Jomarac5

quote: georgeandmary wrote:What you should do is leave a note in the cache that explains Jomarac's solution. Georgy, Georgy, Georgy, If you had half the brain that you were born with you'd realize that the 2oldfarts' cache was plundered -- not degraded by poor trading practices, hence my comments about a solution don't work in this case -- you see, the person(s) who did this are no longer there and are most likely never to return. But keep trying Georgy -- about one in 100 of your posts actually have some merit. With the number of times that you post your drivel, something is bound to make some sense sometime. Sorry, but this is not one of those times. Perhaps we can now get this thread back on topic... *****

logscaler asked the following questions: 1) What is your answer to the problem? It's really a common sense issue -- obviously, leaving cigarettes or bottle caps or a used spoon is not appropriate and those that leave such items need to realize that this is doing nothing to enhance the sport. If people were to trade with a concience this problem would probably go away. Yes, there is bound to be a certain amount of degradation of all caches but the idea here is to slow it down so that the fifth person to a cache doesn't end up with a box of worthless broken junk. 2) Would you have a minimum value of trade items? If you're referring to monetary value -- absolutely not. Some of the coolest things that we've found in caches have not been of great value -- generally these are items that people have made. One example is a local cacher that puts a small bit of hand-made chain mail as a signature item -- certainly not worth much monetarily but it's very interesting. My kids had never seen chain mail before and were quite interested in it. I think for the most part though, if you come to a cache that already has a couple of mctoys in it, then it's probably a good idea to save that mctoy in your pocket for another cache that doesn't have one. Incidentally, we have been known to take the odd mctoy but generally my kids don't want them most of the time. 3) Would you have all cacher's have to list what they took and left on the web page? I think this would be a good idea. No, I don't think it should be a rule -- it's just a polite courtesy to the cache log. 4) Would you have a shopping list at KMart-Target-Dollar store-wherever of authorized cache items? Hardly. This is covered pretty much in the answer to question 2. 5) Make all caches theme type? Sorry, but I don't see where this would help other than to specify that it is a none mctoy cache. Now tell me what your looking for in the caches. What do you want to find? What are you looking for from this game? Adventure or trinkets? As I mentioned in previous posts in this thread -- trading really is for kids -- since you asked, I'd like to see cache items that appeal to children. For me personally, it is the quest of finding the cache and going to a new location that is important. But for kids, a big part of it is the treasure chest at the end of the journey. With regard to policing trades, it would be impossible. But we can all collectively encourage cachers to consider their trade items more carefully. *****

quote: WhiteHowler wrote:I always trade when I find a cache, but I'm comfortable with the fact that it might be full of items that a given person may not particularly want. Rather than worrying about the monetary value of the item, enjoy the sheer randomness of what you find. In my (few) cache finds so far, I've yet to find SOMETHING that was useful or interesting. Scotch tape, a Taz keychain, some nail polish for my fiancee... I try to leave interesting and useful things behind as well, without worrying about how much they cost, or whether I'm "trading down" or not. If everyone did the same, I don't think we'd have threads like this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. *****

quote: Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy wrote:Possibly because none exists. See above (...sigh). *****

quote: georgeandmary wrote:The most valuable thing to take away from this thread is that caches get traded down so don't let that ruin the experience. What more do you want. And because you can't expand your thinking enough to realize that somewhere, somehow, there is a solution to this problem, you give the impression that no one should discuss it in a civilized and intellectual manner? That no one else can come up with a possible solution? And if they do begin having a sensible discussion, you for some unknown reason, feel compelled to put in as much BS as possible to distract them from attempting to do this? How is that helping to advance the sport? If all you want to do is be non-productive and interfere with others who want to better the sport then I suggest that you start another thread for the purpose of arguing with everyone and post your replies there. quote: TMAN264 wrote:You have posted more off topic spam that anyone (besides me) trying to keep the posts "on topic". You are as guilty as anyone. See above. *****

quote: Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy wrote:It's not as if talking about the problem is going to solve it anyway, so why bother talking about it? Now that really makes sense. If ever there was opportunity to slam someone, this is sure it. But... it would serve no meaningful purpose at this moment and it is not what this thread is about. This thread is a discussion about how cache contents are degraded over time. We've determined that this is a problem and now it's time to see if we can determine a possible solution to the problem. If you aren't discussing this, you're posting to the wrong thread. *****

And once again the thread goes off topic leaving those who wish to have an intelligent discussion frustrated once more... What is it with you people? Can you not refrain from making ridiculous comments that have nothing to do with the topic being discussed? So now this topic goes by the wayside and once again it will be brought up in the near future and the same ridiculous people will no doubt point out that this topic has been discussed already. If you don't have something of value to offer the discussion, then why say anything at all? Give your egos a rest and let someone who has something valid to offer have a chance to voice their concerns. *****

Another thread heading off topic -- this discussion is NOT about the hunt vs the treasure -- it's about crappy cache contents. ----- I think the biggest point that's being missed here is that the trinkets and treasures are mostly for the kids (some are bigger/older than others and that's cool too). Don't we owe it to kids to leave something better than a cigarette or a fast-food toy? Perhaps many of you who don't get this bit about trading should take some kids with you sometime -- you'll be amazed at the excitement when a little kid finds some stickers, or a hot wheels car, a caribiner, or a stuffed toy animal. This is what it's about for a lot of people. It's fun. And at the end of the journey to the cache when you get see that big smile on a kids face it makes you want to thank the person that was thoughtful enough to consider what they left -- and for giving the kids something to smile about. And that smile is the additional bonus for me And it's not about the monetary value -- some of the most treasured stuff that we've found has not been expensive but is unique in some way (or popular, like a bey blade). A geocaching button made by Pharmadude, a rock with a hand painted face, a toy VW Beetle are some of the most treasured items. We have left some compasses, CD's and other 'premium' items in our caches but have also written in the description that we don't expect the person who takes it to trade up or even for these items -- just leave something decent in trade. A dollar store item is fine but if someone left a fast food toy we might be a bit disappointed. We just get a kick out of knowing that the kid (of whatever age) that took that memento will think of caching whenever they use it or look at it -- and that's cool to us. If you trade -- make sure it's something that you'd like to find in the next cache that you go to and everything should work out fine. If you want to just leave a TNLN that's fine too. And if have it in your means to take nothing and leave something, that's very cool. Just please, don't leave a bottle cap... *****

quote: georgeandmary wrote:Here is what I would consider the start of a great adventure and you let the contents of the cache ruin it for you. I don't even remeber what is the boxes I find, I remember what it took to get there. A bit off topic georgeandmary. This is not a thread about which is better -- the hunt or the treasure. Your comments have nothing to do with degraded caches. Posts that are not on topic are the reason for other people's frustration when they are trying to discuss a particular topic. Your opinions are most welcomed but try to keep them about the topic that is being discussed. ***** [This message was edited by Jomarac5 on May 20, 2003 at 12:59 AM.]

The map is added to your page shortly after the cache is approved. Sometimes it takes a day or two but it will be added. -----

We've only placed 3 caches so far but we've tried to add something special to each to make them more interesting. We left a CD of a local musician for the first finder in this one: Watershed Whereabouts Part I Although not necessarily for the first finder, we left a compass in this cache: Looking Down Lindeman Not intended to be a cache bonus, in our third cache, we included a loaner compass at the second waypoint of a multi so that people without a compass could complete the cache (heavy tree cover makes it very difficult to get a signal so a compass is necessary): WWII - Irene Pearce Trail We've got a few more compasses and CD's sitting here waiting to be put into upcoming caches as first finder bonuses. Although I don't feel it's necessary to put a special cache bonus in every cache, it does make it a bit more interesting for the FTF. With regard to a budget, the CD's run in the $18 (Cdn) range and we shopped around and found a good deal on ten Suunto compasses for $10 (Cdn) each. -----

quote: The Leprechauns wrote:I deal with poor cache contents by leaving something nice, and taking nothing. If you want better cache contents, you can't expect everyone else to take care of the problem for you. The problem here is that it is not MY responsibility (or YOURS) to replenish a cache -- the 'intended action' of every cacher is to trade fairly. Trading a fast-food toy for something that is obviously worth much more than a buck is not fair no matter how you look at it. It must be acknowledged however, that there is no obligation by anyone to trade fairly -- it is just something that is done out of a respect for the activity. Obviously, if everyone traded fairly there would be no disappointments at caches. This is what needs to be conveyed to the people that constantly leave trash in a cache. Regarding trading with lot's of kids -- my 3 kids take turns doing the trading. We trade only one item per cache (there are a few exceptions but we always bring along an extra 1 or 2 items for these instances). The kids decide amongst themselves who will get to do the trading. Often, the kid whose turn it is doesn't find anything in the cache that interests them and they will step aside and give one of the others the opportunity to trade at that cache if they want. Since we usually do a few caches at a time, each of them generally come home at the end of the day with some sort of treasure. If the kids are bringing a friend along, they either let their friend do the trading or they'll take more than one item to trade. If there is a large group of kids trading at a cache I don't have a problem with them trading for six or seven (or more) items as long as: 1.) the cache has enough items in it to trade. 2.) each trade is fair. 3.) they log what they took and what they left. Personally, I have only traded once or twice and really couldn't care less if there was nothing more than a log book but let's face it, for the most part, trading is for kids -- it adds to the excitement and fun for them. The rule in our group is that you can only trade something that you'd like to find in a cache -- anything less just won't do. ----- edited sp error. [This message was edited by Jomarac5 on May 18, 2003 at 11:06 PM.]

quote: Harrald wrote:Jomarac5, What you failed to notice in your effort to post an inflammatory response is that the original poster did not post a question. Really? Then what was: "I thought the idea was to trade EVENLY!?" Your response appears to be nothing more than a lame effort to humiliate the poster. Just because they opt to TNLN does not mean that they are "perpetuating the perceived problem". Like the degraded caches that are spoken of here, you have given nothing of value to this discussion. Don't bother replying to this post, I won't respond further -- instead try offering something meaningful to the question that was originally presented. -----

Has anyone else noticed that smart a$$ answers are INCREASING lately? quote: Harrald wrote:So instead of adding to the cache in an effort to improve it you TNLN? Why is it that responses from certain individuals continously evade the posted question and instead turn on the poster in an effort to humiliate or scold? If these people have nothing of importance to say, why don't they keep their yaps shut? Back to the question at hand: Team MJDJ, it seems that a lot of the popular, often visited caches tend to degrade quickly. From what I've read in the forums and in discussions with other cachers, this seems to be consistent with most areas, not just our own back yard. Often, when we find a cache that is lacking in good trade items we'll leave something behind but not take anything. Other times, especially if the cache is in really bad shape, we'll TNLN because the best thing to do is to dump all the contents and start fresh. If the cache is full of nothing but McToys and other junk, we'll send an e-mail to the cache owner to let them know that the cache could use a 'boost'. Usually, the cache owner is happy to be informed of this and will promptly remedy the situation. From what I've seen, most cachers do trade fairly but there are a few who don't. The only thing to do is to encourage these others to trade more appropriately. -----

The Suunto A-10 is a great compass for the price (about $10 Cdn). It's very reliable liquid filled compass. I used one for a long time and I've even been putting them in caches as a bonus item. For a simple compass, you can't go wrong. -----

This is really getting off topic -- time to get it back where it belongs... So how about it Cap'n Morty? Are you going to return the cache loot or what? -----

quote:Originally posted by Pantalaimon:Ironically, if Team Saxaphone can't see THAT point, they/he/she must be an idiot. My mistake. I see what you mean -- thanks for the clarification. -----

quote: Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:Pan, if you can't see that simple point then you're an idiot. Careful here -- there's a new rule in town that you've either forgotten about or are choosing to ignore. As stated in the 4th and 5th paragraphs, this type of personal attack will no longer be tolerated. I would suspect that you'll be getting a warning soon. Read the rule here. -----

I think Pan's argument stands up pretty well. C'mon people, look at it from the point of what he's saying (you need to read closer) -- he's not agreeing with Mad Morty'a actions -- only that he sees the humour in his dubious antics. Pan is right that this is not technically stealing (although I would have to insist that a much better argument could be presented than has been done so in this forum to support the theft theory). After reading this thread I'd be quite surprised if Mad Morty isn't laughing his skull and crossbones off. I certainly see the humour in the reactions here. Avast Morty, it's been good fun but the jig is up, and most of us have had a good laugh. Time to return the missing booty (as you've given in your word) or these scurvy dogs will hunt you down on the high seas and make you walk the plank -----

quote: Originally posted by Moun10bike:Admins are now being asked to approve the coordinates for all of the stages in a multicache. More rules. Where does this all end? Pretty soon we're going to need approval to go looking for caches. Uh oh, now I've done it -- I've spoken out against TPTB -- I'll never get another cache approved now. -----

We just placed a cache under an evergreen treed canopy where it is next to impossible to get a signal. We really wanted to show off this park and the solution was to prepare the final leg of the cache to be done with a compass. So far, only three people have logged it but all expressed that they liked it. Here's the cache description page: WWII - Irene Pearce Trail -----

What's ironic is that you think it's funny.

This is the reason that your posts aren't taken seriously.

quote: Mopar wrote:I don't see much of a problem with the cache itself, there are no rules against placing lame caches. I *DO* have a problem with people placing caches they can or won't maintain. I think if you look at the hiders finds, there is a pretty good case for considering this cache a vacation cache. I think most of us that travel to a different area enough to properly maintain a cache there, also have a fair amount of finds in that area. Perhaps you should go back and read the posts more carefully. The cache placer said that there is no problem maintaining the cache. And then another cacher from the area confirms that he does travel in the area a lot. Saying that there is a problem because the cache placer doesn't have many finds in the area is a bit far-sighted and unreasonable. ----- [This message was edited by Jomarac5 on May 02, 2003 at 08:52 AM.]

I don't see where the problem with this cache is. It doesn't appear to be breaking any rules. Seems a bit unreasonable to me that it was archived.