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Packanack

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Everything posted by Packanack

  1. The cache: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC42HKX# I don't think he logged a DNF, and there was a FTF logged on 12/11 . Which just goes to show you don't be a FTF Hog, you may wind up in the news.
  2. OMG. scrolling the thread and hit Harry's post and I see the line that I was actually thinking. They pay people for this ? It is endless tweaking . And Harry is right. Start doing Harry Dolphin Puzzle Caches and you start thinking like him. Scary.
  3. +1 The wow factor was a canard to allow for e discontinuance of new virtual listings so that transition to Waymarking could begin in earnest. It was part of the development of a business . some people want virtuals, Groundspeak will eventually, IMO, find a way to provide them in a form consistent with the want and consistent with the need to produce revenue . Just because the first two attempts have face planted doesn't mean the next won't soar. I like an idea where the sell virtual licenses similar to premium membership. It will be interesting to see.
  4. If someone had found a way to make it a real cache, it would have been an act of desecration.
  5. Interesting. As if the grass you walk on and bush you walk through cares whether you're there for a virtual or a real cache. So you never would have found it if someone found a way to make it a real cache?
  6. Wonder what was wrong with the half of a virtual cache that was not a favorite? I'm puzzled when people use this argument. The wow factor was introduce to virtual caches for a reason. The stated reason was that since there was no cache to find, the reward should be the location itself. (More likely the wow requirement was applied only to virtuals because virtuals were cheap and easy to create, so often people were hiding these instead of contributing to the numbers of phyiscal caches placed. The wow factor made creating virtual caches a littler more difficult by requiring the cache owner to convince the reviewer there was something unique about the location. There have always been geocachers who are attracted to this game because it takes them to new and interesting places. One the other hand there have always been geocaches who are attracted to the this game because they like find caches (even ones hidden in less tha inspiring places). Allowing virtual cache to be placed anywhere would result in many of these getting placed simply because there are even easier and cheaper to create than putting a film can in lightpost. In spite of the wow requirement, people continued to submit these locations as virtuals. The reviewer probably denied 99% of every 10 virtuals that go submitted. The ones that did get published were truly "wow". Interesting hypothesis. Groundspeak certainly decided early on that they would be the language of location. The would expand from geocaching to other GPS based games and GPS databases because they saw this as a growth area. Some initial ideas were tried out on Geocaching.com - benchmarks, virtual caches, and locationless. Later they saw that these were somewhat different than the original concept of geocaching. They started looking a different solutions for these and other applications. It is puzzling, however, at the way they abandon these other projects when they aren't immediately as popular as geocaching. Because of the financial drain in keeping them up and going while waiting for the revenue to start. In all higher end ventures there is a revenue projection coupled with time lines, when revenue does not meet the projection time line the analysis shifts to a question of throwing good money after bad or trying to rework the product to make if more profitable or attractive. In the case of challenges that was an insurmountable hump. I set up 10 challenges and they were trashed off the bat, I did 30, but also saw no back up interest from locals. Even my caching group could not be encouraged to get behind them. What is difficult for cachers to understand is the possibility that Groundspeak withheld the virtual from geocaching to further their own revenue stream. I do not find that so hard to understand from a business standpoint, it makes good sense from a business standpoint. Marketing another vehicle and possibly add additional revenue. Groundspeak is a business, it is not the activity of geocaching.
  7. I dont think that this really had to do with container or no container, virtual or physical. I think the decision was made by Groundspeak as a business to try an exploit the resource of alternative geolocation forms as alternative web sites to see if they would achieve the level that has been achieved by Geocaching.com. Money is to be made in clicks and hits and sales of ad space and products of advertisers, more websites from the developer theoretically means more money to the company, provided the cost to support the site and servers is not prohibative. Groundspeak is not geocaching they are a business servivng geocaching. To think that they would not seek profit in all permutations of the games surrounding that hobby is a little naive. So they tried to move virtuals into other profict potential categories, Waymarking and Challenges. It really did not work because when the sun goes down it is really Geocaching that carries the day.
  8. Problem with that is it significantly reduces our chances of ever getting real caches in those places. We've slowly been making headway with the NPS and other reluctant park systems. The fact that virtuals are off the table helps keep the focus on real caches. And in NJ , there is currently State Park discussion about going solely over to another type of geolocation gizmoid, whose name may not be spoken of on these forums, and getting rid of containers entirely. Which talk is being promoted by that geolocation game and has caught the ear of some park officials, while we argue the merits of real caches over virtual caches.
  9. Who cares, just bring em back and charge 50 bucks for a virtual hiders listing fee for 10 virtual cache hide licenses. That will weed em out pretty fast.
  10. http://coord.info/GCHTK1 Five Star New York, there is really only one place you are likely to get killed looking for the hint.
  11. There is a puzzle cache called Five Star New York , it is about 8 years old , it sits in a city of 8 million people, it is found by about 6 people per year and is almost always solved by people working in concert. The beauty of the cache is its intertwined disciplines and in the collaborative effort put into solving. Although I have never met Pelagori, my collaborator on Five Star, I have a fond memory of our collaboration and have no problem with group effort on any cache. Sometimes I think we tend to be too anal in our application of "rules" and forget the more important social element of our game. The people we cache with and share experiences with re far more important than the tech ism of logging protocol.
  12. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=270386&pid=4649553&st=0entry4649553
  13. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=270386&pid=4649553&st=0entry4649553
  14. Interestingly enough, I went on a vacation to Cape Cod in August. I greatly enjoy Cape Cod and the hiking and biking there, which incorporate caching into the mix. I was left a bit disappointed in the selection I found this past summer. Lousy hides, worse maint and injudicious use of nano containers, the biking and hiking were still inviting. Upon my return I looked anew at some local puzzles hidden by Harry Dolphin/ Andy Bear. They are notoriously difficult, but I decided to give them a try. Solving several of them gave me a new outlet and a new enjoyment of the game. I too engage in somewhat cerebral pursuits at work and previously found the puzzle to be more trouble than pleasure. But after engaging several I find that my former preconceived notions were ill founded. To each his own. Archiving different cache types because of personal notions of their proper inclusion in the "game " will only lead to a repeat of the virtual and web cam and locationless debacles we have been witness to. Cache on.
  15. Notify the cache owner that the log is full and leave it at that, it is not your province to go replacing or maintaining some other persons cache. We do not have a community maintenance standard, it is individual to the owner and the owner takes responsibility when they hide. It is for this reason that some people do not hide, they find but do not hide.
  16. I agree with all of the points made herein, and wondered why anyone would respond to the OP as it was set forth in vagarities of the worst sort.
  17. I'm on the fence about the re-introduction of virtual caches, but the whole "it will overwhelm our Volunteer Reviews" argument seems like a rather lame excuse to me. If you want to keep the numbers down, then let Premium Members submit only one virtual cache per month (or per year). If you want to promote quality virtuals, then automatically archive all virtual caches (with at least 10 finds by Premium Members) that fail to maintain a minimum 10%-favorited threshold (or some other appropriate threshold). It wasn't the volume of virtuals that overwhelmed reviewers, it was animosity that they had to deal with. Everybody seemed to think their virtual was special, so when the reviewer declined it it was like someone telling them their baby was ugly. The constant arguing over the things is what was tiresome for many reviewers. The wow factor has too much subjectivity and puts the reviewers in the uncomfortable position of becoming arbiters of cache quality. As I have said before, reviewers are not the aprbiters of what is good and what is bad, they should never have gotten into that mode, more problems have arisen when reviewers attempt to impose their idea of good or bad, safe or unsafe. More people have animus toward reviewers who do that. Locally it has produced no shortage of ill will.
  18. Yes or no, does this pass your personal Wow! Yes, people all look to be having fun. Are you serious? Oh, wait am I serious, only sometimes. When I go caching, I am decidely not serious, because I cache on bike and by hike with friends and by myself to get out and have some fun. Caching for me is recreation. When I look at the gallery and see people laughing and having a good time with each other and logging in with Favorites then I know that the problem is not with me, it is well with others who can not abide that some people have fun geocaching.
  19. Yes, people all look to be having fun.
  20. I suspect that as a web site development company Groundspeak was looking to develop new product lines. Virtual caches fell into the Geocaching Product Line, so they had to go so that Waymarking as a stand alone web site could be developed. When that one cratered, they sought to re visit and develop a new product for Smart Phone users and that product is Challenges. Challenges seemingly are not generating much interest among cachers and only seem to be popular in Germany. But it struck me as being part of an attempt to develop other business avenues. Groundspeak and this geocaching web site are not geocaching per se, they are business vehicles that cater to a group of consumers who happen to geocache. They choose to not provide virtual listing as they are pursuing alternative business avenues. Geocachers seem to think that the product needs to be offered to them, Groundspeak seem to say that they prefer to offer other product lines that will lead to expansion of their market.
  21. The dregs are what got them shut down. I wonder if the same can not be said for "traditional caching" Will the dregs of "traditional caching" be the death of the game and get it shut down. I suspect probably at some not too distant time. Or, the simple lack of imaginative hides in interesting places will drive afficianados from the game. As it is now, some of my caching compatriots of the past eschew anything that has the aroma of a lpc or guardrail not to mention nanos. I recently came back from vacation and the simply awful caching experience (for the most part)(bison tubes in pine trees, nanos on bike trail guardrails, wet logs, unmaintained caches), boy I would have liked to have seen a bad virtual in the mix
  22. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=06bbe85a-cb59-4224-b7b8-34816434fe4b You almost can't miss seeing them here in NJ, a few years back we did a group hike to actually go and find some, we did. It was fun, although we do miss ole slow Joe.
  23. Old Navy, who does Yeoman's Duty for Caching in North Jersey put out a request for some help. It appears as if he gets a number of request from people to help them introduce others to geocaching. So this time it was the City of Clifton Recreation Department sponsoring a Family Camping Night in Albion Memorial Park. They asked if someone would explain Geocaching to their group on Saturday Mornibng and I told John that I would do that, in view of the fact that my office is here and I have worked in town forever. Today they called and they changed it a little, in that they apparently are having a group that wants to go up to Garret Mountain around 10:30 or so and hike a bit, so I am looking to see if there are any people who can perhaps volunteer to go hike with them and keep them from falling off as they search for geocaches. Saturday 8/18/12. Thanks, E mail me through geocaching and I will send my details.
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