A.T.Hiker

Hi again - I'm really doing my research on garmin maps before I drop the cash - I currently use an older version of routable maps installed on my PC and GPS Map 60Cx - City Select North America V6. Does anyone know if I could just buy the City Navigator NT 2009 or 2010 update DVD and update that older product? Obviously, the update DVDs are cheaper than the full versions. My guess is NO, but I thought it worth a shot. Everyone's help has been awesome. Thank you.

Hi folks- A few more map questions: I am looking at the pre-programmed micro SDs offering City Navigator North America. I am wondering - can the cards be swapped from unit to unit, or does it become locked to one unit once activated like the DVD purchase? Both of my units should be compatable - the 60Cx and Vista HCx. So I'm wondering if I could cover both with one purchase. Also, is there any remaining room on the pre-programmed card to add topo maps? Thanks in advance for the help. -Paul

Well said. The one unit, non-transferable license aggreement is not well spelled out and is often learned the hard way (in your case and mine). It was a shame to lose the two-unit unlock agreement, which they used to have, some time ago.

It's not really his fault at all. It is a perfectly logical request to want to transfer the license from one unit to another - I tried to do this once too, unsuccessfully, when I wanted to upgrade my e-Trex legend to a 60Cx. Turned out I had to buy a second copy of City Select to work with the Cx, even though I had the same thing already purchased fair and square and installed on my computer. There should definately be a way to re-lock one unit if you at some point, decide you want to use the maps for another, better unit. Many of us on here probably own more than one GPS, and we shouldn't need to buy maps again at full price if we simply want to migrate our maps from one GPS to another.

Hi folks- I've been using garmin maps for some time now. I love the units and the maps are nice too, but I am well aware they have a pretty specific way in which their maps are to be used, which is the downside So, on to my questions: 1) What is the difference between city navigator and city navigator NT? Cabelas has both, and besides the NT version being $20 more, I could not see a difference from the package description. I believe both versions will function with the 60Cx. 2) I have seen map cards in target and best buy advertising lifetime North America map updates for the Nuvi for $119. Seems like a good offer. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? Any hidden catches that I would need to be aware of? My decision boils down to buying an updated map set to be used with my 60Cx (using City Select V6 now - sucks). OR, a brand new Nuvi with lifetime map update option. I love the Nuvis, but am not necessarily ready to retire my 60Cx yet either.

I've seen tracks like this on my Vista HCx. Same shape, but offset by hundreds of feet. I'm using the latest and greatest updates, although I don't remember the version numbers. I love the unit, except for this glitch. Also, it seems to still have a problem at low speed navigation (anything less than about 8 mph on my bike) - the speed jumps all over the place. I wonder if the two issues are related.

So, I'm just blowing off some steam in hopes garmin reads this. Our previous computer crashed and lost everything. Should just be a simple matter of re-installing mapsource city select and getting back my codes via my garmin account name and password. Simple, right?? After an hour and a half of reading through various error messages and attempting re-installs, I have given up. Even have GPSs plugged into the USB. I can get so far as to see all of my codes and unit IDs in unlock wizard and when I click next, it says "were sorry, that code is tied to another account". I guess I'll be on the phone with tech support for hours next week. Pay hundreds for map products and then have to jump through hoops of fire to unlock them. Thumbs down to Garmin on this. I did not have a problem the first time I unlocked my maps, but I am unable to re-install and unlock on the new machine. Anyone else with this issue? Any suggestions?

Reception and fix have nothing to do with air pressure readings. It should not be affected by GPS signals.

Thanks for your replies. Response to Julianh - yes, I know how air pressure works and the differences between ambient and barometric pressure. I am a field weather observer, so it's my job to know. That's how I noticed the ambient pressure plot was so screwed up. The unit is supposedly able to plot both. I am set to auto-calibrate and variable elevation, running software version 2.8 / 2.8. I appreciate aussiejoe's comments, and they make sense. It just plain doesn't do it right. I mean, look at my screenshots! It's like it's trying to trend it somehow over time and failing miserably. I guess this isn't a feature that would generate a lot of buzz. I attempted to use it for field observations, but cannot use it in it's current state. I will point out that the elevation plot works much better.

Have any Vista HCx owners besides me noticed that the pressure plot doesn't work? I get these wacky, woefully inaccurate pressure plots, with very bizarre data points. Check out these photos: From 0.04" Hg (the approximate pressure hundreds of thousands of feet up) to 2477.2" Hg (the pressure hundreds of miles down in the mantle). It doesn't even seem to plot ambient pressure correctly when I hike. All I end up with are these bizarre ups and downs that make no sense. Theoretically, I should see a screen that looks similar to my elevation plot, except reversed. The peaks in the elevation would be the lows in the ambient pressure. It's a shame because I would have use for the ambient pressure plot charts since I am into doing field weather observations. Should we start contacting Garmin about this? Or, maybe it's just my unit? Any discussion is appreciated. Thanks, Paul

Why are the state boundries such a mess? There are double or even triple boundary lines, in some cases spread a mile apart. Will it look like this on my GPS?

Most likely you will be asked to turn off a 60Cx/CSx because it resembles a walkie-talkie and therefore could be mistaken for a two-way radio by any attendant. You might have a shot with the Vista, although if your air carrier frowns on GPS use, they will know what to look for. With everyone and GPS these days, I'm sure it's been discussed extensively by more than one airline. I'm sure they can't be any more dangerous to aircraft systems than laptops, digital cams, ipods, gameboys, the list goes on. But that's just my opinion.

I hiked 6.5 miles with it yesterday under what I'd consider moderate cover. I'm running 2.8/2.8. I did not experience the drift issue yesterday. However, that blue error circle on the map screen does seem unusually large at all times. Not as large as I've seen when it drifts, but still too large when the unit is reporting accuracy to +/- 20 feet.

Ok, great, based on 2 positives, I may give it a try. Can someone post the link to the rollback in this topic? I haven't been able to find it.

There seems to be some negative feedback already showing up for 2.8 and 2.8, so I'm going to skip the upgrade. Could I roll back to unit software 2.7 / GPS chipset software 2.5 somehow? I found links to roll back the unit software, but am not sure how to do it with GPS chipset software. A few folks mentioned that GPS chipset software version 2.5 was the last reliable version? Maybe it doesn't actually matter what version of the unit software is running?

In a topic debated extensively, which seems to be the most successful software / GPS software version to use on the Vista HCx? I have Software Version 2.7, GPS Software Version 2.6 and am still randomly experiencing the drift problems, in some instances well over 300 feet of both horizontal and vertical inaccuracy. And, how does one go about downgrading the GPS software version should I go that direction? There are many forums blowing off steam, and rightfully so, but there seem to be some successes with certain combinations. Please share your experiences - today this thing had me walking 300 feet to the side of the trail I take all of the time, with a reported GPS elevation that was exactly 300 feet too low. Help is much appreciated.

There has been extenstive debate on this topic in this forum. I understand there is a recent update which I plan to try. I have experienced the drift problem three times, and it was the worst while hiking / biking in Acadia National Park. Off by several hundered feet which was only corrected by a power cycle. Suprisingly, no one has mentioned the altimeter. I leave mine in autocalibrate mode. Theoretically, that should be great and most of the time is. However, when I was having the inaccuracy problems, the reported GPS elevation was also off by several hundred feet (at one point, hiking around 400 feet - report GPS elevation 1145 feet). That never corrected, and continued to read consistnently 750 feet too high. So, the altimeter starts to recalibrate toward this erroneous value and the elevation data also becomes useless. I should mention that the same power cycle that corrected the drift also got the GPS elevation back around 400 feet. This drift problem occured twice, so I gave up and no longer use autocalibrate for the altimeter. Maybe just coincidence, but the GPS elevation was off by about the same amount that the unit was drifting off track. Just my two cents, since I've noticed this and no one else has mentioned it (that I have seen).

Paul, thanks for the reply. A few specific questions if I might. When you refer to speed, are you talking instantaneous speed or average speed as reported on the odometer page? I'm interested in the Vista HCx for two reasons: Better reception, my Venture Cx will lose signal in deep canyons The altimeter log, a barometric altimeter is required for logging The compass is a don't care now that I have 24K Topos inside the GPS. I use the odometer for trip info, not instantaneous speed. Any thought vs. my requirements? It's my belief that the root issue here is the chipset, a low cost automotive chip not well suited to low speed handheld use. A defect not correctable via firmware, hence given Garmin's clout, we'll soon see a better chip and I'm inclined to wait. Thanks MtnHermit- I am referring to instantaneous speed. I just did some experiments with the unit today on a nice, wide open acre of land. The instantaneous speed threshold appears to be around 0.8, 0.9 mph and will bounce around until you reach around 4 mph. The reception is great, although I've never tried a deep canyon, but indoors, it does hold a signal, provided your not in a deep basement or under a metal roof. The barometric altimeter works great. The only issue I've seen twice is that, for some reason, the unit gets a woefully wrong GPS elevation in it's mind, causing the barometric altimeter to autocalibrate incorrectly. A powercycle fixes this. Could've just been a bouncy signal. You can also easily manually calibrate. But, as far as operation, yes, the barometric altimeter seems to perform flawlessly. In my experiment today, I found accuracy to be good, as I waypointed a spot and wanted to see if it could continually get me back to that spot and it did - the first three times. Trials 4 and 5 both had me about 20 feet to the north of Trials 1, 2, and 3. I should've power cycled and tried a few more times to see what would happen, but I was running out of daylight. You may have a point about the chipset - we'll have to wait and see what, if any solution Garmin comes up with. One thing I did notice, while walking with it - it takes the speedometer a few seconds to register anything once you start walking, then will take a few more seconds to drop back to 0 once you stop, longer delays than I've ever seen on my 60Cx. Good luck!

The Vista HCx is a good unit - and will qualify for outstanding if they fix the bugs. You may find the Vista HCx is not the best at finding geocaches. It has problems navigating at walking speeds, a topic which me and may others have discussed on here. Quickly turning the power off then back on before you attempt to zero in on a geocache may help. Stay away from "fly by night" sights and spend the extra 25 bucks for peace of mind. Tigergps is supposed to be pretty good from what I hear. Good luck!

Software version 2.6/2.6 does NOT correct this problem. Well, OK, the odometer works better (sort of), but speed readings are still not reporting correctly under 4 mph and now accuracy has been comprimsed. Based on a few observations, the unit sometimes needs to "catch up" at slow speeds. When you walk, then stop, it will still show you walking for some time after you stop. Also, I think it tends to also have a delayed response once you start walking, and the speed "jumps" to catch up. Here's an experiment for everyone. Try turning the magnetic compass off. Walk forward slowly in one direction, with a clear view of the sky, and see if it is able to maintain a consistent heading on the compass page. I think it is possible to switch the magnetic compass off somewhere in setup.

Same here. The speed doesn't not work properly below 4-5 mph. That is an obvious problem that Garmin should have no trouble seeing by taking a few units out for a little walk. And the speed is broken whether you are under tree cover or completely in the clear. It sounds like it reaches across multiple units. Keeping hounding them. I e-mailed them and got a very generic reply "Thank you for contacting garmin international. We have recieved your request, and blah, blah, blah." They've got to know by now people are unhappy. This is a pretty serious flaw, and is probably connected to the double tracks that we notice while walking the same path out and back. Maybe we call and start asking for supervisors, managers, etc.?? I don't know what the answer is.

I didn't know an update was available beyond 2.6/2.6. What issues have been fixed that you are aware of?

I am not running custom maps either and I have experienced the problem. I'm using US TOPO 2008. I gather many service technicians for these companies are trained to point the finger. What's frustrating is that many of us are smart enough to eliminate common issues before calling tech support, since its normally a last resort hassle anyway. I've had similar issues with other electronics, including weather stations and laptop computers. Problems that they try to dance around. If the unit cannot determine slow speed movement that well, than I would doubt the accuracy of any slow speed movement or tracking. It must be frustrating for anyone that geocaches with it. They've got an issue with many of these units with slow speeds that's very obvious by watching the speed as you walk. Lets keep bugging them and eventually, they will fix it.

I am sitting here looking at an out and back hike with track logs that miss each other by a couple of hundred feet. It seems like it tries to correct itself after a while, but never gets it quite right, all the way back to the car. I'd put money down that it has to do with the units inability to accuratley track walking speeds. The speed reading doesn't stabalize until your doing at least 4-5 mph. Anything up to that, and it fluctuates wildly. While walking a steady pace today, I was watching mine fluctuate regularly from 1.5 to 3.8 mph and everything in between. That can't be good. I've gotten EPE of down to +/- 7 feet. I can believe that, so long as I have been standing still for a time. It seems this little unit knows where it is, but can't always figure out where it's going once it starts moving. I'm going to shoot an e-mail to Garmin tomorrow. While there are other, more important worldly issues to be concerned with, it, none-the-less, should work properly. I would encourage others to do the same. My 60Cx has never experienced any of this odd behavior.

Thanks for your pointers, no pun intended. I thought I was doing my best to hold the unit horizontially. And, I also noticed the arrow on the map page randomly flipping around. If you have the map set to "north up", the whole map will turn, all the while walking one direction. I will try all three of these things on my next walking adventure. Part of me still wonders if this is a vista or e-trex glitch. There have been a few posts where users have commented about difficulties with their compasses while trying to locate a geocache. If it behaves like mine, I can see why. Are you holding the unit horizontally when using the built-in compass? Garmin units with built-in compasses MUST be held horizontally for the magnetic compass to work properly, just like a conventional compass. (This applies even to the units with quad-helix antennas, which should be held vertically for optimal satellite reception. Yes, I know this may not seem to make sense - but that's the way it is!) Note that the more recent units with high-sensitivity receivers will give good satellite reception when held in just about any orientation, but you still have to hold them horizontally for the compass to work. In my experience, most users who have trouble with the Garmin compasses need to understand the three basic principles of correct usage: 1. Calibrate the compass after EVERY change of batteries, EVERY time you have moved a few hundred km, and it's not a bad idea to calibrate it whenever you are about to rely on it for giving you accurate directions. I find that a fresh calibration at the start of the day's work, together with a calibration of the altimeter, is all I need to do with my Summit HC. 2. Check the threshold spreed and time delay at which the unit switches from GPS track direction to magnetic compass and back again. I find it best to have the magnetic compass on whenever I am stationary or walking slowly, but use the GPS direction at higher speeds (driving / cycling speeds). Magnetic compass at less than 5 km/hr; GPS direction at greater than 5 km/hr works for me. I use a 15-second delay before switching to magnetic compass. Experiment to get your own ideal settings. 3. ALWAYS hold the unit horizontally whenever you are using the magnetic compass. It will give very erratic directions when held vertically or inclined. When travelling at a speed above the threshold speed, so that the GPS direction is being used instead of the magnetic compass, the angle of the unit doesn't matter, so you can dash-mount or handlebar-mount your unit at any convenient angle for easy viewing. However, if you stop long enough for the magnetic compass to kick in, the bearing displayed will be meaningless unless the unit is held horizontally, until you start moving quickly again, when the GPS direction will take over. Follow all of these golden rules, and the magnetic compass should work a treat - moving or stationary. Hope this helps!