DogFleazJR

MetroGuide is not compatible with units that are auto-route capable, including the 60CSx. I think that is your problem. The link to the Garmin website for MetroGuide is below: http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/MetroGuideNT.jsp You will want either City Select or City Navigator for the 60CSx.

I 'yak. To me, the question is what do you need a map to do for your kayak trip planning? The only place I know to go to look for detailed river running info is clubs, books and other specialty sources that specialize in river running. I don't think you are likely to find this kind of info in the available software. BrianSnat's suggest of the fishing maps is a good one that I haven't personally investigated. When planning a trip, what I want to know is where are there public accessible launch areas, and how far to other launch areas so I can plan a good trip, and know where to leave the vehicles. I also want to know if there are any major obstacles along the way or alternatively, where the interesting parts are going to be like rapids, inlets and so on. I use TopoFusion for trip planning. I will use the draw track tool (the pencil) to plot a track along the center of the river. TF uses the TerraServer topo maps all the way down to 2M and you can also toggle to the NASA arial photos at 1M resolution. Using the 1M arial photos, I can mark riffles and rapids and other items. I can also move the track to direct it on one side of the river or another. The resulting tracks and waypoints can be downloaded to your GPS. You need a pretty big river to make out these kinds of details, on smaller rivers you really have to rely on other's input. There is definitely not enough detail to tell if you should take the right or left shore or where the big snaggers are. For that you have to rely on your own judgement of when to get out and scope from shore. I 'yak with my old GPS V that I can slip under the deck rigging and the screen still faces to me (I also use a 'biner clipped to the rigging in case I go over, which I do from time to time. Any hairy stuff and the GPS gets zipped in the spray skirt pocket). It is nice having waypoints marked of rapids and the take-out, and the track gives me a look ahead of which direction the river is headed. I never thought about it before, but this kind of info would be good to add to TrailRegistry for other 'yakers to use. TF costs $40. The maps can not be downloaded to your GPS, but the tracks and waypoints can be. That is how I do it. Nothing beats the knowledge of a club, good guide books and other research. Happy 'yakin. I'm going out Sunday. It's gonna be cold up here in Jersey, but the leaves will be in full color. Time to pull out the neoprene booties and the splash jak!

Correctly - thats is the reason why i would prefer the electronic compass of the 60csx. But it works only exactly in horizontal position. And a horizontal position is not easy outside. For "sight'n go" an external compass using the electronic map would be a misery. I agree with you on both points - the built in compass is a valuable feature, especially when you are using the GPS in conjunction with a paper map. I also agree that the compass is hard to use in the field because it must be level and that is hard to gauge "by eye." Whether it is a bubble level or the electronic equivalent Garmin could upgrade the unit by providing a better guide to help the user keep the unit level. Perhaps in a future software update ...

That would take up as much or more space as an actual compass, which would probably be more accurate than the electronic one in the CSx model, definitely cheaper. I don't quite understand - I have a bubble level on the stock of my electric drill that is the size of a shirt button. There is one on my camera tripod that is even smaller. Both work great at their intended purpose and probably cost a few cents each. The compass on my 60csx works just fine, better than the receiver actually. The compass bearing is spot on, it's the distance measurement that is way off. If I just used my GPS for geocaching, I would not spend the money for the electronic compass. In five years of occassional geocaching I have never had the need for a compass, electronic or otherwise. I use my GPS for a lot more than geocaching and find the electronic compass quite handy. Irregardless of whether you *need* the compass built into the GPS, if being level is important to performance, then a better visual indication of plumb would be a valuable upgrade (and probably pretty cheap, too).

I agree that the 60CSx should include a spirit or bubble-type level indicator for the compass. One thought I had while reading your post is to try and "steal" a spirit level from an old tool that you could carry in your pocket and then set on the screen when using the compass to get a bearing. Low tech, but cheap and probably effective. Rockler.com has a 5" level with shirt pocket clip and two screw driver tips for $5 if you want to go fancy.

- How do you load CN and Topo at the same time. You can only open one at a time in MapSource?? I want to learn how to do that, too. thanks. In Mapsource, you toggle between map sets under View/Switch to Product. View CN and select the maps you want using the map select tool. Switch to view the Topo maps and select the topo maps you want to load. All the selected maps will appear in the Maps window on the left side of the screen. Once you have selected all the maps you want, download to the GPSr.

I have experienced the opposite problem - I have City Select and US Topo maps loaded onto my 60CSx. The unit wants to default to the CS street maps, even when I am clearly "off road". I have found I have to go in and hide the CS maps in order to see the Topo maps while hiking. Then I have to remember to Show the CS maps again when I want to navigate. This is all a bit tedious. Does anyone know a way to make this more automatic? You can hide and show maps by going to the map page, press MENU, select SET UP MAPS. Scroll sideways across the icons at the top to the "i" symbol press ENTER. You will then see a list of maps loaded on the unit. Select the one you want to show/hide and press ENTER. If you don't see the CN maps in the list then they are not loaded. You have to download all the maps you want from MapSource together at the same time. You can't actually "add" a map, you "replace" maps each time you download.

The lastest software versions are: software 3.00, GPS SW Version 2.80. If your unit is new it likely shipped with these versions so there is no need up update. To check the software versions on the unit, punch as follows (you do not need to be connected to a computer, this is done on the unit standalone): MENU MENU SYSTEM MENU SOFTWARE VERSIONS

Please explain. This makes no sense to me. The satellites are flying all over the place and you are not pointing the antenna at any one satellite. Which way is up or horizontal with respect to all of the visible sattelites? My compass works great compared to my old method of bearing and compass. Sorry to hear yours doesn't. Do you have metal clip. I saw someone suggesting a case with a big metal clip. You have a metal plate in your head? The antenna on the 60CSx is mutidirectional so it gets its best reception pointing to the sky. When you hold it flat to use the compass, only "half" the antenna is seeing the sky so, as Red 90 points out, reception decreases. You can experiment with this first hand for yourself and decide whether "appreciably" or "somewhat" is the appropriate description of the accuracy loss. Hold your 60CSx up over your head with the antenna facing straight up for a few minutes and note the reported accuracy. Then hold it level in front of you as if you were using the compass and note how the accuracy changes. (during this test, if you hold the unit up over your head (really stretch) the metal plate in your skull should have little impact on the unit accuracy ) I have had good luck with the compass on my new 60CSx. As another poster described, I leave it off until I'm within 100 - 200 feet of the cache and then turn it on, get the bearing, choose a landmark to walk to and then watch the distance as reported by the GPS. The unit has to be LEVEL to get good results with the compass. You can watch the compass needle shift as you tilt the unit slightly from side to side. I also agree that even if you don't use/like the compass, hikers will appreciate the barometric altimeter. I have found it to be much more accurate and consistent that using the GPS to determine elevation. If you just use the unit for Geocaching, neither function is all that important and you can save yourself some green by leaving out the S.

The +/- refers to a radius. There is a 95% probability that your true position is somewhere within a 7 foot radius of the physical location you are actually at. Within that circle (technically an elipse, I believe) there is an equal 95% probability that you are standing at the true position or you are 14 feet away from it. The reported accuracy from the unit is more of a relative measure than an absolute.

If you have the 60Cx or 60CSx it is already WAAS compliant, but ships with default to Disabled. To Enable WAAS, do the following from the satellite page: MENU MENU SETUP SYSTEM WAAS / EGNOS (2nd menu option down) ENTER ENABLED QUIT / QUIT I was seeing 51 today on my way to work today with my 60CSx with reported accuracy of +/- 13ft In my experience I either get Ds on most of the satellites, or no Ds at all, and they tend to come and go. This is true for both my GPS V and 60CSx. I don't understand what that is all about, perhaps someone who understands the technical aspects of WAAS can explain it.

I beg to differ, on the belt of a hiker the vibrations (or downwards momentum every other second) will be higher on the belt. No need to beg. It's your GPS. Good luck with it. Something to think about - a hiker travels about 3 miles per hour. Yes, there will be the occassional bump and jolt while tripping over roots, rocks and whatnot. Compare that to a vehicle travelling 60 miles per hour and hitting a seam in the pavement, or a pot hole. The vehicle will "jump" a relatively shorter distance (perhaps a half an inch?) compared to the hiker (an inch or so?) but at a much, much higher velocity = many times more force transferred from the vehicle. Besides the big amplitude events, vehicles transmit constant high frequency, low amplitude vibration. Kind of like constantly flexing a paper clip up and down several times a second. It may take awhile, but even little bits of energy constantly transferred to a single point will eventually add up to a lot more wear and tear than any hiker can muster (unless you drop the dang thing ... or it falls off the dash ) Just somthing to consider with your new mount.

There is a lot more constant vibration transferred from the dash than from your belt. I use the suction cup mount for both my 60Cx and V. Remember to remove the mount from the window as well as the GPS as it is just as good a flag for theives as the GPS. They will assume the GPS is under the seat.

I decided not to "down date" to 2.7 and stuck with the 2.8. Resetting the unit made a significant improvement in performance. When I booted up the first time out of the box, I used the map to indicate my current position (I actually chose NYC which is about 25 miles east of my actual location) thinking this would speed up acquisition and complete the almanac update. When I reset the unit I just left it on auto acquisition. Both times I let 'er idle for the better part of an hour at the end of my driveway with a decent view of the sky. So I am at a bit of a loss to explain the difference - maybe it was just the location of the satellites Friday night vs Sunday. The unit is now performing more like I expected it should. Yesterday under pretty thick cover and along rock ledges it held signal admirably well. We did a series of "repeatability" tests where we set waypoint coordinates, used the 60Cx to take us to that point, then powered down the unit and repeated the process 4 times. Then we'd do it again with a waypoint 90 deg out. Perhaps not statistically meaningful (won't indentify bias, for example, and it would be better to check versus a known point like a USGS marker...) but the results were reassuring. Consistently about +/- 10ft versus the accuracy reported by the unit at the time of +/- 16 ft. I am still surprised by the amount of "noise" on the signal page - satellites are constantly coming in and going out (wish I could post an mpeg of this!). Is this typical with the SIRF chips? And acquisition times are much longer than I expected. Hopefully this will improve with time. So, I am willing to chalk this whole episode up to newbie operator error. Although I've been using a GPS for many years for many different purposes and I'm quite comfortable with their power and limitations, this is only my second new unit. Now to figure out how to get an unlock code from Garmin so I can download routable maps. Perhaps it is time to change my username: Patience, Grasshopper!

It kept 3.0 / 2.8. It seems to be doing much better today. I'm wondering if I got a unit that had been returned to the retailer and someone might have been messing with the settings before I got it? A question: if I do DL 2.7, do you think it will reload 2.8 if I do another reset? If that were the case, I'd DL 2.7 now and get it over with!

I downloaded the v2.7 firmware this morning, but have decided to wait a day before DLing it to the 60Cx. To be honest, I'm a little leary doing this without being able to get the v2.8 back My daughter and I did some playing today in the neighborhood, setting a way point and finding the zero point. Today the two units (V and 60Cx) were in exact agreement under the moderate, mature tree cover here. This is a step up from where we were yesterday before I reset the unit. The V seems to hold the WAAS signals better, but this may be an artifact of the display update rather than what signal the unit is actually reading at any instant. I am going to be up in the Catskills tonight and tomorrow and will have the opportunity to test the unit under more demanding conditions. If it is still lame tomorrow then I'll DL 2.7 and see how it goes. If still lame, I'll seek an exchange. For what it is worth, the compass and altimeter seem to work well. They aren't kidding about holding the unit level, even a small tilt will shift the pointer the opposite direction. A leveling bubble would be a great upgrade. I will keep you posted.

Thanks. I know not to put too much stock in the stated accuracy - either what is printed on the box or what the GPS displays. In this case, my five year old unit seems to perform as well or better than the new one in actually finding a waypoint. If the 60Cx indicated only +/- 30 vs +/- 15 for my old V but tracked dead-on to a point I wouldn't really care. Unfortunately, that is not the case. The "observed" accuracy of my 60Cx is only "as good" or actually "worse" than my old unit in the conditions where it should be much better. I will try "down-dating" my software from 2.8 to 2.7 today and see if that helps. Perhaps the problem is in the new software. If it doesn't help I will exchange this unit. Doesn't sound like others are having these issues. Again, thanks for all the replys and suggestions.

WAAS definitely helps. Out in the street just now I could only get +/- 100 ft at best with the WAAS off and dropped to +/- 19 feet with it enabled. I'm pretty sure I had the lock on roads off before I did the reset, but I'll try it again tomorrow ensuring that it is off. I will probably also "update" with v2.7 'cause I don't really have anything to lose. They must have just recently started shipping with this v2.8 and maybe there is a problem with it (maybe why they haven't updated the webupdater). OK, here's another wierd thing. I have seen others mention that they can get a lock inside their house. If I start the unit up outside and get a lock, I can walk into my house and it will maintain the signal. Signal strength goes down, but the unit seems to be actively tracking something (bars go up and down, satellites go in and out). Right now I have +/- 37 ft sitting in my kitchen with seven active satellites. But if I select a waypoint a few miles away, the bearing arrow does not move. Also, the little red bullet on the satellite page does not move as I move around the house. So even though the GPS says it has signal and a stated accuracy, it aint really tracking anything. Not sure what all this means, but it makes me kind of doubt the accuracy reported by the unit. Anyway, thanks for all the replys.

I just purchased a new 60CSx and I am disappointed in the accuracy of the unit. I’m trying to figure out if I got a dud and should return it or if my expectations are just too high for the technology. I have owned a Garmin GPS V for the past five years and have used it around the world. The unit has worked well for me, but I figured it was time to move up to the latest technology, so I went all out for the 60CSx I did not expect the 60CSx to be more accurate than my old V, but more reliable under difficult GPS conditions – under dense canopy, near large rocks, near cliffs and other obstructions. Said another way, I expected that, in a large field with a full, unobstructed view of the sky, my old V and new 60Cx would both indicate about the same +/- accuracy, but under tree cover, the 60Cx would indicate a tighter +/- accuracy. It has not worked out that way. My old V consistently matches or exceeds the 60CSx in almost every situation. What is strange is that the 60Cx picks up more satellite signals and the signals show stronger than the V (WAAS has been enabled on both, and nearly all the satellites today indicated WAAS capability) but the accuracy of the old V is consistently better. We tried a geocache today using both units. Found it easily with the ol’ V, the 60Cx was flipping all over the place and finally settled on a point 50 feet from the actual cache. The 60Cx accuracy was never better than 65 feet under the big oaks here in North Jersey. This is where I was expecting the 60Cx to really shine. I did a hard reset on the unit and let it boot up fully to ensure it loaded the latest satellite data. This seems to have helped get the accuracy consistently under +/- 30 ft, but the unit is still no better than my old V – in clear-sky view or under the trees. I’ve tried using brand new alkaline batteries and rechargeable NiMH, with no recognizable difference. The unit shipped with software v3.0 and GPS SW v2.8. I’m just curious what other’s experiences are with these units. I’m thinking this one is a dud and I should send it back on Monday. For the money, I was really expecting a much more significant advance in performance vs my five year old unit. Any thoughts?

I have owned a GPS V for about five years and it has served me well. Things I like: Screen faces forward but unit sits flat (it's kind of triangle shaped). I travel on business alot, which is why I got this in the first place, so the orientation is handy when renting cars. I don't have to lug a suction mount in my brief case, the unit sits on the dash ok. I also strap the V under the rigging on my kayak to track distance and pace. The screen faces directly at me and the unit is very stable on the deck. You can change the screen orientation so you can hold the unit straight up and down while hiking. The unit isn't "lightweight" but perfectly acceptable for hiking and geocaching. The B/W screen is easy to read, especially in direct sunlight. I keep the backlight on all the time when in the car, even during the day, to help cut glare on the screen. The unit uses the same HMI that garmin uses on most of their high end handhelds and is fairly intuitive. I read the posts here about the 60C's and it sounds like the same interface, although the 60C has more stuff. Rugged. I proved it is waterproof when I got pinned on a rock in rapids and we all went for a bumpy swim. I thought the ol' V was a goner but she cranked up just fine. My kids have dropped it on the ground a bunch of times, no sweat. I get 12 - 15 hours on a set of 4AA rechargeables as long as I keep the back light off. The cigarette lighter power adapter provides continuous power in the car, no batteries required. What I live with: It autoroute navigates and is handheld so you can use it in the car or for recreation, which is great. And while it performs both functions, it's not really great at either. This design is a compromise. If you understand that, you will probably be quite happy, otherwise you may be quite frustrated. It can take a looonnnngggg time to plot a route. Once it has a route, it tends to think you've gotten off route, especially if there is another road parallel or crossing at the oblique. Then it has to recalculate again. It takes a long time to get a lock, although once on the road it holds the signal fine. Since I use this to get me to clients I have not visited before it can be frustrating at times, although it has always (eventually) gotten me to where I needed to go. The accuracy is not very good when hiking and it tends to lose signal in tree cover. I spend a lot of time holding it over my head when I'm in the woods. When I bought this five years ago, being able to put 19Meg of detailed maps and POIs on a device that could fit in your hand was unbelieveable. Now, with 1G sim cards ... I can fit most of greater Philadelphia on the unit. Like all GPS units, the base map is worthless. It takes a long time to download maps, almost an hour for a full 19Meg. All that said, I have really enjoyed my V. It is a compromise. If road navigation is very important to you, I would spend the money and get a good nav unit and then buy a cheap, used handheld for recreation. If you can accept the limitations and want one unit that can do both, it is a great product. (I love my V, it's literally been around the world with me). I would make sure that the used unit you buy comes with the cigarette adapter, serial cable and City Select software WITH the unlock code, (and the dash mount if you can get it). Without these, the unit is not very useful. The unit shipped with all of these in a bundle (the other attraction of the V when I bought it, now Garmin get's you for the software, the mounts ...). Hope this was helpful. I am going to be upgrading to a 60Cx this fall, but will keep my V for driving and kayaking. happy wandering!

Now for a dumb question - I have WAAS enabled on my old Garmin GPS V, but how do I know if it is actually working? Does it say so somewhere on the reception screen?

I can see it now – the next episode of Law and Order Criminal Intent, RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES! Cache owner arrested for conspiracy to commit murder after placing a micro cache in the alley behind his neighbor’s apartment. After several days of seeing strange men lurking in the alley acting suspicious, the jealous neighbor is convinced his wife is having an affair and shoots her and the next poor cacher who comes along. Pursued by an aggressive State Attorney General with aspirations of being governor, the cache owner is arrested for complicity in the deaths of the wife and the cacher. In a dramatic twist, the whacky-genius detective uses retinal imaging from a grainy security camera three blocks away to tie the murdered geocacher to a plot to assassinate the State Attorney General. Is the cache owner criminally negligent or a hero? Tune in to find out! On a more serious note, the actions of each geocacher reflect on the reputation of all geocachers. Situations that are likely to lead to trespassing or other unlawful or inappropriate actions (whether intentional or not) should be avoided. It only takes a few bad experiences for parks departments, municipalities and others to think about restricting geocaching. If some cacher decides to climb an 8 foot fence or cuts through a business property clearly marked as restricted, that is clearly the seeker’s responsibility. But if the cache you place is likely to result in trespassing, especially across private property that may not be clearly delineated, then I think you have a responsibility to call this out in the cache description. Then it is clear that part of the challenge is to figure out how to get there without trespassing. Just a thought, happy wandering!

On silly putty - I found a cache two weeks ago that had been muggled - apparently by a racoon. This was a BrianSnat cache so it was very well done in an plastic container with the fold-down locking sides. As impressive as it is that the little raider could get the container open ... even more impressive was he tried to make a meal of the silly putty. Got it into a couple of pieces and must have chewed on it a good long time. Still lots of little tooth prints. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I never would have thought that silly putty, of all things, would attract our four legged friends. One critter's synthetic plastic goo is another critter's idea of fast food. BrianSnat may not eat eggplant, but I love it.

Nicely said. Pretty much sums up geocaching for me - choice of challenge. Nothing compels me to do a cache and I can freely choose not to attempt caches that do not provide coords for parking or any any other vital info. As a cache owner, I can choose to make my cache as accessible as possible, or make it near impossible, either for the challenge or to prove to the rest of the world that I'm smarter than you This is similar to another thread suggesting that users should have a minimum number of finds before being able to hide a cache. I can usually tell from other logs whether the cache will be interesting or not. I can check the profile of the owner to judge their experience. I can choose whether to accept the challenge or not.

With regards to software compatibility, the Garmin website does not list City Select as being compatible with any of the GPSMAP 60C series units, only City Navigator. I noticed a customer review on Amazon for the 60Cx where the buyer loaded City Select (which shipped with their old GPS 10) and it worked just fine. They had to request a second unlock key from Garmin(?). When my latest upgrade notice for City Select came from Garmin, it was for City Navigator. Sounds like they may be phasing out City Select. Can anyone tell me if the tracks and waypoints I have saved in City Select files transfer to the TOPO maps or City Navigator? Thanks and happy wandering.