Logscaler and Red

Thats their problem. If "they" have to go through life "sucking up" to get anywhere "they" should not assume the rest of us have to do so as well. I have nothing but respect for anyone willing to give all the time and effort that is involved in doing the moderator - reviewer jobs on this site. Any problem I have ever had has been worked out to my satisfaction on this site. I tip my hat to you. Good job and thank you. Logscaler and Red.

Just to get things straight. Did I miss something somewhere that says that "pghlooking" sent an e-mail complaint to TPTB requesting something be done about the wording on this cache? Who did bring the cache in question before the review board? As for his log to the cache page, the cache owner could have sent him an e-mail asking him to change it to something less then what he did. Or delete it if it ruffled her feathers that bad. It sounds like neither option was explored from what I read, unless I missed something. As for all the "agenda" caches out there. I lean towards the reviewers side of things. Have you ever wondered just how many caches they have to look at? I would bet they mostly skim through the cache pages making sure that the minimum requirements are met first then try and pick out the other stuff. But when a cache is BROUGHT to their attention, they have to deal with it within the guidelines they are given. I had an old Forester tell me one time "not to try and pick all the flyspeck out of the pepper as you can't." I would like to start a list of people who have never missed anything in there life because they had other stuff to do. I bet there are a lot of coaches out there. Any of you ever screwed up and made a wrong call? Umpires - Referees at the kiddies ball games, you ever miss a call? Your a lier if you say no. The point I am trying to make is get off the reviewers case. They do this on a volunteer basis as far as I know. What are you going to do when they all chuck it and say it is not worth it? Which at this rate, I would not blame a single one of them. They have rules to play by as do you. Maybe not in this game but in life. As for the cache in question, how hard is it to change things to get it approved yet maintain the integrity and intent of the cache? It just takes a little wordsmithing to get any cache approved yet stay in the guidelines. My nickels worth. If you want change, meet me on the trails. Logscaler.

Not sure just what the answer your looking for is. A lot has been said about this same topic over the years. And a lot will be said in the forthcoming years. Will it make a difference? Not one bit. Period. End of story. We don't consider ourselves a "team". We are a couple. The only time I can see where team work will make a difference is if there is a "reward" in the end. Like our CCIO cache had a time limit and a "score" was kept. The DeLorme challenges have a "reward" at the end for completing all the grids. A team effort would complete them a lot faster and cheaper. The cache owner can reject logs from any individual member of the team trying to log the find yet allow the team to log the find. In our CCIO cache, the entire team would have to be present to sign the final page at the same time, not just one member. In the Baseball analogy I see it like this. The Team has 20 hits. Player # 1 has 4 hits, player # 2 has 1 hits, player # 3 has 6 hits, player # 4 has 4 hits, player # 5 has 1 hits, player # 6 has 4 hits. Sure, the entire team has 20 hits but each member can't say I have 20 hits. The same in geocaching. Your Team has 5000 finds but YOU signed your handle to 1,800. Make sense in a round about way? I would have a problem with team members signing other team members individual handle to the log so they can claim an individual "found it" log. Up to that point, We don't believe there is anything to get up in a huff over. All you have to tell yourself is that "Team XYZ" completed it and "I" did it by myself. Keep your level of integrity, whatever that is, and the rest will have to take care of itself. Logscaler and Red

Yes I can, will and do. But it is not worth arguing about in this forum.

And you are encouraging people to play in electrical boxes why? So what happens when some kids looks for your next caches and thinks it is the same hide "technique" and dies from an electrical shock? Will you still think your container is so cool? Kinda growly ain't you? People fall off cliffs all the time. Are you going to stop hides on steep slopes as well? People break their ankle stepping off curbs wrong. Are you going to stop walking to caches as well? People get killed in car wrecks everyday. Stop driving to caches as well? People get stung and die. Are you going to stop going outside to caches as well? People die from eating foods they are allergic to. Are you gong to stop that as well? I know several of these are over the top but where do you wanna stop at? Kids should be supervised by an adult when out cache hunting. It only takes a little common sense to know when to stop. The others get out of the gene pool. Logscaler.

Aftr reading SOME of this (again) my opinion is:

If you put the caches onto MS Streets & Trips the counties will show up.

I guess I will have to try and find it somewhere then. Google should work.

According to the "Oregon Field Guide" show I was watching last night, they went to Green Mountain near Christmas Valley, all together that there where between 800 and 900 fire lookouts in Oregon. I wonder where they got that number from? Whatever source they used would make a good one for locating all them.

Easy enough to tell the people who don't have to work out in the stuff. Pulled a stupid move and went after the Crack of the Gods cache last week. Everything was fine to the point of the cache. Seems like the cache is now under a avalanche debris field and who knows how much snow. We will go back in the Summer.

The "intent" is to get everyone shifted over to the new grid so that I don't have to maintain two sets of data, one of which is obsolete, for a single cache. I am strongly encouraging people who have not notified me of their involvement in the Challenge to begin using the new grid. That's just one of the risks of being a "below radar" type! Nope! One cache listing, one find in my rule book! Seems to me your being mighty nice to a lot of people. You could have just archived the old one and started anew. That would have solved a lot of problems and headaches on your end. I hope people realize just how much time and effort goes into "monitoring" their progress. I know from personal experience that this is not easy and no lack of confrontations from people who want "special treatment" because they feel it is unfair due to their having "restrictions". Sorry, got carried away dredging up the past. Thanks for trying to keep a level playing field for everyone. Logscaler

We will replace caches that are damaged or caches that we have found before that we know is missing, if it deserves to be replaced. (High handed I know but thats just me.) We will not replace caches we can not find. It is not our place to second guess a cache owners hiding place or style. Also, who finds them all on the first try? We will try and rebuild a cache to a minimum standard level of caches We like to find - swag, scribble sticks, logbooks, baggies - if We have found the cache in a state of disrepair. Some caches just need to die. To be blunt, no heroic measures need to be use on "why here?" caches. There is a time when a cache just needs to be archived and replaced with a new cache owner but the location has to deserve a cache in the first place, not just because there is/was a cache at that location. Logscaler.

Yeah, but I have an almost unfair advantage. I live in Seattle. =) I have five kinds of moss growing in different areas around the yard. I like to bury them in high acid soil for a few weeks, then get them wet with rainwater, add some moss pieces, and leave them alone. However, there are some tips to growing moss. You can read a million things that will say use this or that. The following will all work: yogurt, buttermilk, beer. mix with: moss also add some: Potters clay The potters clay is a step that would really help many people that seem to not have success. its purpose? it just makes stuff stick better. =) Do NOT use tap water. The chlorine will kill your efforts. Use Rainwater, even better. use rainwater with pine needles soaking in it. (moss loves high acid, infertile soil/items) Also lime will kill your moss as well. hope that helps, if you need more info/help, shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can come up with. You could make up some film cans full of "starter moss", kinda like starter bread for making sourdough. Our Son works for a rock place and he says they make this stuff by the bucket full for placing on rock walls in landscaping projects. Logscaler.

Normally, I would agree on the FTF going to the next person but I will draw a fine line on this one. Everything is in place to be published for all to see but just a slight problem with the location. One the cache owner is not willing to deal with till sometime next year. I had the opportunity to solve a problem as well as get this cache found. I have also been FTF and LTF on the same cache. The cache was in the wrong location in a closed area so I went and removed the cache for the owner and the Feds. Logscaler.

Sorry, doubled up on that one.

All I had was the coordinates to work with. No hints. No size. No color. No shape. Less information then a normal cache hunt. Made the challenge a tad bit more then normal but more interesting as well. Once on scene, I only had about 15 minutes before dark and the snow was just starting to fall. Then I had to locate another cache spot within 0.10 miles and within 50 feet of the road - width of the ROW for the road. Logscaler.

I committed the ultimate geocaching sin Tuesday. I moved a cache. Not far, just a 100 feet or so. Still should be easy to find as it is under a rock on a bald knob near a lookout at 7754 feet elevation and now under a foot or better of snow. Upset yet? I did it at the request of the cache owner. Seems as it could not get approved where it was sitting. Too near or in a wilderness area. I signed the log BEFORE the cache was approved. Yes, I claimed the FTF. After driving 60 miles and burning 4 hours of my time I feel no guilt. Logscaler.

I got snowed on at 7,000 feet today while after a cache on Odell Butte. Cold wind as well. It might be close to the end of getting the good lookouts on the east side real soon so get them while you can. Logscaler.

Muggle proof is impossible in my opinion. Like the old saying, "Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once and a while". Unless you find a spot on private property where the owner knows about the cache and allows you to place it like you want, then you have to deal with people out hunting, wandering around, looking for a quiet, people looking for a "secluded" spot, etc. I have a cache out along the line of what your looking for. GCNJBE - Wheres Red II. It has been out about 2.5 years and no muggles yet. Send me a PM and I will fill you in on details.

Not in the least. I am just keeping track to see what my average is. The more east side lookouts you have will always raise your average. Logscaler.

I send an e-mail whenever I have any updates as well as sending a link to any new pages. I also update my Bookmark list as soon as possible. There are several easy ones for you in the Vinegar Hill, Desolation Butte, Indian Rock area. I was hoping to get to section 8 before the snow flew this year but it looks like I am going to be late. Looks to me like a average of 7 finds per section should cover this hunt. IF your keeping score of your lookouts, with our 30 lookouts we are over 188,000 feet elevation so far. Averaging just below 6300 feet per lookout. Logscaler.

That would be a MAJOR PAIN as well as making a large change to this cache. It also makes for a lot more work on the cache owners part, changes how people will attempt this cache, you would have to have a time limit, etc. From experience, I myself would have to vote for not making this suggested change. Logscaler.

As of 09-19-07 there are now 124 lookouts in Oregon with caches at them. Zone 1 - 33 Zone 2 - 29 Zone 3 - 17 Zone 4 - 9 Zone 5 - 7 Zone 6 - 7 Zone 7 - 10 Zone 8 - 12 Only zone 3 has a double that you have to decide on one or the other.

This size of font is kinda rude I know but I want to get someones attention. Just for grins and giggles, if whomever took my Travel Bug at the last event will bring it back and get it going again I would appreciate it. Kinda hard to miss as it is a TWO FOOT TALL WHITE STUFFED APE. Here is a link to its page. http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=116224 A lot of people discovered it there last year and I would like to see it out again. If nothing else, let me know you/who have/has it and I will PAY to get it back. Logscaler

122 lookouts and counting. Should be easy to find enough in any area for this cache hunt now. Yea, you might have to drive into the hills and take a walk but the trade offs are great.