CacheInColorado

Here was the problem with the Denver cache, incorrect coordinates again... quote:Originally posted by DiffDude on the Magellan Contest page. Now I understand the problem and how the first people found it. It's not that the coordinates are wrong, they were just posted in the wrong format. If the cache really had N 39 28' 29" and W 104 55' 22" (and no decimals on the seconds), as people have said, then converting them to the posted coordinates gives the correct values of N 39 28.483' W 104 22.366 (actually the lon should have been rounded up to 22.367). The problem is they are displaying more significant digits than they had. The posting of the coordinates in 1000ths minute implys an accuracy of about 6 ft (6071 ft per minute of latitude). But, the original coordinates were to the nearest second of lat/lon, which is only accurate to about 100ft N/S and 60ft E/W. They should have posted in the original Deg Min Sec, or only displayed the decimal minutes to 100th of a minute (N 39 28.48 W 104 55.37). This would have told me of the uncertanty of the position, and might have looked farther away. Of course, what they should have done is record the actual lat/lon to the 10ths of second, or 1000ths of minute, to give the most accurate coordinates. Now, the people that found the cache stated they used a GPS displaying 100ths of minute. That means it was only accurate to about 60ft N/S, and 40ft E/W. So, when they were within 60ft of the cache location, the GPS would show them dead on. This probably made them search a wider radius than people with GPS showing 1000ths minute, and hence why they found the cache first. It's funny how having a less precise GPS actually allowed them to find the cache. I don't think this was Magellan's intentions. So, the posted coordinates are WRONG. The cache is not there. If you take the actual coordinates in 1000ths of minute from someone who found it (N 39 28.475 W 104 55.370), and convert that back to seconds, you get N 39 28 28.5 and W 104 55 22.2, which is about 50ft south and 20 ft west of the posted coordinates. The 0.5" and 0.2" are the error. Diffdude [This message was edited by CacheInColorado on August 03, 2003 at 01:26 PM.]

Saw this on the Magellan forums, thought I would copy it here before they took it off. quote:Originally posted by GPShacker on Magellan Forums: Confessions of a GPS hacker. Okay, this is getting weird so I will offer up some information. Not that I am much better than the supposed cache finders, but this might help explain some things in Denver and Houston. I was trying to get ready for the Denver hunt on Tuesday night, so I was saving the links to the web page of the cache, and decided to try to save the link to the map as well so I could have it to refresh fast. I looked at other caches and saw that the "detailed map" page had a format like this (click on detailed map, then right click properties): https://www.magellangps.com/en/gpsAdventures/geocaching/getImage.asp?cacheid=24&type=F (this is for the cache near Orlando). I changed this to the Denver cache id of 28, and what popped into my browser? The detail map of the Denver cache with the coordinates (the same one that is posted now). This was Tuesday night, after the first clue I think. This was totally unexpected, as I thought they would lock out the page until the coordinates were posted. I checked the other caches, and sure enough, got the detailed map with coordinates for the Pittsburg and Houston caches. Was this cheating? Maybe. Or just lucky. What would you do? I decided to only use the information myself, and not to give it to anyone else. So, with this tidbit, a friend and I was at Daniels park on Tuesday night, 10pm to 10:30pm with flashlights looking for the cache. I have geocached before, so I knew to look under the bushes and in the grass and to take into account GPS errors. The spot was right next to the parking area, so I thought it would be easy to find. I did not find anything. Went back Wednesday morning by myself, search for over about two hours up to about 100ft from the cache, and did not find it. Sometime on Wednesday, Magellan fixed the "back door" to the map, and it was no longer available the way I tried. I think this might be why there was so much delay between the hints, and no 4th hint. Then I thought maybe they hadn't placed the cache yet, and went back Thursday evening, after the Houston cache was found with very flimsy hints, and me and another friend search for over an hour, again nothing. At this point, I was convinced the coordinates were wrong like Pittsburgh, so waited for the posting of the real coordinates. On Saturday they were posted, and matched the ones I had on Tuesday (so did the Pittsburgh and Houston ones). This confused me greatly, and didn't go out to look, waiting for the reports. When they came back that the cache wasn't there, it didn't surprise me. I even went back Saturday afternoon and looked in completely different places, thinking they posted the coordinates wrong. What would I have done if I found the cache? Take the grand prize coupon, and put back the cache where it was. This all might sound like sour grapes, but I think it could explain the happenings in Denver and Houston. I can't be the only one who tried this "hack". GPShacker.