JASTA 11

Where does it go from here? The 'mother cache' has been archived and locked due to this practice, but the event page isn't locked. If Groundspeak acknowledges the issue with the cache, why not the same with the event listing? Inconsistency abounds.

Reminding readers that this was added to the event page AFTER the event page was published. See my post #23 on page one. Generally speaking, would a reviewer use their discretion and disable or retract the event listing once they learned of something like this happening?

Nothin' like getting thrown under the bus!

Dude, all this time I had you pegged as a Utica Club Ale guy.

I wouldn't expect a reviewer to be responsible for policing through cache logs looking for any abuses. Instead, I would hope that a guideline would be published so that the encouragement of this type of behavior would not be included in the listing when it is published by the reviewer. The event this cache is tied to has just that. What players do after that isn't for me to say. Logging multiple 'finds' on any single cache is foolish. Claiming a 'find' on an unpublished cache by posting it on a 'mother-ship' cache, even more ridiculous. Those are my beliefs, like them or not. That being said, after it's published, it's the CO's discretion. In my opinion, Groundspeak should come up with a guideline that addresses this so the reviewer has something to reference when a listing like that is submitted..

I searched for the cache in question from here. Didn't find it. So, thinking I was doing the right thing. I logged a DNF: But, it was soon deleted: I don't get it. Unlike the abundance of multiple find logs listed, my log was legit! Somehow I don't think "finds" ever get deleted.

A quick question: In your experience as a reviewer over the years, as the 'guidelines' have evolved, and types of caches have come and gone, how hard would it be for Groundspeak to implement (or change) guidelines to discourage these kind of activities?

4,434 Finds and not a single Favorite Point? What's with the premium members in Ohio? If you've logged a find on this cache at least ten times you surely like it enough to give it one of those favorite points you've earned! Points Hoarders.

Agreed, if you archive the listing - go recover the cache. If it's still there however, why can't someone search and log a valid find? Is there something unethical in this case? Back in the day, the geocaching.com google maps used to show the location of archived caches.

+1 We've logged finds on archived caches that were still in place. There are some multis around here that were archived by the CO because he was p-o'd with the reviewer. The guy put out some epic hides. Most of them are still out there, and folks actively seek them out. Like this one, archived in 2010: http://coord.info/GCHXBB

Swift? I'd say more like freakin' light speed!

How about a TB that becomes a travelling cache, then a '?' cache: http://coord.info/GC42Z27

How far back would you expect someone to read past logs? Is it necessary? But really, it's not relevant. The CO let a single NM log post go up their backside. The OP asked about the negativity towards NA and NM logs. I offer that part of the reason is the fear of a poor reaction from the CO. Our example shows that. There was no insult or criticism in the log. No reason for the CO to lash out. But yet that's what happens. Some folks believe that their farts smell like roses, and that other peoples just smell like ****.

Apologize? No. I did nothing wrong. I posted a NM, the only NM, on a cache that was in serious need of maintenance. The CO's (over)reaction doesn't make my actions a mistake. I didn't know of, nor expected to be given, an excuse. The CO let me know how far they lived from the cache in their email to us. It's far. If it's too far away to maintain then archive it. Should players not post a NM on caches based on distance from their home? Then they throw in the comment about a perceived political affiliation. What does politics have to do with a cache that needs maintenance? Trying to insult me? Didn't work. Apology from us, nope. It won't stop us from logging them though.

Probably not anger, but I agree that your NM was unneeded as the wet log has been reported on September 27 and the owners wrote that they will change the log as soon as possible on September 28. Your NM log is from September 29 and just repeats what they were already aware of and mentioned that they will take care about just a day before. Being told the same repeatedly without any good reason (for example, when one might think that someone forgot about an issue) is not very motivating. Did you read the logs before writing your log? Cezanne Here's the way it went down: I was out hiking for three days in the back country and found the cache on the 25th. Found a few more on the 26th and 27th. Got home on the 28th. Went to go log them on the 29th. Logged the 'find' and changed the date to the 25th. Logged the NM, but the present date (29th) got recorded. To answer your question, I didn't go back online and log a NM four days after logging the find. When I went online to log I looked to see if there was a red wrench (NM) icon or an attribute. There were none. Regardless, the CO's response was a bit much. To us, it came off as if they had been insulted. This may be a reason why players won't post a NM or NA, they're afraid of pushback.

If it becomes too much of a chore to check on a cache, it's time to consider archiving it. Just recently, we found a cache in dire need of maintenance: Found it A quick find on our way towards Xxxx Xxxx and Xxxxx for the night. Managed to scrawl a 'J11' into the soaked log. Also, we posted a 'Needs Maintenance': Needs Maintenance The log is just about mush. There's no seal on the container to keep the water out. The CO expressed their appreciation in an email to us: "We live in the Democratic Socialistic State of Massachusetts, and if you had read the log for Xxxxx's Xxxxx you would have noticed a note by the CO that we would be there to change the log and cache as soon as we could. "VOTE REPUBLICAN"" The reference to Massachusetts comes from our profile page, but I really don't get the rest. The cache is in a neighboring state, about a three and a half hour drive from the state border. Why the anger? Hung-over on a Monday morning perhaps?

HAH! You beat me to it!

Multiple stamps with LAME on them shouldn't cost you too much.

Absolutely. I'm surprised that we haven't maxed ours out yet.

Without a doubt: Blackwater River

The last time we saw this topic posted we learned that the only requirement to be a letterbox hybrid was the stamp. Letterboxing-style clues aren't a requirement. We have one letterbox hybrid, it's cross-listed on AtlasQuest. It uses GPS coordinates to take you to a place where you start to follow clues. Not being very artistic, we had a hand carved custom stamp made for us. It's attached to the container by a lanyard. Personally, I like the added challenge of the letterboxing clues. We keep a logbook stamped with our LB finds. Store-bought stamps are a downer.

On a mountain top cache with a several hour hike involved: HikingThrowDowner Found it! Hi All; Now this Geocache was right up there with what I like to do. Almost extreme geocaching. We (my hiking partner) looked for about 20 minutes for this one, but I knew before hand that it might be misplaced. I brought a new container and log sheet and placed it at the same coordinates. I met [another cacher] at GZ and [they] signed the log sheet as well. Cache info was sent to the cache owner and all should be good to go for the next hiker in this really neat area. This one gets a favorite point from me. Thanks Again for the adventure. [HikingThrowDowner]

We'd agree with you there. The person who introduced us to geocaching quit the game altogether because of how things were changing. Also because a local geo-cop was giving him a hard time. He has recently returned to caching (after about four years) with his kid, but he'll never place another cache. Another local cacher recently committed 'near-geocide'. Archived almost all of their caches due to a reviewer retracting a listing without any warning. From what I understand, the cache was along the border with a nearby state. Players were crossing private property to get the cache, so the CO moved it (less than .10 mile) across the border to the other state in order to keep folks from going across the private property. The reviewer from the state the cache was in originally retracted the listing. No temporary disable, no email contact, nothing according to the CO. They'll keep finding, but not hiding.

If you didn't open the container, how do you know that what you found was indeed the cache? (The Schrödinger's Cat episode of 'The Big Bang Theory' comes to mind.)

More 'flag pole finders'... JUSTAGIT! Found It! I explored all around [cache name] (named Flagpole Rock to me), and completely covered the top as well, but found no container, small or micro....... So,... Using Blue permanent marker, I signed the flagpole with [other cacher] and my tag. other cacher Found it! Claiming this as a find as well. With JUSTAGIT!. Awesome spot and views. It has turned into one of my fave places We DNF'd a cache in a local state park the other day. Maybe we should've brought a marker along and signed the parking lot and claimed a find?