Rie29

It may have been listed on Garmin's OpenCaching site. No way to tell now that they pulled the plug. That is a possibility! But with the sticker and amount of signatures in the log I'm pretty sure this one was linked to gc.com somehow. I believe that t4e and dfx were both members there on OX in 2010 if I recall correctly. Edit to add: Most listings there on OX were cross-listed from GC, so likely it was connected here. Do you know when this site closed? I could compare that with dates in the logbook.

Correct me if I am wrong, but multi-caches and mystery caches hidden in the early days of geocaching did not have to have their final waypoints listed. I remember at one point, our reviewer requested people update them on our local forums, but I don't think everyone did this. I still run into situations once in a while where I find an old multi-cache final that is closer to another cache than the 528 foot guideline. Is may be possible it was one of those caches..... Hmmm, that is another possible scenario. The only flaw I see in that is that the owner Lukin8R joined gc.com in 2008, and I think the 528 foot guideline was in place by then.

You signed the log of The Big Bang Theory on 10/26/12, but I didn't look close enough at the log of the unlisted to remember specific names or dates (except t4e and dfx). I want to go back and investigate this cache further, and I'll take pictures of the logbook, so when I go back I will let you know. However if a lackey can't find this cache online I don't know who can!

Update: The last who people signed the logbook on this unlisted cache (t4e and dfx) found it on April 7th, 2013. Another person in the logs of big bang theory (F33APilot) said they found a letterbox not listed on the site. I don't think this is a letterbox because there was no stamp, or stamp prints in the logbook. Went on t4e's found caches and nothing found on that date seems to match this one. It must be archived because it is not far enough from the final of Big Bang Theory for both to be in publication at the same time. Very confused about this one. I remember the other caches that day, going by the logs. I DNFd Big Bang theory and can't remember where I found the letterbox. At the time I do think there was a stamp. I don't often look for letterboxes so the do stand out to me. Sorry I can't solve this for you. Should have asked me years ago closer to the date. There was definitely no stamp in the cache I found, so now there are possibly 2 unlisted caches/letterboxes near The Big Bang Theory! Very odd.

Since it looks like it has a sticker that is associated with this site and not another site, I'm guessing that someone set the container out in anticipation of making the page and so on, but they changed their mind about it after telling a bunch of friends about the unpublished cache (perhaps a GC club); then they never picked up the container. I believe that would "cover all the facts": cache container, sticker, signatures, no listing that even a lackey can find. That reduces the mysteries only to why they changed their mind, and why they didn't bother with picking up the container. Though the latter may have something to do with the former. Perhaps someone who signed the log before the cache page was constructed made a remark about the container or placement or area or something. That may actually be the case, but I would need to go back and investigate the log further to see if that is the case (a GC Club would sign all on the same date, or on very close dates, not over a few years). I agree that the owner likely changed their mind on this cache, but I don't think it had anything to do with the container/location, since it was a regular tupperware in a stump, not much to to comment on. They probably just lost interest.

It may have been listed on Garmin's OpenCaching site. No way to tell now that they pulled the plug. That is a possibility! But with the sticker and amount of signatures in the log I'm pretty sure this one was linked to gc.com somehow.

I guess this one will remain a mystery!

I emailed Lukin8R, see what he says.

Update: The last who people signed the logbook on this unlisted cache (t4e and dfx) found it on April 7th, 2013. Another person in the logs of big bang theory (F33APilot) said they found a letterbox not listed on the site. I don't think this is a letterbox because there was no stamp, or stamp prints in the logbook. Went on t4e's found caches and nothing found on that date seems to match this one. It must be archived because it is not far enough from the final of Big Bang Theory for both to be in publication at the same time. Very confused about this one.

I was looking for the final of "The Big Bang Theory" and found another geocache before I found the final. This other cache had an official geocache sticker, so I don't think it's from another listing site. The name of the cache is "For The Love of Multi-Caching!" by the user Lukin8R, this was written on the front of the logbook. There were a fair amount of signatures, and the most recent dates were from 2012. I found the users profile, but he has not hidden a cache by this name or in this area. I went on Project GC Map Compare and none of the archived nearby caches seem to be this one. Just confirming- it is impossible to completely delete a cache listing so it doesn't appear on gc.com, right? (unless you are a lackey or staff). Does anyone want to help me do some detective work and see if this is anywhere on the internet? Thanks!

Yay! I recently hit both my 100th find and 1 year anniversary in the summer as well! Keep on going!

I have run into cachers looking for my own cache as I was about to check on it! That was a fun experience.

The answer is really, "it's up to you". As you can see by the 2898-post, 11-year-old Found It = Didn't Find It discussion, there are many views on how to log a cache under various circumstances. If you feel you found it, log a "Found it". If you feel like you really didn't find the cache, log a "Didn't find it". It really doesn't matter what anyone here thinks, because it's your conscience and ethics that will determine how you feel you should log it. Actually I should have worded that better. I guess I want to know what others would do in this situation, out of curiosity. Since I'm kind of new, I wanted insight on what more experienced cachers do in this situation. But you are right- it is everyone's personal decision what they consider a find. It is all in how you choose to play the game, because as that thread suggests everyone will never agree on the circumstances in which you can log a find.

Just to veer back to the original topic of this thread- whether or not I should log a find on this cache. So far 3 people say I should log as found, 1 person says log as DNF, and one person says either would be acceptable. Thanks for everyone's opinions on NM and NA logs and throwdowns, they have been very interesting to read. I am still open to opinions on whether or not I should log as found- I am still unsure to be honest, especially with the container recently being replaced by another cacher.

Yeah, the CO might not even know his cache was missing. But I think the important thing is that its now replaced, and people go back to can finding it normally-for now

And I'll just add that I wish the mentality of an NA in a case where a throwdown has been placed, the Reviewer would still require that the owner go out, confirm the cache is in good repair, and then log an OM log. Throwdowns do not equal cache maintenance as required by the guidelines. I agree that throwdowns don't equal cache maintenance , because the person who is replacing it won't know how it was originally hidden, and it won't remove the needs maintenance icon. However, I do think it is better than it not having been fixed at all. At least now people will be finding an actual cache, and not just claiming a find on a wet logbook. As for what you said about requiring the owner to check on it: if they didn't respond to the cache desperately needing maintenance to the point of someone else having to do it for them, they won't respond to a reviewer asking them to check on it.

This is my number one pet-peeve in geocaching. It's frustrating to see caches languishing in desperate need of maintenance while the owner is happily gallivanting about finding loads of caches. It's a very selfish attitude ("I just care about getting more smileys, so those who are trying to find my caches can go take a flying leap."). Someone needs to kick this CO in the rear by logging an NA on their unmaintained caches (of which there appear at-a-glance to be several). I agree with you! It is very selfish to not at least post a note explaining if they can't replace it, yet they go out and find many other caches. I will log NA on this cache if it is not repaired by the owner or a generous cacher at the end of the EX (the cache is on the grounds of a popular fair). Thanks for your input!

I'd be logging an NA - "Needs attention. The container has been wet, broken and now missing for over a year." As a finder I am realllllyyy getting tired of all the junk caches out there, and people who log finds on the junk, often with a "Awesome. Thanks." log. So I hunt for the cache expecting at least a decent cache only to find a moldy log in a baggie or broken container. It's so irritating. And happening more and more these days. So many people will not log an NM and just about nobody will log an NA. I agree. I don't like junk caches either. They frustrate me. I wish there was a log type between "Needs Maintenance" and "Needs Archived". Sometimes the cache doesn't need to be archived, (I feel that should be left for more serious issues like the cache on private property, danger, etc.) but it REALLY needs to be fixed (container obviously missing/broken for a while like this case etc.) I feel some owners (especially ones with lots of hides) often ignore a Needs Maintenance assuming it is a wet log or it isn't serious. However if they see a Needs Archived they will probably check to see what's wrong, assuming they're active on the site, which is a whole other issue. (The owner of this cache IS active, which means all of the Needs Maintenance on this cache have been ignored). Something in between that would alert the owner that the cache is in really bad shape, not just a slight crack in the container or wet logbook that is often left until a polite cacher fixes it, the owner notices, or it stays that way. (I'm not saying those shouldn't be fixed, they should). Anyways that was a bit off topic, but if that log type existed I would use it on this cache for sure. Thanks for your reply and helping me make sense of this situation!

I was confused when the person before me said they left a new log when the one I found was definitely old. The picture posted on 8/16/15 also is not the location where I found the logbook. This leads me to think I didn't even find where the cache should be, that maybe the person who left the new log didn't throw out the old log I found and now it is misleading people. Or the container could be missing. I really won't know unless the owner checks on it, which as you pointed out seems unlikely. Thanks for your input on this situation!

So I recently was looking for a cache and found only a logbook, no container. I was unsure if the logbook had been removed from the cache and I just couldn't find the container, so I logged DNF. A few other people have since visited the cache and have logged "found it", but they say they have only found the logbook like I did. I have now logged a needs maitenence as it seems like the container is missing. I'm just wondering if I should change my log to a found? I'm relatively new and have never encountered this situation before so I don't know what to do. I feel a bit dishonest logging a find, but is that common practice for a situation like this? I probably won't be able to get back to the cache for another year or two. Here is the cache code for reference: GC4MH8M. Thanks for your help!

Hey! I know this post is kind of old, but I just wanted to say I'm in a very similar situation as you. I have been geocaching for a year, cannot drive, and feel like I've almost done most of the ones I can do with my limitations of not being able to drive and being bad at puzzles, etc. My parents are not crazy about me going into the woods either (poison ivy, coyotes, giant hogweed, ticks, ETC!!) so I don't tend to do as much caching in the woods, or really anything over terrain 3. I wouldn't say I'm losing interest yet per se, but I am getting frustrated about not being able to drive to caches and having to beg my parents. Almost everything in biking distance is found. So, what I have been doing is just focusing on what I can do. I have been hiding more caches, (I worked for a while on making a puzzle cache, that was fun to make and see others solve.) I went to events, tried to get out to FTFs, just whatever I can get. Wherever I go somewhere, I see if there is a cache nearby. Anyways, I hope that helped and just know you aren't the only one with this problem!

Me too! Lol did not even think about that till now oh well

Thanks for all the help! Thats great that you still have control over your PMO cache if you become a basic member.

Just a quick question, if a PM owned a PMO cache, what happens to it when the owner goes back to a basic membership? Does the cache remain PMO? And if it does, can the owner view the cache page and edit it? You can't get locked out of your own cache page..right? I'm a relative newbie and have been wondering about this for a while.Thanks.

Oh good, not only did you get weirdness in the logs, there's also a language barrier. Is the item in fact a tracking number inscribed metal minted Geocoin in the shape of a cow head? If so, the logs make no sense. If it's instead a "Proxy" stand-in for the actual coin and not the coin, I could explain what happened. The frustrating thing with this and many Trackables is, there never was any photo posted ever, no description, and nothing helpful in the logs. Such as "This is a nice Proxy". The TO logged the Retrieval from a cache he never found, an armchair Retrieval. The log says "hier ist Schluss", which means "This is the end", saying I guess that the Trackable's travels are at an end, since now he's placing the coin into his personal coin collection so it will only be Discovered when he shows the coin. So if you're holding the coin, it is in fact not the end, since it's still traveling. But the logs now become limited to Discover or Note. The "hier ist Schluss" notwithstanding, I'd still agree with cerberus1, place whatever it is into a cache, and make whatever log you can. Maybe the log can say (depending on the circumstances) "This is a nice Proxy". Good luck! You were right! It is a Proxy, since it is plastic. I thought that was a bit odd when I picked it up, but I had never heard of a Trackable Proxy before. Thanks for explaining that! I have placed the trackable into a cache, hopefully everything will be ok with it!