.
2) The question of dates and RESETS is inconsistent and confusing. I think most would agree now that when a monument is replaced, even in the sem spot (such as mounting a disk in a hole in a rock) the designation should add the word RESET. But either the rules were less well spelled out in pre-1900 or they were not carefully followed. The worst example I've found is this one: KU3532 Prospect Water Tower 1903
First - the tower was torn down in 1930 and local surveyors had preserved the position and placed a monument where the original tower stood.
Second - in 1937 the land was relandscaped and the monument was reset 8 feet lower.
So this one should be called " Prospect Water Tower 1903 RESET RESET"
Go figure!
Be happy when you find one of these stations. Be even more happy if you find one with the original monument The ones still left would tend to be copper plugs - I'm sure no one is likely to fins a 150 year old bottle a foot underground!
Thanks Papa Bear, It made sense to bury the "marks" back then so that they wouldn't be disturbed, but what a hassle it must have been for them to have to hunt them down and dig them up to use them. Someone eventually got the bright idea to set the Marks more permanently on the surface ( good thing for us BM Hunters!) In the mean time, I will probably log these older ones as found on GEOCAC, as I find there Disks (with a caveat). I would guess that to officially report these to NGS, one would have to physically find the underground Marks.
Let me switch the topic a little and start by adding that I find both activities can also be a great way to relieve a little stress or frustration. If a project isn't going well, set it aside for the time being and work on something else for awhile. If possible, get out and do some geocaching or Benchmarking-it works for me. Yesterday, I was looking for some Marks in the local Mountains and couldn't find one that was easily found a couple years prior. Then I remembered that someone had placed a Geocache nearby.
). Checking emails this morning, found the reason:
Underground mark only
in Benchmarking
Posted
Awesome! persistance payed off! I like that an Intersection Station was used to help find the Mark. Take that you IS haters!