brian b

It may well be frozen enough now. The lakes by me are all frozen across and people are out ice fishing on them. I, too, have been waiting for this deep freeze for an attempt. Anyone interested in grabbing it next weekend?

My cousin and I just completed an 8 mile loop, grabbing Iko-Iko and Water Tank. After the initial climb, the hike is relatively flat -- a nice plus when dealing with winter weather. Both are snow friendly, and both offer a very nice hike. Not many views, though, but that is the nature of a flat hike. David offers part of the hike as one of his maps. . . .

Congratulations are in order, for Matt has found 100 caches. Well done.

Seeing as I have been caching now for 764 days (18,336 hours or from 12/21/02 thru present day 1/14/05), the longest I have gone without finding a cache has been one 14 day period; I have two or three 10 day periods in there. I didn't realize that it was that much of an obsession . . . .

Is that a fairly recent article? I live just on the other side of the river, and our local paper has had nothing about this.

brian b -- and like BrianSnat -- I didn't know that I was locking myself in when I logged in the first time. Cornwall, NY -- a nice drive east will get me to jonboy's treks, a nice drive south will get me to Harriman, nearly any drive West pretty much turns up empty. I will get up at ungodly hours on the weekends to get my walks in, just so I can be home to watch the kids so my wife can have a life. We are lucky to live in this region; many hiking trails, many great cache hiders, a nice variety of terrains.

My Freud Indicator states that we have gone slightly south of snakes. . .

I solve this problem by printing out several (or all) of the caches in the given area. If the hike is not long enough to my satisfaction, then I grab more. However, most of the time (and to me, this is part of the fun, the obsession), I spend hours planning each weekend's hike. I know almost to the .10 of a mile how far to each cache. I have spent almost as much on maps (and updates on the maps) as I have on my gps!

You can grab one of the Shelter Series (Tom Jones) if you do this loop. Might be one of my hardest hides so far.

How does one find out such facts?

Thats had my stymied for almost 3 years. I gave it a shot today and DNF'd it. Found this couple weekends ago. Team DEMP was correct; Stag Hill Road, then follow the road around the reservoir, ford the stream, you'll find it easily. We approached from the Mansion side first, and realized that even though we were .25 away, the risk simply wasn't worth it.

Yes, you are right (however, many of the beer swillers are probably NOT teens, although I have no proof of that, and even so, better for them to be swilling in the woods and not driving . . . .), these irresponsible people are responsible for more damage than the average cacher, and yes, BrianSnat is also correct in the placement of camping areas to minimize the impact elsewhere. That being said, I still question whether I want to be part of the general over-population of caches in what I consider an already over-populated area. I just got out of Harriman a few hours ago; trecked up to jonboy's Lost in the Ozone -- a fine cache, a fine hike. I could see the West Mountain shelter from the view. My gps said that my cache was .2 mile away. Yet, the hike to get there is going to be more than .2 mile -- even a straight line bushwacked (not recommended). As much as this seems to contradict my original statement, the point is that two fine (assuming the shelter cache and jonboy's cache can be called fine) cache exist, but they are relatively close (emphasis on the word relative). The bottom line is -- How long does a cache maintain its usefulness?

This is something that I, too, have been struggling with. While I don't condone calling any cache placement "lame" or "pointless" (obviously the placer had some reason for deciding to use that location -- whether it be the hike was over, the location holds meaning, or it is just where the cache landed when it was dropped), I do find that certain cachers think through their placement and have a definitive reason for its placement -- usually something any seeker will notice upon arrival at that point: sometimes it is just a serene enviornment, sometimes it is a fine view, sometimes, an awsome waterfall. Who knows. Like I said, I have questioned this as well, especially around Harriman. I wonder about the concept of cache=trash. Sometimes, I feel like I have simply found a peice of trash in the woods, with some coords attatched to it. Othertimes, I feel like I've found something well worth an effort. I have also wondered just how long one ought to leave a cache -- not necessarily to open the way for other nearby caches, but also to reduce the enviornmental impact that a cache naturally produces in an area. That being said, I have contemplated removing my Shelters Series, since these areas are already abused by users.

I bet Quoddy never expected such a response as has been posted thus far.

I've never beem much for group hiking, but having jonboy lead an expedition might be well worth it. My longest hike to date is about 9 miles, so I hope you'll have some patience. Keep me informed. . . .

I feel sort of lonely, too, seeing that I haven't hit any of these. Granted, they are sort of far from my home base, but that, I suppose, is really no excuse. I am still trying to finish of Harriman. Several of mine have gone nearly a year with no finds.