Packanack

I received a reply from the Trail Conference, they will check and see if there is a particular location that they would like to have get some attention. This does not alter or amend previous Garrett Mountain discussion.

How many caches would it take to make this kind of mess. Photo from Norvin Green. Priorities are skewed. This tempest in a teapot mentality loses sight of one real factor and that is that the community seemingly is very much concerned about impacts and environmental issues. And no that is not an ammo can in the back.

The recent Backpacker Magazine, the one with New Zeland Cover, ran the article about Harriman, but the article was an attempt at humor, was mocking of those who enjoy the outdoors, was a goof on unintiated city folk, in fact pictured people carrying in plastic wrapped bundles of firewood. No one should mistake that article as authoritative vis a vis backpacking. Want a nice shakedown, walk to Glen Gray fromSkyline drive, pre arrange a reservation at the lean tos. Or Walk over from Ramapo County Reservation with your back on, it is done commonly. BTW, earlier in same mag there was an offhand swipe at geocaching, while at the same time, not likely to offend GARMIN, a major ad source. There is enough terrain change in each of the shakedown routes to keep it interesting. Also the Bear Swamp area is pretty, nice place to rest awhile.

sonny and cher laverne and the other one skully and mulder

Cache In Trash Out doesn't just happen once a year. It can happen on every cache hunt! Just bring a trash bag along with you on your walks in the woods and pick up the occasional piece of trash you see on the trail. I read the CITO again. It doesn't say that it has to be a place in time gathering. Maybe at the end of the line we could get to gether and offer the prize, which as it stands now is 1 Avroair Geo Coin. Points awarded, 10 points for each month of age, so a 6 month cache gets you 60 points, a 12 month cache gets 120 points, am I going anywhere with this or just spinning. Have a good weekend.

Any thoughts re: A CITO listing for a little friendly competition that would be restricted to our North Jersey area which would involve the cacher identifying and going to and logging in at the oldest caches, rarely visited or actually finding an abandoned cache. Would involve scrutinizing the list, looking for old ones, ones you haven't visited or don't own. Winner of the competition would be the one who finds to oldest, or the one that was last visited 2 or 3 years back. The object being to kind of self police our hobby and sport. A well respected voice in the community suggested that I seek some feedback , but does not think it will fly as a CITO as it does not have a gathering. AT lunch I went to one that was last visited 4 months back, so as a threshold you would have to beat that. This springs out of the forum talks re; caches abandoned. Suggestions ? Point system ?

No wonder it is in such good condition. I went up there to specifically check on it and I was amazed at its condition. Should have known.

I have camped at Glen Gray, they have cabins, leantos and they are very close to 36.8% of Briansnat caches in the Ramapo Reservation. They have brochures in Campmor/Ramsey Outdoor, etc. Closest cache, is Goathouse if I am not mistaken. Google the Bergen County Parks Department for a map and info. This was the oldest continuously operating Boy Scout Camp in the nation up to the time it was sold to Bergen County. The sale saved the land from development. A VERY NICE hike is from Ramapo Reservation up past Triple Tree, up Past Bear Swamp and over the cannonball trail to Glen Gray. About a 5.5 mile, we backpack that with boy scouts. Great recommendation. Close, yet still wild enough.

This is the type of thing that a land manager would seize upon to validate a policy against geocaching. And this is a strand running through all land use and management issues. The Deer Park area of Allamuchy State Park in NJ, used to allow people to drive down to the shores of Deer Pond. Fishermen, would leave copious amounts of trash on site, so the rule was changed, now if you want to fish, you walk in. Well now very few make the trek, so there is no litter and the manager has validated his approach. The way the community responds will either dispell that concern or reinforce a notion. My only suggestion is that a strict time frame be imposed for adoption, caches not adopted in say 45 days be picked up by volunteer. Surely a pick up--last find---note can be placed on the website requesting next cacher to pick up. I am running two caches, my ability would probably be not more than 10, given work, home, family, sports, etc.etc. One of the caches I adopted was in place for years. That cacher stopped caching years ago, his list still carries three others still out there, he has not posted or visited in a couple of years. I made it a point to go look for one of his others and surprisingly it is in good shape, but he certainly is not running it.

I will look into something for Garrett Mtn. but I can fairly well assure that it would not be in April as the date does not allow me enough time. So if anyone else wants to jump in, fine. I know I can not get it together for mid April--Sorry.

where doesn't matter as long as it happens, could always do it again in summer and again in fall.

That was exactly why I thought it would be a good place, to call attention to the stuff that has to be left behind, and you are right, it is a big mess. It clearly is beyond the scope of a trash clean up day, but it might get someone to take another look at it. Also the road area is easily traversed by all ability levels. Just thinking out loud. I stand corrected on High Mountain, I thought the TC gave up mapping and trail maint on High Mtn.

Because you asked last week, I sent an E Mail to Ringwood State Park, the manager of Norvin Green and asked if it would pose a problem. I of course did not receive a response. I also sent and E Mail to the NYNJTC inquiring if there was a trail that might benefit from this type of attention. For many years the High Mountain Area was just such and area, it no longer falls into the NYNJTC maint. area. I suggested Norvin Green because of the Burnt Meadow Road Area , it is easily accessable and seemingly attracts a fair number of roadway trash dumpers, there seems to be a fair amount of roadside trash that can be bagged and taken out. There are a couple of caches present in the area. Burnt Meadow Brook is a very pleasant walk and a nice hide. It was a happy moment for me when I found it, as it was kind of a validating point that I could actually find one of these things in the woods. On Sunday last past, I drove up to see about the conditions, I went into Burnt Meadow Road from the South end and there was a huge, I mean huge muddy lake in the middle of the road. I could not get past. But I do think that would be a good subject area, with perhaps a carry your own lunch hike up to the overlook of Lake Sonoma. But that is just me. I really don't think anyone would object to a group cleaning up along the road.

A little serious help, before the frivolity: 1. I found a couple of Avroair Geo Coins, one of which still sits here in my desk drawer, the other of which I placed in another cache. Have I violated some custom or protocol. (BTW, they are of high quality and aesthetically pleasing) Are they collectibles or are they cache trade items. 2. Why a geocoin to begin with, is it a substitute for Travel Bugs or a means of signing in at a cache. Where do they come from. 3. When does the design contest begin and should the submissions be placed on this thread for review by others ? Round or rectangle.

On second thought the track looks like where an oak leaf landed on the snow and was heated by the sun and melted a pattern. or perhaps it was a sugar maple leaf.

pekan or fisher marten North American marten (carnivorous mammal) Martes penanti about 1.2 m/4 ft long, with a doglike face, and brown fur with white patches on the chest. It eats porcupines. Whoa, I didn't think anything ate porcupines, except of course several of you guys..

Coyotes don't go 100 pounds, not even the largest Eastern. A 65-70 male would be extremely large for the species. Coyotes will however run trail, they are commonly seen running trails.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?man...oducts_id=3605& Buy the book and get the real story. Think you are scared now. Just Wait.

http://www.cacheintrashout.org/ Has info on how to organize. Probably have to identify a location that really is in need, such as Garrett Mountain or Burnt Meadow section of Norvin Green.

Mt Laurel bush ???? Low income bushes ,hmmm Oh, you meant Mountain Laurel. Just teasing, that was a great link for equipment. We camped at a group site, Cedar Ponds and then walked up to a shelter on top of a hill directly nort, blue blazed trail if I recall. Very pretty Alpine Meadow type of place. Near an unmarked trail called Bottle Cap , just up from Tiorati.

Cabela's store will be part of the Xanadu Project, which is years away. Cabela's store in Pa is the largest tourist attraction in the state.

[Are there wolves? ] Check on Eastern Coyotes, larger than elsewhere, some think that there may be a subspecies more akin to a wolf than the Western Coyote. BTW, Cougars have been known to travel more than 1000 miles, they have been sighted in Iowa and were thought to be moving east as Deer population increased. Bobcat ???

It is no longer refered to as a bikini wax, suggest you google a Brazil Job or a Brazilian. Sounds like it could be a geocaching event, everyone for a Brazilian. More seriously, about your tracks, March 1 is the traditional time for wake up of hibernating bears in the NJ area. NJ Bears do not truly hibernate. Temp is not the controling factor so much as is day light. Be on the look out for this is the time when they are most hungry and cubs have been born over the winter. There are bear reports in the High Mountain Area of Wayne Township, so you know they are now everywhere. Also, there is a move afoot for Sunday Bowhunting of Deer, which geocachers should be aware of.

Harriman State Park is administered by a bi state agency, the Palisades Interstate Park Commission, which just happens to be headquartered in --Oh, New Jersey. New Jersey dollars are very much involved. In fact the Sterling Forest Tract was another New Jersey originated acquisition, actually Passaic County did something right there. So do not think that your NJ politico has no intereset in PIPC, when it comes time to divy up the appointments they are all at the same trough. As in --"OH, the next officer on the Palisades Interstate Parkway is a NY appointment" and the next will be a NJ appointment. Got to know your players. Anybody ride a mountain bike in Sterling Forest ? Anyone cache in Sterling Forest ? To the former question, the answer is no, for the bikes are not permitted, notwithstanding the presence of many mountain roads that are particularly suited to biking. Bikers were told no , not now, maybe in a little while. Well it has been more than a little while This is the same thing all over again.

[Did they mentioned why they are negative? ] 1. They are part of a bureacratic structure. It is in their nature. They are not given to free flowing imaginative thinking. That is why they do what they do. Did you ever say to yourself that when you grow up, "I want to be a bureacrat, just so I can play head games with the public." 2. A user group advisory panel probably but the whack on the activity. Look to your traditional outdoor / environmental groups, i.e. What groups are perenially against expanding the use of public lands. 3. Power play, we are in charge here and you are not us. Them vs. Us mentality that has swept into all dealings of the governed and the governors. 4. Activity violates the Federal Law against the citizenry engaging in any activity that might remotely be considered fun or entertaining, thereby potentially giving rise to others seeking said fun. Seriously, 7 years ago, when I was asked to serve on an advisory panel that was going to be involved in the construct of a rail trail I jumped at the chance. Our mistake was to simply tell the people what we would like to see it become reality. It was to run from Wayne to River Dale. Our simple advice was that we would like to see it built, just get it built, cinder path would be fine. Well that was not good enough, the bureacrats started with, will it be safe, will it be lighted, will the lights be antique style, what about vandalism, should it be paved, should we have park benches, should we put in planters, should we have brick pavers as accents. Should users be required to sign in, who will police it, who will clean it etc, etc. etc. You get the picture, there is now no forward movement, because there is no path in any form. Passaic County remains the only County in the State without a dedicated bike path or rail trail. Around the same time, I was involved with maintaining a section of trail under the guide of a certain conference with initials that escape me at the moment, I was also involved with the riding of a bicylce that had wide tires. I learned then and there that when an irresistable force hits an immovable object that the result is not pretty. The bikers lost on almost every turn for the hikers viewed the land as exclusive to themselves and they convinced the powers that be that if that other unsavory element is allowed in a catastrophic shifting of the climate would result. Eventually, the Public Land managers were forced into setting aside certain areas for the use of bikers, and even now ATV afficianados are getting their spaces. If you scratch the surface of this one, you will find that you are fighting the same battle over again. It may be John Muir's eco offspring or a well lettered group. But someone is influencing the outcome. It is Public Land afterall, it does not belong to the ranger. A letter to your state senator or the like is probably appropriate. Politicians have a thing about letters, they pay attention to them, Not so with E Mails or Phone Calls.