Alphawolf
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Posts posted by Alphawolf
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I see the incorporation of traffic congestion, accident scene avoidance & construction detour alerts to be the next large scale "natural progression" to be for any GPSr that has road mapping on it, be it a car based model or even a handheld unit.
Not sure how a "small" handheld is going to do that easily, but perhaps some sort of bluetooth link to the car. That'd be GREAT to not only have my handheld GPSr tell me exactly how to drive to my destination, but also vary the travel path based on realtime congestion issues.
That is currently being done by realtime radio updates to GPS navigators (Those that support it). This is an easy task for even cell phone navigation. However...It is a monthly fee for it.
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The screen on my Blackberry is very small and really hard to see while talking to the office while driving.
I don't think they are too worried.
Man, I have a Garmin i3 with a little itty bitty screen...I hardly ever look at it, except to put in an address...After that, I just listen to her. My phone screen is as big (or bigger even) as my Garmin i3 is.
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The dedicated auto. (as in "car") units are by far the fastest growing segment of GPS navigation units. However, I see a dark cloud on the horizon for the big three. It is cell phone navigation services. I see a time soon, when people will be paying for turn-by-turn nav. services from their cell ph. carriers as the monthly service fee gets lower and lower and lower. Remember when text messaging was too expensive to have? Yeah...Like 2 years ago! Now everyone has it.
We will all be thinking..."Hey, I already have a cell phone, so why buy a dedicated car unit?" If the prices come down to say $5 or $6 a month, we will then be thinking, "I can pay for about 5-7 years of monthly service with the cost of a new Tom-Tom (Or whatever).
Same with integrated systems from the auto manufacturers. Like, why pay $1200 for a built in system, that my phone I already have will do?
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The way I use my GPS in the backcountry:
I preload waypoints in for my desired route. I have my GPS set to show degrees not cardinal points. I am always set to mag. north. I bring up the desired waypoint, read the bearing and distance and shut it back off. From turn on to turn off is about 30 seconds.
I then bring up my Silva compass, dial in the bearing and take off. I check the compass bearing occasionally, and turn the GPS on about once every half hour to "tweak" my route. This way, the batteries will last me a 5 day backpacking trip very easily. So, you can see why my odometer function is totally useless to me. My GPS is turned off saving batteries about 90% of the time.
The tracklog I showed in the picture is very unique, in that I actually left my GPS turned on just for the tracklog recording. I seldom do that. I t uses too much battery life in backpacking.
Thanks for the explanation and, for an extended bush whacking trip, that's the logical way to use a GPSr, i.e. one of several tools to assist with plotting and maintaining a course.
One thing I didn't mention, and I should have: I always, always have a printed 1:24,000 Topo of the area I will be in, along with a UTM grid card. I have mappping on my GPSR, but I would never in a million years rely on that as my only map.
My naviagational "triad" consists of the map & grid card, a magnetic compass, and my GPS. None are any more important than the other, nor are they any less important than the next.
It is way too easy to start getting complaicent about backcountry navigation when using GPS. Just remember, a GPS can fail, and it will probably be at the worst possible time. Always have a back-up for navigation. Remember, only a fool uses any single source of navigation.
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Oh brother...Here is just a little bit of a tracklog from a trip I took just last month. This trip is 32 miles of bushwhacking in Yellowstone National Park to a place that has had fewer human visitors than the summit of Mount Everest. There are no trails here...Not even a "sort of" trail. I've made this same trip twice now, both times with a GPS. In fact, this trip is very nearly impossible without a GPS. Our team had 3 of them along for redundancy. I know exactly what is and is not "needed" in serious back-country travel. Take a look at those contour lines and you can appreciate the terrain we were moving in. I didn't use the odometer obviously, as it didn't even work at my average speed of less than 1 mph. And I didn't miss it one bit either. I stand by my statement that it is much ado about nothing. If you really need an odometer to move around in the back country, you are relying too much on technology.
The odometer provides one more piece of information that is useful in making good decisions while doing exactly what -- it turns out -- you also do. If you were less set on trying to prove a meaningless point and would just stop and think about it, you'd realize that it would also have been a useful tool for your trip in Yellowstone. Not a critical, life-or-death thing... just one more piece of information that can be useful in making decisions. I can recall many times outdoors wishing that I had more information; I don't remember ever wishing I had less. Perhaps you just don't see the potential because 1) your odometer didn't work on this trip when you did keep a route, and 2) your usual method of turning the GPSr off most of the time negates the value of the odometer.
In any event, I stand by my original statement. You are in no position to tell me what my needs are and have no place claiming they are not valid simply because you don't share them. If the manufacturer of the device claims it does this thing, and I say I need it, then that in itself is a legitimate reason for complaint. It is not much ado about nothing, it is a little ado about something.
Normally, I wouldn't waste my time arguing with you about this, as I really don't care what you think of how I use my GPSr or my dependence on technology. (Freeday makes a good point on that!) But since there seem to be several of you trying to shut the rest of us up, it actually becomes a problem that requires a response.
The only way that Garmin will devote resources to fixing this bug is if they feel that it is causing a problem with their user community. If everyone listens to you, and shuts up about it, then they will assume we're all content and we'll never get it fixed. So we're not going to do that. On the other hand, if we are successful in getting Garmin to fix this bug, then it costs you exactly nothing and you are no better or worse off than you are now. As they say in this part of the country, you have no dog in this fight. So how about giving us a break and, instead of complaining that we're trying to get a bug fixed, either support us (the civil response) or at least stop trying to convince people that it doesn't matter. Individuals can decide that for themselves.
Ummmm...Did you even read the part of my posting where I said " I'm glad Garmin is working on it, I want it to work too."?
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Yup...We take 3 GPS receivers, and use 2 of them. Like I said, I doubt you could make the trip reliably without one. Many, many parties have had to turn back after failing to find the only route in here.
But...The odometer on the GPS? It is just about as important to me on a trip like this as the games in the menu are...
As you have described your trip - I noted that you have done it twice and both times using GPS for navigation - I can understand why you might not have needed the odometer. But, it sounds as though you had pre-programmed the route into your GPSr. Thus, had you needed to know how far you had traveled or how far you had to go to the next intermediate destination, you could easily have made that determination from your position, relative to your route.
The way I use my GPS in the backcountry:
I preload waypoints in for my desired route. I have my GPS set to show degrees not cardinal points. I am always set to mag. north. I bring up the desired waypoint, read the bearing and distance and shut it back off. From turn on to turn off is about 30 seconds.
I then bring up my Silva compass, dial in the bearing and take off. I check the compass bearing occasionally, and turn the GPS on about once every half hour to "tweak" my route. This way, the batteries will last me a 5 day backpacking trip very easily. So, you can see why my odometer function is totally useless to me. My GPS is turned off saving batteries about 90% of the time.
The tracklog I showed in the picture is very unique, in that I actually left my GPS turned on just for the tracklog recording. I seldom do that. I t uses too much battery life in backpacking.
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The whole deal of the inaccurate odometer was really much ado about nothing. O.K...The trip odometer read short...Big deal! (It is mostly better now) The tracklog still records fine and it will tell you how far you have travelled.
It was just something people liked to focus on. I'm glad Garmin is working on it, I want it to work too. But I didn't lie awake at night wringing my hands and grinding my teeth together worrying about it either.
No, it's not much ado about nothing... it's only nothing to you because you don't use it. For others, such as those who head off-trail, it can be extremely helpful to know how far you've traveled in a given length of time. If you're bushwhacking through brush and trying to make a decision about whether you can make it to a particular point by sundown (for example), knowing how quickly you're covering ground is valuable. Once I'm home to upload tracklogs, I'm past needing to know how far I've come. By then, it's trivial but while I'm on the trail it's important. Perhaps you only do caches that are close to the road, but lots of us actually combine caching with significant hiking and for us the trip odometer matters. Honestly, I'm content that Garmin is working on this and will probably fix it, but I'm getting really tired of people who have no need of the odometer proclaiming that the concerns of those of us who do are not legitimate.
By the way, our destination was a place called "Fairyland Basin". You can read all about it with a Google search.
On the original barometer question, while I haven't done any tests or measurements, my subjective impression is that the barometer on the Vista HCx is working pretty much the same as the one on my Vista C did. I admit, though, that I focus more on how accurate it is when I cross a known elevation after calibrating it at the beginning of the day than on how frequently it updates. I take it that it seems less frequent to gratefulhike. On my next hike, I'll carry both and compare them. I agree in principle that I'd rather have the feature work well at the old battery life than have longer battery life but poor information to work with while hiking.
Oh brother...Here is just a little bit of a tracklog from a trip I took just last month. This trip is 32 miles of bushwhacking in Yellowstone National Park to a place that has had fewer human visitors than the summit of Mount Everest. There are no trails here...Not even a "sort of" trail. I've made this same trip twice now, both times with a GPS. In fact, this trip is very nearly impossible without a GPS. Our team had 3 of them along for redundancy. I know exactly what is and is not "needed" in serious back-country travel. Take a look at those contour lines and you can appreciate the terrain we were moving in. I didn't use the odometer obviously, as it didn't even work at my average speed of less than 1 mph. And I didn't miss it one bit either. I stand by my statement that it is much ado about nothing. If you really need an odometer to move around in the back country, you are relying too much on technology.
He said: ...but I'm getting really tired of people who have no need of the odometer proclaiming that the concerns of those of us who do are not legitimate.
>>If you really need an odometer to move around in the back country, you are relying too much on technology.
But you take 3 of them
Yup...We take 3 GPS receivers, and use 2 of them. Like I said, I doubt you could make the trip reliably without one. Many, many parties have had to turn back after failing to find the only route in here.
But...The odometer on the GPS? It is just about as important to me on a trip like this as the games in the menu are...
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I have a Vista HCx and I never even turn the compass on. I use my preferred compass...An old fashion, non-electronic Silva. It doesn't drain batteries and never, ever requires "calibration".
I imagine if you keep the electronic versions calibrated, they are just as accurate. But, no where near as reliable.
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The whole deal of the inaccurate odometer was really much ado about nothing. O.K...The trip odometer read short...Big deal! (It is mostly better now) The tracklog still records fine and it will tell you how far you have travelled.
It was just something people liked to focus on. I'm glad Garmin is working on it, I want it to work too. But I didn't lie awake at night wringing my hands and grinding my teeth together worrying about it either.
No, it's not much ado about nothing... it's only nothing to you because you don't use it. For others, such as those who head off-trail, it can be extremely helpful to know how far you've traveled in a given length of time. If you're bushwhacking through brush and trying to make a decision about whether you can make it to a particular point by sundown (for example), knowing how quickly you're covering ground is valuable. Once I'm home to upload tracklogs, I'm past needing to know how far I've come. By then, it's trivial but while I'm on the trail it's important. Perhaps you only do caches that are close to the road, but lots of us actually combine caching with significant hiking and for us the trip odometer matters. Honestly, I'm content that Garmin is working on this and will probably fix it, but I'm getting really tired of people who have no need of the odometer proclaiming that the concerns of those of us who do are not legitimate.
By the way, our destination was a place called "Fairyland Basin". You can read all about it with a Google search.
On the original barometer question, while I haven't done any tests or measurements, my subjective impression is that the barometer on the Vista HCx is working pretty much the same as the one on my Vista C did. I admit, though, that I focus more on how accurate it is when I cross a known elevation after calibrating it at the beginning of the day than on how frequently it updates. I take it that it seems less frequent to gratefulhike. On my next hike, I'll carry both and compare them. I agree in principle that I'd rather have the feature work well at the old battery life than have longer battery life but poor information to work with while hiking.
Oh brother...Here is just a little bit of a tracklog from a trip I took just last month. This trip is 32 miles of bushwhacking in Yellowstone National Park to a place that has had fewer human visitors than the summit of Mount Everest. There are no trails here...Not even a "sort of" trail. I've made this same trip twice now, both times with a GPS. In fact, this trip is very nearly impossible without a GPS. Our team had 3 of them along for redundancy. I know exactly what is and is not "needed" in serious back-country travel. Take a look at those contour lines and you can appreciate the terrain we were moving in. I didn't use the odometer obviously, as it didn't even work at my average speed of less than 1 mph. And I didn't miss it one bit either. I stand by my statement that it is much ado about nothing. If you really need an odometer to move around in the back country, you are relying too much on technology.
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The whole deal of the inaccurate odometer was really much ado about nothing. O.K...The trip odometer read short...Big deal! (It is mostly better now) The tracklog still records fine and it will tell you how far you have travelled.
It was just something people liked to focus on. I'm glad Garmin is working on it, I want it to work too. But I didn't lie awake at night wringing my hands and grinding my teeth together worrying about it either.
The altimeter function seems just fine to me...Though I seldom (if ever) use it. I am at the altitude where I am, so I don't need to see it in numbers. In reality, the barometric altimeter is pretty much useless to me. The GPS altimeter does just fine for my purposes. As for watching the pressure rise or fall over any time period...That is the weatherman's job.
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The Garmin 1:24,000 are just for National Parks and National Recreation Areas. They are awesome if you have a need. If you have an autorouting GPS, they will do auto-routing on the trails too. I use them extensively for backpacking in Yellowstone NP with my Vist HCx.
The US Topo is 1:100,000 scale, or about 1/4 the resolution of the 1:24,000. Still very useable though.
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You cannot avoid mountain passes in many areas unless you a)don't travel, or
stay out of the mountains. I checked your profile, but no clues on where you live or cache.General tips. from one who travels just a bit.. 1) know the weather forecast in advance. Time your trip accordingly. 2) most commonly, the major highways will be the first to be cleared, and receive the most effort during. Highway depts. try to use their resources to help the most people in the shortest amount of time. 3) carry snacks, some blankets, water, and a brightly colored tarp at least 10 feet square. 4) keep fuel or gas tank over half full anytime you are going away from populated areas.
First, the tarp. Unfold it and paint "HELP" in contrasting color. After drying, refold and store. In the event you get stranded, put it out. Tie to nearby fence, anchor with rocks, bungie it over car if you want. It needs to be easily spotted. Ration your water and snacks. Bundle up to keep warm, ration your gasoline by running engine only enough to make temperature tolerable. Be wary of trapped fumes. Stay with your vehicle near your tarp, you are easier to see from the air that way. If you must leave, take down your tarp and take it with you to use as shelter if needed, or to quickly unroll if you hear engines overhead.
I don't see how the GPS/software combination would define a "mountain pass". If it is snowing and icy, then a 2,000 foot "pass" is just as slick as one at 10,000 ft.
I don't even count them as mountains unless they are at least 8,000 ft. But, I have been scared out of my wits driving roads in Washington State that were only 3,000 ft. and snowy.
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I have a Vista HCx with a tracklog that I have saved. My buddy wants the tracklog so he can look at it on Google Earth. He doesn't have a Garmin or MapSource software. Is there any format I can e-mail it to him? Any programs that would allow him to use it for viewing in Google Earth?
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Here's mine...Maybe Version 4 is different?
I just plugged my Vista HCx into my NG Topo (V 4.0) to see if it would work. No probelms. I downloaded waypoints and tracklogs from the receiver to the software, and all went as expected.
Can you tell me if you can see anything different?
I am on ver. 3.43
When I click test connection the software comes up empty.
Are you choosing "Handhelds" - "export to gps or or text" ?
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I just plugged my Vista HCx into my NG Topo (V 4.0) to see if it would work. No probelms. I downloaded waypoints and tracklogs from the receiver to the software, and all went as expected.
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exactly and if you are going slower then that rate it doesn't track. I have tested.
Yes it does...I just did a 35 mile backpacking trip in Yellowstone. If left on, the unit recorded the tracks very, very well. However, the odometer recorded just a fraction of our actual mileage.
You guys are just debating semantics. Smac99, Alphawolf just means that the tracks are recorded properly internally so when you get home you can upload them into your computer and use them. He's agreeing that the odometer reading (what you mean by 'tracks') doesn't show the correct distance.
So you can't tell, while hiking, how far you've hiked. But when you get home, you can move the tracks to your computer and find out then. Real useful, eh? In fact, this is what makes it so absurd that Garmin hasn't done anything about it. If the tracks are being laid down correctly in the track log, then clearly the device 'knows' that it's moving. So if it knows that it's moving, it should be a simple adjustment to the firmware to pass that information along correctly to the trip computer screen.
One last thing. The error only occurs in track by distance mode. It works correctly if you use track by time so that's a workaround until they get it fixed.
I am incorrect?!?! I don't think so... Here is a picture after uploading a tracklog to MapSource. My average speed for this entire tracklog was less than 1-mph (I was stepping over an incredible amount of deadfall timber). You can see, the tracklog recorded just fine. It is set to default "Auto".
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Does that mean that it will not track at all if you move more slowly? In other words, it will not drop track points?
No. This is an issue with the trip computer. It does not affect tracking.
it effects tracking if you have it set to track by distance. it doesn't track if it doesn't think you moved.
It will still track. The trip computer is triggered by the rate of movement. People are complaining that this threshold rate is too high for pedestrian use.
exactly and if you are going slower then that rate it doesn't track. I have tested.
Yes it does...I just did a 35 mile backpacking trip in Yellowstone. If left on, the unit recorded the tracks very, very well. However, the odometer recorded just a fraction of our actual mileage.
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I have saved a tracklog from my GPSR to my computer, via MapSource. The tracklog is an out and back trip with a common starting point and common halfway point. I need to know if there is a way to now delete half of the log? I don't want to show both directions, only the "coming back" part of it.
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Last week, I did a 35 mile backpacking trip in Yellowstone National Park. About half of it was "no trail" bushwhacking. Very slow going, with incessant stepping over dead fall logs. I will absolutely confrim what you just said about the trip odometer being worthless for hiking. It just doesn't register at slow speeds.
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@ Alphawolf
Right then, <rolls up sleeves>...
First of all I'd like to point out that you have somewhat shot yourself in the foot by admitting you got the hcx because of it's better resale value, because that was going to be on my list of reasons to get it.
Regarding the 5% battery drain, compared to my old b/w Vista which only would give me about 10 hours use with slight use of the compass, the new Vista HCx gives me the full 25 hours with the compass on full time. So I can believe the low drain
The only "advantage" you have said one gets from not using a fg compass is that the batteries might last a tiny bit longer but who in their right mind would go out somewhere where they really need their gps and take the battery level right down to the wire?
And you called the compass "useless" but it isn't useless or else you wouldn't use a compass at all, would you not agree?
No, I didn't shoot myself in the foot. I freely admit, this is the only reason that makes any sense to me at all for buying one...Resale value. So I did it.
It is why I buy ceartain cars over others too. They sell quicker when it's time to sell them.
The internal compass is "useless" in a "duplicity" sense. I always, always have a good compass with me anyway, so why would one want to use the internal compass and drain batteries? So, if one isn't going to use it, then why buy it?
Back to resale value only...
Bottom line for me: There is not one bit of functionality advantage to me having an internal compass vs. my trusty magnetic Silva. I can accomplish the same exact navigation, and it's easier. I don't worry about calibrating and holding exactly level. And, there are definite disadvantages with the internal: Battery life decrease, by whatever percent you choose to accept, not to mention the additional purchase price.
Now...I'm off to a 32 mile backpacking trip in Yellowstone with my GPS, map and Silva magnetic compass!
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If you weren't into hi tech gadgets you wouldn't bother with a gps would you. The very fact that you read this post is enough to tell you that you do need a flux gate compass.
It's only $30 more. Chickenfeed plus you get a FREE that's right, free Barometric Altimeter with your Flux Gate compass.
You *will* be pleased to use your gps when you aren't moving or even just to orient your paper map.
Sure you could *buy* a good quality compass instead but that would cost you $30 anyway. Plus no barometric altimeter. Not only that but try getting your Silva compass to point to True North. Yes that's right, absolutely amazing, a compass that points directly North (whatever will they think of next) not to some ever changing magnetic north which sometime in the future will be pointing south, your Silva compass won't be much use then will it?. Your map grid is pointing North, you know it makes sense. Unless you like the challenge of working out the yearly magnetic north variations and applying the calculations.
PLUS, it's a fluxgate compass. Do you want to go through your whole life never having owned one? When the conversation is drying up imagine the look of surprise when you casually say at the dinner table, "it has a _flux_gate_compass" and when your amazed guests ask, "what's that" you will rattle off Wikipedia's explanation as if you actually understand it.
But wait, you say you *enjoy* doing doing the math? No worries you can set it to read magnetic north if you really want to. Yes with a fluxgate compass you can be a cutting edge luddite.
And the new Vista HCx uses very little extra power unlike the older models, in fact I haven't noticed any extra drain at all. It has been reported by those sorts of people who like to measure these things that the extra drain is about 5%.
But, on the other hand:
These compasses have a 5 degree margin of accuracy. To buy any Silva or Brunton or any decent compass that has 5 degree accuracy, it will only cost you about $10 or $12...Not $30
True north? I never, ever use it. My GPS is set to read mag. north and give the bearing in degrees. I simply turn off the GPS (thereby saving batteries) dial in the degrees on the magnetic compass I always carry, and happily head off in the correct direction, using a compass that doesn't absolutely suck batteries dry. I see no reason to use the fluxgate compass to suck batteries dry prematurely, when I have a $10 compass with me that is even more accurate (You don't have to worry about holding it so level) and dependable. And I don't buy off on the "5%" drain factor.
Just so you know...I have a Vista HCx (No...I don't use the compass a all. Or the altimeter...Equally useless unless you just like to play with things and impress people) Why did I buy it then? Simply for resale demand when I upgrade (which I seem to do about every 2 years). It appeals to people that think it offers some sort of advantage, or accuracy or something.
Garmin would really hate me...I have been teaching GPS nav. classes for about 6 years now (Sportsman's Warehouse), and I really discourage people from buying the compass/altimeter models. If they have already bought them, I encourage them to keep them turned off, and use a mag. compass. Too many people think that the internal compass is all they need when they take off into the mountains or wherever. No back up. Then, the batteries die, and no more compass. When I explain the advantages of not buying one, or not using it if they have it already, it makes sense to them.
Incidentally, I leave for Yellowstone National Park on Friday for a 32 mile backpacking trip, more than half of which is off-trail bushwhacking. I will carry my Vista HCx loaded with Garmin's 1:24,000 topos of YNP, a magnetic compass with 2 degree scale, a grid card and a map I printed on NG's Adventure paper using their topo software. That is my back country navigational triad: Map, compass, GPS. Always and forever.
Alphawolf out.
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SiliconFiend said:
"If you are trail hiking and "putting all your eggs in one basket" navigationaly speaking, by having your only maps in your GPS (and maybe your only compass too?), you are playing navigational "Russian Roulette". There is no freaking way I am entering the backcountry without my GPS AND a good paper map AND a grid card AND a good compass."
Ok, I'l bite.
What is a "grid card"?
A grid card is simply a clear acetate card with a scaled grid to assist in figuring UTM coordinates from a topo map. You must use the card that is scaled to the scale of the topo map you are using. Some cards are multi-scaled for use with different scale maps. Here is a link to just one such card (not the one I use):
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If you are trail hiking and "putting all your eggs in one basket" navigationaly speaking, by having your only maps in your GPS (and maybe your only compass too?), you are playing navigational "Russian Roulette". There is no freaking way I am entering the backcountry without my GPS AND a good paper map AND a grid card AND a good compass.
So...That begs the question: Why would someone want to study a tiny little screen of a map on a GPS if you already have a paper 1:24,000 quad. and a grid card with you (which you dang sure should have)? That is why I use a Garmin Foretrex 101...The smallest, lightest available. Not to mention the extra hundred bucks to buy those maps. On screen mapping for handheld hiking units is way, way, overrated and frustrating to use. I get really, really tired of having to play with the click stick to pan the map around to see beyond the screen (Yes...I have used units with maps extensively in the backcountry.) Give me a paper map any day of the week. I open it up, and instantly can see the whole "big picture".
Incidently, I print my own 1:24,000 topo maps from NG, using Adventure Paper. This stuff rocks!
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Got mine from offroute.com $234.95 plus 9.99 shipping
http://www.offroute.com/product/view_produ...amp;CatID=14347
How quickly did you get it after ordering it?
stay out of the mountains. I checked your profile, but no clues on where you live or cache.
My GPS got stolen
in GPS technology and devices
Posted
Sorry, for the theft. The only thing Garmin might do is watch for that serial # if it ever comes into their service center.
I never, ever leave anything of value in my car. Period. This is why.