Odyssey Voyager
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Posts posted by Odyssey Voyager
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the right of derivative art belongs to the copyright holder. simple. clear.
yes. i agree. i get it. duly noted. i have no argument. peace.
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just one more thing...for the record...anyone taking a direct copy of something and calling it their own created original, is wrong. plain and simple. give credit where credit is due. this comment is not aimed at anyone but it is aimed at everyone including myself.
the only point i was trying to make, is that we are ALL inspired by something or someone else. there are very very few completely original ideas. in fact, the very word "inspiration", has roots in an old belief that A Supreme Being "breathed life into" or "inspired" the very first human. whether you believe in a Supreme Architect or not (i'm not promoting religion here either)...we all must give credit to those who came before us in some way, shape, or form.
oh man, i'm digging a deeper hole for myself here, aren't i?!
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well, in this case the sarcasm was also aimed at myself! thanks for the well wishes.
sar·casm /ˈsɑrkæzəm/ Show Spelled[sahr-kaz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. harsh irony.
edit to add: after reading your comments again a second and third time, i realize that i may have been "reading into it" more than was really there. i can also see how my replies might have been viewed as "defensive". i will try not to use sarcasm online as it doesn't "translate" very well into written form. again...sorry if i offended anyone...it was not done intentionally. peace.
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...you are going to extremes to try and make a point - the point being it is ok to rip off other works for the sake of a geocoin. no, you can't rip off warhol, his work is protected by license. no, you can't rip off the simpsons, same reason....
i just don't get the concept of copying, making a few changes and saying it is ok for a geocoin. boggles my mind.
it is really a simple concept. i am not sure why you are protesting so loudly or are so defensive.
i am arguing for the principle of protected art, including warhol's. you seem to be arguing the other side.
BTW just because something is on the internet does not mean it is in the public domain. as i said before, and as you have pointed out, there are plenty of free sources for art if someone cannot draw something himself, wiki is one of them.
wow! you sure do get "hot under the collar" pretty quick!
first of all...all my comments after you posted yours were to be taken "tongue in cheek" and not to be taken quite so seriously. c'mon people...do i have to explain this?! really?!
secondly...the image i posted of worhols painting is available under "fair use" media. which means: "1. It is a historically significant painting. 2. The image is only being used for informational purposes. 3.Its inclusion in the article adds significantly to the article because it shows the subject of this article and how the image depicted is familiar to the general public. 4.The image is readily available on the internet. 5.It is a low resolution image. 6.It is not believed that this use will cause commercial harm to the copyright holder."
thirdly...i was very much joking when i said a worhol series of geocoins depicting worhol depicting americana should be made. again...just sarcasm...that i have to explain this is beyond comprehension...lol...i guess my sense of humor doesn't come across very well!
and finally...i am not arguing...not at all...not for you and certainly not against you. frankly, i have no argument at all. not with anyone on this forum. i can understand your point of view. i have expressed my own. i don't feel my opinion conflicts with yours, but you may not agree. oh well, thats your right. then lets agree to disagree.
no need for any drama. i was only being sarcastic. my comments were not directed at you or anyone else on this forum. if my comments offended you, then i offer my apology. i'm very sorry.edit to add:
link to "fair use" wikipedia information (may or may not be accurate):
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you know, after posting the andy worhol painting, i was curious as to how he got around the issue of using the copyright and tradmark of a commercial product. as we all know, copyright laws will vary from state to state and country to country, so this obviously adds to everyones confusion. anyway, from unverified information i read online, when worhol created the painting of the can of campbell's soup, the soup company didn't really care about the artist or his subject matter, and felt it was rather amusing and an honor to be considered an american icon. since the artist was NOT IN DIRECT COMPETITION with the soup company, they didn't sue in the court of law. however, AFTER the artist passed away, the company had an issue with the campbell's soup image being used to sell the artists works, and so the soup company AND the andy worhol foundation, actually AGREED to share copyright licenses and neither entity can now make a deal without the others permission.
hmmm...it seems compromises CAN be reached after all!
online source:
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now the real question is: did andy worhol have permission from campbells soup to create "pop art"?!
from the ever so trusted "wikipedia":
"Warhol's painting of a can of Campbell's soup cost $1,500 while each autographed can sold for $6. The exhibit was one of the first mass events that directly confronted the general public with both pop art and the perennial question of what art is (or of what is art and what is not)."
i can hear the gears grinding now...hmmmm...what about a series of geocoins depicting andy worhols pop art depiction of americana...YES! it's such a ripoff...IT'S INGENIOUS! have the simpsons done it, yet?! no?! what about south park?!
okay then, anyone want to reserve their campbell's soup shiny nickel artist edition right now?!
by the way, just so there's no issues, the soup label was changed from "tomato" to "chicken with rice." -
as to reinventing the wheel. of course artists should be reinventing the wheel, that is why they are called artists/architects and not draftsmen.
new car designers in detroit are going to hate you!
okay guys, the round wheel needs some tweaking, its already been done...oval?!...nah, the egg did it...square?!...nah, we would have to get permission from sponge bob, he owns everything square...isosceles triangle?!...hmmm, now your talking bill, keep working on that and get back to me! this may revolutionize the way we travel in the 21st century! now the real question is: did andy worhol have permission from campbells soup to create "pop art"?!
from the ever so trusted "wikipedia":
"Warhol's painting of a can of Campbell's soup cost $1,500 while each autographed can sold for $6. The exhibit was one of the first mass events that directly confronted the general public with both pop art and the perennial question of what art is (or of what is art and what is not)."
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isn't this what we are talking about in the other thread, using a cartoon that is created without permission from warner bros? i don't think this is legal.
are you using a photograph of a roadrunner that you took, or a photo taken by someone else of a roadrunner to create your coin?
rsg
i am so very glad you have asked this question! thank you for allowing me a forum to express my own view point, especially as it relates to my designs.
there seems to be some "gray areas" (legally and ethically) as to how a designer can use a works previously created by someone else. apparently, if you have an image that is "similar to" but not "exactly like" a copyright image, you can use it. the gray area is in "how much" you can alter an image to make it different. some images i've seen on geocoins are "significantly" different from copyright art, others (such as the roadrunner cartoon image seen on these older geocoins pictured above) are very similar to the copyright art! is it copyright infringement?! i suppose only a judge can decide, and only IF the owner of the copyright feels their toes have been stepped on. its all a rather SUBJECTIVE issue.
anyway, with all that being said, the beauty of the age we live in now, is that when it comes to design, we no longer have to "re-invent the wheel" each and every time we create a new design. what does this mean?! i mean, the difficult ground work has already been laid out for us to make designing much easier while still allowing us to be creative. let me give an example: an interior designer uses their creativity to make spaces more appealing to the people that occupy that space. do they actually make the furniture and art and colors they use in their interior design by hand? not necessarily. are they infringing on the rights of the furniture maker? most people would say "no". yet, an interior designer is still considered a creative person, maybe even a "artist" for designing living space.
my point is, we can use the tools available to design without losing the ability to be creative. i am an artist by nature. i can draw and paint. i could draw a roadrunner by hand if i wanted to, but personally, i don't see the point of "re-inventing the wheel" (going back to pencil and paper) when my paint program can do that so much more efficiently! so, anyway, to address your question, in my designs, i incorporate some design elements of clipart, perhaps even actual photographs, graphics, fonts, colors, special effects, to design the spaces on a geocoin. much like an interior designer. as a matter of fact, that is how i approach my geocoin design work, use the tools available to create a space that is appealing, efficient, and functional. much as the phrase associated with frank lloyd wright: "form follows function".
in the case of the roadrunner you will see on my geocoin, i have used up to 3 "free domain" photographs (that i would have probably used to draw the image with a pencil), and i cropped some elements of the bird from each photo, i then morphed the images together, through a difficult process of resizing, enlarging. and reducing. once i found a perfect fit, i used a special paint tool effect to create a black and white image, then another tool to render an ink like effect, then i went in with the paint tool and carefully removed and added details to make the graphic workable as a 2 dimensional piece of light and dark, capable of receiving metal and antique stain in contrast. the bottom line is, i spent many, many, hours using the tools available to create a new and totally unique design. did i use the work others had previously done to make my design easier? yes. am i worried that my final work will be compared to another artist? no. in my opinion, i have "altered" the original significantly enough to say, my work is my own through creative process.
the same principle applies to my previosly produced "trojan horse" design. you may find some elements of it somewhere else (the fonts, the geocaching logo, the anthemia graphic, etc.), but you will not see ALL of these elements combined and arranged in such a way as to create a totally new and unique final product.
some people here want a geocoin designed from the ground up. all hand drawn with a pencil or carved into a wall. some even think the geocoin should be minted by hand in a home made metal works shop with metal they mined out of the ground themselves. everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this matter of how original is original. however, my personal point of view is, make use of the tools available to make a design of your own, without "re-inventing the wheel". 'nuff sed. peace.
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Groundspeak is fully aware of what has been posted in this thread. Any further discussion in this thread should be in reply to the OP's original question, and not about the Pink Elephant.
ummmmm...no pink elephant discussion...
Who knows, maybe there's a Pink Elephant XXLE Tranquility coin out there somewhere...
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does anyone have an extra "smokey the bear" geocoin in copper finish? or a bronze? although, first choice would be copper. PM or email me for a possible trade or purchase. thanks!
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Has the artwork arrived? Can't wait!
i'm still waiting on the mint company to get back to me. china has like a hundred holidays, and apparently they just had another one recently, so all work stops! geez...if they want to take over the world, they are gonna need to learn from walmart...24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year! c'mon china!
anyway, i have my fingers crossed for some time this week. geocoin design is always such a "hurry up and wait" situation...lol...but haste makes waste, so i'll be patient.
sorry about the delay...but i hope this gives everyone a chance to save their pennies for this one! 
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Groundspeak is fully aware of what has been posted in this thread. Any further discussion in this thread should be in reply to the OP's original question, and not about the Pink Elephant.
ummmmm...no pink elephant discussion...no 800 pound gorilla discussion...ear muffs...ear muffs...ear muffs...
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Groundspeak is fully aware of what has been posted in this thread. Any further discussion in this thread should be in reply to the OP's original question, and not about the Pink Elephant.
darn it...and i was saving up for the "pink elephant" edition or the "800 pound gorilla" black nickel edition! oh well, i guess those editions won't be minted now.
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i was under the impression that "ignorance of the law" was no defense when re-selling items of questionable origin. for example, you find a great deal on what you "think" are legitimate DVD's, the person selling them tells you they are legal copyright originals, but when you go to sell them at the local swap meet, law enforcement impounds the whole bunch of DVD's and slaps on some shiny handcuffs as you are now under arrest for selling "bootleg" DVD's! your defense is: "the guy that sold 'em to me said they were legit, and if you hold up a 'real' copy next to a 'bootleg' copy, you can't see any difference at all, Your Honor." pow! 30 days in jail and $1000 dollar fine for ignorance of the law!
is this a realistic scenario? or am a way off base?
i know that the situation with the tranquility geocoin is different, but there was a question in another thread about the liability for selling or auctioning a counterfeit geocoin coming out of china (it was a cheap replica of a "knights templar" geocoin) and whether or not an ebay seller could be in trouble for selling or auctioning off "stolen property" (intellectual property in this case) even if they did not know the item was counterfeit or stolen.
there seems to be some gray area here, and in my opinion there are many authorized geocoins and pathtags that look an awful lot like replicas of copyright material, so i knew it would only be a matter of time before some sort of legal action occurred. in a way, its good to get some clarification on these issues, and start the establishment of guidelines, "rules", and even boundaries to the geocoin game.
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...do you have any idea when the unique icon will be uploaded for this geocoin? thanks for the update...
any news yet?!
any updates on the icon yet? a reply from the designer or hogwild.com would be appreciated at this point.
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ummmmmm...i guess he's not from around here...lol...
so...anyone have a list of all tranquilities produced?!
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FLYERS ADVANCE TO THE FINALS!
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i think many here at this forum will like this geocoin. you should consider a "reservation" list, and then determine your production number after you find out how many collectors would purchase one or more. this is just a personal suggestion. nice design!
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Well I have picked up my first tick of the season and am on antibiotics for it...If anyone has one for trade let me know.
are you looking to trade ticks or geocoins?!
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lol good to you
any news on philadelphia?
philadelphia and montreal play on monday (in about 24 hours)...
lol thanks!
if only I could understand this game
lol...its just like futbol...but they play on ice, with sticks, and no teeth!
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sometimes we all feel like the world is a topsy turvy place! a geocoin with proper directions, just for those occasions, will really come in handy!
hang in there!
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the buzz is all over the internet! rumour has it, theres a heretic here designing a pagan geocoin!!!! my satanic customers want it!!!!! they must have it!!!! it is so hard to please the finicky satanic bible belt these days!!!!
please laugh a little people...geocoins and geocaching are for the light-hearted...diplomacy when sprinkled with a little humor can move mountains!
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lol good to you
any news on philadelphia?
philadelphia and montreal play on monday (in about 24 hours)...
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BLACKHAWKS ADVANCE TO THE FINALS!
by the way, just so there's no issues, the soup label was changed from "tomato" to "chicken with rice."
Beep Beep! Naatsédlózii Roadrunner 'Cache Me If You Can' Geocoin!
in Trackables
Posted · Edited by Odyssey Voyager
i must say that i thought long and hard about everything discussed on this thread today, and indeed about all the controversy at the forum lately. i was concerned i might be violating someones artistic rights. i felt rather frustrated, and i thought about scrapping this whole project, even though i have worked many long hours on it. what to do?!
i decided to do the right thing, and track down whoever took the pictures i used in developing my design (even though the picture and the artwork aren't very similar anymore). i would decide whether to proceed or not with the project based on the replies i received. although 2 of the images have no identifiable owner, 1 of the images had a way of contacting the owner! so i emailed the photographer. here is what i wrote:
"hello Rhonda, my name is dave, i live in new mexico. the reason i am contacting you is that i recently saw one of your photographs online. your photograph is one of several that has inspired me to design and create a new roadrunner geocoin. i downloaded the image to my computer and i have used a few elements of this photograph and incorporated them into a coin design (see an attached draft file). i now know that this download and use was inappropriate. i am rather inexperienced as to copyright legal issues, but the geocoin forum members have advised me that i should ask all the owners of professional images i have used, for permission first, before producing a geocoin. even though the finished product looks very little like your beautiful photograph, i feel the only ethical thing is to ask before having it produced. if nothing else but for my own piece of mind.
a geocoin production is the only thing i would use the image for. nothing else. very few of these coins would be produced (perhaps 200 or less). they would be sold as collectibles, for a very small profit, and nothing else. my resources are very limited, and i cannot pay you in cash, but perhaps i could repay you with one or more of the finished geocoins? i know it is not much, but i think these geocoins will be very nice, and they may indeed be worth more as time passes. anyway, this permission is the purpose of my email. i anxiously await your reply. thank you.
~dave~"
and here was her reply:
"Dave,
I like what you did with my image making it into a geocoin, and yes I grant you permission to use this image for solely the purpose of making geocoins- and Dave I would be delighted to have a finished geocoin of the image as payment for its use!
Rhonda
The address you can use to mail me is:
Rhonda XXXXX
XXXX North Freeway
Tucson, AZ 85705
Dave, Good luck, and God bless!"
so, i was relieved to be granted permission. she will get a geocoin or more of her choosing, and i get permission to use the image, and an autographed glossy copy of the original photograph signed by the artist herself! i can sleep with a clear conscience tonight. now if the factory can only get the colors right!